Does Mazda’s Rotary Have a Future? [C&D]
08-29-2010, 09:03 PM
#1
Does Mazda’s Rotary Have a Future? [C&D]
http://blog.caranddriver.com/does-ma...?utm_source=fe
Mazda’s recent technology forum was all about its new Sky family of inline-four diesel and gasoline engines, as well as a new six-speed automatic and chassis improvements to the next-gen Mazda 6. But we couldn’t help but ask Seita Kinai, senior managing executive officer of Mazda’s research and development, about the future of the rotary. After all, he’s the guy in control of it. “The rotary is very important for Mazda,” was Kinai-san’s not-so-surprising response. But he quickly added that its biggest issue is fuel economy—the RX-8’s current ratings are 16 mpg city and 22 highway, and it averaged a paltry 14 during our last comparison test. Without a 50-percent improvement or more, “there’s no future for the rotary engine,” he said. To achieve that, his team is currently working on increasing combustion efficiency; he wouldn’t elaborate further other than to say that these are basic, fundamental changes as seen in the Sky engines, as opposed to some new-tech breakthrough.
Of course we also asked about the possibility of turbocharging the rotary, last seen on the excellent, third-gen RX-7, to which Kanai-san replied, “turbocharging is one of the ways to improve output.” This is another area where the rotary has fallen way behind, its 232 hp considerably off the pace compared with the latest sports-car crop, such as the similarly priced, 332-hp Nissan 370Z.
Cleaning up its emissions is also on the to-do list; the RX-8 was recently dropped from Mazda’s European lineup for this reason. But Kanai-san made it sound as though this part of the equation is within reach as well.
Although firmly non-committal as to how likely it is that all of the above will happen, it seems like Kanai-san’s team is working full-speed ahead to keep Mazda’s unique rotary engine alive.
uh....... right.
Mazda’s recent technology forum was all about its new Sky family of inline-four diesel and gasoline engines, as well as a new six-speed automatic and chassis improvements to the next-gen Mazda 6. But we couldn’t help but ask Seita Kinai, senior managing executive officer of Mazda’s research and development, about the future of the rotary. After all, he’s the guy in control of it. “The rotary is very important for Mazda,” was Kinai-san’s not-so-surprising response. But he quickly added that its biggest issue is fuel economy—the RX-8’s current ratings are 16 mpg city and 22 highway, and it averaged a paltry 14 during our last comparison test. Without a 50-percent improvement or more, “there’s no future for the rotary engine,” he said. To achieve that, his team is currently working on increasing combustion efficiency; he wouldn’t elaborate further other than to say that these are basic, fundamental changes as seen in the Sky engines, as opposed to some new-tech breakthrough.
Of course we also asked about the possibility of turbocharging the rotary, last seen on the excellent, third-gen RX-7, to which Kanai-san replied, “turbocharging is one of the ways to improve output.” This is another area where the rotary has fallen way behind, its 232 hp considerably off the pace compared with the latest sports-car crop, such as the similarly priced, 332-hp Nissan 370Z.
Cleaning up its emissions is also on the to-do list; the RX-8 was recently dropped from Mazda’s European lineup for this reason. But Kanai-san made it sound as though this part of the equation is within reach as well.
Although firmly non-committal as to how likely it is that all of the above will happen, it seems like Kanai-san’s team is working full-speed ahead to keep Mazda’s unique rotary engine alive.
uh....... right.
08-29-2010, 11:06 PM
#7
Mazda is still not hugely popular in Japan. The only place where I've seen a noticeably higher rate of Mazda's is in Hiroshima, which really makes sense.
08-30-2010, 12:04 AM
#8
I don't know the history of the skyline
I agree that mazda's majority market is outside of japan, I also agree that an rx-9 is not the type of car that could be considered a economic success in a limited market
I think the rx-7 sales did cover the developmental cost of the new RX-8.
I can only speculate on what I know, I know that the rotary engine is more popular in japan, and Australia. I know the rx-7 sold successfully in japan til 2002, I know there was a huge rotary meet in japan, pictures provided by mazda247.com. I think japan is more lax on emissions then USA and Europe.
