Mazda CEO officially rules out RX rebirth- again
11-20-2013, 12:24 PM
#151
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You mean a dyson vacuum? The UEL headers, high-flow DP and exhaust on my flat four sound better than most anything else out there to me. Including a fair number of v-8's.
11-20-2013, 12:27 PM
#152
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Sound preference is subjective. I didn't get more than a mile from the dealership before I knew I would not be able to live with the sound coming from the BRZ's engine that I was driving. Even full tilt on a track, the flat 4 is an ugly annoying sound to my ears. The flat 6 is a very different story. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I liked it quite a bit.
11-20-2013, 12:56 PM
#153
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BRZ has ELH makes all the difference IMO
Music, just music, but I agree it's all subjective. I loved my RX8 but if it wasn't because of the engine.
Music, just music, but I agree it's all subjective. I loved my RX8 but if it wasn't because of the engine.
Last edited by RIWWP; 11-20-2013 at 01:45 PM. Reason: videos removed, pushing the topic off track
11-20-2013, 01:44 PM
#154
Completely subjective... I can't stand the sound of fart can equipped cars. Possibly the most annoying car invention ever.
I do love the sound of my rotary, I also like the sound of the flat 4 but the sound of the new C7 in sport mode is perfection IMO.
I do love the sound of my rotary, I also like the sound of the flat 4 but the sound of the new C7 in sport mode is perfection IMO.
11-20-2013, 02:03 PM
#155
Rockie Mountain Newbie
While it's sad that the rotary engine might not see the light of day for many more years to come, I think Mazda should bring back the 8, just with their S-A 2.5 engine, with the power cranked up much higher than it currently is.
Think about it:
Everyone loves how the RX-8 drives and handles.
They love it's interior room, and seating arrangement.
The primary problems that owners experienced with their RX-8's were directly related to the rotary engine.
So, let's have Mazda bring back the RX-8 on the ND platform, put the SkyActiv 2.5 engine in it, crank the hp up to 250, give it about 200 ft-lbs of torque, and give the chassis the full SkyActiv treatment so that it's lighter, stronger, and fantastic looking. All of this would mean that it would be a much cleaner and greener car, that gets incredibly better gas mileage.
They should simply call it the Mazda 8.
Sales plummeted on the RX-8 after the first couple of years because of the engine troubles, and then they never recovered. If you released the 8 with their SA engine, and it has the same reliability that all the current SA engines have had so far, and you will have that Mazda Halo car that sells well, doesn't cost a small fortune, and drives fantastically.
I'd buy one.
Anyone else?
BC.
Think about it:
Everyone loves how the RX-8 drives and handles.
They love it's interior room, and seating arrangement.
The primary problems that owners experienced with their RX-8's were directly related to the rotary engine.
So, let's have Mazda bring back the RX-8 on the ND platform, put the SkyActiv 2.5 engine in it, crank the hp up to 250, give it about 200 ft-lbs of torque, and give the chassis the full SkyActiv treatment so that it's lighter, stronger, and fantastic looking. All of this would mean that it would be a much cleaner and greener car, that gets incredibly better gas mileage.
They should simply call it the Mazda 8.
Sales plummeted on the RX-8 after the first couple of years because of the engine troubles, and then they never recovered. If you released the 8 with their SA engine, and it has the same reliability that all the current SA engines have had so far, and you will have that Mazda Halo car that sells well, doesn't cost a small fortune, and drives fantastically.
I'd buy one.
Anyone else?
BC.
11-20-2013, 02:06 PM
#156
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BC,
Aside from the people that would be screaming "travesty" for an "RX" model to not have a rotary in it, and aside from the debate being about the rotary engine itself, not a model...
The practical aspect of that suggestion is ignoring how much of the RX-8 was designed around the engine placement, and you can't put the SA engine in the same spot as the Renesis. There would be considerable re-engineering involved on Mazda's side, and it would be easier to mess up the chassis than it would be to get it right.
Aside from the people that would be screaming "travesty" for an "RX" model to not have a rotary in it, and aside from the debate being about the rotary engine itself, not a model...
