XeRo

Anybody that will pay $10,000 for a watch is a f'in MORON...get a life..

Red Devil

Never liked the Mustang. I've always been on the GM side of that debate. That said, I don't really have much of a problem with them. And I think the things they've done for their subsidiaries has been beneficial for all parties involved.

To stir the pot, though, on why some people have issues with Ford:
- They've been the subject of numerous allegations over loan scandals and defrauding the public through their company called the Associates. Was, or is, it true? I don't believe Ford even owns the Associates anymore. So I have no idea and haven't heard about that scandal in years. If there were court rulings in favor of Ford or settlements against I'm not really sure.
- Allegations have floated around that Ford, himself, was a **** sympathizer. I guess depending on your background this may hit close to home.
- The Firestone tire scandal was another one. Did anyone ever watch those Senate hearings? Ford didn't look too good up there in comparison to Firestone. Especially the part where the head of Firestone near begged on his hands and knees for the Gov to perform an independent test to verify their Wilderness A/T tires.

Personally, I can't substantiate the first claim, so it doesn't bother me. If Ford was a **** sympathizer, that has no bearing on the current company and the people that work for them - times and companies change. I've had Firestone tires, and like near all of that population had zero issues - at the same time I've never owned a Ford.

Spin9k

These two little factoids struck me as so typical of my over-riding impression of Detroit's big 3 - CHEAP - damn the ultimate cost.

One case, they make it once and use it over and over ... and over.... and over. Fitness for purpose be damned... parts bin design at its best ... the goal is to maximize part production .. minimize design and production cost ...

Second case, part of the 1st actually, but a variation. Purity of design doesn't exist. Reducing cost is again the only goal. Sure maybe only 10% of the potential lobotimized drivers that they can get in the showroom desire a manual over a nameplate only... but damn they won't provide it. "**** on you enthusiast is the message "... it's really a fake. Buy the auto or walk ... we don't CARE!"

The end result is to convey an impression of robotizied, clone-like souless product. Car as appliance. Great for fleet/rental car sales (which Detroit has always depended on), but bad for customers ever being able to develop an affliction, a craving... and so brand/model loyalty is caput... and car-love cannot exist.

Postscript: The sad fact is this is NOT always the case or even true for these guys- but I've experienced this marketing tone from them for so long - decades in fact - that I now take it as a devine TRUTH - and can't break that impression. Result of this is I've only owned two 'big'-3 cars in 40 years. The first was an original Fix Or Replace Daily (FORD) '65 Galaxy 500 and I didn't recover from that fiasco until THIS year when (as an appliance) I bought a PT Crusier. And it is nice, but still crude compared to Japanese vehicles. No car love for them from me.

snizzle

Ford has had some of the same issues that GM has had and that Chrysler has corrected. Mainly, boring designs and percieved quality. The bread and butter cars became the the majority of their focus for a while which makes sense for the penny pushers under hard times. Chrysler infused excitement into their lineup with the Hemi campaign and cars like the 300 and the Charger. GM is trying to do the same with the SS lineup at Chevy, the GXP lineup at Pontiac, and the V-Series at Caddy. Admittedly, some of their attempts have been flawed but their trying. These cars get people excited about the nameplates and into the showrooms regardless of what they ultimately buy. GM is still doing poorly but they've obviously got more issues that simply boring designs. GM and Ford have fallen into many of the same traps. Toyota doesn't have much excitement in their lineup BUT like Honda the public knows the quality is there.

Just my take on things.....

rodrigo67

The problem with ford is that thier cars do not stand out in any catagory. In a tight marketplace where the consumer has so many choices, you have to do at least one thing better then anyone else.

If someone is looking for a reliable car that will not see the shop much, they look at toyota's and honda's.

If they are looking for something that may break down but don't want to pay out of pocket, they will buy a kia or a hyundai which come with 10 year warrenties.

If they are looking for a cheap basic transport car they look at kia, hyundai, suzuki.

If they are looking for something different they look at dodge chrysler.

If they want classy, they look at lexus, acura, merc, bmw, infinity.

If they want something that handles, they look at jap or european cars.

If they want a muscle car they may look at mustangs, but you also have DC hemi's and nissan's 350, and GM products to compete.

If they are looking to impress, european, highend jap, and caddy's come to mind.

If you want an AWD you look at subby or an Evo.

If they are looking for an entry level sports car, you can't beat a SRT4 for the price.

If you are looking for a top sports car, a vette gives you more bang for the buck then almost anything else.

Other then a mustang (GT only), not a single ford product comes to mind for any of these catagories. Ford may be putting out a product that is decent in almost all of these, but not excellent any any single one.

bascho

I believe that Fords sales #'s you posted do not include fleet sales and Chryslers do. I'll try to find the e-mail I rec'd to back up what I said. I think it was an internal e-mail to let the Ford employees know that even though the Five Hundred is being 'bashed' for blandness, that sales are telling another story.

bascho

Can't argue with a single thing you've stated.....in fact, Ford has acknowledged this and the new Edge and MKX are being built and sold against the status quo. The panoramic glass roof and adaptive headlamps were not cost effective options....but Ford wanted to offer them anyway because that is what market research has taught them. Ford is going to start offering a lot more content in all of their vehicles because they've decided to let the customer decide what is too much for the price range. Most new Ford's allow for iPod connectivity, voice command navigation systems, Sirrius satalite radio, hands-free telecommunication with blue-tooth phones, etc. Over the next couple of years, there will be no limit to the configuration you can add to ALL of the Ford line-up.

Japan8

But if they still have no manual and those ugly *** steering wheels, I won't be buying. Any meetings you go to about more general product development, market or feedback... you tell them this... all these comments and complaints that I make about Ford... this is coming from someone who is a "Ford man" out of the "Big 3". That should tell Ford that there is STILL something seriously wrong with what they are doing.

I STILL can't believe the steering wheel and lack of manual (V6 model) in the Fusion. Unbelievable.

SHOWOFF

That Sportura watch looks like *******. Ugh. I'll take my Catier 21 Chronoscaph over that any day.

SHOWOFF

The Fivehundred is a little bland, but it will have some staying power. Ford plans to revamp the car with the new signature Ford 3 Bar Grille and add some additional current features to keep it fresh as well as a more powerful 3.5L V-6 to make up for the 3.0L it currently runs.

Chrysler will lose their oomph as they always do, because their cars seem to be trendy and then dated pretty quickly. Ford never intended for the 500 to be their volume leader anyway. There won't be a huge fleet # from Ford either with the 500. They want to keep their residuals high so they will not offer them up in volume to rental companies. Chrysler right now is in desperate need to keep the 300 sales high so they have started pumping them into fleet in record numbers.

What really sucks is that all of the wheel factories that make 22+" sized wheels and people that sell vertical door kits businesses will tank if the 300 stops selling.
I was on my way to work the other day and I saw 2 silver 300's with 22's and chrome mesh grills running right next to each other. It's starting to look really tacky.