Running-in period
04-28-2003, 07:53 AM
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Running-in period
The recent New Moon thread on his newly delivered yellow RX8 raised th sissue of the 'running-in' period. Is there any official advise from Mazda on this that we know?
When I purchased the TTC from new the advise on this was mixed. Officially Audi said that for the first 1000k the car should be driven with a max 2/3 revs only, But many owners response was that the engine has been bench run-in and that the earlier it was fully reved the better the engine would 'tune' to more aggresive driving. I took it easy but it was a very boring month.
Additionally, I thought the as the rotary only as 4 movening parts (or something similar) and a very smooth and easy rev cycle that the running-in period would not apply.
rael
When I purchased the TTC from new the advise on this was mixed. Officially Audi said that for the first 1000k the car should be driven with a max 2/3 revs only, But many owners response was that the engine has been bench run-in and that the earlier it was fully reved the better the engine would 'tune' to more aggresive driving. I took it easy but it was a very boring month.
Additionally, I thought the as the rotary only as 4 movening parts (or something similar) and a very smooth and easy rev cycle that the running-in period would not apply.
rael
04-28-2003, 08:29 AM
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I have run in several new cars (and a bike) now: One thing is: Do NOT rev too high! Beware of the manufacturers numbers (revs or speed limit).
But the other thing: Do not brake in your engine by simply going on the motorway/interstate/Autobahn. Don't do this, it sucks your engine! It is very crucial for the engine's "character" that you don't simply have one speed setting and hold this. Go from 1st to 6th (5th) speed and then accelerate to 110 kph and let down to 80 kph, smoothly go to 110 again and so forth... After about 5-600 km and with a hot engine you let it rev more aggressively for once, 5-10 mins or so. After 1000 km you go aggressively in 2nd speed and 3rd speed to get good acceleration (that's the fun period then). BUT NEVER WITH A COLD ENGINE! After 2000 km I change the oil, that's it.
You cannot do this on motorway/interstate/Autobahn. You should use a hilly highway/country road/Landstrasse
To take a weekend doing this is quite a good idea!
Well, at least this is how my father and I do it every time and my cars are always also capable as well as reliable!
But the other thing: Do not brake in your engine by simply going on the motorway/interstate/Autobahn. Don't do this, it sucks your engine! It is very crucial for the engine's "character" that you don't simply have one speed setting and hold this. Go from 1st to 6th (5th) speed and then accelerate to 110 kph and let down to 80 kph, smoothly go to 110 again and so forth... After about 5-600 km and with a hot engine you let it rev more aggressively for once, 5-10 mins or so. After 1000 km you go aggressively in 2nd speed and 3rd speed to get good acceleration (that's the fun period then). BUT NEVER WITH A COLD ENGINE! After 2000 km I change the oil, that's it.
You cannot do this on motorway/interstate/Autobahn. You should use a hilly highway/country road/Landstrasse
To take a weekend doing this is quite a good idea! Well, at least this is how my father and I do it every time and my cars are always also capable as well as reliable!
04-28-2003, 05:56 PM
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Run In.
Going too gently is probably worse than a little too aggressive - the only thing it said about the subject in my last rotaries manual was to not 'lug' the engine during run-in. The engine would detonate and knock when I was easing it up my driveway in a low gear, 1200-1300 revs. I could FEEL the damage!
S.
S.
04-28-2003, 07:08 PM
#5
Check this out and tell me what you think: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Personally I think he has very good points, they sound reasonable. I might even try it !
Personally I think he has very good points, they sound reasonable. I might even try it !
04-29-2003, 03:02 AM
#7
Originally posted by zoom44
personally i am going to do exactly what my owner's amnual says to do.
personally i am going to do exactly what my owner's amnual says to do.
Good choice.. Well at least dont exceed anything in it (rev limit, throttle % etc).
The ECU will log exactly how you drive the car and if you exceed the owners manuals running in profile they could use this as an excuse to void the warrenty.
04-29-2003, 04:05 AM
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So i shouldn't over-rev the engine, nor under-rev the engine, nor maintain a constant rev on the engine. I should take it gently to start with as long as I also give it some welly at the same time.
now I'm just confused.
maybe I'll just leave it on the driveway to look pretty.
now I'm just confused.
maybe I'll just leave it on the driveway to look pretty.
04-29-2003, 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by jimbobjoe
maybe I'll just leave it on the driveway to look pretty.
maybe I'll just leave it on the driveway to look pretty.
Racing engines are not run-in with a granny foot, they are banged to the red line after they get to temp to seat the rings. It should apply to the rotary from what I gather.
Rob
Last edited by Digisan; 04-29-2003 at 04:25 AM.
04-29-2003, 05:00 AM
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Those not used to the free-reving rotary engine (including myself) may find control within a certain rev limit a bit difficult initially. Also, with the very few moving parts to 'mould' I am surprised we need a long run in period.
Presume nobody knows what the manual may say on this issue. Whatever they say will be a guide only and will not impact on the warranty.
rael.
Presume nobody knows what the manual may say on this issue. Whatever they say will be a guide only and will not impact on the warranty.
rael.
04-29-2003, 05:10 AM
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Here's something I found:
http://rotaryresurrection.com/faq1.html
This guy says that piston and rotary engines break-in at different rates.
Rob
http://rotaryresurrection.com/faq1.html
This guy says that piston and rotary engines break-in at different rates.
