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I know it was just a rendering (that's why I said trolling). I do want a third pedal and it frustrates me that auto companies are removing this option even though the take rate [for MT] is constant. It's a cost savings.
What it translates to me - I'll wait and not buy a new car and buy a (manumatic like a Supra) once depreciation hits. Scr@#$ you auto companies.
I don't know, man. I wouldn't be so eager to buy a used Mk V Supra down the line.
It uses a lot of BMW parts. Keep this in mind. We will have to see reliability down the line(though I am skeptical, to say the least), but I am sure maintenance is not just like any other Toyota's. It's going to be just as over-engineered as a BMW.
Personally I would just buy a used Corvette(which also has MT) and call it a day. GM small block is a tried and true design, and if you like modding there is tons of aftermarket for it as well. I think you already know this, though.
I know the E-series BMWs have their reliability issues - but surprisingly about the same as a mid '00-10s Honda Accord - shock replacement at 150K, A/C issues (yes Honda I'm still p@ssed that you never recalled the 2005-2010 for compressor issues), power windows, etc. To me it was a wash. The F-series and now B-series it will be Turbos on top of that - I expect the 1.5L Honda "Tubro" to fail at some early 100K point as well since that's where the smaller diaplcement gets its 'powah'.
I know the E-series BMWs have their reliability issues - but surprisingly about the same as a mid '00-10s Honda Accord - shock replacement at 150K, A/C issues (yes Honda I'm still p@ssed that you never recalled the 2005-2010 for compressor issues), power windows, etc. To me it was a wash. The F-series and now B-series it will be Turbos on top of that - I expect the 1.5L Honda "Tubro" to fail at some early 100K point as well since that's where the smaller diaplcement gets its 'powah'.
Out of all the issues Accords have, these you mentioned are actually not all that common. 98~05 V6 Accord auto trans slipping or 08~12 V6 Accord VCM oil consumption are much more serious and common from what I have seen.
I have owned a V6 Accord auto before the 8 and now an I4 manual, both 08. I can't speak for shocks since neither of them have that high of mileage, but both of them have ice cold A/C and power windows work without a hitch. The I4 has a broken switch so the auto up didn't work on the driver's side. A junkyard switch fixed that.
And heh, how much does it cost to fix up a Honda versus a BMW? The latter is a lot more complex and harder to take apart, not to mention the cost of parts.
As for the last sentiment, that's why even as a ex rotary owner, I still believe in no replacement for displacement and I will pick an NA car as much as I can. My Accord is NA so nothing to worry about on that front. With turbos, you are adding more stress to a smaller piece of metal. You can do the physics.
That said, most people probably don't drive Accords like BMWs so I don't think the engine will be that bad. Only time will tell, though.
Anyway, pretty silly to compare an Accord to a BMW performance car, hence why I brought up the Corvette. Good performer but without all the headache as a BMW, plus IMO it looks cooler than BMW(especially with the growing size of the grille nowadays).
Last edited by UnknownJinX; 03-10-2020 at 12:26 PM.
The upcoming power boost on the 2021 or -2 Supra will be a good upgrade. I'm still in the need for at least 3 seats so these wonderful cars (718, Supra, Corvette) do not meet my needs right now. Having back seats and trunk space is a must - another reason I went with the RX-8. Heck if Mazda would put the inline 6 with Turbo in a new Mazda 3 (dare I say + MT) - they'd get a huge following.
The upcoming power boost on the 2021 or -2 Supra will be a good upgrade. I'm still in the need for at least 3 seats so these wonderful cars (718, Supra, Corvette) do not meet my needs right now. Having back seats and trunk space is a must - another reason I went with the RX-8. Heck if Mazda would put the inline 6 with Turbo in a new Mazda 3 (dare I say + MT) - they'd get a huge following.
If you are looking at a newer car and you like the Vette, give its little bro - the Camaro - a look.
I just picked mine up and there are things it does better than the C7. If you get them in stick shift, the 6-speed in Camaro SS is a ton better than the 7-speed in C7. The rear seats aren't spacious but they are there. The visibility will depend on the person but I personally find no issue with it whatsoever so don't let that discourage you. You will have to find out yourself.
The newer(2016+) Camaro SS is actually pretty impressive handling-wise. Supposedly GM used M4 as a performance benchmark for Camaro SS. The results show. Some are even arguing that it even beats the Vette in performance per buck - when new, a ZL1 costs about the same as a Grand Sport.
If you can find a used 2016+ SS, hop in and give it a try.
oh jeez, pushing for Camaro converts on his first day of ownership, in a Supra thread, on the RX8 forum ... that should be banned for life worthy right there.
