PoorCollegeKid

The new Mustang cleaned house in Grand Am racing last year against cars like M3s and 911s, despite its solid rear axle. There's far more to suspension design than just solid vs. independent, and a good design can make up for most of the drawbacks of either setup.

I completely agree with you and rx8wannahave about the gearing of the 6MT '8, though. If Mazda had given the RX8 a steeper 6th gear, a gear that's nearly useless for acceleration as it is, the car would probably get better mileage. Maybe they did it for durability concerns, however, thinking that people who did a lot of highway driving would see a lot of carbon buildup if they drove at low rpm all the time.

rx8wannahave

Maybe...but I thought the Renesis has internally designed "cleaners" to help avoid that problem to begin with. Check this out...

Exhaust gas build-up against the side seal can easily cause carbonization, but with the wedge-shaped or cuneiform side seal, the seal shape is optimized to remove carbon. The shape is also more congruent to its opposed frictional surface, achieving much better sealing proficiency.

A key word here is that it states it is "optimized to REMOVE carbon"...not (reduce). This could be more hype than truth but that’s what is reported from that website.

Here is the picture:



If you want, read more here: http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/renesis.php

Anyway, our 6th gear is near useless as is and there is no reason why Mazda (that I know of at least) should have messed this up. When do we use 6th for acceleration????? Gosh...only if your trying to do a top speed run from 0mph...and even then I hear we reach a higher top speed at 9K in 5th.

The thing is, by looking at my wife’s Mazda 6…her auto is humming above 3k on the highway so Mazda has continuously messed this up. Mazda, for the love of GOD…check out how GM gets such nice fuel economy from their big V8’s…LOW RPM ON THE HIGHWAY!!!

bascho

I guess we should add this Saleen spec to your list then:


2006 SALEEN S281 Extreme Coupe
ENGINE
Type 4.6L, 3V, SOHC V-8
Bore and Stroke 3.55 x 3.54 in.
Displacement 4.6 liters, 281 cu in.
Horsepower 550 bhp
Torque 500 lb-ft
Saleen Intercooled Supercharger Saleen Series VI Integrated TwinScrew Supercharger With Two-Stage Water-To-Air Intercooler System; Cast 356-T6 aluminum alloy construction

or this one:

2006 Ford GT - Prep'd by Saleen (shown at 2006 NAIAS)
ENGINE
Type 5.4L, 4V, DOHC V-8
Bore/Stroke (mm): 90.2x105.8
Displacement (cu in/cc): 330/5409
Horsepower 650 bhp
Torque 600 lb-ft
Saleen Intercooled Supercharger Saleen Series VI Integrated TwinScrew Supercharger With Two-Stage Water-To-Air Intercooler System; Cast 356-T6 aluminum alloy construction


Saleen does better things with the modulars than they ever did with the old pushrod small blocks.

BaronVonBigmeat

And they would do even better still, if Ford would develop a new pushrod motor in the 5.4~7L range.

PoorCollegeKid

Cool stuff, I hadn't seen that before. I think that Mazda's short top gears aren't helped by their relatively small, less-torquey (when compared to the competition) engines. I know the 3.0L V6 in the Mazda 6s doesn't have the low end torque that Nissan's VQ35s or GM's 3800s do, so maybe Mazda gears its cars so much shorter so that they can match or exceed their torquier competitor's top gear acceleration numbers? Maybe they just don't want to require downshifting to pass on the highway or to go up decently sized hills.

Japan8

My thoughts exactly.

bascho

Should BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan, etc all give up OHC V8 engine development with Ford?

