Sephiroth

Comparing Ferrari with Chevrolet is an honor for Chevrolet!

Aston Martin i consider to be Ford. Thanks for mentioning it.

The Z06 has 500+ hp. For that kind of power it is getting great gas mileage. Hell, with 400hp the C6 is getting the same or better gas mileage than STi and the RX8, both with 300hp or less.

BlueSky

Hmmm seems like this thread is populated with American fanboys and European fanboys.

I'd like to remind you all that straightline performance isn't everything. Hell, that's why most people even consider a RX8, because it handles soo well.

And also, remember that any car can be made to have mind-blowing straightline performance. But if you want a great-handling car, you have to build it like so from the ground up.

For the most part, if you compare the best European cars to the best American cars, the European cars will outhandle the Americans. Although a Z06 is almost as quick to 60 as a F430, on any sort of road with bends the Vette will be left behind or in the trees. The Europeans are also built to higher standards and are on a higher engineering plane.

The great thing about American cars is the bang for the buck factor. The Z06 is the best example. But from what I've read, the Z06 suffers form numb steering and an incommunicative chassis, traits you will never find on a Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc.

Sure you pay a premium for European cars but you are paying for true excellence in every respect.

BUT, one American car that I have tremendous respect for is the Saleen S7 Twin Turbo. That car is a total beast and from what I read it handles like on rails. The Mosler MT900s is also another example of a fantastic American car.

limepro

i was just putting up numbers of american cars that i actually did a search for instead of just throwing up there that european will blow away american cars with nothing to stand behind it even though every car he threw up there the ford gt beats and it handles great.

i have always been a ford lover since my father had a 65 mustang for my whole life well a few of them he would buy them and rebuild them last 1 he had before i moved out was a 65 mustang with a 351 (i believe cleveland) that thing was a beast. i dont remember which 351 because when we got it from the junkyard they said it was the windsor but when he pulled it apart to rebuild and clean it i think he found out it was the cleveland meh eitherway it was a beast =D

edit: and the reason i didnt buy ford now is because they put out mass produced crap with the exception of a few cars i also love the styling of the 8 over any car in my price range and the handling and detail put into the car is beautiful

Sephiroth

Have the Z06 and F430 ever been tested together? What are the N'ring times? What are some good benchmarks to compare them?

Again, we are comparing Chevrolet with Ferrari. I doubt the Z06 was made to compete with the F430 anyway. Correct me if im wrong.

therm8

The C6 Z06 posted a 7:40 lap on the Nurburgring(a production car record at the time, don't know if anyone's beaten it yet). I believe the 430 was 7:5x. So I disagree

Every review I've read states that the chassis and steering are too responsive, and many reviewers joke that it is really too much car to handle for non-profesionals.

Like VW/Audi's reliability? MB's penchant for dull, uninspired, underperforming cars? Don't come into a thread throwing fanboi accusations around without checking your own post first

Sephiroth

I believe the CGT and the Koenigsegg are 1 and 2 and the Z06 is 3rd. Not 100% sure.

Ike

How about a 4 Cylinder with no nitrous?

http://srvidz.vidiac.com/search/9.13...14e3bfc688.htm

They might top that this weekend since that was one of their first runs on a new setup.

Ike

I think that's right, Carrera GT was like 7m32.??s

The Donkervoort RS is the fastest "road car" and did it in 7m18s

Paul_in_DC

From the article you linked to, maybe you missed this part: "For this round, with these two cars, on these two days, we give a slim victory to the Ferrari F430—rematch on American soil (including a real racetrack) to come."

ps - There's more to making a car than straight-line acceleration.

limepro

since this thread is discussing muscle cars and muscle car basis is how fast they get from 1 point to another in a straight line we are talking about times where in american beats them.

bascho

Panoz uses a FoMoCo (Ford for you youngin's) 4.6 DOHC engine.....hardly a European V8.

bascho

I love how some are comparing $200K-$400K supercars to $50-70K cars with regards to engineering. Do you really think that the engineers of the $300K car are better/smarter than the engineers behind the $30K car? It's all about money spent. Hello, Ford didn't go to Italy to hire engineers for the FORD GT because they felt their American engineers were unable to deliver. It's about money....period!

