The End of Manual Shift?
10-31-2008, 06:00 PM
#27
Administrator
with an automated clutch manual you can still row the gears however you please with a tunnel mounted traditional shifter- the clutch operation is just handled by the computer. IF YOU WANT TO you can use the paddles.
10-31-2008, 06:06 PM
#29
an automated manual is a great gearbox. Probably not the cheap ones like GTR's and M3's at the moment but some real supercars have great paddles.
Having your hands on the steering wheel is an advantage but there are times when playing with your clutch and accelerator etc helps you bringing the car back on track.
As usual everything starts from exotic\expensive cars, then goes a bit down (bmw, nissan etc) and down and down 'till we see it on daily drivers.
For sure VW\Audi's etc DSG system sucks. I tried it on a very windy track and it was slow an uncomfortable as hell. Ferrari's latest gearbox is a different story so i bet that we'll have to wait some more time before having that technology on every car (like disk brakes vs drum brakes)
Having your hands on the steering wheel is an advantage but there are times when playing with your clutch and accelerator etc helps you bringing the car back on track.
As usual everything starts from exotic\expensive cars, then goes a bit down (bmw, nissan etc) and down and down 'till we see it on daily drivers.
For sure VW\Audi's etc DSG system sucks. I tried it on a very windy track and it was slow an uncomfortable as hell. Ferrari's latest gearbox is a different story so i bet that we'll have to wait some more time before having that technology on every car (like disk brakes vs drum brakes)
10-31-2008, 06:29 PM
#30
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pffft. You people are all wrong.
Hub mounted electric motors are the future.
Transmissions are legacy technology. Why would I want such a complex, antiquated system with drive shafts to balance, gears to grind, syncros to wear, clutches to burn up, and throwout bearings to fail; when we can just slap some magnets on the wheel itself and put a big old electromagnet in the center. No more unsprung weight, no drivetrain losses, no gears at all.
You people and your transmissions.... Luddites. All of you.
Hub mounted electric motors are the future.
Transmissions are legacy technology. Why would I want such a complex, antiquated system with drive shafts to balance, gears to grind, syncros to wear, clutches to burn up, and throwout bearings to fail; when we can just slap some magnets on the wheel itself and put a big old electromagnet in the center. No more unsprung weight, no drivetrain losses, no gears at all.
You people and your transmissions.... Luddites. All of you.
10-31-2008, 08:44 PM
#31
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I was going to disagree but it seems History is on your side.
I think shifting is one of the better jobs to hand off to a computer but I am one of the people who has grown up around AT. My next car (hopefully an 8) will be a MT because I want to experience driving MT and not for any other reason (unless the 8 is 04-05 and then i will have a couple more reasons (ports) to go for the MT.
I think shifting is one of the better jobs to hand off to a computer but I am one of the people who has grown up around AT. My next car (hopefully an 8) will be a MT because I want to experience driving MT and not for any other reason (unless the 8 is 04-05 and then i will have a couple more reasons (ports) to go for the MT.
10-31-2008, 11:16 PM
#32
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I love my 6mt, but I am going to embrace the future.
People tend to be change resistant. A lot of the so called "hardcore" auto enthusiasts cried and bitched when anti-lock brake, LSD, drive by wire came out about how much "analog feel" and "soul" these technologies took out of their experience. Similar to how we are complaining about going away from stick shift right now using the same argument and reasons. But eventually most of them came around.
Id gladly trade in my 6mt and the superior analog control for the advantages and convenience of the future high performance auto trannys. If you are really trying to be hardcore then you shouldn't be driving a rx8, you should be driving an AE86 corolla like in initial D :p
People tend to be change resistant. A lot of the so called "hardcore" auto enthusiasts cried and bitched when anti-lock brake, LSD, drive by wire came out about how much "analog feel" and "soul" these technologies took out of their experience. Similar to how we are complaining about going away from stick shift right now using the same argument and reasons. But eventually most of them came around.
Id gladly trade in my 6mt and the superior analog control for the advantages and convenience of the future high performance auto trannys. If you are really trying to be hardcore then you shouldn't be driving a rx8, you should be driving an AE86 corolla like in initial D :p
11-01-2008, 01:19 PM
#34
Administrator
pffft. You people are all wrong.
Hub mounted electric motors are the future.
Transmissions are legacy technology. Why would I want such a complex, antiquated system with drive shafts to balance, gears to grind, syncros to wear, clutches to burn up, and throwout bearings to fail; when we can just slap some magnets on the wheel itself and put a big old electromagnet in the center. No more unsprung weight, no drivetrain losses, no gears at all.
You people and your transmissions.... Luddites. All of you.
Hub mounted electric motors are the future.
Transmissions are legacy technology. Why would I want such a complex, antiquated system with drive shafts to balance, gears to grind, syncros to wear, clutches to burn up, and throwout bearings to fail; when we can just slap some magnets on the wheel itself and put a big old electromagnet in the center. No more unsprung weight, no drivetrain losses, no gears at all.
