Steiner

Found a couple road test reviews for the new STi...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...mpreza_wrx_sti

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do....photopanel..3

Altair 8

hahaha, all hail the "S"

VikingDJ

I love hatchbacks. The STI hatch is right up my alley as a daily driver, but I wouldn't be able to afford one anytime soon unless I unloaded both my Speed 6 and S2000 for it, which is not happening. It's a few years too late, which sucks, because I'd love to own one as a daily, and I'd likely never sell it.

The new STI coming out is great for everyone, and I firmly believe the fact that it's been softened up is a good thing. I just don't get raw economy sedans and hatchbacks, but nonetheless I loved my STI when driving it, until I got out of car and looked at it, and realized, this ain't a sports car, it's a cheap looking economy sedan.


I admired my 04 STI for it's rawness, but at the end of the day it was a 4 door sedan with a that lacked any real style and refinement, and people I know didn't like being passengers in.

To each his own, but I believe RAW should go back to sports cars. I guess I could just never fully get into a 4 door sedan as a fun car. I tried though.

Why the hell didn't they just make the STI a 2 door sports coupe in the beginning?

Steiner

Viking, I hear what you're saying but the other side of the argument is pretty compelling too. The other side of the coin says yeah...sure...we'd all love to have sexy high performance coupes but the reality is that many of us with families NEED the practicality, leg room, head room and cargo space of a 4 door sedan. It is a "need to have" when we go car shopping. Cars like the STi and Evo allow guys like that to incorporate an extra large portion of "nice to have" into their next car purchase. The thinking being, if I'm gonna be stuck with a family sedan I might as well find the funnest one I can.

That being said, I don't think either of these cars are bad looking. The new Lancer is a pretty decent looking car, even if the Audi-esque front end on the Evo X is not really my favorite look. The base model Impreza is pretty bland but the STi hatch, although not traditionally sexy, looks aggressive to me in a very WRC type of way.

VikingDJ

I've been a bit misinterpreted. My point was based on people on this thread complaining about how the rawness is being compromized and the cars are getting softer for more friendly use. I think it's 100% necessary, because these are economy sedans, not sports cars. Great that they started off raw and untamed, but they MUST evolutionize into some luxury and refinement aspects. I could barely hear myself think in my 04 STI it was so loud. If it were my pure weekend FAIR WEATHER ONLY summer car, then who cares. When it's a daily driver for lets say a family with kids, it's gotta get softened up.

The attempt to turn them into raw sports cars just didn't cut it with me. I'm glad they are turning more into utility cars with high performance, better looks, and some luxury, and that a family can buy as a year round machine for both fun and utility.

Ike

The STI and Evo were the last of the Homologation specials and their rawness was a big part of what made them special and so coveted by enthusiasts. People who want a "family funster" have plenty of other cars to chose from and I see no reason to dumb down two of the most exhilerating and and fun to drive cars on the road. That said, both cars will probably sell better than they have in the past, but these cars were never intended to have big sales numbers, they were purpose built niche cars.

saturn

I disagree that the Evo is being turned into a "family funster". It may not be as raw as it used to be, but it's by no means a MS6 or Dodge Magnum or something like that. I for one, like where these cars are going because there aren't any cars out right now that really interest me. I don't want a car that's just fun on the track (MX-5 or S2000). I'd rather not have a car that's got no practicality (350Z). I definitely don't want a giant boat of a car (GTO, Magnum, Charger, MS6). I want a car that goes fast in a straight line and around corners, gets me solid gas mileage, isn't FWD, has a backseat and trunk, and is relatively easy to drive. The RX-8 was very close for me, but not quite. The new Evo is by far the closest thing to what I'm going for (theoretically).

I know for the earlier Evo fans the new direction might be a big let down. But I don't think there are any cars out there that even come close to what I'm looking for and I'm glad to see Mitsubishi take a stab at it.