Saleen is a great example of American made supercars and the S7 is the car you should be comparing to Ferrari. You have to consider cost in these comparisons because that is the limiting factor.

If GM wanted to build a $200K Vette.....then you can bet that Vette would slaughter everything else on the road. Ferrari already builds a $200K car and cannot make that statement.

strokercharged95gt

F430 $170,000
Z06 $65,000

you could buy 2 z06 and put $15,000 in modifications to each of them for the price of the 430. You just can't compare them.

limepro

since the most comparisons im making are of the 150k ford gt to the european supercars it is a comparison that can be made and stock the ford gt wins in muscle car comparison but yes if chevy made a 150k vette that thing would be a monster just as if ford put the 427 supercharged stock in a car it would tear nearly everything up

bascho

I wasn't referring to your comparo of the F430 and Ford GT.....since that is a legitimate comparo and exactly the reason Ford developed the Ford GT.

Ford 427 S/C stock.....what engine are you referring to?

limepro

the 427 was used in the shelby cobra but then transfered to a few special early model mustangs it has incredible horsepower and torque as is i have seen a remodeled shelby cobra with a supercharged 427 in it which is insane because of the light weight and crazy torque but if ford incorporated it into 1 of their specialy vehicles they could do alot with it as they love to supercharge vehicles

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh...itShowFord427/

427 CI 590 hp 509 ft lbs torque without a supercharger with their twin screw they will be at 700 hp+ and if they could figure out how to keep traction with that they can push 3second 0-60

Aseras

my only take is if you have a domestic.. it CAKE to get parts.... imports, parts are hard to get.. even 5 years out it's still hard to get parts at a local parts chain with my 2001 civic. everything even the common sh*t is still special order.

Sephiroth

I don't think anyone here is trying to say the F430 is not a good car or does not have a good engine. Some people just don't give credit where credit is due. The C6 Z06 can compete, and damn well at that.

bascho

The 427 was a Ford race engine. As far as Mustang usage....it was offered in only a handful of A/FX Mustangs in 1968. The 428 and 429 were the common big blocks used for the Mustang. Also, that engine has not been used by Ford in close to 40 years.....it's never coming back.

The 427 you show in your link is a V10 not a V8.

Japan8

Although Ford should REALLY consider an aluminum block version of the 5.4L V8. The reviews of the GT500 all talked about how nose heavy the car is (and heavy in general). The competition is coming soon from Chrysler and likely from GM. Ford would be wise to preempt them with better GT500 using that block and a twin screw S/C (instead of roots) and also using a NA version in either the GT or a car positioned between the GT and GT500. But that's just my humble opinion...

p-trix

But with realibilty american car suck

bascho

Aluminum blocks are a great way for Ford to lower the weight of the vehicle.....and now that the 4.6 and 5.4 are used in all their trucks, SUV's and several car lines....they should be able to spread-out the increased material costs. Not to mention trucks and SUV's now have to worry about fuel economy just like all other vehicle segments.

I think 500hp is plenty for a production Mustang.......moving to lighter materials to lower the curb weight is a better direction for R&D to take then worrying about the s/c. Those that need more power can call up Kenne Bell and order a Blowzilla.

bascho

You could make a similar statement about some European cars.

limepro

yes the 427 shown is a v10 but they are making concept cars with the redesigned 427 and if they put that into a supercar such as the GT same as ferrari and lambo use v12s and then put that up against one another ford will simply blow them away. the muscle in the cars that ford makes is much more than european and they can compete with them people just want the name ferrari or lambo

daisuke

not true as a general statement, just some manufacturers have bad engines or models, the V6 powered 91 thunderbird was famous for blown head gaskets, but the V8 was a dream to run, that said... the interior was the same for both and the materials used were **** so they both fell apart easily