The practical aspect of that suggestion is ignoring how much of the RX-8 was designed around the engine placement, and you can't put the SA engine in the same spot as the Renesis. There would be considerable re-engineering involved on Mazda's side, and it would be easier to mess up the chassis than it would be to get it right.
11-20-2013, 08:50 PM
#157
Rockie Mountain Newbie
I guess you missed the part where I said it should share the platform of the upcoming ND MX-5, which would completely allow it to utilize the SkyActiv engine bay.
So, now that we've gotten past the whole lack of a rotary engine thing, how about we just convince Mazda to make us a top tier sports car, and put a great engine into it, which will allow them to have a profitable car, that doesn't bankrupt them with warranty replacements, so that, someday, they build us a Furai replacement.
I still feel the loss of the Furai is a greater travesty than the loss of the rotary engine as the sole powerplant for an automobile.
Its an interesting engine, but it's never been great.
When you look at other sports cars, you never think to yourself that it's a great car, but it would be that much better if it had a rotary engine in it instead of whatever is actually in there.
Yet we sit here, and constantly listen to newbs and trolls say how much they would rather have {insert engine model here} into their RX-8, in order to make it so much better than it is.
There are some vehicles that might be more interesting with a rotary engine in it (early Porsche Boxster, for example), because it actually makes more hp than the stock engine it came with, and the vehicle design would benefit from the weight loss in the handling department, but only complete nutjobs like me would think up that combination, and think it's a good idea.
So, how about we just get Mazda building great vehicles that we would own, that would make them even more profits, so that, one day, they can tempt us when they take the rotary engine out of mothballs, and put it into something special, which most people who currently own an early RX-8 will never be able to afford.
The RX-8's biggest flaw was that it was easily afforded by the ordinary person, giving that fragile engine to the idiot masses who have no interest in properly maintaining a vehicle.
Bad idea. Hopefully Mazda has learned its lesson on that one.
BC.
So, now that we've gotten past the whole lack of a rotary engine thing, how about we just convince Mazda to make us a top tier sports car, and put a great engine into it, which will allow them to have a profitable car, that doesn't bankrupt them with warranty replacements, so that, someday, they build us a Furai replacement.
I still feel the loss of the Furai is a greater travesty than the loss of the rotary engine as the sole powerplant for an automobile.
Its an interesting engine, but it's never been great.
When you look at other sports cars, you never think to yourself that it's a great car, but it would be that much better if it had a rotary engine in it instead of whatever is actually in there.
Yet we sit here, and constantly listen to newbs and trolls say how much they would rather have {insert engine model here} into their RX-8, in order to make it so much better than it is.
There are some vehicles that might be more interesting with a rotary engine in it (early Porsche Boxster, for example), because it actually makes more hp than the stock engine it came with, and the vehicle design would benefit from the weight loss in the handling department, but only complete nutjobs like me would think up that combination, and think it's a good idea.
So, how about we just get Mazda building great vehicles that we would own, that would make them even more profits, so that, one day, they can tempt us when they take the rotary engine out of mothballs, and put it into something special, which most people who currently own an early RX-8 will never be able to afford.
The RX-8's biggest flaw was that it was easily afforded by the ordinary person, giving that fragile engine to the idiot masses who have no interest in properly maintaining a vehicle.
Bad idea. Hopefully Mazda has learned its lesson on that one.
BC.
11-21-2013, 10:59 AM
#160
11-21-2013, 11:32 AM
#161
BREAKING NEWS:
(sorry --italian)
here it is a gallery (link)..scroll with arrows
Mazda Gli sviluppi a breve, medio e lungo periodo - Gallery - Quattroruote
presented @ Tokyo a Mazda Demio (a.k.a Mazda2 ) with a single rotor of 330cc used as range extender GASOLINE..not hydrogen....
330cc 22 kw of power..everything related to ICE engine is placed in the back of the car ,including a 9 liter tank for gasoline. the electric part is placed into engine bay.
