California ban gas ice car by 2035, UK by 2030.
08-24-2022, 01:39 PM
#1
77 cylinders, 4 rotors...
Thread Starter
California ban gas ice car by 2035, UK by 2030.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/go...limate-change/
Someday, the raw idiocy of these policies will be apparent to even the most casual observer. But as always, follow the money, even though this is becoming a bit more than that in my opinion.
Edited for brevity:
The plague swept the countryside and, almost just as suddenly as it had come, disappeared. Until July 1518, in Strasbourg, when a woman called Frau Troffea picked up the tune again and danced for days on end. Within a week, she was joined by 34 people; by the end of the month, the crowd had swelled to 400. If they’d been inmates in a Philippine prison, the whole thing would have been choreographed, set to “Thriller” ,but since this was the Middle Ages, they just died. Dozens perished, having literally danced themselves into heart attacks, strokes, and exhaustion. And, just as before, it just went away.
So what the hell happened? Historians, psychologists and scientists have tried to forensically get to the bottom of the dancing mystery. For a while, the prevailing theory was that it was a mass psychotic episode sparked by eating bread tainted by ergot, a mold that grows on the stalks of damp rye. When consumed, it can cause convulsions, shaking and delirium.
So Waller has a different theory—that these plagues were mass psychogenic illnesses, sparked by pious fear and depression. Both manias were preceded by periods of devastating famine, crop failures, dramatic floods, and all manner of Biblical catastrophe. Anxiety, fear, depression, and superstition—in particular, the belief that God was sending down plagues to persecute the guilty—made people susceptible to falling into this kind of involuntary trance state. And dancing plagues were the calling card of one St. Vitus, an early Christian martyr venerated with dance parties, meaning that the idea was already in the victims’ heads. All it took was one person to start it, and then everyone else followed.
Governor Newsom Announces California Will Phase Out Gasoline-Powered Cars & Drastically Reduce Demand for Fossil Fuel in California’s Fight Against Climate Change
Someday, the raw idiocy of these policies will be apparent to even the most casual observer. But as always, follow the money, even though this is becoming a bit more than that in my opinion.
Edited for brevity:
1. The Deadly Dancing Mania of the Middle Ages
In 1374, dozens of villages along the Rhine River were in the grips of a deadly plague—a dancing plague called choreomania. By the hundreds, villagers took to the streets leaping, jerking, and hopping to music no one else could hear. They barely ate or slept, and just danced, sometimes for days on end, until their bloodied feet could support them no more.The plague swept the countryside and, almost just as suddenly as it had come, disappeared. Until July 1518, in Strasbourg, when a woman called Frau Troffea picked up the tune again and danced for days on end. Within a week, she was joined by 34 people; by the end of the month, the crowd had swelled to 400. If they’d been inmates in a Philippine prison, the whole thing would have been choreographed, set to “Thriller” ,but since this was the Middle Ages, they just died. Dozens perished, having literally danced themselves into heart attacks, strokes, and exhaustion. And, just as before, it just went away.
So what the hell happened? Historians, psychologists and scientists have tried to forensically get to the bottom of the dancing mystery. For a while, the prevailing theory was that it was a mass psychotic episode sparked by eating bread tainted by ergot, a mold that grows on the stalks of damp rye. When consumed, it can cause convulsions, shaking and delirium.
So Waller has a different theory—that these plagues were mass psychogenic illnesses, sparked by pious fear and depression. Both manias were preceded by periods of devastating famine, crop failures, dramatic floods, and all manner of Biblical catastrophe. Anxiety, fear, depression, and superstition—in particular, the belief that God was sending down plagues to persecute the guilty—made people susceptible to falling into this kind of involuntary trance state. And dancing plagues were the calling card of one St. Vitus, an early Christian martyr venerated with dance parties, meaning that the idea was already in the victims’ heads. All it took was one person to start it, and then everyone else followed.
Last edited by kevink0000; 08-24-2022 at 01:42 PM.
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ASH8 (09-12-2022)
08-24-2022, 01:59 PM
#2
You gonna eat that?
iTrader: (1)
08-24-2022, 02:20 PM
#3
they can’t even keep the power on now, imagine what happens when everyone has to plug in
or make a mass evacuation to neighboring states due to some unexpected mega catastrophe
the people driving this kind of stupidity deserve to reap that which they sowed, but they’re going to drag millions of clueless sleepers just snoozing along with the flow down into the pit of fire with them.
