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To me the obvious also sticks out as the normal plug in EV MX-30 has a 35.5kwh with 355V Battery (these models are on sale in Australia now and only in Full model top of range trim for $70K AUD).
But the RE-V has same capacity Battery of 355V but half the kwh, this tells me that the RE Generator is supplying the other half, so I guess will either cycle on/off when down to say 60% capacity which would mean a running on time of hours, or more than likely RE will turn on (cycle) when Battery is at say 85 or 90%, plus what is the fuel tank capacity (gas) I am thinking 20-25 litres or 5.2 Gallons (possibly a little more)..
Plus the RE could cycle on if Driver is driving 'aggressively or with a load on board..?
Hate to think what the price of the RE-V will be down under, what $80K?
No my Kiwi friend not yet, Exterior AFIAK will be same as current MX-30, a few different paint jobs, badges and maybe grille, RE Gen no pics yet, I know RE sits on the Left Side of engine bay under Bonnet/Hood.
I think fuel tank in rear top of torsion beam?
Might check Mazda EPC later.
Just read the R-EV uses 2.5mm width apex seals.
Also, pictures of the rotors show old style balancing machining, and no cut-off seals, unlike Renesis rotors.
Last edited by kevink0000; 09-02-2023 at 06:01 AM.
zero overlap over and over, but will anyone listen any better in the future than they have in the past? 🤔
SAE PAPER 2021-04-06
Further Investigations into the Benefits and Challenges of Eliminating Port Overlap in Wankel Rotary Engines2021-01-0638
In a previous study it was shown that a production vehicle employing a Wankel rotary engine, the Mazda RX-8, was easily capable of meeting much more modern hydrocarbon emissions than it had been certified for. It was contended that this was mainly due to its provision of zero port overlap through its adoption of side intake and exhaust ports. In that earlier work a preliminary investigation was conducted to gauge the impact of adopting a zero overlap approach in a peripherally-ported Wankel engine, with a significant reduction in performance and fuel economy being found.
The present work builds on those initial studies by taking the engine from the vehicle and testing it on an engine dynamometer. The results show that the best fuel consumption of the engine is entirely in line with that of several proposed dedicated range extender engines, supporting the contention that the Wankel engine is an excellent candidate for that role. Also, continued 1-D modelling of the zero overlap peripherally-ported engine has shown that a potential route to regain lost performance and better fuel economy is to turbocompound the engine.
While compounding using turbomachinery provides one direction for further work, a new concept is proposed which uses the conventional three-flank Wankel rotor in its two-lobe housing to provide a positive displacement compounder to enable zero overlap anywhere in the device. This will allow the potential to configure large unobstructive ports with unimpeded timing. This novel concept is discussed in the paper.
"It’s hugely amusing and interesting to know how much attention and effort Mazda has put into making rotary work in new surroundings and it’s managed to inject another quirk into an already quirky crossover. Even so, we think Mazda’s managed to pull it off. That is with the proviso, however, that users treat the R-EV like a plug-in hybrid – it works best when the e-range is maximised and it’s plugged in whenever possible."
the average RX-8 owner would consider 167 HP to be plenty of poke, just add some speakers and a engine synched recording that is the equivalent of a 13b at 10,000 rpm at peak (with a beep signal of course) …
Well as you probably already know this DUMB and STUPID Folly into a Generator RE V MX-30 has been pulled and is not happening in USA or North America.
I said it back when and will say it now, Mazda is quickly following a patch to be swallowed up by Toyota and it is ALL their own MAKING.
Mazda,,,this FANTASTIC Car Company will die BECAUSE YOU DO NOT LISTED TO YOUR CUSTOMERS....EVER!.
YOU DO NOT KNOW BETTER THAN THOSE WHO WILL BUY YOUR PRODUCT.
YOU CAN NOT HAVE A JAPAN CENTRIC MANAGEMENT MAKING AND CALLING THE SHOTS IN USA
ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THE JAPAN MARKET WILL DO OR THINK.
**** THE DOMESTIC MARKET, THINK ABOUT WHAT THE OUTSIDE WORLD (away from Japan) WANTS, THINK LIKE TOYOTA DID 40 YEARS AGO!.
Toyota divorced itself from JDM.
Well as you probably already know this DUMB and STUPID Folly into a Generator RE V MX-30 has been pulled and is not happening in USA or North America.
I said it back when and will say it now, Mazda is quickly following a patch to be swallowed up by Toyota and it is ALL their own MAKING.
Mazda,,,this FANTASTIC Car Company will die BECAUSE YOU DO NOT LISTED TO YOUR CUSTOMERS....EVER!.
YOU DO NOT KNOW BETTER THAN THOSE WHO WILL BUY YOUR PRODUCT.