200 km of autonomy in electric mode + 200 more using range extender....fuel consumption i quite high (4,5 l/100km ) but engineers say that will go down shortly
very smooth and silenced (brief test drive done by journalist)
there are also news about skyactiv engines and 3 hybrid (only for japan ..as we know)
Mazda
GLI SVILUPPI A BREVE, MEDIO E LUNGO PERIODO
Pubblicata il 21/11/2013 | tag: Mazda, Salone di Tokyo 2013
Pagina principaleGalleria fotografica
Il prototipo della Mazda Demio elettrica con il range extender Wankel. Il compatto range extender realizzato utilizzando il motore rotativo Wankel. La Mazda3 ibrida.
A margine del Salone di Tokyo 2013 la Mazda ha fatto il punto delle sue attività di sviluppo tecnico a breve, a medio e a lungo periodo. Tra le cose mostrate, spicca il prototipo di un range extender per vetture elettriche a batteria basato su un motore Wankel. Si tratta di una scelta naturale per la Casa di Hiroshima, l'unica ad aver creduto in questo tipo di propulsore.
La nuova vita del rotativo. Grazie alla compattezza del motore rotativo monorotore da 330 cm3, che eroga 22 kW, l'intero gruppo completo di generatore, inverter e serbatoio di benzina da 9 litri è stato montato sotto il vano bagagli di una delle 100 Mazda2 (Demio qui in Giappone) a batteria che la Casa ha allestito in via sperimentale. Dotate di un motore elettrico da 75 kW, le Demio a corrente hanno un'autonomia (misurata nel ciclo di omologazione giapponese) con gli accumulatori di 200 km, che raddoppia grazie al range extender, raggiungendo i 400 km complessivi. Motore e generatore di ricarica delle batterie sono affiancati e hanno assi verticali; la trasmissione del moto avviene mediante una cinghia dentata con rapporto di 1:2.
Senza vibrazioni. La scelta del Wankel è stata fatta a ragion veduta, sfruttando molte parti del motore della RX8 e grazie alle doti di compattezza, silenziosità e assenza di vibrazioni di tale propulsore. Abbiamo potuto constatare la validità di questa scelta in un brevissimo test del prototipo: il funzionamento del range extender è quasi inavvertibile e secondo i tecnici giapponesi alle andature più sostenute il rumore del congegno è coperto da quello di rotolamento e dai fruscii aerodinamici. Semmai, ciò che lascia perplessi è il consumo, circa 4,5 l/100 km: nulla di sorprendente, vista la fama di robusto bevitore del Wankel, ma alla Mazda giurano che un'eventuale futura versione di serie sarebbe più sobria. Tra l'altro, i tecnici giapponesi sottolineano come la compattezza del sistema lo renda ideale per realizzare gruppi elettrogeni: come dire, nel caso non se ne faccia niente sulle auto lo si potrà sempre riciclare...
Col cuore della Prius. Abbiamo anche potuto assaggiare la versione ibrida della Mazda3 berlina, in vendita in Giappone il prossimo gennaio. Alla Mazda non fanno mistero di aver acquistato la licenza del sistema ibrido dalla Toyota, quindi non stupisce il fatto che la vettura si comporti come una Prius, anche se gli ingegneri di Hiroshima hanno voluto precisare che la messa a punto è stata curata per dare alla vettura un comportamento adeguato alla tradizione della Casa. Il motore è il due litri a benzina Skyactiv e le uniche differenze nel corpo vettura rispetto alla versione normale sono il bagagliaio leggermente meno capiente a causa dell'ingombro della batteria, la leva di selezone delle modalità di guida specifica, la strumentazione che mostra i flussi di energia tra motore, batteria e generatore e la targhetta d'identificazione sul bagagliaio. Nel caso ci stiate facendo un pensierino, lasciate perdere: sarà venduta solo in Giappone.
