steezy_11

Is it just me or does the back of the new 6 look a lot like the Sonata?

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

When I first read your phrase, I thought you were calling people morons. I thought , you sound like nycgps

Paul.

Bladecutter

I've got him down pretty good, don't I?

All I really need to do to channel NYCGPS is think back to when I worked at Citibank in Long Island City, and think of how I felt driving in rush hour traffic on Queens Blvd, and just think how much I hate everything around me.

Then after that, I'm pretty much back in my NYC zone, so anything I post, is full on NYCGPS-like.
Just with better grammar and spelling.

BC.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

This is from Mazda. Nice little video.

zoom44

a few years ago when i first went to CES I was walking on the elevated walkway between two casinos with my aunt who lives there in Vegas. There was a woman and a guy alternating playing cellos in the middle of the span. They were fantastic and it was really a cool few minutes just hanging there listening and taking in vegas. I think it was those two people^^

JeRKy 8 Owner

Not even close to looking like the concept.
Ugly and bland.

monchie

Love the short video. I can't wait to see it in 2014. I may have to replace my 6 to this...maybe.

usnidc

I am not sure what you were expecting, but comparing the actual production car to that CAD picture, I think they kept it very close to the original design.

Ajax

Agreed.
And IMHO, it looks fantastic.
Now give us a mazdaspeed version.. and ok, a coupe too!

TALAN7

I agree partially with your assessment. While Mazda did tame it down too much making it as bland as many other cars out there, I still think it's nice looking, just not nice enough to own it's segment. Many say it looks very similar to the takeri concept but it was watered down from the takeri which in my opinion was watered down way too much from the Shinari. The Shinari is what Mazda should've made. It should be racier. There are too many cars in it's segment to compete with. Mazda shoul've look more to the Porsche panemera/Audi A7/Masarati Quatrroporte for inspiration and made it more of a performance 4 door sports car.

My feeling is that critics will like this car but that it won't sell any better than the last Mazda6. Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Nissan Altima own this category. Hyundai was able to make inroads because of their bold styling, that I remember critics stating that it could be a mercedes when it came out (they copied), along with low cost and the best warranty in the business. You can't compete with that. The econo car route isn't going to work with Mazda in the long run, unless they got some magic tech up their sleeve that work wonders.

If I were Mazda I would look at each model I make compared with a Porsche equivalent, the Mazda6 would be a 4 door sports car. You don't see Porsche worried about mpg, sure each model gets more efficient, yes, but 1st and foremost is performance. i would make Mazda the cheaper, Japanese Porsche. Yeah that means going up in price some. Let's say their cars went up in price 20% but their performance went up as well it would be worth it to enthusiasts. What most people won't do is pay for an enthusiasts car that gets around the track slower than the average model though.

Mazda should move upmarket just a bit to compete with Acura, Volvo, Infiniti, Caddie, and Lexus at a cheaper price, and to look at itself as an inexpensive Porsche. The MX5 does its part already. I would make a rotary supercar to compete with corvette, gtr, 911. I would make the Mazda3 a little more upscale, not too much. The 6 i would make a lot more performance oriented and rear wheel drive. Just by making it rwd they will attract a different buyer. Mazda could do to entry level sports/luxury cars what Hyundai is doing to the regular class. Come in cheaper with more features. Ultimately though they will need help to survive. They're too small

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Here is the new 6, still in disguise, being driven on European roads. Look how happy these people appear (Big smiles) while putting it through it's paces.


Paul.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

And yet another gem of a video, from Russia with love, enjoy:

Презентаци� Mazda6 2013 - YouTube

Paul.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Where do you get this from?

They are achieving record sales, overtook GM in Australia even. Large infusion of cash from the stock sale, and great technology. Their only weakness financially is the strong yen vs dollar. And that is being corrected with assembly lines in Thailand, Russia, and Mexico.


Mazda will always be small, because too few people appreciate what they do. But that's ok. Not many products out there actually gain universal, or even majority, approval. Plenty of companies survive and thrive selling niche products.

If it's not your niche, perhaps another company fits you better.

Nathan Atkins

found some more differences between the engine pics from the beginning of this thread, (just because i like this sort of thing...)

1:upper motor mount is at a slightly different angle
2:valve cover has an additional bolt on the exhaust side at the corner
3:different shape to the intake plenum beneath the runners
4:slightly larger triangular support webbing on the casting of the lower portion of the short block, just behind the A/C compressor
5:different sensor, located just inboard of the belt as it goes toward the A/C compressor
6:on the casting just next to where the TDC crank angle is read, one of the engines has an "innie and the other an "outie"
7: as was mentioned the oil pan is a slightly different shape
8: a tang, just above the hydraulic pump on the backside of the engine

TALAN7

But they aren't making any money, in fact they're losing money. They don't make enough cars at a cheap enough cost to build to be profitable. I think it's easier for an upscale brand to be small but for a bread and butter brand, you have to be large enough to have economies of scale.

