digitalSniperX1

First, a good question. Generally, nothing is ideal as these equations. Within some tolerance, etc. they are good enough. And with a car's vertical motion, plenty good enough. We're not talking about having to control something at great speed over long distances and great precision.

These equations describe the system in a manner an engineer wants a spring to behave. Their design will be such that within some tolerance and limits, they will behave in this fashion.

If desired, non-linearities are designed into the spring, . Non-linearities include include multirate springs. In the above equation, k0 x becomes k0(x) x and the DE is non-linear.


In the case of standard leaf springs, there may be additional frictional components which are either constants or a function of speed (like your shock absorbers). The vette's spring is not a compound leaf spring though.

The leaf springs in the Corvette were used in part to add roll stiffness in conjunction to the function of a sping while saving weight. I believe they were also used (at one point) to save space (vertically).

So in that sense differing from your question, they do more than a standard spring and deviate from it.

BMonkey

He's got the words, but not the comprehension. I wonder why if his only disadvantage is the cost, no current cars like Ferrari, Zonda, Koenigsegg, Porsche, Bugatti, and no race cars are running them (including the factory vette race cars). Those millions of dollars for development must not be enough to figure out how to package a transverse leaf spring in a car. I guess those GM engineers must 'know' something that no other engineer in the world knows.

playdoh43

+1 if they are so great then the C6Rs shouldn't have to switch.

digitalSniperX1

Depth of your reasoning:

Ferrari Enzo has coil springs....Ford Pinto has coil springs....Ford Pinto rocks.

Horse drawn wagons have wheels...Ferrari Enzo has wheels.....Ferrari sucks.

Two squawking parrots.

Enough said.

playdoh43

hahaha, apprently you dont understand our reasoning because you are taking it totally out of context. I never said the corvette sucks, geez when some people have no argument they resort to insults

digitalSniperX1

To all parrots,

Please allow me to apologize.

playdoh43

nice, i was starting to get worried that you have issues its no way going through life sounding mad and insulting all th time bro

playdoh43

id like to make the argument on digitalsniperX1's side where people are putting way too much into the use of leaf vs coil springs, its stupid. I'm pretty sure GM can afford to put coil springs on the vette without effecting the cost of the car by any meaningful amount if they feel leaf springs are inadequate.

plus most of the complaint against the C6 so far is on the nervousness of the chasis rather than anything that bas to do with leaf springs.

digitalSniperX1

You're a nice guy. I'll play nice too

Monkey's play rough sometimes though.

Monkey should never try to belittle the "blue collar" man.
Monkey needs to learn to use words like "delusional" in the appropriate context.
Monkey gets spanked around a little.

Monkey doesn't have the capacity to understand a spanking though, so it's of little value.

No worries about my issues though. They're mine alone.

One issue I don't have is assigning what cars I like to being sophisticated.

Now, enough zealotry.

BMonkey

LOL, man you're great Sniper. The blue collar man deserves a little belittling when he starts talking about how the white collar man's car sucks and his blue collar car is such a smart choice.

Out of curiousity, where did I use the word 'delusional' in this thread?

And as for the spanking, I think that's all a matter of perspective, very similar to the corvette. You see the corvette as a legitimate sports car and well engineered. I see the corvette as a hunk of junk that is meant for people who just can't afford a high-end sports car. You see that I'm getting "spanked" and I see simpletons. It's all perspective.

playdoh43

damn if the corvette is a hunk of of junk for people who cant afford high end sports cars, what does that make the rx8? which cost half as much and is not even close in performance

BMonkey

A multi-purpose platform with a back seat and 4 doors?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

For "around" the same price, I would get a Cayman.

bang for buck I would get Rx-8 over Corvette, smooth revving, excellent cornering ability, better looking interior(vette's interior looks freaking cheap for a 40-70K car), fine call it 2 doors but it has 4 seats.

playdoh43

totally fine that people prefer other cars over the vett, but to call it a hunk of junk just shows one's ignorance, no different from the fanboys on the 350z, M3, and corvette forums who calls the rx8 a piece of sh*t thats all looks and no go.

BMonkey

Yup, me having a strong opinion about a car (and that's all calling it a "hunk of junk" is, an expression of an opinion, not an expression of fact) shows me to be ignorant.

playdoh43

yep, oppinions can be ignorant. **** people who thought Aryans are the master race, biggots who think black people are inferior.. those are oppinions too. ignorance does not require actions or facts. In most cases ignorance is pretty much based on strong negative oppinions. you are just as ignorant as the 350z and corvette fanboys who calls the rx8 a piece of trash

BMonkey

Yea...the 305z ROCKS! (aw he edited it to correct it, but this is what he originally posted)

On a more serious note, I don't think that me thinking the vette is a hunk of junk is the same as me being a racist and I don't think we should be turning this into such political views.