BTW, I just remembered who it was that bought the new Supra on the forum. It was DannyR3.
Originally Posted by DannyR3
It's 18.5 lbs for the entire intake system. From throttle body to the plastic tray underneath the intake snorkel. Everything that came off the car.
I knew it felt heavier than 13 lbs lol.
I recently took delivery of a 2020 Supra. Haven't touched it yet. Still researching all the things. About to pull the trigger on some wheels though because the stock ones are HIDEOUS.
If you are looking at a newer car and you like the Vette, give its little bro - the Camaro - a look.
I just picked mine up and there are things it does better than the C7. If you get them in stick shift, the 6-speed in Camaro SS is a ton better than the 7-speed in C7. The rear seats aren't spacious but they are there. The visibility will depend on the person but I personally find no issue with it whatsoever so don't let that discourage you. You will have to find out yourself.
The newer(2016+) Camaro SS is actually pretty impressive handling-wise. Supposedly GM used M4 as a performance benchmark for Camaro SS. The results show. Some are even arguing that it even beats the Vette in performance per buck - when new, a ZL1 costs about the same as a Grand Sport.
If you can find a used 2016+ SS, hop in and give it a try.
The chassis on the new Camaros really is something special. When you consider how cheap you can pick them up now its an incredible performance bargain. Only gripe from me is GM's V8 doesn't really feel like a sports car engine to me.
The chassis on the new Camaros really is something special. When you consider how cheap you can pick them up now its an incredible performance bargain. Only gripe from me is GM's V8 doesn't really feel like a sports car engine to me.
Yeah, the LS/LT family engines are not very rev-happy for sure but at the same time, not a lot of modern turbo engines the LT1 competes with are particularly revvy, either, and at least there is no turbo lag on the LS/LT engine.
Mustang's DOHC setup will be better for revving. The newest Mustang with 3rd gen Coyote can rev to 7500 RPM, while the Shelby GT350 can rev to 8200 RPM. If you like RX-8's high redline, the Mustang's engine will feel closer in that regard. I personally specifically wanted to try something different, though.
In the end, it's just personal taste. Do you want to have more torque down-low or do you want to have an engine that's more eager to rev?
I was more talking about ponies in general, but yeah, should stay on topic.
If someone who has test-driven/owns one can chime in, I'd love to see some owner's perspective.
I don't think my local Toyota dealer has one but I haven't really checked, and around where I live I haven't seen one despite this being the sports car season.
Personally, I love the idea of the new Supra. I haven't had the chance to drive one yet, but the M2 is an absolute blast to drive. Imagining that experience boiled down into a smaller, lighter, more purpose built package is really appealing to me, if only it came with a manual.
I know its not a true Toyota with all of its BMW DNA but I'm ok with that. In this climate, Toyota was never going to build a brand new, dedicated sports car platform or a new inline 6 that can't be shared throughout their entire range, and BMW builds awesome inline 6's and sports car platforms.
Of course we all make fun of it, but I know that the chassis of the Supra is designed by Toyota so in stock form, it's a sports car versus Z4's more GT nature.
Originally Posted by Squidward1
Personally, I love the idea of the new Supra. I haven't had the chance to drive one yet, but the M2 is an absolute blast to drive. Imagining that experience boiled down into a smaller, lighter, more purpose built package is really appealing to me, if only it came with a manual.
I know its not a true Toyota with all of its BMW DNA but I'm ok with that. In this climate, Toyota was never going to build a brand new, dedicated sports car platform or a new inline 6 that can't be shared throughout their entire range, and BMW builds awesome inline 6's and sports car platforms.
Personally, I don't mind the engine sharing as long as Toyota can make it reliable. With economy of the scale in mind, you can't expect Toyota to R&D and manufacture an I6 dedicated for Supra(a low-volume sports car).
The manual trans thing is not just a Supra-only problem(*cough*C8*cough*). And if you really want one and Toyota refuses to offer one, it might get enough aftermarket demand down the line for a relatively affordable conversion kit/dropkey swap.
Where I think Toyota went lazy is the interior and infotainment. That's where they could have more liberty and use some components from their other products. BMW electronics can be a nightmare to deal with, and having used the BMW automatic shifter, I absolutely hate using one. Drove a rental X3 before and it kept telling me how to use it. I'd take a manual BMW over an auto one for this reason alone.
I read that article on R/T. That is a major test failure as I love to drive with my windows open and 'roof open. I did own an older Civic coupe that had the same issue. To me having a way to open the pressure relief vents that cars typically have in the trunk might help.
03-09-2020, 01:40 PM