The new 6 is nice, but will it outsell Altima, no, Camry, no, Accord, no, Malibu, no, Fusion, no, Sonata, no, not even the Kia optima. The market where Mazda's been playing is too competitive. Mazda has to distance themselves from the pack in a big way. They've always been known as the sporty division, every critic gives them that. But are they really sporty?. IMO all their models should be rwd then they'd attract the "sporty buyer." This would make them stand out. Look at the 6s sales in 2011...terrible

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

They are only losing money here in the US, and it's because the conversion from a sale in US dollars to yen puts it below the cost. We are a big market for them, so it's hurting the company as a whole. Yes, the 6 has been lack-luster. Hence the re-design. The new 6 should pick up the pace quite well with vastly improved looks and far better economy. Add diesel and it's a serious TDI challenger.

Going rwd is something I would prefer, unfortunately, too many other people would disagree I think.

Bladecutter

The people who can't drive in bad weather on bald tires would complain.
The people who want the best possible fuel mileage would complain.
The people who want the smallest possible tunnel through the center of the car would complain.
The people who have never driven anything other than FWD would complain after their first sideways event in snow or rain.

Those four groups alone are a huge segment of buyers.

It would be nice if they could build the 6 with so many different drivetrain layouts, but they are trying to save money, not cater to the smallest possible segments of their core buyers.

BC.

TALAN7

All BMWs, Mercs, Porsches, Infinitis, Jags, Lexus (performance versions) are rwd. People break their backs and their banks to obtain these cars. All these brands are considered hi performance (and luxury) brands. Even Caddillac went rwd to be taken seriously. All new cars have traction control anyway these days for safety. FWD is too bread and butter. Too many cars at too many price points for a small company with limited resources to compete. People have no problem going rwd when they purchase luxury cars. If the new 6 was rwd, had more power, was slightly more upscale (just slightly, that could almost be done with just marketing alone), and if it came in at a price point that was much under a BMW people like us would be all over it. I don't think enough people will by the new 6.

Going all rwd would be a bold move that would set Mazda apart from all the other bread and butter brands and would immediately put mazda against brands like BMW, Infiniti, Caddillac, etc.

Bladecutter

The only problem is that Mazda isn't a luxury car company.
They are not a sports car company.

They are a bread and butter car company that builds bread and butter cars that are slightly more enjoyable to drive than all the other bread and butter cars.

They have 1 roadster, and 1 hot hatch, and everything else they offer is simply market competition. They probably wouldn't even sell the Mazda 2 here in the US if it didn't offer MPG advantages for their entire fleet of vehicles.

It would be nice if they would go upmarket, like Lexus, Infiniti, or BMW, Porsche, but they won't. Just like they can't afford to bail out of the US market, even though they supposedly lose money on every vehicle they sell here, and it wipes out their profits from all the other markets.

If they went upmarket, then a large portion of their core buyers, those that buy Mazda 3's and CX-5's, wouldn't be able to buy the cars. If the CX-5 started at 30k and went up to 40k, no one would have bought it. I wouldn't have even looked at it. If the Mazda 3 started at $25k and went up to $40k, how many less do you think they would sell every month?

If Mazda went upmarket, they would have to eliminate the 2, the 3, and possibly the Sky-Active 2.0 engine, as it just wouldn't meet the needs and wants of that target audience. Or, they would have to put a turbo on it, like right now.

BC.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

The losses are not supposed and they are not just in the US. It is the strength of the Yen, not just it's position to the US Dollar, that is killing a manufacturer that builds such a high percentage of it's cars in Japan. They need to find a way out of the bread and butter business. We know they can make fine pastries .

Paul.

ASH8

75% of Mazda's losses are from the North American market...and mostly currency related, but not all.

Hopefully buildings in Mexico (all new 100% Mazda owned plant) and a Russian joint venture will add more icing to the profit line..or else they are in big trouble.

I believe they will get it right, they just take way too long....way too slow.

MAZDA in the US can become a 'more luxurious' brand IF the chiefs at Mazda NA wanted them to be and started acting like a "luxury" or up market brand.

MNAO have wasted the last decade on trying to build a good customer base, in Australia we have the highest customer loyalty (customer return) for Mazda worldwide...all with way higher new car prices.

It really is not that hard, good Distribution Management and Staff, Good Dealers with the best fixed operation departments in the Business (OE Parts and Service)...

THE product is already there/here.

We will see how MNAO markets the New 6, so far the CX-5 launch was very cheap/trashy and uninspiring.

usnidc

You juat described all the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord drivers...

TALAN7

Perhaps that is where they fail. Building cars that are slightly more enjoyable is not enough in my opinion. They need to bring it at all levels... performance, marketing, customer service. They aren't building enough passion around their cars, particularly with their terrible marketing.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Well said. There are not enough people who appreciate "Slightly more enjoyable bread and butter". Mazda is actually one of the few companies I feel, can outdo Audi and BMW at some levels. I think those should be the eventual targets but VW should be the first (To battle in maybe 5-6 segments). Forget about Camry and Accord chasing (Directly). Those guys have US made 'bread and butter' down to an art.

Paul.

MattMPS

i agree 100%. Here in EU (at least in Italy) after sales service is very poor. this is the main problem in EU, together with to few advertising.

Also Alfa Romeo (here in EU) is a target for Mazda. VW here is too mainstream....Mazda is more "speciality brand".

About the new 6 many people here in Italy say (on blogs, forums..etc..): "this would be/IS a perfect Alfa"