rodrigo67

Not sure if this is posted yet, but it looks like if Gm's pontiac and buick sales don't improve, they are going to axe one of them...

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/...&w=RTR&coview=

Gm's product have been lack luster in recent years and they don't have alot in the pike that looks interesting, other then the Solstice. When are they going to get rid of thier grandpa thinking and actually put out a car that will appeal to today's buyers...

GTO? nice engine in a cavelier. What a waste.

G6? not bad looking but just ho hum performance...if I wanted a plain car I'd buy a toyota.

Cobalt? was this suppose to fill the gap between a vette and a aveo...they need to bring back an updated camaro/firebird.

Rhawb

If you ask me, I think Buick is going to be the first to go. The Lacrosse seems to be their last-ditch effort to drum up interest in the brand among the "younger" crowd (young for Buick is relative, mind you) and it's simply not going anywhere. I really don't think Buick has anything left up their sleeves and are going to be forced to shape up or ship out. Seems that their only option as far as I can see is "ship out".

TODreamer

they are in a serious dillema.

1) They continue to do a half-assed job on product styling and fit within their propposed market. They cant expect things to get better if they put no effort to change things. the GTO is a prime example of something that could have been so much better if they would have put a little more effort.

2) They have poor, poor, POOR branding... its very "old" and "dated" and unappealing

3) #1 and #2 fuel eachother... its like a vicios little circle

SHOWOFF

Nothing says you're ready to retire at 55 like a new Buick. IMO they carry the ugliest **** on the road. I feel sorry for Tiger Woods having to give up his Ford GT in order to keep driving and endorsing his grandpa's cars.

Gambit

Pretty much all of GM's new styling (aside from the corvette) has been very uninspired. Look at the new chevy cobalt, Impala, Monte Carlo, G6, etc.

jsh1120

The bold part of your post is the heart of GM's dilemma. GTO's, and "updated camaro/firebirds" aren't going to save GM. Nor are firebreathing Cadillac's. GM's bread and butter (at least as far as passenger cars are concerned) has always been "family sedans." A corporation the size of GM can't make it on the combined sales of various pony cars, convertibles, and sports cars, no matter how well designed and appealing.

Both the G6 and the Buick LaCrosse are meant to appeal to the buyers who purchase the Camry, Accord, and their upmarket siblings. If they're successful (and the jury is definitely out on that question), GM will do well. If they're not, no combination of GTO's, Camaro's, Soltice's, etc. etc. will save them.

RPIRX-8

This has been a long time in coming. What has always baffled me (and Chrysler got this recently) is how you have many brands that basically sell the same car. Plus, now that Toyota is the best selling brand in the US, they are really in trouble.

They've got to cut brands, or cut vehicle lines and consolidate. Have one company make cars in a bunch of diff't classes like Toyota does.

Get rid of Buick first altogether, make Chevy a truck only brand (except for Corvette maybe), make Saturn low cost, make Pontiac performance ONLY (and when I say performance, I don't mean put out a 3.5L V6 that only produces 200hp when Nissan has a 3.5L V6 that makes 280hp).

Demon Speeding

I work at a Buick-Pontian-GMC-Hummer-Saab dealership (Chevy and Saturn too) - NO I don't sell them! I do the graphic designs and marketing for the whole enterprise. They always ask me when I'm gonna trade in my 8. HA! I dropped off something at the Chevy store and parked on the lot. So many people went up to the car and were interested in it. Sorry, not for sale. I love leaving the dealership with everyone staring....heheehhee.

dos

Pontiac Aztec...


I can't even say anything else, this car makes me sick.

PaulieWalnuts

Buick is next. I thought Buick would have went before Oldsmobile. It's a shame because Olds was just starting to come out with some interesting products again.

In the 30s 40s 50s Buick used to be a distinct "middle class luxury car". For 30 years now it's been a GM Mr Potato Headmobile like every other GM brand. The problem is people (like my Mom) who still think Buick is something special are dwindling pretty qucikly. Pontiac has been selling tons of Grand Ams so I don't think they're going anywehere.

FoxTypeR

My sentiments exactly.

RPIRX-8

I couldn't have said it better myself.

c2k4-8

GM can get back on a roll - they just need "gotta have" products at a good price.

6speed8

It's bad when Lutz cals Buick and Pontiac as "Damaged Brands" - Now there's a way to sell cars!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7275511/

Steiner

I will be crushed if they eliminate Buick. My family has owned, sold and modified Buicks for the last 75 years. I don't think it was any accident that Buick was the first American car sold in Japan when the trade embargos were lifted twenty years ago. It's also no accident that Buick is the best selling car in China right now.

Over the last 15 years the styling has been admittedly boring and geared towards a demographic I'm 50 years away from...that much isn't even debatable...but my God Buicks are fugging well made and reliable cars. My father put 190k miles on his '90 Buick Park Avenue (with touring package LOL) before giving it to me and buying a supercharged '00 Buick Park Avenue Ultra. I put another 140k trouble free miles on that '90 Buick before I traded it in for my '02 Nissan Spec V. I still see it driving around occasionally now as a taxi cab. The only work ever done on that car was about every 30k-50k miles the 02 sensor would need to be replaced. The car would start getting choppy at idle so I'd take it to Buick and $70 later it was fine for another 2 or 3 years. Other than the 02 sensor I can't recall anything...oh yeah...the catalytic converter was clogged up and needed to be replaced at 230k miles. But realistically that was a great car that didn't exactly get babied. Buick's 3.8L V6 has won countless engineering and reliability awards. For anybody that has driven one, it's possible to never go above 2K RPM's with that motor because of how much lowend torque it generates. I loved it and if Buick ever offered that engine in a compact or mid sized AWD or RWD car I would seriously consider buying it.