.
or make a mass evacuation to neighboring states due to some unexpected mega catastrophe
the people driving this kind of stupidity deserve to reap that which they sowed, but they’re going to drag millions of clueless sleepers just snoozing along with the flow down into the pit of fire with them.
.
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kevink0000 (08-24-2022)
08-24-2022, 03:54 PM
#5
77 cylinders, 4 rotors...
Thread Starter
Have a listen to this re the grid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU
Its not just the grid. But that IS a very significant problem that remains to be solved.
It's also where all those additional daily MW will come from.
The people who know things, (corporations, some governments) know this is baloney, but it is good to milk for the time being until the next thing.
I love how the US gov just put an additional $8k profit per EV car in the manufacturer's pockets, from taxpayers.
They didn't wait 48hrs before announcing the car price increases from the EV credit. Coordinated? Nah!
Follow the money, fellas.
08-24-2022, 04:31 PM
#6
There are many arguments to be made, but I don't understand how money is one of them. Have you looked at oil companies lately? Every liter you put in your tank enriches ludicrously rich sheikhs, executives and lobbyists. Why would you insist on supporting that system for another 13 years? Never mind actual climate issues.
At least anyone can make electricity locally, you don't need the gris. You don't need a central energy supplier who can charge whatever they think you'll pay. And EV tech has come a long way in the last 13 years, no reason to expect it to not be more accessible in another 13.
At least anyone can make electricity locally, you don't need the gris. You don't need a central energy supplier who can charge whatever they think you'll pay. And EV tech has come a long way in the last 13 years, no reason to expect it to not be more accessible in another 13.
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kevink0000 (08-24-2022)
08-24-2022, 05:49 PM
#8
77 cylinders, 4 rotors...
Thread Starter
There are many arguments to be made, but I don't understand how money is one of them. Have you looked at oil companies lately? Every liter you put in your tank enriches ludicrously rich sheikhs, executives and lobbyists. Why would you insist on supporting that system for another 13 years? Never mind actual climate issues.
At least anyone can make electricity locally, you don't need the gris. You don't need a central energy supplier who can charge whatever they think you'll pay. And EV tech has come a long way in the last 13 years, no reason to expect it to not be more accessible in another 13.
At least anyone can make electricity locally, you don't need the gris. You don't need a central energy supplier who can charge whatever they think you'll pay. And EV tech has come a long way in the last 13 years, no reason to expect it to not be more accessible in another 13.
Plus, not every nation in the world is willing to jump off the cliff like the West seems to. It's one planet, right? Shouldn't all nations participate? There are so many cross currents with climate policy/philosophy/science/alarmism/religion, I could go on forever.
It's a wonderful thing to get people to firmly believe in a looming disaster in the future. It allows control and profit that would not exist otherwise. Follow the money.
And, remember, you are being lied to.
Last edited by kevink0000; 08-24-2022 at 06:13 PM.
08-24-2022, 09:04 PM
#9
I mention money, because, it is most definitely money driven. The climate lobby is one of the strongest in the world right now. Probably the very strongest, in certain Western nations. You are trading one system for another. One system is currently working, with admitted flaws (what doesn't have flaws?) one does not work yet, but requires massive economic sacrifice to even begin to implement, with zero guarantee of success ,and payback, or even a modicum of sustainability.
Plus, not every nation in the world is willing to jump off the cliff like the West seems to. It's one planet, right? Shouldn't all nations participate? There are so many cross currents with climate policy/philosophy/science/alarmism/religion, I could go on forever.
It's a wonderful thing to get people to firmly believe in a looming disaster in the future. It allows control and profit that would not exist otherwise. Follow the money.
And, remember, you are being lied to.
Plus, not every nation in the world is willing to jump off the cliff like the West seems to. It's one planet, right? Shouldn't all nations participate? There are so many cross currents with climate policy/philosophy/science/alarmism/religion, I could go on forever.
It's a wonderful thing to get people to firmly believe in a looming disaster in the future. It allows control and profit that would not exist otherwise. Follow the money.
And, remember, you are being lied to.
It's a strong lobby because there's a problem.
Is the oil lobby all above board and honest? Did they pay for the sources you're basing your opinions on?
Last edited by Loki; 08-24-2022 at 09:08 PM.