L'evoluzione degli Skyactiv. Infine, i tecnici Mazda hanno anche illustrato gli sviluppi futuri dei motori Skyactiv, a benzina e diesel. Materia alquanto complessa da illustrare in poche righe: ci limitiamo a segnalare che restano immutati i capisaldi, ovvero rinuncia al downsizing e, per il benzina, alla sovralimentazione, mentre il rapporto di compressione continuerà a essere molto simile tra le due tipologie di motori, spingendosi ulteriormente in alto per quello a ciclo Otto. Che impiegherà miscela magra e in certi campi di utilizzo funzionerà ad accensione spontanea, avvicinandosi così ancora di più ai diesel. La Mazda non è la prima Casa che prova a percorrere questa strada, ma i suoi ingegneri sembrano crederci più di altri. Ma per capire se avranno successo si dovrà aspettare ancora un bel po'.
da Yokohama, Roberto Boni
(sorry --italian)
here it is a gallery (link)..scroll with arrows
Mazda Gli sviluppi a breve, medio e lungo periodo - Gallery - Quattroruote
presented @ Tokyo a Mazda Demio (a.k.a Mazda2 ) with a single rotor of 330cc used as range extender GASOLINE..not hydrogen....
330cc 22 kw of power..everything related to ICE engine is placed in the back of the car ,including a 9 liter tank for gasoline. the electric part is placed into engine bay.
200 km of autonomy in electric mode + 200 more using range extender....fuel consumption i quite high (4,5 l/100km ) but engineers say that will go down shortly
very smooth and silenced (brief test drive done by journalist)
there are also news about skyactiv engines and 3 hybrid (only for japan ..as we know)
Mazda
GLI SVILUPPI A BREVE, MEDIO E LUNGO PERIODO
Pubblicata il 21/11/2013 | tag: Mazda, Salone di Tokyo 2013
Pagina principaleGalleria fotografica
Il prototipo della Mazda Demio elettrica con il range extender Wankel. Il compatto range extender realizzato utilizzando il motore rotativo Wankel. La Mazda3 ibrida.
A margine del Salone di Tokyo 2013 la Mazda ha fatto il punto delle sue attività di sviluppo tecnico a breve, a medio e a lungo periodo. Tra le cose mostrate, spicca il prototipo di un range extender per vetture elettriche a batteria basato su un motore Wankel. Si tratta di una scelta naturale per la Casa di Hiroshima, l'unica ad aver creduto in questo tipo di propulsore.
La nuova vita del rotativo. Grazie alla compattezza del motore rotativo monorotore da 330 cm3, che eroga 22 kW, l'intero gruppo completo di generatore, inverter e serbatoio di benzina da 9 litri è stato montato sotto il vano bagagli di una delle 100 Mazda2 (Demio qui in Giappone) a batteria che la Casa ha allestito in via sperimentale. Dotate di un motore elettrico da 75 kW, le Demio a corrente hanno un'autonomia (misurata nel ciclo di omologazione giapponese) con gli accumulatori di 200 km, che raddoppia grazie al range extender, raggiungendo i 400 km complessivi. Motore e generatore di ricarica delle batterie sono affiancati e hanno assi verticali; la trasmissione del moto avviene mediante una cinghia dentata con rapporto di 1:2.
Senza vibrazioni. La scelta del Wankel è stata fatta a ragion veduta, sfruttando molte parti del motore della RX8 e grazie alle doti di compattezza, silenziosità e assenza di vibrazioni di tale propulsore. Abbiamo potuto constatare la validità di questa scelta in un brevissimo test del prototipo: il funzionamento del range extender è quasi inavvertibile e secondo i tecnici giapponesi alle andature più sostenute il rumore del congegno è coperto da quello di rotolamento e dai fruscii aerodinamici. Semmai, ciò che lascia perplessi è il consumo, circa 4,5 l/100 km: nulla di sorprendente, vista la fama di robusto bevitore del Wankel, ma alla Mazda giurano che un'eventuale futura versione di serie sarebbe più sobria. Tra l'altro, i tecnici giapponesi sottolineano come la compattezza del sistema lo renda ideale per realizzare gruppi elettrogeni: come dire, nel caso non se ne faccia niente sulle auto lo si potrà sempre riciclare...