YOU CAN NOT HAVE A JAPAN CENTRIC MANAGEMENT MAKING AND CALLING THE SHOTS IN USA
ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THE JAPAN MARKET WILL DO OR THINK.
**** THE DOMESTIC MARKET, THINK ABOUT WHAT THE OUTSIDE WORLD (away from Japan) WANTS, THINK LIKE TOYOTA DID 40 YEARS AGO!.
Toyota divorced itself from JDM.
I work at a Mazda dealer in Canada right now, and the reason I have heard from my meetings, at least, has to do with the way regulation works in North America. That's why there is no hybrid MX-30 in our neck of the woods. I don't think it's necessarily the Japanese management's fault.
What I will say, though, is that yeah, MX-30 will need a lot more range to be competitive... I get the whole "smaller battery = less pollution" thing, at least from a market prospective, but honestly? Very few people buy BEV because they actually care about the environment. They buy one because electricity is cheaper than gas. It's as simple as that.
posted this on RX7Club the other day, would love to have the rotor w/seals housing insertion tooling
clearly it’s not designed for high rpm once you see the port sizing and lack of adjustable intake manifold system. It’s essentially a generator engine built for a specific purpose/operating rpm.
it could become 1.6L possibly, since Mazda previously had a pre-Renesis 13B generator engine, but it seems unlikely given what it might cost. Then there’s the “fooled me more than once, shame on us both” hyped up future car factor. Also not sure I’d want to be in the “hot seat” of a high output battery charging EV given the uncontrollable fire history to date of the current lesser EVs either.
The 13B generator version was actually the preferred engine that certain race builders used to convert into PP engines in the later years until being discontinued. I believe it was designed to run on propane.
.
I thought this interesting. I don't think this was ECU programming used in the RX8 launch, I don't recall reading about deliberate OMP output increase for break in.
I think this is another positive sign. Modern 2 stroke manufacturers all do this, and have done for a very long time. Forever, basically, even back in premix-only days. Ratio was increased for better break-in.
MX-30 R-EV High Engine Oil Consumption During Engine Break-in.
DESCRIPTION and CAUSE
The Rotary Engine (RE), by its mechanical nature, injects an optimum amount of oil into the combustion chamber to lubricate the rotor seals and consumes a small amount of engine oil.
In addition, during the engine break-in, like a former standard procedure for new cars, more-than-standard oil is necessary for the RE, which requires oil refills earlier than normal refill timing. As a result, the oil level may become lower than “L” level before the normal oil maintenance period and a warning message "Low oil level" is indicated in the instrument cluster with DTC P250F.
DTC: P250F:00 Engine oil system: Engine oil-level is too low.Please assemble the "Welcome Kit" and place it in the trunk before delivery.
►Contents of “Welcome Kit”
1. Welcome Kit bag; pre-kitted with following items
a. Engine oil (1 liter) b. funnel c. gloves d. tissue
2. Letter for the customer to explain about oil consumption You can find it in the Owner’s Manual as an inserted paper.
Each item above will be delivered to you together with the OE kit.
MX-30 R-EV High Engine Oil Consumption During Engine Break-in.
DESCRIPTION and CAUSE
The Rotary Engine (RE), by its mechanical nature, injects an optimum amount of oil into the combustion chamber to lubricate the rotor seals and consumes a small amount of engine oil.
In addition, during the engine break-in, like a former standard procedure for new cars, more-than-standard oil is necessary for the RE, which requires oil refills earlier than normal refill timing. As a result, the oil level may become lower than “L” level before the normal oil maintenance period and a warning message "Low oil level" is indicated in the instrument cluster with DTC P250F.
DTC: P250F:00 Engine oil system: Engine oil-level is too low.Please assemble the "Welcome Kit" and place it in the trunk before delivery.
►Contents of “Welcome Kit”
1. Welcome Kit bag; pre-kitted with following items
a. Engine oil (1 liter)
b. funnel
c. gloves
d. tissue
2. Letter for the customer to explain about oil consumption
You can find it in the Owner’s Manual as an inserted paper.
Each item above will be delivered to you together with the OE kit.
No need to place order.
I think this cements that rotaries can't really be something for an average consumer because, you know, most of them know nothing about how cars really work other than "it needs gas"(yes, even diesel cars use gas, right?) and maybe "it needs oil changes". Maybe, if the Just Rolled In videos of cars with 30k+ miles of sludg... "oil" is any indication.
Papers in the Owner's Manual don't do anything when most people don't RTFM.
From a dealer's perspective, this would also be a nightmare for the salesperson delivering the car. Imagine telling the customer their brand spanking new car needs regular oil checks like a 150k+ mile car. I know, more people should take care of their cars, but it just doesn't paint a great image for the dealership or the brand when it's a requirement for your average consumer to regularly check the oil. Enthusiasts would be more understanding for sure, but it's just a PR nightmare waiting to happen for your soccer mom's SUV, and Mazda already had a hard lesson with the MZR 2.3T CX-7 when it comes to that.
