Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Thing is , the BRZ is destined to be one of the most modified cars ever . Unlike the RX8 it will get huge after-market support .Also , Unlike the 8 , there will be turbo kits come out for it that actually work !

YaXMaN

It freaks me out a bit to see some of the RX8 guys jumping on the hater bandwagon for the BRZ/FR-S. Wow.

Collectively, there's been so much effort expended by the RX8 establishment to evangelize the advantages of a finely tuned, light weight, albeit underpowered sports car. Now that the RX8 has reached the end of its production, why isn't the RX8 community more empathetic to the trials and tribulations this "new kid on the block" is going to have to endure?

Spin9k

I'd say the reason is that we've all "Been there, experienced that.", starting in 2003 and the continuing and never-ending drumbeat of progress and critisizm has been getting worse over the ensuing decade culminating with the euthanizing of the RX-8.

Now the FR-S/BRZ is here and, seemingly, surprisingly, it's almost if no 'real' progress has been made at makeing a 'better' or 'faster' or 'more advanced' sports car. This is just a redo of what the RX-8 had (actually a bit less practical), and failed with.

In short, many people here are looking for the sub-$30K, 2600 lbs, 250-300HP sports car that advanced trechnolgy SHOULD (one would think) be able to come up with after nearly a decade of innovation and cost improvements.

But no - we have the FR-S/BRZ and little, if any, reason to get excited and go out and plunk down $$$ for one. At least I can't see any benefit and so.....

Flashwing

To be honest, the RX8 actually enjoys a fair amount of aftermarket support despite the niche market the car was aimed for.

I have watched in fascination as the aftermarket and the automotive media have slobbered all over this car. While I bet the handling features are nice, I can't ignore the irony that the RX8 has been trashed for having the very features this car is promoting.

Remember that similar enthusiastic behavior was seen with the Genesis Coupe when it came out. It fizzled off after a while.

We shall see how this car performs once plenty of people have it and the car has been put through its paces.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I bit incorrect, FRS shock/spring selection is more targeted toward oversteer/drifting, the BRZ's shock/spring selection is targeted more for balance

'Stiffer' and 'softer' in relation to the other.

+1 irony is right.

Bamsterman

I see a lot of us 8 owners saying that this car is going to be a flop. And that its basically the same as the 8 and no improvements have been made. You really don't see any improvements? I, of course, haven't driven the BRZ/FR-S, but it'll get better MPG, making it a better daily. And with the fact that gas prices have already gone up $2/gallon since I bought my 8 (less than a year) more MPG captures my interest! And perhaps an engine that I won't have to worry about it failing as much would be nice. As mentioned before, a properly working turbo kit would also be nice

Flashwing

I'm not saying it will be a flop but the media orgasm over the car will probably fade a bit. While the engine might not fail there is a growing engineering trend of the manufacturers to build engines that perform right up to their wanted specifications. The moment you try to extract more power stuff breaks.

Gone are the days of over-engineered motors that are de-tuned from the factory.

I'm sure the car will enjoy some success and it will probably be a decent performer for the money. My point was the on-paper specs of the car put it at or slightly behind the RX8 which has often been blasted for a lack of performance.

Better MPG and better engine reliability are no doubt part of the package. That said, first year vehicles often see a lot of problems so we'll see how that shakes out.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The flat 4 has a very checkered history too, and this is a brand new variation with a complicated direct injection system and high compression.

There is going to be problems. The question is all around how they handle the customer PR.

I like the BRZ, I like that a new lightweight rwd sportscar was made. The climbing weight and harsher engine feel keeps me from getting one, but I still like it. Just be realistic about expectations on reliability. It's going to take a couple years for the issues to surface. Though 'failures' are more likely to be immediately catastrophic, rather than the slow decline of a rotary.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i kinda like the idea of this car but I think they made a mistake making 2 brands that are alike.
It does have a very high compression ratio for forced induction and I think that was one reason that the speed version was only tweaked and not turbo'ed.
Its an ok car, ok price, but nothing to get all excited about.
One thing though Mazda better watch out for--the miata all of a sudden---may end up fair game and loose out.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

More people buy a Miata for reasons that have nothing to do with raw performance than those that do. The Miata isn't going anywhere. If anything, just a bit of lost market share.


Case in point:
I ended up opting for the $32,000 167hp 2,500lb proven Miata PRHT, over a $25,400 200hp 2,800lb completely unknown BRZ coupe.

$6,600 and -33hp is worth gaining -300lbs, convertible, proven highly developed chassis. Add $5,000 for 230-250rwhp safely, perfectly integrated, with the oem ecu, block, and supporting components.

Just waiting for my house to sell before I pick up the new Miata.

don_peppino24

iTrader: (1)

will definately get this is my 8 dies. or if i get some extra cash my 8 will be dedicated to the track and brz for everyday driving

Bladecutter

One thing that the BRZ/FRS does that the RX-8 does not that the aftermarket tuning companies love is an unlocked ECU.

The RX-8 has had 1 company successfully make adjustments to the fueling maps that have allowed people to make changes the First Gen of RX-8's only. The second gen of RX-8's was so locked down, no company wants to touch the ECU, blaming economics as their reason, which simply sounds ridiculous.

So, the new lighter, smaller, cars will get a much wider ranging aftermarket support because the manufacturers don't mind letting people tweak their cars.

The RX-8 would have done better had they not shot its reliability in the foot right out the gate back in '04. The RX-8 would have done better had they improved fuel economy in '09 after they released the Series II cars.

Lets hope the car that comes out in a couple of years will be better than the RX-8. No matter how nice the BRZ and FRS are, you're still only driving either a Subaru or a Scion.

BC.