You people and your transmissions.... Luddites. All of you.
11-01-2008, 02:40 PM
#35
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That sad day is when I'll either just buy used or start taking the bus. I don't care about numbers or convenience, it is simply the way I enjoy driving.
1997 Dodge Dakota 5MT
1998 GMC Sonoma 5MT
1999 GMC Sierra 5MT
2000 Dodge Dakota 5MT
2001 Dodge Ram 5MT
2002 Saturn SL 5MT
2004 VW Golf TDI 5MT
2006 Mazda6 5MT
2007 Mazda Rx8 6MT
At least Mazda has been fairly faithful to purists. Well, except in the US. In the real-world they have a lot more options for their vehicles. I'll stick with this brand as long as they make the kind of cars I like to drive.
1997 Dodge Dakota 5MT
1998 GMC Sonoma 5MT
1999 GMC Sierra 5MT
2000 Dodge Dakota 5MT
2001 Dodge Ram 5MT
2002 Saturn SL 5MT
2004 VW Golf TDI 5MT
2006 Mazda6 5MT
2007 Mazda Rx8 6MT
At least Mazda has been fairly faithful to purists. Well, except in the US. In the real-world they have a lot more options for their vehicles. I'll stick with this brand as long as they make the kind of cars I like to drive.
11-02-2008, 04:03 PM
#36
say you what you want, but high performance cars are about high performance.
automated manual vs manual in the same car on the same track with the same driver is no comparison. automated manuals shift faster, therefore they spend less time coasting and more time accelerating. they are faster around a track.
automated manual vs manual in the same car on the same track with the same driver is no comparison. automated manuals shift faster, therefore they spend less time coasting and more time accelerating. they are faster around a track.
11-02-2008, 04:11 PM
#37
Automated Manual doesn't mean automatic. a dsg for instance is closer to an auto than to a manual and it is slower.
Anyway big OT here, we're talking about a very strange rx8 and i return to my point: why didn't mr. amemiya already build an rx8 capable to compete with his world famous fc\fd cars?
Anyway big OT here, we're talking about a very strange rx8 and i return to my point: why didn't mr. amemiya already build an rx8 capable to compete with his world famous fc\fd cars?
11-02-2008, 04:28 PM
#39
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=49
And consider that i talk on my own experience having driven dsg\smg\clutchless sequentials cars both on the road and on the track. In real life conditions the dsg can be ok on the road but you can't ask it too much.
Have a look at some "manual" vs manual evo X papers.
And consider that i talk on my own experience having driven dsg\smg\clutchless sequentials cars both on the road and on the track. In real life conditions the dsg can be ok on the road but you can't ask it too much.
Have a look at some "manual" vs manual evo X papers.
11-02-2008, 05:01 PM
#40
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It's more about the experience for me so I typically enjoy a manual a bit more. I've had very little experience with paddle shifters(Evo X and g37s) and while I can say they are more fun than a generic auto they still just don't give the same sense of enjoyment. Hell I drive an Rx8 so obviously I don't need the fastest car or even close to the most fuel efficent but the experience it gives is pretty hard to beat without spending some serious $$. I'll continue to buy a manual for as long as I can and hopefully the car industry will continue to cater towards my group atleast a little bit.
11-03-2008, 08:32 PM
#41
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but it does. a computer might shift in the middle of a turn when you ease off the gas a tiny bit. that will screw you. with MT you have complete control.
11-03-2008, 08:46 PM
#42
Umm, you're pretty completely wrong. Maybe the auto in the 8, or a camry would shift gears mid corner, but the type of auto transmission we're talking about here wouldn't do that unless you indicated to change a gear....or left it in grocery mode.
11-04-2008, 11:01 AM
#45
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Performance aside, there's something about manually controlling the engagement of the transmission to the engine that let's you feel one with the car. I cherish that feeling.
It's not unlike the reason you see a lot of NYC bicycle messengers ride direct-drive bicycles without gears, freewheels, or brakes. It's about becoming one with the machine.
Nice idea Zoom44 BTW.
It's not unlike the reason you see a lot of NYC bicycle messengers ride direct-drive bicycles without gears, freewheels, or brakes. It's about becoming one with the machine.
Nice idea Zoom44 BTW.
11-04-2008, 11:20 AM
#47
I've only owned MT's also, and love them. I've driven a VW with the DSG and wasn't all that impressed. The upshifts weren't that fast and the downshifts weren't smooth. But I did see the potential (even though I felt like I was playing Gran Turismo). When the lighting fast Ferrariesque transmissions trickle down to something I can afford maybe I'll give it a try, but I have a feeling I'll be driving an old fashioned manual for a long time.
11-04-2008, 11:33 AM
#48
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The upshifts weren't that fast and the downshifts weren't smooth. But I did see the potential (even though I felt like I was playing Gran Turismo). When the lighting fast Ferrariesque transmissions trickle down to something I can afford maybe I'll give it a try, but I have a feeling I'll be driving an old fashioned manual for a long time.