My grandfather sold Buicks for 10 years and drove them his whole life. Needless to say everybody in my family owned a Buick at some point. My cousin still drives a fully restored '68 Buick Skylark 4 door with a 455ci that he bought from my great grandmother. My little brother owns (but seldom drives) a fully restored '69 Buick Skylark GS400 with a stroked factory 400ci displacing about 422ci. It's more or less become our project car once it started cracking into the high 11's at 3k feet of elevation! It's so fast it lifts the front left tire off the ground. And my mom, aunt, uncle and I'm sure a bunch of others all own late model Buicks. If these cars weren't reliable they wouldn't have such a loyal following. If Buick gets dropped it's not because of the quality, reliability and fit & finish. The problem is uninspired design. And with the recent admission by GM that the ZETA platform has been dropped for production in the USDM I think this all but confirms that it will be much of the same at Buick for the foreseable future...reliable piles of boredom.

TODreamer

As I have said earlier..... poor branding

therm8

I think Pontiac can and will survive. Alot of people bash the GTO's exterior looks, and I agree that it's kind of bland, but obviously most people don't mind a little blandness if the Camry is the top selling car in the country. The overall quality of the vehicle (GTO) is where Pontiac needs to get it's entire line to.

Giving Buick the axe is the best thing that GM could do, imo. I don't know if the line is profitable or not, but the cost savings of cutting production would definately help. Cutting back on the ridiculous # of SUV models would help also. I think perhaps a general change in company management would probably be the best thing that could happen to GM.

TODreamer

yeah but not when they are dropping $46K CDN on a vehicle which aint all that hot as a total performance package they dont.... Sure the GTO is a beast but many people wont feel good about paying that kind of coin for a car that looks like a grand prix on roids (enthusiast or not)... and it clearly shows.... How many GTO's do you se on the road? I've seen one in two years.


would it have killed Pontiac to put a little more effort of something?

MTLbroker

When was the Miata introduced? 1984? Talk about an automotive gamble! That car became the best selling roadster in history (and probably saved Mazda). It single handedly revived the 2-seater open car concept in a time when convertibles had become dinosaurs. The formula proven so successful, car companies everywhere got back into that market. Z3, Z4, boxster, S2000.....
Here we are 20 odd years later, GM announces the Solstice. Sorry, 20 years too late. That's how american car companies do things. Japanese cars in late 70's were the butt of jokes. Until they surpassed american car companies in quality and durability. Then at Ford, they decided that quality is job 1. Again a decade or so too late.
American car companies are reactive and not proactive. They wait until someone else takes a gamble, then try to penetrate that market. So they always play catch-up. No auto executive will risk his options grant or bonus on a truly groundbreaking concept. They only thing they can do is reach back into the past, into its glory days and come up with retro-cars. Even then, T-bird is dead, prowler is dead, PT cruiser will die.
Watch how Nissan and Honda do in the pickup market. I'm not a pickup truck person, but I can appreciate the design elements incorporated in the Honda pickup. Clever, ingenious design. Toyota and Honda hybrids are selling like hotcakes. The americans autos are being left behind once again. All they seem to know how to do is dump a big engine into the engine bay and turn the car loose on the market.

124Spider

While I'm no friend of GM, which has made an artform of making drab cars for some years now, I couldn't let this comment pass, regarding the only American-built car which has me very interested. The C6 has received universal accolades for its performance, both straight-line and on twisties. It is, by any rational standard for car enthusiasts, a remarkable car, and a remarkable value. Check this Road & Track article out as an example.

GM has done little right for a long time, but the Corvette, recently, is one thing they've done really right....

TODreamer

Yeah... too bad they did something right on the model car that is furthest from their bread and butter.....

Pointer: Fix up the cars that get you the substantial sales first and foremost... so that you can be around tomorrow to focus on your fancy specialty models.

PaulieWalnuts

What do you think they've been doing? Although they've shortened the cycle, you call 10-15 years per generation focusing on their specialty models? C3? 68-83, C4 84-96, C5 97-04

They're focusing on what makes them the most money. And it's not G6s, GTOs or Soltices. It's where the demand is - SUVs! That's why they can charge $50K for a lousy Chevy suburban and $60K for an stinking Escalade. It's also why they crank out a new SUV every couple of months. They make big profits on SUVs and there's huge demand.

No More Oldsmobiles

I felt the same way when Oldsmobile got the ax. (Plus it was the oldest operating car company -- older than Ford.)

My last four or five cars had been Oldsmobiles for one simple reason: My first cars were unreliable beaters and I was fed up with that. I needed dependable transportation. If you have only one car, it has to work. Oldsmobiles, boring as they were, worked, unlike so many shoddy U.S. cars. I've now kept my Olds with 100,000 plus miles on it (and no major work) for a winter car and have no qualms about driving it in the worst weather.

As was said, Olds was just starting to do some interesting stuff when it got the ax. But on the bright side, if they still made them, I'd probably be in an Intrigue right now instead of the 8.

rodrigo67

124spider, I was referring to the G6 ( g 6 ) not the vette. The vette's about the only thing gm's got that can still wow a crowd. I agreed that it is an awesome car and for the price, I don't think anything out there can beat it, but the g6, which looks like the replacement for the grand am is still ho hum... :p

spork

I hope you realize he said G6 while you're talking about the C6!

He's sure as hell ain't comparing a 'vette with a Camry!

EDIT: Dammit rodrigo, don't post a few seconds before me!