Steiner

Instead of hijacking a current STi or Evo thread I decided to start a new one. Having this type of objective discussion on the STi or Evo boards is proving to be impossible. There are just too many goofy brand loyalists and folks who've already pre-ordered an '08 STi or Evo X. Thankfully we can discuss this subject more rationally on these boards. I'm especially anxious to hear the thoughts of guys like Rhawb, Saturn, VikingDJ, playdoh43, Ike, 9291150, dynamho, Akisan2, JRichter, Ajax, etc. My initial thoughts on these two cars are below...

The USDM Evo X is just too heavy! Mitsubishi has released the official specs and we're looking at 3600lbs for an MR and about 3520lbs for a GSR. That's a 300lb increase over the CT9A series (VII, VIII & IX) and right in line or heavier than popular sports cars like the E46 M3, G35 coupe and Ford Mustang. I know we should all reserve judgment until the car has been released and reviewed stateside but the laws of physics are stacked against it. Understandably this has a lot to do with the fact that the base Lancer is just an outright bigger car than its predecessor but, simply put, the new Evo can no longer call itself a compact. Hopefully the drive-train technology, added creature comforts and improved daily drive-ability can offset some of the newfound girth. I dunno.

The USDM STi is a hatchback! And while I'm sure nobody wants to turn this thread into a full-blown debate on the aesthetics of two performance driven cars, it has to be addressed. If we look at what Ford and Citroen has done in WRC with their hatches over the last 3 or 4 years it should come as no surprise that Subaru has made the change. They are serious about WRC and many of the professional rally drivers seem to like the neutral feel of the design. As an amateur American driver with a wife, child, and all the material **** that needs to be transported as a result of this lifestyle...I'm OK with the hatch. I'm also OK with the 3300lb curb weight, added HP/TQ, and improved chassis of the new STi. While a trick semi-auto tranny would also be nice for Bay Area traffic, I like the comfort of knowing this entirely brand new STi will be released with a proven transmission/engine combo. My list of "cons" is smaller but equally significant. For one, a 15 to 1 steering ratio would be a step backwards for me. I dunno if I could give up my 13 to 1 rack. Anybody who's experienced a quick rack understands how it contributes to overall driver feedback. Secondly...TMIC...ugh. Will an aftermarket company eventually release a street legal FMIC kit that won't endanger my life and void my collision coverage? Hopefully. And finally, why give the car a goofy (cosmetic) dual exhaust? Since this thread is for comparing the Evo and STi (and both cars have dual exhaust) it's really irrelevant, but it still bugs the hell out of me that I'll have to eventually replace it.

Spinning Sushi

iTrader: (21)

I'm just hoping that the Evo's crash test ratings will go up from 2.5 stars... a reason why I didn't want an Evo.

robfernando

I've been doing some reading on the matter, and even though the Evo X is heavier than the IX, it is faster around the track. So, as with the last 3 incarnations of the Evo, they've all got heavier, but they've all compensated with more power and more electronics.

Here's an interesting article on the Evo X:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...olution_x.html

delhi

Why not design a good chassis and drivetrain from the get go and dispense with the electricals. More electronics = more things to break. Also with less computers = less weight.
So with an increase of 300lbs, it is still as fast as the previous gen? Either the scales are wrong or Mitsu deliberately underquote their hp numbers.

Keef

AWESOME! I've always wanted a detailed description of two completely the same, yet totally different tuner grade Corolla's!

Steiner

Good find. It's definitely a car with broader appeal than the VIII or IX. I've always personally enjoyed the looks of disdain and bewilderment from the uneducated status quo (see the post above for a great example) so it would be weird to see business professionals sporting this car like a Mustang, 350Z or M3. I'd also be interested to know if that review was based on the JDM or North American version of the X though. Not to beat this point to death, but it looks like there are some significant differences when it comes to curb weight.

RX8Maine

Having test driven both of the previous cars, and bought the STi, I would still go with the Subie.

The Evo IX was more nimble and responsive than the STi, but it felt cheap and I hated the reputation that Mitsu has when it comes to warranty. The STi struggled to rotate, but was an overall more solid and safe feeling car, and behaved very well at the limit.

I will try to drive both of the new versions, but just based on the numbers, an extra 300 pounds has to take away some of the tossability that the Evo IX had. The shorter wheelbase and lower polar moment of the hatch will make up for a lot of the previous STi's handling shoprtcomings. All other things held equal (which may not be a safe assumption), the subie should take the prize easily.