Ike

I'm having a hard time not getting caught up in all the hate that is swirling around over these two cars... By all acounts the Evo X handles wonderfully despite the weight gains. So if I can get a little softer ride and some extra amenities in a car that handles better but is slower I'll still consider it. That's only iff it takes well to mods so I'll most likely wait and see what the aftermarket can do before I take the plunge. Subaru actually did a pretty good job keeping weight down on the new STI, plus rumors are that it handles a little better and is at least as fast as the outgoing model. SDo there is still hope for me loving either or both cars, but I still can't help but be a little sad that the era of raw fun rally specials has come to an end.

Steiner

If you haven't owned or spent much time behind the wheel of an VIII or IX then I have every expectation that the new Evo X will surpass 100% of your performance needs. It's all about frame of reference. Those of us with a CT9A Evo are just pissy. The VIII was such a fun car and then the IX came out and it was better in every way that originally drew enthusiasts to the VIII. It's such a great feeling when expectations are exceeded. Because of that the X is a departure from the pattern, albeit brief, that we saw over the last 4 years.

Steiner

Found a video of the new STI up close and in person...

http://www.subie.tv/index.php/video/...evving_sounds/

nt5k

I personally don't understand the hateration going on about these cars. Oooooh, they are .23598324 seconds slower on some track on different days that none of us will ever drive on. Who gives a flip. Is it fun to drive? Does it handle well? Does it stop well? These are the things that matter at the end of the day. I'm so sick and tired of the magazine/internet racing going on. Furthermore,most people that buy these cars seem to screw them up by 'modding' them anyway, so why are they so concerned that it's softer/slower/whatever from the factory?

delhi

I don't remember ever there was such a rivalry amongst japanese automotive brand. It's fun to read and funner to own. But the funnest doing Scandinavian flicks at an empty parking lot after a snow storm. Ahh... I remember my younger days.

9291150

It's a huge step forward as a daily driver, and hopefully it's not as prone to understeer. But at $50,000 Canadian for a Subie...I'll pass!

Rhawb

Blah, forgive me for not reading through the entire thread, but between the pudgy new Evo and the "sunday driver" STi, I'm pretty disappointed with this round of the Evo/STi battle.

The STi won't appeal to many people here in the US, mostly because it's a hatch. I'm actually a fan of hatches (I've owned 2), but I still think the design of the STi just has a terrible case of the blahs. I think if any interest is generated in the new STi, it will only come if it shows a marked performance advantage over the Evo X.

The Evo is the car I had my money on this round, and even that has let me down. It's great if it's faster around the track even with its handicap, but I think they're taking a big step backwards with such a large weight gain. However, I think it's going to appeal to many more people than the STi. Your average "Joe Carbuyer" isn't going to care about some added weight. He'll see that there's no annoying clutch pedal, it's got more ammenities, and it's got a sportier look than the frumpy STi.

If I were currently in the market, I'd wait until they redesign the STi and put the Evo on a diet.



Edit: Just watched that video, and seeing the STi in darkness made me realize that it has some serious potential to be a good looking car, they just completely failed with the front and rear end designs. If they added a more aggressive and less "happy" front end, and ditched the RX330 tails (hell, they'd probably look fine if they were just RED), they'd probably have quite a nice looking car.

Steiner

Here's a comparison Motortrend did of the USDM Evo X and the USDM Evo IX...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cp13KGEsok

playdoh43

ive always though of this segment as the raw, exciting no compromise fun cars..
and ive favored the Evo over the STI over the past 2 iterations because of its quicker response and stiffer suspension

im not sure I like the new Evo X because its getting closer to the sport coupes, Id probably rather just get a 335i instead. If the new STI retains more crisp handling and response, Id probably favor the STI this time around. but id like to drive both first before i make any judgement.

