zoom44

i edited my post= ford owns 33.89 now as FLP canada is 100% owned by ford

ASH8

Thanks ZOOM!!
I am getting yelled at to get off, I have to go....!!

I stand corrected ZOOM, yep Ford has the financial controlling interest in Mazda.....

Bascho, There was obviously no need for Ford to take 51%, or spend more $$$'s...

Thanks again Zoom...your the man!

Red Devil

I've just always referred naysayers regarding Fords control of Mazda to Ford's Annual Report. Mazda is clearly listed in the pages in black and white for all to see with top Ford executives commenting on the direction of the company. When the RX-8 first came to market the Ford annual report had near a full page dedicated to bragging about the development of the car.

Japan8

HEY! I had posted stuff on this a couple weeks ago... including info on Japanese corporate law.

Japan8

Ford bought their stake in Mazda in the 70's... when all the **** was hitting the fan. Whether this was through Ford of Australia or straight from Ford Motor Corp... I don't know. Ford didn't raise their stake to the present almost 34% until the 90's. That was when the first non-Japanese president and CEO of Mazda, Mark Fields (http://media.ford.com/article_displa...rticle_id=3810), was appointed by Ford. He was installed not as a show of power, but because Mazda was in the sewer. This is just after the FD was pulled from the US, Amanti failed, the Millenia failed, and the Japanese economy was still tanking (outside of IT). He was installed for the same reason Carlos Ghosn took over as CEO of Nissan... to clean house and get the company back to making money.

Sorry, Japanese corporate law ISN'T the same as Australia or even the US. Actually it's rather screwed up, but that's par for course. Anyway, as I had posted some weeks ago... LEGALLY, ownership of 1/3 or more of the shares gives the holder management decision power and veto power at board meetings. So it doesn't matter if anyone else holds a ton of shares or not... they have to work together with Ford to get what they want. But that point is moot, because as both Zoom44 and I (in the past) have posted, Ford IS the largest shareholder inaddtion to owning more than 1/3 of Mazda's shares.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

My simple question turned into a big big discussion :-O

They should put more resource into Rotary devlopement. 8 was the first car I personally "own". Im paying it outa my own savings. @ 25 years old I think its ok to have my own car.

I didnt know what Rotary was really like, I heard good things about the 7, so I got the 8.

At first I was "quite disppoainted" with its performance. but the more I drive it, the more I like it.

Now my question is, what would've happened. if Ford gave Mazda's more "resources" in the first place for Rotary Development ? Its gonna be alot better I think.

zoom44

i actually was going to go looking for your previous post on the subject Japan but i found the stock info first.

brillo

I think you'd be surprised how much of a shoe string budget Mazda got for the renesis engine development, and they still hit a home run. Then they went and f'd it up by richening up the afr which has let to the issues with poor mileage, power loss, flooding. If you look at how much stuff was held over from the 13B, you can see what they had to work with.

It looks like we will finally be getting some serious rotary advancements in the near future such as direct injection, all aluminum construction and hybrid technology.

Japan8

's ok. Thought it was odd you didn't just post a link to that thread instead of searching. I c now.

Spin9k

The above is too blatant and insult to all involved in that paragraph to let it pass bascho. You seem well intentioned so benefit of the doubt to you.... Maybe you didn't intend it the way it sounds, but.... think what you're saying....really.

I'm not sure where you get these stereotyped ideas from... but talk with ignorant inferences like that has recently been coming from noteables like the Mayor or New Orleans, Pat Robinson, and Trent Lot, to name only a few who seem destined to put their foot in their mouths regularly.

To say only immigrants to this country historically buy/bought small cars... and that's how the 'foreign' automakers got started.... I mean really.... that is a head shaker. Where have you grown up? It's simply insulting and that's the nicest word that comes to mind.

Let me tell you a story and hopefully this will educate you, if even only a bit...

