Rhawb

Rude dealers dominate Mitsubishi, it's the norm rather than the exception, which is why I have no interest in ever looking at their product. Sure the Evo might be mildly exciting, but I'll take an STi any day because they actually honor their warranties. Plus I have no interest in paying $30k for a quick econobox. Sure the Evo is fast, but it doesn't look good doing it and it doesn't make me feel like my $30k actually went somewhere. So, with that, the Evo is out.

So assume that maybe I get dealt a pretty solid case of brain damage and I want an FWD sports car for some asinine reason. I might look at the Eclipse, but I'm 99% sure I'll end up with the SRT-4 since is does about everything better even though it's one of the only cars to beat out the new Eclipse on uglyness. Either way, in my mind, FWD + Sports car = lame.

Oh, and I'm not compensating for owning a slow car. At least my car is fun to drive and doesn't handle like a pig. Have you seen what the new Eclipse tips the scales at?

JanSolo

I will grant you that the interior of the Evo is definitely low brow Lancer quality, but as far as handling goes, the Evo outshines the RX8 in almost every way I can think of. AWD obviously means it is going to grip fantastically in the corners at speed, the tires on the Evo are much stickier and wider than the RX8s. The Evo exemplifies go kart like hanlding. The RX8 is a very nice car and I absolutely love mine, but if I was going to a track like Streets of Willow with lots of fast and technical twisties or even the drag strip, the Evo would be my car of choice.

I would absolutely recommend that you drive an Evo before passing any judgement on it's handling prowess or lack thereof.

Rhawb

It's true that no company will bend over backwards to cover abuse issues and I don't expect them to. My main beef is with Mitsubishi actively searching the internet for autocross results that contain Evos and then proceeding to void their warranties. In all honesty, I could cause FAR more damage to a car in about twenty minutes than I would cause over the duration of several autocross events. Mitsu would be none the wiser because "Rob tromped on his car in the Target parking lot" is not likely to get posted on the internet and even if it was, I doubt that'd be something they search for. On top of all that, they shouldn't be advertising the Evo as a road-going racecar if they aren't expecting their customers to go and wring it out every once in a while. That's just stupid.

JanSolo

I've heard that rumor before about Mitsubishi scouring the net for people racing their Evos. In fact, Mitsubishi heard about this rumor as well and actually posted something on their web site specifically stating they in fact did not do this. Mitsu stated that they have no person pouring over web pages, looking for proof of abuse and modification just to void warranties. But - they never said either way if they did or did not have an automated system doing searches for people "abusing" their cars.

And back to Subaru and warranty claims for a moment. When my wife bought her 2004 WRX, it came with this free membership to the SCCA. Great! We love free things. Unfortunately, if you use this membership and actually participate in an SCCA event with your WRX, well there goes your warranty.

Steiner

That dealership is run by morons for 2 reasons...

1.) That promotion is retarded. What do they expect?
2.) Treating you the way they did is very bad prospecting and totally unethical.

Speaking of morons. If an Evo or STi falls of a particular turn then your RX-8 would do a cartweel off the road while trying to take it. Besides being more powerful, they're also better handling cars.

Disclaimer: This has been fact, if you don't like it or simply can't wrap your brain around it, please reread it.

TODreamer

~sigh~

Here we go again

Rhawb

Rear wheel drive is more fun. I don't care what you say, understeer still sucks. I don't give a damn if it's faster, that's why I bought the RX8. It's more fun to drive and it looks a hell of a lot better. Sorry, back to the bridge.

Steiner

I think taking 1st place in an autoX event behind the wheel of an Evo would trump "more fun to drive" and "looks a hell of a lot better". RWD is nice until you've experienced an AWD power slide. Fun is relative...especially if you don't or haven't owned both cars...so I'll defer to JanSolo's opinion on that.

Rhawb

I've driven an AWD A4 and a WRX. Neither of them impressed me any more than the 8. I really don't care about coming in first at an autocross, I'd rather enjoy driving my car more every day than one day a month.

DARKMAZ8

so why are the fastest cars rwd?

JanSolo

Having owned a WRX and driven an A4 many times, I agree - those cars are not very impressive. The WRX has a bus like steering wheels, loads of understeer, a laggy turbo and the factory tune loves to pull timing in the name of engine longevity.

On the other hand, the Evo has a very peaky powerband, it does indeed have understeer, but it nowhere compares to the sheer amount present in the WRX.

ANYHOW, before you go off panning AWD as boring and no fun, you should try to take some time out of your life to test drive the Evo. It is a sharp razor of a car versus the dull knife that is the WRX and family car that is the A4.

JanSolo

The Evo does have a mere 2.0 liter engine, ya know. Given it's limited displacement, it does pretty decently. People are in the 9s in the 1/4 mile with the Evo. Check out www.dynoflash.com and www.turbotrix.com, both of which have very fast Evos.