08-24-2022, 09:10 PM
#10
I've just had a solar system/battery backup installed. I did it mainly to see how good it was and what upsides/downsides there were, not so much as an 'Investment'. It's only been 8 months but I've been able to achieve/predict the following with it :
Zero energy bill ................ summer gains more than compensating for winter losses.
Excess capacity for 9 months/year .......... easily sufficient to charge an electric car for daily use.
And this in a city with comparatively low sunshine hours.
Downside is that you actually need to manage your consumption ... not to the point of any major inconvenience though.
The tech is already here IMO and we only need to be smart about how it is implemented to not only reduce emissions massively but actually save people that adopt the tech. some money (eventually)!
As far as saying 'We are being lied to' ........ how about the massive lies perpetrated by the oil industry to try slow down the introduction of this tech. ? Follow the money alright !
Zero energy bill ................ summer gains more than compensating for winter losses.
Excess capacity for 9 months/year .......... easily sufficient to charge an electric car for daily use.
And this in a city with comparatively low sunshine hours.
Downside is that you actually need to manage your consumption ... not to the point of any major inconvenience though.
The tech is already here IMO and we only need to be smart about how it is implemented to not only reduce emissions massively but actually save people that adopt the tech. some money (eventually)!
As far as saying 'We are being lied to' ........ how about the massive lies perpetrated by the oil industry to try slow down the introduction of this tech. ? Follow the money alright !
08-24-2022, 09:26 PM
#11
77 cylinders, 4 rotors...
Thread Starter
I've just had a solar system/battery backup installed. I did it mainly to see how good it was and what upsides/downsides there were, not so much as an 'Investment'. It's only been 8 months but I've been able to achieve/predict the following with it :
Zero energy bill ................ summer gains more than compensating for winter losses.
Excess capacity for 9 months/year .......... easily sufficient to charge an electric car for daily use.
And this in a city with comparatively low sunshine hours.
Downside is that you actually need to manage your consumption ... not to the point of any major inconvenience though.
The tech is already here IMO and we only need to be smart about how it is implemented to not only reduce emissions massively but actually save people that adopt the tech. some money (eventually)!
As far as saying 'We are being lied to' ........ how about the massive lies perpetrated by the oil industry to try slow down the introduction of this tech. ? Follow the money alright !
Zero energy bill ................ summer gains more than compensating for winter losses.
Excess capacity for 9 months/year .......... easily sufficient to charge an electric car for daily use.
And this in a city with comparatively low sunshine hours.
Downside is that you actually need to manage your consumption ... not to the point of any major inconvenience though.
The tech is already here IMO and we only need to be smart about how it is implemented to not only reduce emissions massively but actually save people that adopt the tech. some money (eventually)!
As far as saying 'We are being lied to' ........ how about the massive lies perpetrated by the oil industry to try slow down the introduction of this tech. ? Follow the money alright !
How much did it cost you, if you don't mind, and what is the lifespan?
I am not beholden to oil companies, believe me. Those guys promote their agenda and have done so for years. Not a fan.
But, climate concern agenda is a big business now, guys. A dispassionate eye would see this. They lie to you also. The greens are just as deceptive as the fossil industry, and since they are in favor, not as drastically regulated in most countries. When someone says "settled science" to you, you can trust whatever they are saying is actually neither.
Last edited by kevink0000; 08-24-2022 at 09:46 PM.
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ASH8 (08-25-2022)
08-24-2022, 09:31 PM
#12
77 cylinders, 4 rotors...
Thread Starter
I see a lot of assertions and 0 facts. 2 flaming turbines are not an argument against burning oil to move oil around the planet so that it can then be burned, and paying through the nose for the whole thing.
It's a strong lobby because there's a problem.
Is the oil lobby all above board and honest? Did they pay for the sources you're basing your opinions on?
It's a strong lobby because there's a problem.
Is the oil lobby all above board and honest? Did they pay for the sources you're basing your opinions on?
If my home computer was working right, I would post a picture of an oil spill to show my fairness.
It's not a strong lobby because its a problem. Its a strong lobby because of $$$. It is a created problem. Yes, I said it.
Who is the richest man in the world? If it was the CEO of an oil company, ah, things would be different then, wouldn't they?
I am just saying dont believe all they tell you. They are lying. Use your head and figure out the angles on your own.