My relatives likey were on the Mayflower, at least to hear them talk. I'm white as a sheet, as American as apple pie, at least according to your definitions. As I mentioned somewhere in a thread, my first car out of HS was a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500, only a few years old at that time. What a fun piece of crap that was. A 289 V8 auto that had a glasspack muffler, chrome aircleaner, 4 barrel carb and a jacked up rear end... it looked pretty good. However it went like a slow fart lol, so I always lost streetlight challenges that came my way regularly because of the muffler sound. I spent more keeping it running for my 1 yr of ownership than I paid for it, and it was my everlasting lesson on FORDs (even though I had been brought up to love them by my well-intention, but sadly misinformed (conerning quality cars) father.

Sold it and bought a brand spanking new 1972 Toyota Mark II. One of the best cars I've owned. After 109K, sold that and bought the 1st Honda Accord brough to the US in 1976...it was about Mini size, then after that several more Honda Accords, a Mitsu, a Civic, and now the RX-8.

Moral of the story....and hopefully a lesson in something for you...I don't think there is anything at all unusual about my buying habits, Millions of people who are sensible, reasonable people from where ever by small cars in America. It has absolutely nothing to do with your wrong-headed idea that immigrants like small cars because the are 'used to them in their own countries' or whatever you were trying to say.

If you are basing your logic in this thread on ideas as wrong headed as these are, your arguments here are virtually baseless. I'm not flaming you.... I'm telling you you need to get out of the cabbage patch you've been getting your ideas from about people and cars and 'Americans' and discover the real world. maybe travel a bit... it's a big country. I not trying to insult you, just wake you up. Perhaps that's why so many have difficulty with many of your thoughts.

bascho

Spin.....I think you definitely misinterpreted what I meant. I am not saying that the reason the Asian brands had great success is do to immigrants only. I was merely saying the most immigrants have different values and expectations for automobiles than the your typical 5th or 6th gen American. Anyone that has immigrated from a nation where 80% of the automotive selection is 'small car' has a entirely different opinion of small cars then most Americans. In the two states that I have lived in as an adult, Minnesota and Michigan, I can say pretty confidently that the Asian and Indian people that I knew/know drive Asian cars. Not all.....but a majority in my experience. It's not because they hate Ford, GM and DCX....it's cause they are familiar with the Asian brands and smaller cars. Of course there are hundreds of thousands of 4th,5th,6th gen Americans that love small cars......but there are tens of millions of them that have no use for them. 'Small car' is really subjective and I hate using that term. The Accord is not a small car, the Camry is not a small car and these are Toyota's and Honda's biggest sellers in the US. Take a look at the line-up for Honda and Toyota in US markets.....4 models in the 'under 'C' size segment' and like 25 models in the 'over 'C' size segment' (including trucks). My main point is that true 'small cars' do not sell well in the US because 3rd,4th,etc gen Americans don't want them.

I never intended to insult anyone with my statement. I am not sure what experience others have had in other states.....but the things I just stated about immigrants to America with regards to automotive preference is the experience that I've had.

Again, I meant no disrespect to anyone......that is not the type of person that I am.

ASH8

Mazda over the decades have already spent squillions developing the rotary to where is its today,as many know,GM,Mercedes,Toyota,NSU/Audi,Suzuki and others all had licences to manufacture and build the Wankel, ALL gave up because it was too hard, the Rotary engine has not changed that much since Ford's investment in the mid 70s. The RENISIS side exhaust porting is the major change since the original 13B of 73/74.
IMO the way oil prices are heading I don't think we will see little if any change to what we have now, everyones post's here on a "new" rotary are generally from hearsay or media gossip. There is talk of a 15B or a 3 rotor, ALL will use more fuel, complying with emissions is another task to overcome. There is also Direct Ingection...if you want do a search, Rotary God has posted some very good info on this very subject.
As I said I don't think you will see any major structural change in the Rotary as Its all been done before.

The beauty of the Rotary...as you say the" more you drive it the more you like it", I think you have now been infected by the "Wankel Virus", watch out its very difficult to medicate!

ASH8

Having said that we may see in a world car, the hydrogen powered rotary like the RX-8 now on sale/lease in Japan, but, thats a fuel matter, internal structure of the hydrogen rotary is still very closely aligned to the existing engine....just a lot more "ADD" ons and fuel mixers,valves, etc.

Then there is the Hybrid Mazda 5 Rotary....

IMO Hydrogen still has a very long way to go before its accepted by the masses.