Col cuore della Prius. Abbiamo anche potuto assaggiare la versione ibrida della Mazda3 berlina, in vendita in Giappone il prossimo gennaio. Alla Mazda non fanno mistero di aver acquistato la licenza del sistema ibrido dalla Toyota, quindi non stupisce il fatto che la vettura si comporti come una Prius, anche se gli ingegneri di Hiroshima hanno voluto precisare che la messa a punto è stata curata per dare alla vettura un comportamento adeguato alla tradizione della Casa. Il motore è il due litri a benzina Skyactiv e le uniche differenze nel corpo vettura rispetto alla versione normale sono il bagagliaio leggermente meno capiente a causa dell'ingombro della batteria, la leva di selezone delle modalità di guida specifica, la strumentazione che mostra i flussi di energia tra motore, batteria e generatore e la targhetta d'identificazione sul bagagliaio. Nel caso ci stiate facendo un pensierino, lasciate perdere: sarà venduta solo in Giappone.
L'evoluzione degli Skyactiv. Infine, i tecnici Mazda hanno anche illustrato gli sviluppi futuri dei motori Skyactiv, a benzina e diesel. Materia alquanto complessa da illustrare in poche righe: ci limitiamo a segnalare che restano immutati i capisaldi, ovvero rinuncia al downsizing e, per il benzina, alla sovralimentazione, mentre il rapporto di compressione continuerà a essere molto simile tra le due tipologie di motori, spingendosi ulteriormente in alto per quello a ciclo Otto. Che impiegherà miscela magra e in certi campi di utilizzo funzionerà ad accensione spontanea, avvicinandosi così ancora di più ai diesel. La Mazda non è la prima Casa che prova a percorrere questa strada, ma i suoi ingegneri sembrano crederci più di altri. Ma per capire se avranno successo si dovrà aspettare ancora un bel po'.
da Yokohama, Roberto Boni
Last edited by MattMPS; 11-21-2013 at 11:41 AM.
11-21-2013, 04:34 PM
#165
I like what BC said, there have been a couple successful I4 engine swaps in the rx8, it would take less innovation, engineering, and money to put a SA engine in the rx8 chassie then to create a high mpg, epa passing rotary.
they could have a sports car, make a profit then someday with all the profit turn out a good rotary engine. which would involve all the retooling to go to ceramics instead of hardend vodo steel and chrome.....
they could have a sports car, make a profit then someday with all the profit turn out a good rotary engine. which would involve all the retooling to go to ceramics instead of hardend vodo steel and chrome.....
11-21-2013, 04:38 PM
#166
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Fine, they can do that.
It doesn't really have any bearing on the topic of "Mazda producing another rotary". The people in this thread that want to see the return of the rotary aren't saying they want the return of the RX-8, they are saying they want the return of the rotary. Re-releasing the RX-8 chassis with a piston engine in it won't be "producing a rotary" any more than when you ask for an apple pie and get a bowl of cabbage instead.
We are talking about the engine here, not the chassis.
It doesn't really have any bearing on the topic of "Mazda producing another rotary". The people in this thread that want to see the return of the rotary aren't saying they want the return of the RX-8, they are saying they want the return of the rotary. Re-releasing the RX-8 chassis with a piston engine in it won't be "producing a rotary" any more than when you ask for an apple pie and get a bowl of cabbage instead.
We are talking about the engine here, not the chassis.
11-21-2013, 07:14 PM
#172
Nissan has the GT-R, Acura the NSX as their flagships; Mazda could easily produce a 3 rotor turbo'd beast that outperforms those two (mainly by massively undercutting their weights by not utilizing 4WD and electric motors and other gimmickry), and it wouldn't have to cost six figures. Building an analogue car in today's world of videogame-like supercars is its own niche, not to mention being the only rotary-engined ultra hi-po car, and could easily see sales of 1000 units/yr in the U.S. market for the duration of the model cycle. That's a much better route for MMC than to fiddle with competing against lame BRZs and Nissan Z cars. Been there, done that.
11-22-2013, 01:23 AM
#174
My inside sources have been telling me the same thing.
The rotary is dead.
There is no money.
They missed the market for US car sales again.
After holding out for a few years, people finally caved in and bought new cars last year and the year before.
Mazda 6 sales suck. It missed the window. Their SUV sales suck.
Sky active missed the window.
There's just no money.
The rotary is dead.
There is no money.
They missed the market for US car sales again.
After holding out for a few years, people finally caved in and bought new cars last year and the year before.
Mazda 6 sales suck. It missed the window. Their SUV sales suck.
Sky active missed the window.
There's just no money.
Bye bye Mazda