Last edited by kevink0000; 08-24-2022 at 09:40 PM.
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200.mph (08-25-2022)
08-24-2022, 09:45 PM
#13
It cost me nz$25k for a 7kw solar system with a 6kw/hr battery. I can add another 6kw.hr of battery capacity for less than $3k ...which I may do if we end up getting an electric car.
I was spending $2500/year on power previously so the payback on todays electricity prices is around 10 years. Of course that goes down as prices increase.
Battery is warrantied for 10 years and has a 10,000 cycle life expectancy which roughly translates to 18yrs using 1.5 cycles per day as a realistic scenario.
Panels have a 25 year life expectancy.
I got zero help from the govt. to do it ... I think there needs to be big incentive schemes to get more people on board with this ...like low interest loans etc.
I was spending $2500/year on power previously so the payback on todays electricity prices is around 10 years. Of course that goes down as prices increase.
Battery is warrantied for 10 years and has a 10,000 cycle life expectancy which roughly translates to 18yrs using 1.5 cycles per day as a realistic scenario.
Panels have a 25 year life expectancy.
I got zero help from the govt. to do it ... I think there needs to be big incentive schemes to get more people on board with this ...like low interest loans etc.
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kevink0000 (08-24-2022)
08-24-2022, 09:49 PM
#14
77 cylinders, 4 rotors...
Thread Starter
It cost me nz$25k for a 7kw solar system with a 6kw/hr battery. I can add another 6kw.hr of battery capacity for less than $3k ...which I may do if we end up getting an electric car.
I was spending $2500/year on power previously so the payback on todays electricity prices is around 10 years. Of course that goes down as prices increase.
Battery is warrantied for 10 years and has a 10,000 cycle life expectancy which roughly translates to 18yrs using 1.5 cycles per day as a realistic scenario.
Panels have a 25 year life expectancy.
I got zero help from the govt. to do it ... I think there needs to be big incentive schemes to get more people on board with this ...like low interest loans etc.
I was spending $2500/year on power previously so the payback on todays electricity prices is around 10 years. Of course that goes down as prices increase.
Battery is warrantied for 10 years and has a 10,000 cycle life expectancy which roughly translates to 18yrs using 1.5 cycles per day as a realistic scenario.
Panels have a 25 year life expectancy.
I got zero help from the govt. to do it ... I think there needs to be big incentive schemes to get more people on board with this ...like low interest loans etc.
08-24-2022, 09:50 PM
#15
If we're talking about Musk he got rich on PayPal. Tesla is an interesting adventure, but it's far from his bread and butter. He also didn't invent CAFE, EPA or any of the european emissions legislature.
If we're talking about Putin or Saudi Sheikhs, or now dead dictators, then yes they were absolutely at one time or another the richest and made in oil.
I don't need to listen to "them", I have actual friends in climate science, not talking heads. There's no angles to figure out, we're already seeing the effects. Again, why would someone look the oil economy, climate science and energy dependence and say "yep I'm all in" AND try to convince you to ignore all of that because "they" are lying? Out of the kindness of their heart?
If we're talking about Putin or Saudi Sheikhs, or now dead dictators, then yes they were absolutely at one time or another the richest and made in oil.
I don't need to listen to "them", I have actual friends in climate science, not talking heads. There's no angles to figure out, we're already seeing the effects. Again, why would someone look the oil economy, climate science and energy dependence and say "yep I'm all in" AND try to convince you to ignore all of that because "they" are lying? Out of the kindness of their heart?
Last edited by Loki; 08-24-2022 at 09:54 PM.
Panels are Chinese.
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kevink0000 (08-25-2022)
08-24-2022, 10:43 PM
#18
A preface to my next comments. I'm all for looking at alternative and renewable energy sources, away from coal and oil.
However, I live in the state of South Australia, where 70% of our electricity on any given day is generated from renewable sources, such as solar and wind. When the conditions are right and the sun is shining, we can generate enough solar energy to meet 110% of our current electricty demands. Our government has invested heavily in renewable energy sources, is continuing to spend heavily, and is proud to spruik that we're a state that leads the world in this area...
But.... South Australia has the most expensive electricty out of all the states and territories in Australia. On average we pay 20% more than everyone else. So as consumers, apart from feeling 'good' that we're using predominantly renewable energies, it is costing us a lot more.