But stock for stock, if we were to compare 1/4 mile times, the Evo does very well versus RWD cars like the GTO, Dodge Charger, Mustang GT, RX8 and 350z. Where it does get it's *** handed is against cars like the Corvette and Viper.

DARKMAZ8

I am not talking about the evo.

The fastest cars in the world are rwd. Why?

Rotarian_SC

I think his point is more like, why are Enzo (and other Ferarris) and McLaren F1 and Carerra GT and Zonda and Koenigsegg CC and NSX etc. RWD.

RWD does have a universal advantage in lighter weight, and less moving parts. AWD is not the end all suspension (like salesmen have tried to tell me), but the handling just depends on the setup and system from car to car. I don't think you could disgregard the handling on the Evo just because it's AWD though, but some people just have a personal preference for how a RWD car handles.

JanSolo

Because they wanted to design a car that can ultimately go fast in a straight line? Not being part of the engineering design team (or marketing team for that matter), I could only venture a guess as to why they specifically chose RWD for their cars. Of course, we also wouldn't be sure why Lamborghini chose an AWD platform for some of their cars.

Steiner

I don't know if that's true. Isn't Audi's LeMans car AWD. Same with Mercedes' LeMans car. I've also seen a video of a 245mph Nissan Skyline. I know BTCC banned AWD because it was deemed an unfair advantage and SCCA banned AWD in the 80's when 350hp Audis were abusing 500hp Camaros. Are you talking about "fastest" exotics? Lamborghini, Porsche and Jaguar all sell $100k AWD supercars IIRC. Then of course there's the Nissan Skyline, Mitsubishi 3000GT, Evo, STi and a whole bunch of DSM pocket rockets still running 10 second times at the strip. Generally speaking AWD cars are purpose built for a balance of power and handling...not 1/4 mile times like the SVT Cobra or Camaro SS.

Sigma

If you mean "fastest" as in Top Speed they are RWD because there is less drivetrain loss and significantly less weight. If you're going for land speed records RWD is the way to go. Hell FWD might even work just as good if you're just going to Bonneville.

If you mean "fastest" in terms of actual racing, there are just about as many supercar exotics and various race cars that are AWD as RWD.

Rotarian_SC

A NSX-R will eat up a Lambo on a racing circuit. There's even a Best Motoring Video on it. There are several other prominent cars with AWD like some Porsches, and the GT2/3 might, the old Skyline GTR, and the S4. Why would they have AWD, because it helps to put down the large amount of power from the engines more easily. You can make a RWD platform handle just as good, if not better though, and I don't think many of the companies want to have to pay for the extra cost and weight of an AWD system. A RWD setup also gives a more traditional feel, because generally it's easier to reel back in after a wheel breaks traction.

For the Evo, many people love the classic feel of a boosted engine + AWD, like the R32, WRX, older S4, etc .

Steiner

A more traditional feel if you're used to good handling RWD cars. Most of the professional reviews of the Evo and STi praise these cars for how easy it is for even the most amateurish of drivers to drive at or near the limit. With RWD it takes a little more skill. To an extent, AWD performance cars are basically stab and steer.

For example, my buddy sold his Acura RSX-S for an Evo MR and won his class the next weekend in autoX. The car had less than 1000 miles on it and he had maybe, at the most, 20 hours behind the wheel. It took him more than a year to finish in the top 5 with his Acura, but it took him less than a week to do the same with the Evo.

Rhawb

So a benefit to AWD cars is that you don't actually have to be a good driver to get respect for beating people?

That sounds kind of weak to me. Just rewards people for being complacent with their driving. Boooooooring.

Steiner

Has nothing to do with complacency. It's about pushing the car to its limits and getting results. That's what gets respect IMHO.

DARKMAZ8

IMO I look at say the enzo,carrera gt, macleren F1, saleen s7, corvette, viper, zonda, lotus, ect.,ect. all are rwd. I'd suspect that if awd was better than at least ferrari would be all over that idea. It's not like any of these cars don't have the budget for it. I'm not just talking about 1/4 mile times either.

RX8SpdDmn

Actually, its funny that you metion the Porsche GT2 and GT3 because they are both RWD! The 911 Turbo is AWD, yes, but the faster GT2 has a bump in power/handling/etc and is RWD. The GT3 is naturally aspirated, and RWD, as well. Isn't it funny how Porsche's 3 fastest models are all RWD?

It's because AWD sucks for anything but rally. It's better than Wrong-Wheel-Drive (fwd), but no match for the fun and performance potential of RWD.

khtm

Wow, that's a terrible example. Your "buddy" was using a slow FWD car that was never meant for autoX and traded it in for a car that shines at it. Of course he's gonna do a lot better.

therm8

That and all the driver's skill he gained in the Acura transfers to any car he drives.