tiltmode43

iTrader: (15)

Clarkson's a great entertainer but I hate how much power he has. A few weeks ago I watched the good, bad, and ugly and by the end of it my friends were complaining about how horrible American cars are.

Still, American brands sell cars and do so because they fill a certain niche. Anyways, a few years down the line, aftermarket according, I may want to pick up one of these. GM is certainly doing things and come to think of it I think the crossfire was the first step in this direction like it or not.

Renesis_8

as in, adding curves to cars?
________
How To Roll Blunts

Sephiroth

You know, many of you are complaining that Ford and GM don't make vehicles that excite you. But what about Toyota or Honda? When was the last time you've ever seen a real sports car from toyota? Honda never had more than 2, one of which was way above most people's financial reach. So the question now becomes, who out there has what you want or comes closest?

Razz1

Well Buick has never had a major quality problem.

And in the last few years GM has had a higher rating than toyota and Hona on certain models.

mikeschaefer

Agreed, only american car i like is the new c6 but i can't afford that! I test drove the new Mustang for a while before buying the 8 but of course it just wasn't the same.

I'll be looking at the new camaro when it comes out though, just because I've always wanted to restore a 69. I can't get away from the fact I love muscle cars! (the old ones anyways)

Spin9k

That quote sure struck me...I mean $16,000,000,000.00 every freaking year! Holly Carp! Is that actually true?????

You'd wonder how we aren't all in hover cars powered by fusion power cells by now?

Not only is that an astronomical amount of change, and doesn't include other maker's worldwide 'development $'... but it's an example of how statistics, and a writer's bias towards his point of view will associate terms like "research and development" with something good (how about money thrown away getting little in return?) That money figure and anything to actually DO with improving cars quality or anything else for that matter is meaningless, but here are used as a positive point. It's follows as an obvious point that all the money in the world doesn't improve "cars" if the people spending it are focused beancounters 1st, car people 5th, 9th, or somewhere far down their list of priorities.

I mean how many fenders, tail lights, seats, dashboards, etc., are redesigned along with the manufacturing facilities to produce them every year and to what greater good for "cars"? Little, if any most likely, but that's where megabucks of the money in "research and development" goes often times.

All car companies are marketing styling, lifestyle projection, image, machismo, conservatism, feeling richiness...whatever you want - to part you from some of your income as often as possible. How many people use cars as they are advertised? Pintos/Skylarks/etc. with spoilers come to mind. Fortunately some car makers actually provide the goods they advertise, and some car owners actually put their cars to the test. Alternatively, and in the majority of cases, consumers literally buy the marketing and wouldn't know a good (bad) car if it killed them, and sometimes that's exactly what happens!

Although I will admit to favoring foreign cars since by early training on the subject by owning a Ford, I don't think American brand companies have any choke hold on good or bad "quality".

Quality alone is an elusive word. Witness the J D Powers 'surveys'. For example, one could argue that Mercedes Benz or Audi/VW have designed some of the best cars, technology-wise, in the world. Likewise for the Italians, but do they break down? And how often and at what cost? Is that poor quality because they break or is it bleeding edge quality design that needs more maintenance to stay at high levels of perfection? Think of our beloved RX-8 too. To the owners and in some 'keep-it-simple' answer in a survey it may be a moot point. Or do some consumers lie to keep from admiting they're been 'taken-in' when asked in surveys? What type of problem and how much of a problem flips someone from positive to negative on a purchase?

Not all consumers care about performance 'quality', they simply want appliance 'quality' that works without fail for 100K miles without major maintenance. I need/want that too, and try to combine those several quality metrics, engineering quality, performance quality, and maintenance/repair quality in one car.

Sometimes you win, but it does tend to be a crapshoot. Therefore the benefit of owning more than one car, boring low-maint quality for daily use, and ideally, exciting, low maint for fun driving. Bottom line, the perfect quality car is as different as people are.

nranly

No. The number is much closer to 19 Billion in 2005 which is only approx. 4% of their revenue.

You have to remember that R&D spending is used to design new cars, engines, factories, etc.

WhiteDealershipRice

^^
It's still spinning on the numbers. Marketing/profitability research and designing better landscaping for the factories (all of which can be crunched as R&D for statistical numbers) do not, a better car make...