For the last ten years our government has been pushing residential home owners to install roof top solar systems, and provided subsidies to incentivise people to do so to stop the reliance on coal fired power stations. We also use to be paid, in credits, a fair amount for any excess solar energy we produced from our home solar systems, that was sent back to the grid to be used by others.
Fast forward 10 years and over 40% of homes in our state have solar panels fitted to their roofs. Now in Summer when the sun is shining the authorities turn off power to suburbs, as the electricty grid and infrastructure can't handle all the power that is generated from the home roof top solar panels. Encouraged and rewarded at one time to install home solar systems, now we have power disconected for hours at a time, unless we invest further in home batteries to provide our own power when the electricty is shut off. We use to be paid credits for the excess solar we generated, now we're being advised that that in the near future we will likley be charged per Kw of solar energy we send back to the grid. We've been advised also that our taxes are likely to increase significantly to fund the billions of dollars required to upgrade our states electricty infrastructure....
Some might say this is just typical teething problems of using alternative energy sources. But right now in our state we aren't living the 'green dream' that our politicians told us we would.
However, I live in the state of South Australia, where 70% of our electricity on any given day is generated from renewable sources, such as solar and wind. When the conditions are right and the sun is shining, we can generate enough solar energy to meet 110% of our current electricty demands. Our government has invested heavily in renewable energy sources, is continuing to spend heavily, and is proud to spruik that we're a state that leads the world in this area...
But.... South Australia has the most expensive electricty out of all the states and territories in Australia. On average we pay 20% more than everyone else. So as consumers, apart from feeling 'good' that we're using predominantly renewable energies, it is costing us a lot more.
For the last ten years our government has been pushing residential home owners to install roof top solar systems, and provided subsidies to incentivise people to do so to stop the reliance on coal fired power stations. We also use to be paid, in credits, a fair amount for any excess solar energy we produced from our home solar systems, that was sent back to the grid to be used by others.
Fast forward 10 years and over 40% of homes in our state have solar panels fitted to their roofs. Now in Summer when the sun is shining the authorities turn off power to suburbs, as the electricty grid and infrastructure can't handle all the power that is generated from the home roof top solar panels. Encouraged and rewarded at one time to install home solar systems, now we have power disconected for hours at a time, unless we invest further in home batteries to provide our own power when the electricty is shut off. We use to be paid credits for the excess solar we generated, now we're being advised that that in the near future we will likley be charged per Kw of solar energy we send back to the grid. We've been advised also that our taxes are likely to increase significantly to fund the billions of dollars required to upgrade our states electricty infrastructure....
Some might say this is just typical teething problems of using alternative energy sources. But right now in our state we aren't living the 'green dream' that our politicians told us we would.
Last edited by RX0004; 08-24-2022 at 10:46 PM.
08-24-2022, 11:11 PM
#19
Sounds like teething problems .... most of which should have been forseen. I had to get permission to install solar by the lines company ........ apparently there is a concern that capacity of the lines could be overwhelmed if everyone got solar at once, maybe they have learned from SA mistakes ...I hope so.
IMO ..your day in the sun (so to speak) will come eventually. I mean FFS ...you have SO much energy falling out of the sky in your country ...it has to be the solution long term!
Also: in my mind Solar power and batteries go hand in hand . Solar is way less effective without them.
Last edited by Brettus; 08-24-2022 at 11:19 PM.
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kevink0000 (08-25-2022)
08-25-2022, 01:31 AM
#20
Registered
A little food for thought. 15 years ago the first iPhone came out… it was expensive.. it was a tool not everyone thought they needed. Now pretty much everyone has a smart phone. A lot of changes happened within that timeframe… a lot. I myself am in IT.. I handle anything from physical equipment, networking, firewalls, hyper visor platforms, down to the OS. I also buildout the datacenter spaces or rooms this equipment resides in.. that being said.. the amount of growth we’ve had in tech in that timeframe has been incredible. Changing to the topic of the car.. the growth we’re going to see in the next 10 years is going to be incredible as well. And in 13 years the ban of new ICE cars doesn’t mean we’re going to ban the same of all classics. But the cars in 10 years are going to make it incredibly hard to justify having a gasoline powered car.