Interesting debate!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

In the North America market it is only the 2008 Evolution, there is no "X" designation.

Even though it is heavier, the mass CG is lower than the previous model, handling is also up considerably. From 0.92 - 0.93G on the Evo9 to 0.97 - 0.98G on the 2008 Evo. It also is more composed, especially exiting corners, which the 2008 Evo does as well as most any top line sports car. Quite an accomplishment for an AWD vehicle.

Specs are nice, but they by no means define the actual attributes of a vehicle. Plenty of vehicles look good on paper and fail miserably on the road. BTW, there is a big stand-alone thread on the Evo on this forum.

https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/official-evo-x-thread-106809/

chetrickerman

personally, i absolutely hate the look of the new STi. its a 4 door hatchback, WTF are the designers thinking. oh well, at least you can go get your groceries really fast

Ike

Lets face it, all cars are getting heavier so this was expected of both models. However, the rawness being stripped from both of these cars is what's my biggest concern. They will both be great cars still, but they will be different. Different in a similar way that the E30 M3 is different from the E46. The majority of people will appreciate the E46 more than the E30, but the purist understands what makes the E30 a special car and the E46 just a great car.

I was pretty sure I'd end up with either the new STI or the Evo X a couple months ago. Now I'm not so sure if I will end up with anything other than the car I'm currently driving. So, here's my breakdown of each car as I see it now.

Evo X: I bought my Evo over the STI primarily because of the amazing steering, it's better than any car I've ever driven. The reports of the tamed down steering and responses are troublesome to me. The other main reson I chose it over the STI is the tunability. The 4g63 is pretty legendary in that regard, if I wanted to put 600whp in it tomorrow all I need to do is show take it to AMS with credit card in hand. What will happen with the new powerplant is up in the air, I'm sure it won't be long before people are making big power but I'll be shocked if it has the capabilities of the 4g63. The weight is a little troublesome as well, but I can live with it if the drive is everything I want. I still like my Evo with a full tank and a passenger so the weight alone isn't enough to rule it out for me. Better interior, fine. Most people think it looks better, whatever. I didn't buy my Evo because it looks good and other people like it. Though I must admit, I'm shocked at how many compliments I get on my car and all the gawkers. Barely a week goes by without someone checking out my car in the parking lot when I'm walking out to it.

New STI: Let me start by saying, I love the hatch. Few Americans understand hatches or like them. I could care less what the average American thinks. Having a car that I love to drive with the utility that the new STI will have would be awesome. However, it's looking more and more like the new STI has been softened up and early reports are that there is more body roll and that it has even more understeer. Not good, I want a drivers car, not just a car with good numbers and utility. I'm not going to sacrifice the driving experience for a tarted up interior and the utility of a hatch. So again, it's a wait and see.

I don't doubt that each one of these cars are going to be viewed as better by most drivers. But, I'm not most drivers. Sure, every now and then I wish my car wasn't quite the "experience" to drive. Sometimes I just want to get in a car and get from point A to point B without feeling like I'm in some race car. However, most of the time I absolutely love the rawness of the current Evo. The razor edge steering, the big rush of the turbo kicking in, and the muscular gussied up econocar looks all are good things in my book.

The way I'm looking at it is the current Evo is the last of it's breed. It's the last of the homologation specials, even if Mitsubishi pulled out of the WRC and the homologattion rules changed long ago. The last car that I can afford that will ever have 1% of the market in mind rather the remaining 99%. For that reason the two new cars are going to have to be pretty amazing to make me trade my Evo in. I'll be perfectly happy with my ugly interior, bumpier ride, and less refined looks if the new cars don't live up to what I expect from a drivers car. If they let me down I'll just pay off my Evo and get something used for when I want something a little more tame to drive around. Maybe a used G35, RX-8, Forester XT, Legacy GT, or BMW 135. I'll also be at AMS with credit card in hand getting my GT35r kit installed.

chetrickerman

i will admit it. i like the look of the evo 8s and 9s better than the new one. they just look raw, fast, sexy, and stunning. i was going to get one before i bought my 8, and one of my older friends took me for a ride in his, and oh man does it send you back in your seat. but then reality kicked in and even though i would be able to afford the monthly payments, i doubt i would be able to afford the insurance for an 18 year old kid with a turbocharged car. so the 8 was the 2nd choice, and im happy with it.

9291150

Good points here.