IMO, they should have just GM'd it and made the sump massive. Hold as much oil as it can so it can last until the next oil change. It's still not 100% foolproof, but it would be good for PR purposes - no need for customers to pay attention.
Last edited by UnknownJinX; 11-09-2023 at 02:09 PM.
We have people (soccer moms) sitting in their cars in the sun with the AC on (with the kids) for 45 minutes at SuperCharger sites so they can get home, regularly, and adding a quart of oil in the break-in period is a big deal?
What about explaining adding DEF regularly?
I could go on.
In the last 15 years, customer involvement in the operation of their transportation appliances has gotten to be more, not less.
If the salespeople in your dealership can't sell the quart of oil as a positive during the delivery of the car, you need better salespeople, period.
Not sure if you really believe all this, or just trying to be contentious at this point.
Last edited by kevink0000; 11-10-2023 at 11:26 AM.
I should hope there's an oil level light to remind you to top it up. If Mazda didn't think about that, that's a huge oversight. Also it's totally possible to get around without using the range extender at all, so ideally there's a computer message to tell you when oil 8s actually due regardless of total vehicle mileage.
Maybe I'll swing by the dealer and see how they pitch it. I know the all electric MX30 was a dud but for some reason there are 3 of them in my area, must be doing something right.
Okay, cement is a big word, but as I mentioned, I think they should have at least approached this problem a bit differently. Just make the sump massive. Make that stuff hold like 8~10 litres of oil. Sure, it's not that environmentally friendly if you want to argue that point, but it is definitely more foolproof, and in my book, avoiding engine damage is more environmentally friendly than having to change a bit more oil each change.
Originally Posted by kevink0000
We have people (soccer moms) sitting in their cars in the sun with the AC on (with the kids) for 45 minutes at SuperCharger sites so they can get home, regularly, and adding a quart of oil in the break-in period is a big deal?
Except it kinda is? Just a few of Just Rolled In videos and I am sure you will change your opinion on this quickly. The used engine market also exists for a reason.
People either don't bother checking the oil or put the wrong stuff in the wrong spot. Kitchen oil is the same as engine oil, right?
Originally Posted by kevink0000
What about explaining adding DEF regularly?
Diesel cars can still technically run without DEF, it's just that modern programming won't let it. A tank of DEF also lasts a long time, supposedly 20,000 km. Easy enough for the dealer/shop to refill it during oil changes.
This is my suggestion again. Let the service people touch it, not your average customer. We on the forum are the exception, not the norm.
Also, diesels are pretty much dead in passenger cars in North America after dieselgate so...
Originally Posted by kevink0000
In the last 15 years, customer involvement in the operation of their transportation appliances has gotten to be more, not less.
Citation needed. I am serious, this is a discussion, it's cool for you to prove me wrong if you have actual data to back this point up.
If the salespeople in your dealership can't sell the quart of oil as a positive during the delivery of the car, you need better salespeople, period.
The problem here isn't necessarily that it will be a problem for this car. You want the PR because you want returning customers. If they perceive this Mazda as poor quality and maintenance-heavy(it's not, but that's how people will see it), you probably won't see them again. As I said, this could damage the brand image, something Mazda has just slowly recovered from the Ford days.
Originally Posted by kevink0000
Not sure if you really believe all this, or just trying to be contentious at this point.
I am just trying to dissect it from a mass consumer point of view. Sorry that I am not able to conform to your echo chamber.
I will add a footnote here saying that my points apply at least to North American drivers, and in my knowledge, probably most Chinese drivers as well; labour is relatively cheap in China, so people are even less inclined to do anything themselves there. That's two of the largest car markets right here.
I should hope there's an oil level light to remind you to top it up. If Mazda didn't think about that, that's a huge oversight. Also it's totally possible to get around without using the range extender at all, so ideally there's a computer message to tell you when oil 8s actually due regardless of total vehicle mileage.
Maybe I'll swing by the dealer and see how they pitch it. I know the all electric MX30 was a dud but for some reason there are 3 of them in my area, must be doing something right.
They probably do, but I am just not confident that people will be able to follow that, assuming they care about the warning lights at all. In engineering, you do have to treat your users as idiots, and unfortunately, a lot of them actually are.
And again, we as (ex-)RX-8 owners would be understanding. Assuming people care about the warning lights, it's probably not going to paint a great image of Mazda in their minds when their new car is telling them that it needs engine oil. Very few people would be used to that.
That's why having the massive sump would just be the better solution in my eyes. Yes, GM did it for their oil-burning piston engines, but I think it's definitely more justified in a rotary's case.
09-22-2021, 09:44 PM
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