Rhawb

Okay, soapbox time. I don't really know that this is particularly on-topic, but I feel like getting on my horse here.

Ya know, I just wish that Ford and GM would actually build those interesting cars that they show off at auto shows. Hey Ford, what the hell happened to that awesome Iosis concept that seemed to draw positive praise from EVERYONE who saw it? But, hey, at least the 500 kicked ***, am I rite?!

GM actually started doing this to an extent with the Sky and Solstice, and - would you believe it - they're SELLING! Lincoln has a rather sharp concept called the MKR in the new Car and Driver. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but it's the first Lincoln that has ever caught my eye over the 22 years of my life.

In my eyes, it's simple - they need to stop pushing out cars that people buy because they're the cheapest or because they're incentived all to hell and back. All they really need to do is put out some cars that people buy because they want to own them and take pride in their ownership. It doesn't even have to be their whole lineup! Just put out a halo car or two for each brand and get people to take notice. They're certainly capable - in fact, I've seen the proof with my own two eyes - it's just a matter of shaking those bean counters who seem to cause so much disruption between concept and production.

Backup7

Iosis = new Mondeo (Euro market)

Rhawb

Yeah, it's a good thing they're not bringing it over here - if that were the case, they might actually sell a few, THEN what would they do!?

Oh the huge manatee!

Seriously though, are these guys afraid of actually achieving decent sales numbers?

TALAN7

Every employee of the big 3 needs to watch that video. It was very biased but it also was a scathing rebuke of American values. Particularly with vehicles like the Hummer and Escalade. When I was in the Army the HUMVee's where able to do anything. Too bad the Hummers are so watered down.

That said, the biggest gripe Clarkson seemed to have with any American cars was the driving dynamics. Sure some are big on power and some look good, but driving them was another issue.

ckape

I don't have anything against American car companies, they're just not offering anything I want. The new Mustang looked nice, until I sat in one, and GM has several cars that I thought deserved a deeper inspection, until I noticed none of them offered a manual. I do think GM is moving in the right direction, but they're not going to make it there by the time I can finally buy an 8.

Sephiroth

The Big 3 will produce what the majority of Americans want. If you look at the video, Clarkson concludes the same. Most rich Americans don't need the off road capability of a Humvee. Who in their right mind is going to take their expensive Land Rover to some god-forsaken place to test it's abilities!?! Makes no sense at all.

Look at toyota now. The camry is getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger, not to mention uglier. That is what Americans want! So, i think his video should be shown to American buyers more than American manufacturers.

Unhooked

Anyone saw the new Bond movie? I would buy that Ford that 007 drives in a hearbeat. It looks very Euro with a hint of TL design

shaunv74

You mean the Aston?

mwc

Unhooked is most likely referring to the Ford Mondeo that makes an appearance early on in the movie.

shaunv74

I know. Just playing on the Ford owns Jaguar/Aston thing. It kinda looked like a Focus up front if I remember.

costello

I liked this quote the best from the article:

"GM has the highest market share, increasing over 2 percentage points from a year ago, so it apparently can't be accused of not making cars people want to buy either."

"GM also reported a 3.9 percent rise in August vehicle sales despite high gas prices and a supposedly slowing economy. And even though Toyota reported record sales that month, it couldn't match the non-record setting sales volume of Ford. GM's sales rose 17 percent in October from the year-ago month and Ford sales rose 8 percent the same period."

All maybe true, but apparently the author forgot the butt-load of incentives they were offering during that period to move their vehicles. I'm sure any car company can move product when they sell it for less than invoice...

Just take everything you read with a grain of salt as EVERYONE has a point of view. I'm not anti-American auto and they do make some nice cars, but Detroit still has a big perception problem to overcome.

Sephiroth

Every manufacturer offers incentives. Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Lamborghini, everyone except Ferrari and ultra exotics(Bugatti, McLaren, Pagani, etc).

Agree with the rest.

Razz1

Well the new Mustang station wagon will put a stake in Ford's heart.

Keef

whats the difference between a porcupine and a Porsche...

A porcupine has its ****** on the outside....