As daily drivers both may be a decent step foward. Finding one car that could be a real visceral driving experience but also comfortable and practical isn't easy. But most don't care about the "driving experience", my father in law is perfectly content with his Charger SRT-8 (he had to get a faster car than mine to charm the grandkids), but driving that thing always leave me uninspired. Still, the 425hp sold him.

Manufacturers can't be blamed for building cars that they think they'll sell more of, even if they loose their appeal to the 2%'ers out there.

termigni

i absolutly love how the EVO X looks.
i absolutly hate how the STi looks. (update: I absolutely love how STi looks)

Evo looks like none other.
STi looks like a Hyundai on steriods. (update: It still does but I love the hardcore look of it)

with that in mind, I would pick the EVO because the performance i believe is neck and neck. (update: I think I would go with the STi now)

Gish

Good choice. The Evo is the most expensive car to insure in the United States.

Steiner

I'm right with you on these sentiments. For the last 10+ years of my life I've always just taken it for granted that the new version of my favorite make and model will be better than the one before it. While in the large majority of cases that still holds true, I think the new Evo/STi models force performance enthusiasts to debate the meaning of the word "better"...line item by line item. The changes are just so dramatic. Things are unfamiliar and, because of that, those usual feelings of needing a new car aren't really there. I'll wait and see what's been determined after the first 90 days of these cars finally hitting U.S. shores. I'm optimistic but also realistic and reasonably satisfied with what's currently sitting in my garage. However, unlike other enthusiasts considering the 135i, G37 or other RWD sports cars to replace their Evo/STi, I'm still drinking the AWD/turbocharged cool-aid. Because the new Nissan GT-R is a simply out of reach right now for me both financially and in terms of practicality, I'm crossing my fingers and staying subscribed to the "Evo vs. STi" debate for the foreseeable future.

BigRed

i always think stizzies are teh way to go regardless. i just like subaru more than mitsubishi, flame on if you will. i believe in better quality brands.

delhi

I think I am pretty much done with hi-po AWD turbocharged cars. They were great during my younger days with stage this and turbo that. AWD allows me to just point and shoot easily. Very err... Playstation like. It does the stuff well without much drama. What these cars ultimately lack IMHO after having lived in the Subaru camp, is driving satisfaction.
RWD cars give me that in that when driven properly it delivers the level of feedback and satisfaction. There is this symbiosis on a properly sorted out RWD car without the whiz-bang AWD that one balances while rounding a sweeper or a fast S ribbon. Can't explain what. These AWD turbo-munsters dispatch the curves very efficiently however it is with the RWD's finesse that brings me more smiles. So neither STI/EVO will get my money.
But if I had to choose, it will be the STi because it is less garish.

Ike

You think they lack driving satisfaction because you came from the Subaru camp... When it comes to driver feel and "satisfaction" few cars can rival the Evo, and that includes the STi and especially the WRX.

CosmosMpower

I own/have owned 4 that can.

1. E36 M3
2. S2000
3. Miata
4. Elise

Steiner

Those are all definitely great handling cars. Very different than an Evo but very good. The M3 is the only one I've driven though. I loved how balanced and tossable it felt.

nt5k

Too bad Subaru assumes everyone in the US is obese. The seats on the STi are worse than the rx8 seats.

Ike

The seats are pretty bad and the seats in my '03 WRX were much better. On a side note, I saw a guy drive down my street a couple months ago in an STI and he looked like a freaking bowling ball. Was easily pushing 500 lbs. and probably a few cheeseburgers away from needing the jaws of life to pry him out of the car.

Ike

Propblem is only one of those cars might work as a daily driver in WI. and that one (the M3) doesn't compare to the Evo IMO. It was a great car, but I'd take an E30 M3 or Evo over one every time for pure driving fun.

refugeefrompistons

Here, I do not think I'm being too subjective about this since almost everyone will agree. The evo has a questionable new look to it while the WRX is just ugly.

RXei8ht

I've actually been a long time Subaru fan before I even had the 8; from what I've noticed the Evo's were always a little bit more nimble when it came to handling, but the STI's weren't too far behind. STI's have an incredible amount of torque and you can expect this will live on in the new iteration (I believe its stayin around 290 for TQ) As for the looks I'm probably going to give the edge to the Evo X, but not by much. I can understand Subaru for goin more "mainstream" in the design of the new Impreza but, its hard to deny that its looks are somewhat questionable. However as with the recent iterations of the STI's I have a feeling its going to grow on me once I actually see the car..... actually I think its already starting to grow on me... Well theres my two cents.