I am sure there is information that I am missing
my best guess is the rx-8 will still sell in japan after it has been pulled from the US, and European markets. mean while they will work on the next rotary design. similar to what happened to the FD to SE3. however I think emission **** is going to get worse faster then they can get the rotary's efficiency up. at some point they will release the rx-9 wherever it can pass emissions (my guess is Japan only). they will try to make up money, and after that it may die,
unless some kind of breakthrough happens
They're not exactly lax on emissions now, and a pretty significant portion of their market is outside of japan and that is not the type of car that could be considered a economic success developed in that limited of a market. A more japanese styled economy/compact type car is something that can sustain itself when limited to the japanese market, a well built sports car is not. The later years of the RX-7 didn't have to cover a bunch of developmental costs like a brand new design would require.
Mazda is still not hugely popular in Japan. The only place where I've seen a noticeably higher rate of Mazda's is in Hiroshima, which really makes sense.
Mazda is still not hugely popular in Japan. The only place where I've seen a noticeably higher rate of Mazda's is in Hiroshima, which really makes sense.
I agree that mazda's majority market is outside of japan, I also agree that an rx-9 is not the type of car that could be considered a economic success in a limited market
I think the rx-7 sales did cover the developmental cost of the new RX-8.
I can only speculate on what I know, I know that the rotary engine is more popular in japan, and Australia. I know the rx-7 sold successfully in japan til 2002, I know there was a huge rotary meet in japan, pictures provided by mazda247.com. I think japan is more lax on emissions then USA and Europe.
I am sure there is information that I am missing
my best guess is the rx-8 will still sell in japan after it has been pulled from the US, and European markets. mean while they will work on the next rotary design. similar to what happened to the FD to SE3. however I think emission **** is going to get worse faster then they can get the rotary's efficiency up. at some point they will release the rx-9 wherever it can pass emissions (my guess is Japan only). they will try to make up money, and after that it may die,
unless some kind of breakthrough happens
08-30-2010, 07:02 AM
#11
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ +1 Without doubt, that would theoretically be the way ahead. But as far as "Without a 50-percent improvement or more, there’s no future for the rotary engine” obstacle...unfortunately in a car anywhere near the size/weight of what we have today....that would akin to a miracle.
So let's see 16/22 -->+50% --> 24/33
--> them there is code words to the press for "The rotary is dead, long live the rotary!" ... unless we are actually talking 2000lb sports cars 
So let's see 16/22 -->+50% --> 24/33
--> them there is code words to the press for "The rotary is dead, long live the rotary!" ... unless we are actually talking 2000lb sports cars
09-08-2010, 09:20 AM
#14
Registered
I actually see the rotaries future coming in the form of a generator on series hybrids which are ultimately also the direction I see cars going in the future as well. Some may question the logic of using a fuel hungry engine for such an application but that's because they don't know what some other people do about the engine and that is that at a steady rpm and load, a rotary can be made more efficient than nearly every other engine. At a steady state rpm and load, such as what a generator may require, rotary engines have measured BSFC numbers of around .27 which is well less than half what it is in a street car on average and up there with the most efficient diesel engines in the world. This has also been measured by several groups including Mazda and NASA and was done before the current engine architecture was devised which may lower it even further. The irony is that I see the rotary engine being the engine of choice for future fuel efficiency in generator applications and it will do it in a smaller, lighter, package with fewer parts than any piston engine.
09-08-2010, 09:36 AM
#15
Extraordinary Engineering
Why do I have "Red Barchetta" playing in my head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAvQSkK8Z8U
We seem to be witnessing the beginning of the end of petrol fueled transportation.... Hang on, the ride's going to get bumpy
Funny about the Rotary tats
My GF says I should get a rotor tattoo over my heart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAvQSkK8Z8U
We seem to be witnessing the beginning of the end of petrol fueled transportation.... Hang on, the ride's going to get bumpy
Funny about the Rotary tats
My GF says I should get a rotor tattoo over my heart
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