Ike

At least for me it has little to do with magazine numbers. Though I gotta say, if the new Evo does end up being a 14 second car that barely traps 100mph I will be bored when getting on the gas. Tack on almost a full second in the 1/4 mile to the new RX-8 and I doubt you'd be happy either. For me it mainly comes down to steering feel and driver feedback. I bought the Evo over the STI in the first place because of the magnificent steering, most are reporting that the steering has been dumbed down on the X. If I wanted a refined pseudo luxury car with great handliing and good performance I would have bought something else. I wanted a raw performance car with some practicality and didn't care about things like a pretty interior or cushy ride, that's why I am many others love the CT9A Evos. It's also why current Evo owners as a whole are worried about what has become of the Evo.

delhi

^ every current gen. car owners lament about the upcoming replacement model being not as good. Heard that about the infamous air-cooled 911 owners on the then new 996 model. Even the NA Miata folks were whining about the NB and later NC. It's evolution of a product (how appropriate). The EVO cannot keep staying as a 80s plastic contraption forever. It has to move on with times since even the latest Hyundai Accent feels more held together than the current EVO.
If ultimate driving pleasure is required, an AWD car based on a sedan platform is not the way to go anways. Get a proper front-engine RWD sportscar like the Z3 M Coupe or a 993 S...

refugeefrompistons

I agree with Ike on this one. There are other options in the automotive world to chose from if you want a luxury sports car. A company should stick to their formula that made them sell cars so well. It is not the best idea to alienate their loyal costumers in order to gain sales.

Yea, it can't but it does not mean it has to be numbed down to a glove wearing pansy. Refinement is one issue but destroying the nature that made the EVO so special is another.

Isn't the EVO suppose to be a everyday reiteration of a rally car? The point of the EVO is not to be the "ultimate driving pleasure" but to the formula EVO has always been, a turbocharged sedan that is hell of a lot of fun.

Ike

Except with the current Evo I get a car that's every bit as fast or faster than the cars you mention around a track. Plus it's more moddable, has nearly as good if not better driver feedback, has the practicaility of a sedan, and can be driven through a harsh midwest winter with ease. I've driven an M Coupe and a few different 911's and for a trackday and overall driving pleasure I'd still pick the Evo.

delhi

The Subaru P1 was faster than the Carrera S on a country road too. And able to negotiate harsh winters. Like an EVO they are great point and squirt cars but I prefer my sports cars classically front-engine RWD format that works with me without the glut of electronic doodads to compensate for a compromised platform to begin with. Put more seat time in a Z3 M Coupe or the 911 you claimed to have driven and you just may understand the beauty of a properly sorted sports car.

Ike

I grew up racing karts and shifter karts as well as doing track days in an E30 M3 and later an E36 M3 with the BMW and Porsche Clubs. I believe I know what a properly sorted RWD car feels like. Your "clasically front engined" "sports car" is the one with the glut of electronics and useless things when it comes to performance cars.

chancejat

iTrader: (2)

evo all the way the new sti is ugly as hell

MP3Guy

Here's a test from Sports Car International, one of the few good car mags left. They concur with what others have said: Faster, but less furious.

http://www.sci-mag.com/art1/art1p1.html


Happens to a lot of cars, though. The design gets "refined" (as some call it) and loses it's personality with each redesign. These cars have never been my cup of tea, but they certainly have added a lot to the enthusiast market.

saturn

How, on any level, is the Evo X a luxury car? I think people are really, really gettig ahead of themselves. No one has driven the new US-spec Evo and yet everyone and their mother has a steadfast opinion about how terrible it's going to be.

Does anyone else in this thread besides Ike even own an Evo? If not, then why all the lament about the new direction they're taking? Maybe Mitsubishi actually wants to sell cars rather than just impress random forum goers. They may alienate some people, but they will gain many fans. Pretty much the EXACT same thing that happened with the RX-7 and the RX-8.

Oh well, maybe all this magazine racing nonsense will help drive the demand for the Evo X down so I can get mine for a reasonable price. Then I can take my new fancy luxury car and see if I can control the immense body roll and overcome the numb steering to beat the living snot out of my friend's RX-8 on a local track. I'll be crossing my fingers!