I don't like the vette, that's pretty obvious, but does that mean it has no purpose? Of course not. It's some of the cheapest dollar to horsepower amounts out there. In recent years however there has been a proliferation of corvette fans parading around how much better the vette is than exotic car (Insert Name Here). I don't agree with that but that's just the way things are here in America, they've never been able to get vette sales off the ground in Europe. So my opinions are strong, but they're just opinions, not political stances similar to the Axis powers of WWII...

playdoh43

like i said, its still ignorance to me. I dont think theres anything wrong with thinking the corvette is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. Its totally ok to not like the corvette also. However, calling it a "hunk of junk" is degrading and offensive, thus is a sign of your ignorance. You are obviously not as ignorant as the *****, but its still ignorance, and so are the fanboys on other forums who talk trash about the rx8. I was just point out that ignorance is usually based on opinions

playdoh43

The car enthusiast community can be a lot better of if people would stop being offensive and degrading toward other cars. Just a little FYI, the RX8 is unfortunately one of the most degraded and offended cars on major car forums. Unfortunately its always easy to dish out ignorant remarks

BMonkey

But the vette guys started it in their comparisons in american magazines in which the Z06 or regular vette almost always wins

devildog1679

Though I agree that it's not worth 400K I have to disagree about the handling and not being impressive. Not sure where you tested it but unless it was on a road course you have no idea what the car can do. I was privileged enough to get a ride around Road America from one of the NASA instructors in his Z06 and all I have to say is WOW! The car handled great, granted not as well as the 911 Turbo I rode in earlier in the day but not to far off. On the street you can't really get a good feel on how well it handles, on the track is where you find out. He did say that it takes a well skilled driver to handle the power of the Z06 around the track. I went for a ride with a intermediate driver that same day and he was way slower around the course and car didn't feel as planted. It comes down to the driver. The instructor took my car out for a drive and he said with an extra 100hp the car would be a dream. He loved the handling of the 8.

RotaryFiend

It's almost like mazda should've turbocharged it or something...

digitalSniperX1

"In the end, I haven't talked to anyone who wouldn't take an exotic over an american car like a ZR1 if price was taken out of the equation... Which is a lame reason to live in delusion".

As far as "packaging" goes...

(1) racing cars vs. street cars are bad comparisons. very different objectives. packaging (i.e. the total package) is different for each. That C6R would probably rattle your kidneys, the C6 wouldn't.
(2) I'm sure the spring selection is much larger for coils vs. leafs. If you want to change a spring coefficient, doing it would be much easier for coils vs. leafs.
(3) the leafs are not steel. they may not strong enough at the spring rates required for a racing car's spring coefficient.
(4) I don't know the rules for the cars, maybe suspension design is specified.

Finally, the leaf spring debate here is filled with non sequitur. Probabably the only reason it's continued use as a criticism is due to Clarkson's using it as a reason to trash the car.

Find something worth criticizing if you wish. Using the leaf springs is foolish and exposes your lack of consideration.

Now, enough said.

BMonkey

Oops, crappy thread search engine didn't show that use of delusional. It's not an incorrect usage of the word however unless you're just stating an opinion.

You should at least mention underbody aerodynamics and limited lowering capabilities with leaf springs. I know you think we're all just parroting Clarkson, but he's just a visible figurehead of what people who aren't vette fans have been saying all along. If you talk to car guys out on the street they aren't going to know who DigitalSniperX1 or BMonkey are, but if you say Clarkson it's going to carry more weight, ya know?

Final thought, if leaf springs are so great, why haven't they been implemented on other modern sports cars? Springs too expensive for $200k+ car? I think not. It must have been something else that has put the vette in the minority all this time...

digitalSniperX1

If you wish to lower a vette, get some leaf springs and do it. I'm guessing that's the main way to go about it.

Given some of Clarkson's comments, from chock full of hypebole to technical inaccuracies, his words should be used for entertainment purposes only. The man is also a svelte propagandist and is probably paid well by some manufacturers. Don't for a minute think this doesn't go on. Don't allow your naivety fool you into thinking this doesn't go on with him or others.

Stock vettes with no visible aero changes do well over 220mph. I don't think it's an issue. Also, those leaf springs show very little frontal cross sectional area, and I stated they do over 220mph and stay planted.

As far as suspension designs go..911's at one time used torsion bars. The specifics as to why we can discuss using knowlege of the design and conjecture. The specifics as to why they chose what they chose is known by them exclusively. Same with the corvette engineers.

Finally, only two manufacturers that I know of have produced cars that are supercar class AND daily drivers.

One is Porsche.
The other is Chevrolet.

An example of the impracticality of a Ferrari. Yesterday in the paper I saw a Ferrari, (don't recall which, 355???) for 66k. It was 9 years old, had 27,000 miles on it, and the man said he had just had it serviced.

The cost of the service was $20,000.

He said he was selling it "cheap".

At 20,000 dollars at 27kmiles, there is nothing cheap about it. In other words, it's not a daily driver. Getting it repaired, which is probably often, would be expensive and a major hassle to boot.