Blackout04RX

I was doing some browzing in Road and Track today, I came across an ad for something I have yet to hear anything about, curious if anyone knows more about its quality, and such.

Apparently API (American Petroleum Institute) has developed a completely bio degradable engine oil, which was recently employed this year in the American Le Mans series. It seems to have a variety of weights, and makes claims to be superior to Synthetic.

Being that it is an ad, the claims of being better then synethetic are obviously up for conjecture, but the fact that it is bio-degradable, and apparently up to 24 hour racing standards, peaked my interest. Does anyone know anything about this?

rotarygod

It is from a company called Green Earth Technologies. Their base stock is plant based. Nothing wrong with that. Castrol was originally plant based as it was originally Castor Oil hence their name.

http://www.getg.com/index.php

Supposedly there have been a few people on the BITOG forum that think it's good but there isn't a whole lot of info. Then again you never know what to think about what you read on BITOG as they tend to favor certain oils. That's what happens when you have 3 oil companies as your site sponsors! You typically favor their products and delete the posts that don't support them. They do this alot over there. They do leave certain ones though in an attempt to make things appear fair and unbiased.

This oil brings up or better yet adds to an interesting argument that has been raging in regards to oil. Do we call it conventional or synthetic? There are some people that object to a Group III oil being called synthetic since it still uses a petroleum base stock. However the term was applied because of the technique used to get it rather than what it was made out of. Group III oils are not distilled like Group I and II oils but rather hydrocracked which is really nothing more than real world application of balancing chemistry formulas. Since it isn't a naturally occurring method, it's synthetic. Simple.

So is the term synthetic to be applied to something that was arrived at through a process that does not occur in nature or should the term synthetic be applied to anything regardless of process used to get it that is not based on a petroleum base stock? That's where those arguments really fall.

What is plant based oil then? If we apply the standard that a synthetic oil is forumlated through a process that does not occur in nature, that could make this oil either conventional or synthetic depending on what they do to arrive at their base stock. However if we use the standard that a synthetic oil is one that does not use a petroleum base stock, then this would technically be a synthetic. Confused yet? Should we create a 3rd category?

I wouldn't object to trying it. It is very expensive at nearly $11 per bottle though and I guarantee my local authorities would still get mad if I washed it down the driveway when I was done with it. It meets API's SM standard which means it should be a decent oil. How much better than the minimum standard is the real question though. I'd definitely rather have a doctor who had an A average in school operating on me as opposed to the D student doctor.

Flashwing

IIRC, the issue of Synthetic vs. Mineral oil was a legal battle that occurred between Castrol and Mobile 1. I don't know what started the issue but the end result was a company being able to market a product that wasn't a Group IV or V base stock at those synthetic prices.

Any oil company can make a less expensive Group III base stock and sell it for $12 a quart because it says synthetic. It was a marketing ploy which is why I'm not in favor of that whole situation.

RG is right that it will be expensive. My question would be how much of the protection aspect has been sacrificed for the bio degradable properties?

rotarygod

I told you what the issue surrounding calling a group III a synthetic is. One side feels that since it's base stock is petroleum based, regardless of what was done to it, that it's conventional.

The other side believes that since it wasn't just distilled from petroleum but instead also had hydrogen added during hydrocracking to combine into certain molecules while removing undesirables in the process that this should be called synthetic as there was no way to get a petroleum base stock that clean and pure through distilling. Some base stock is formed as a result of the hydrogen added as well so all of the end product didn't start out in the same place.

Now whichever camp you fall into, I just like to think that regardless of what it is technically classified as, it's still a better based oil than the Group I or II oils. Is it up to Group IV or V? I'd say no to that but that too is debatable as once you get into the world of the "synthetics", a higher group number no longer implies a better oil. Just a different one.

In the end it's all motor oil. What matters is how well it does it's job and not where it came from or how it was made.

Blackout04RX

But we aren't supposed to use synthetic on a rotary engine, or at least that is what I have been led to believe. It doesn't mesh as well with the Renesis. My question is if a plant based oil would be as good, because most plant based oils tend to have a lower flash point than petroleum based oils. Which is why we have yet to impliment it on a grand scale. They have been around, but do not meet the same standards. Perhaps in an electric car they could used as basic lubrication in the moving parts, but I would be skeptical. And if the price really is over $10, it definately fails in terms of cost vs benefit

rotarygod

Let's not go through that argument again. Mazda says (for liability reasons too stupid to relist) that synthetics should not be used in a rotary. Yes they use it in their race engines which are nothing special compared to street engines from a material standpoint and yes many of use have used it for years with no ill side effects. Why? Because it's better stuff!

I'm curious to know why the synthetic naysayers think there is a poor cost to benefit? What are you expecting? Do you think your engines should make twice the power and have half the economy while conventional oils should come to a grinding halt? What is the basis of this?