Japan8

^^ obviously something is FUBAR if they all can get more power, higher redlines, and lower weights packaged into cars that are lighter and most often handle better. What the hell? Is this a one-way relationship... pick Ford's brains and they get all the benefit?

bascho

I definitely think the problem is Ford being too conservative with the modulars and not the design itself. They need to do something drastic with the 5.4 here soon....especially since the Tundra has 380hp for 2007. Isn't it amazing how much power vehicles have these days? 5 years ago 380hp was a Lightning F150....the fastest truck at the time. Now you have 425hp Grand Cherokees, 400hp Trailblazers, 380hp Toyota Tundra??? WTF. Ford needs to step up to the plate if they want to remain the King of Trucks. I think we need to see a bigger modular...something closer to 6.0L and pumping out 380-400hp. Ford needs to change their mindset of '300hp is just fine' before they lose core customers. Toyota has two V8 engines over 300hp for 2007, Nissan's V8 is at 305hp, GM's 6.1L is at 360hp and Dodge's Hemi is at 345hp (even more with the V10). Ford has got to make a big increase in power in their truck line for 2007. That is my $.02.

Japan8

^^ You and I are in complete agreement. Ford has been the King of Trucks, but they are going to lose that title if they don't start firing the bean counters, get some ***** and step up to the plate... take some (calculated) risks damn it!

They have the engineering talent and as you mentioned work together with other major automakers... they know how to do it... they just aren't. It's past time that they do.

The need to amortize platform and engine development costs is just good business sense. There is DEFINITELY a market for a luxury RWD sports sedan. Even Toyota is smart enough to see this... thus the birth of the IS and the GS and LS have always been RWD. That's about all BMW and MB make... and this is their market (thus why Honda is dumb with the Acura line). Ford needs to not only take aim, but surpass them... at a better price. Let's see a RWD Lincoln sports sedan... better than the LS was. Build a 3 Series killer... use the V6 and V8 from the Mustang as powertrain. Then FINALLY make an SVT model which shares motors with the GT500... and give them both that aluminum block I was talking about. A larger displacement version of that aluminum block engine could power the top model lincoln sedan. Again helping to amortize costs...hell this will probably help with the regular Mustang costs (so they can up the interior quality in exchange if anything). Man... Ford PD or marketing could use me...

Japan8

BTW... that new Tundra looks pretty nice. I hope that Toyota will be offering it with a M/T... if so... damn sweet ride. Ford better watch out.

PoorCollegeKid

You have to remember that those companies operate mainly in markets where engines with extra displacement are "punished" by the tax structure. Most have not designed an OHV engine for a mass produced vehicle in decades, if ever, because of this. Ford, OTOH, made very respectable OHV engines up until roughly 15 years ago, when they switched to the OHC V8s.

However, I've read that the current mod V8 is limited to around 5.4L due to its short length (it was originally designed to fit transversely in a FWD car as well as in the RWD cars that traditionally got a V8). I think Ford will have to S/C their engine to maintain the fat low end torque curve that trucks need and boost power to 350+hp levels at the same time.

IMO, Ford should either take advantage of the OHC setup to produce more power out of their given displacements to try to make up for the mod engine's excessive bulk (in their sportier cars, anyway), supercharge the engines if necessary (which has been proven to work quite well), or move back to pushrods in applications where the excess weight is a handicap (imagine a Mustang with a modern, aluminum 302 that dropped 100lbs out of the nose of the car without sacrificing power). It's odd that they designed these nice OHC V8s but still limit the new ones to the same 6000-6500rpm redlines and relatively low specific outputs as Chevy's previous generation (LS1/LS6) of smaller, lighter, more powerful pushrod engines.

bascho

S/C the 5.4 has definitely provided some nice results......and that may be the least expensive option for Ford. Developing a larger displacement modular would be a much greater expense than using a S/C which has already proven itself on the Lightning and Harley Davidson versions......of course that was before the 3V heads. However, Saleen has been able to pull 450hp and 500 lb/ft from a S/C 5.4 3V in their new 2007 S331. Ford should be able to get 400hp with a smaller blower.

I really don't think Ford is going to invest in a small block V8 OHV ever again.....I could be wrong......I don't think it's going to happen. The could start offering the V10 OHV in the F150 kinda like Dodge offers the V10 in the Ram 1500.