PS I also have worked in smart metering and a customer of ours was PG&E. So I also understand the “grid” is still on version 1.0. Companies like PG&E aren’t going to fix their problem of old tech until their hand is forced. And it’s their fault for not prioritizing redesigning over profits. All power companies are guilty of this. The old “the grid can’t handle it” is a cop out for not holding them accountable to prioritize development to do so.
What is gong to be exciting are the cars that are electric that have character. Right now I feel most
of them are dull and boring. It will be interesting to see cars that are fun to drive like the rx8.. but with an electric power plant. Our cars are terrible as it is with MPG.. having an electric version that gets the same mileage would be acceptable for most anyone here. It’s the time that it takes to charge is the main sticking point. In 10 years that problem will be solved. Hell elon lied to everyone with the battery replacement stunt for the model 3. That tech never came out for production use.. yet I see so many model 3’s in the wild.
PS I also have worked in smart metering and a customer of ours was PG&E. So I also understand the “grid” is still on version 1.0. Companies like PG&E aren’t going to fix their problem of old tech until their hand is forced. And it’s their fault for not prioritizing redesigning over profits. All power companies are guilty of this. The old “the grid can’t handle it” is a cop out for not holding them accountable to prioritize development to do so.
What is gong to be exciting are the cars that are electric that have character. Right now I feel most
of them are dull and boring. It will be interesting to see cars that are fun to drive like the rx8.. but with an electric power plant. Our cars are terrible as it is with MPG.. having an electric version that gets the same mileage would be acceptable for most anyone here. It’s the time that it takes to charge is the main sticking point. In 10 years that problem will be solved. Hell elon lied to everyone with the battery replacement stunt for the model 3. That tech never came out for production use.. yet I see so many model 3’s in the wild.
08-25-2022, 02:56 AM
#21
Super Moderator
they can’t even keep the power on now, imagine what happens when everyone has to plug in
or make a mass evacuation to neighboring states due to some unexpected mega catastrophe
the people driving this kind of stupidity deserve to reap that which they sowed, but they’re going to drag millions of clueless sleepers just snoozing along with the flow down into the pit of fire with them.
.
or make a mass evacuation to neighboring states due to some unexpected mega catastrophe
the people driving this kind of stupidity deserve to reap that which they sowed, but they’re going to drag millions of clueless sleepers just snoozing along with the flow down into the pit of fire with them.
.
It is unbelievable that bureaucrats who advise these people in power (politicians) have NOT GOT A F*CKING CLUE on how anything really works or
runs, how a IC Engine works and the fuels they use, todays ICE are the most efficient and give the best bang for the buck than ANY other power source per litre/gallon including EV.
Let alone the convenience factor, Gasoline powered car 500 miles in < 3 minutes (a tank fill) or 500 miles in 6 hours (a battery re-charge), to just ban or change a fuel source within a small time frame is nonsense.
Newsom has also banned 2 stroke Leaf Blowers, domestic Lawnmowers, and large ride on field mowers, replaced by Power Pack units that have a minimal battery life of < 5 years.
How about they let the market and the consumer decide.
DONT get started on the Climate Change chargers.
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08-25-2022, 03:20 AM
#22
Super Moderator
Yes during the day all of our power use comes from solar but at night (solar does not work and if wind does not blow) we import power from Eastern State (Victoria) through a long extension cord (interconnector) which power is generated from coal fired power station (real base load).
South Australia (SA) also has the biggest battery in the world 150MW
https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/
But if there was a total blackout it would only power the State for 10 minutes.
08-25-2022, 03:36 AM
#23
Didn't think that could be correct so did a quick search .............
https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2RS1M3
https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/1977-coming-ice-age-time-magazine-cover-is-a-fake/
https://apnews.com/article/archive-f...ing-5755221200
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/05/manipulated-time-cover-on-climate-recirculates/
https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2RS1M3
https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/1977-coming-ice-age-time-magazine-cover-is-a-fake/
https://apnews.com/article/archive-f...ing-5755221200
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/05/manipulated-time-cover-on-climate-recirculates/
Last edited by Brettus; 08-25-2022 at 03:42 AM.
08-25-2022, 03:48 AM
#24
Super Moderator
Must be fake too...in 1978.
08-25-2022, 05:01 AM
#25
Well I'm glad you agree the Time cover was faked. The video seems legit . Basically exploring the possibility that there will soon (relatively) be another ice age based on the cycles of temp change over millions of years ...plus the fact that it was a cold winter that year LOL .