Rob
04-29-2003, 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by rael
Those not used to the free-reving rotary engine (including myself) may find control within a certain rev limit a bit difficult initially. Also, with the very few moving parts to 'mould' I am surprised we need a long run in period.
Presume nobody knows what the manual may say on this issue. Whatever they say will be a guide only and will not impact on the warranty.
rael.
Those not used to the free-reving rotary engine (including myself) may find control within a certain rev limit a bit difficult initially. Also, with the very few moving parts to 'mould' I am surprised we need a long run in period.
Presume nobody knows what the manual may say on this issue. Whatever they say will be a guide only and will not impact on the warranty.
rael.
As an example, when my mate picked up his Civic Type R the dealer told him that all the run in had already been done on the engine at the factory and he can run it as hard as he wanted.
So he did. :D
04-29-2003, 07:50 AM
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This is what the mentioned website says about running in the REBUILT engine. I would take what is appropriate to a new one... I believe that the Renesis is a little different due to the new ceramic seals?
Ah, sure the Honda dealer says "run it hard from the beginning". I have been told so many times too. The dealer wants to have his profit if the engine is broken after 100.000 km! Just think a little bit about it.
What I said: Giving the engine its soul, its character... You can believe this or not.
Source:
http://rotaryresurrection.com/ (choose "tech")
Ah, sure the Honda dealer says "run it hard from the beginning". I have been told so many times too. The dealer wants to have his profit if the engine is broken after 100.000 km! Just think a little bit about it.
What I said: Giving the engine its soul, its character... You can believe this or not.
Source:
http://rotaryresurrection.com/ (choose "tech")
Rebuilt engine startup procedures/break-in
(specifically for rotary resurrection rebuilds)
Once a fresh rebuild is assembled and installed there are a couple of things to do before trying to make it run. Fresh rebuilds are often low compression, and as a result never run very well initially, sometimes poorer than the old one they replaced. Remember that every minute the rebuild runs it is getting stronger, and how you treat it now is how it will run for you later.Here is an outline, as well as breakin recommendations. These can apply to any rebuild, professional or self-built. IT is also recommended to have a fuel cutoff switch installed(for 86-88s) before trying to start a rebuild, as it will want to flood every time it is shut off. Note that 89-91 models have built-in anti-flood features, just depress the throttle fully to deprive the engine of fuel and unflood it.
1) remove EGI fuses underhood to disable fuel/spark.
2) crank for 10 seconds at a time, once per minute, at least 3 times, to prime the oil system and build oil pressure before startup. You can usually see 20-30psi of oil pressure during cranking.
3) Inject some oil into the lower plug holes of each chamber to help build compression for startup. Fresh rebuilds with old housings are very low compression initially. My rebuilds already have some assembly oil injected.
4) Make preparations to idle the engine up before startup. A rebuild will not even consider idling normally for the first few hours. Use the hard idle set screw(on throttle body by linkages, 8mm locknut with flathead setscrew inside, covered by factory jb weld) to adjust the throttle somewhat open at idle, a few turns are necessary. You want the rebuild to idle at around 1500rpm for the first day or more. IF you don?t do this ahead of time, and you?re by yourself, youll be stuck inside the car holding the gas instead of outside checking for leaks and such, and if you stop the engine it?ll be hard to get started again.
5) A battery charger or external jump(another car) is sometimes helpful in starting a rebuild, as old or partially discharged batteries sometimes lack the strength to really kick over an engine and build enough compression to start. A strong charge is a must here.
6) Be prepared for smoke?there is assembly lube in the engine, which will be burned out in the form of smoke. Expect this to get into your exhaust and smoke can remain for up to 8 hours afterwards until it is all burned out slowly.
7) Be prepared to watch for leaks?oil lines, coolant hoses, gaskets, and other connections should be examined for leaks. Youll also want to keep an eye on the gauges?oil pressure, water temperature, voltage, etc.
8) Once it is running and youre satisfied everything is stable, set the idle to around 1500rpm and let it be. Since compression is constantly changing, there isn?t much use in adjusting and readjusting idle and TPS settings until breakin is almost complete, as the settings will change almost daily. Right now, the more you can drive it, the better. IT is very helpful for the first few days even to just let it idle in the driveway all day.
9) Breakin should be completed as follows: keep rpms under 4000, oil changes at 500 and 2000 miles, and no boost above atmospheric(turbo models).
10) Great improvements in starting, idle quality and overall smoothness/power will begin occurring immediately, but most improvement will be reached by 1500 miles, at which time you can gradually increase rpm and boost. By the time the engine reaches 2000 miles, it is basically broken in and can be treated as you wish within reason.
11) Don?t be disappointed if it doesn?t start immediately. It is very easy to leave off an important connector or get fuel lines backwards, etc. Just keep checking things. Adding more oil/atf to the chambers often helps build compression and start the engine. Also old plugs, or plugs that have sat in a flooded engine for any time at all will cause an engine to run poorly or not at all. I find that plugs foul several times the first day of running, and 2-4 times during subsequent breakin. It is recommended to have several sets of (used) plugs on hand, along with a wirebrush to clean them off with once theyre fouled.
(specifically for rotary resurrection rebuilds)
Once a fresh rebuild is assembled and installed there are a couple of things to do before trying to make it run. Fresh rebuilds are often low compression, and as a result never run very well initially, sometimes poorer than the old one they replaced. Remember that every minute the rebuild runs it is getting stronger, and how you treat it now is how it will run for you later.Here is an outline, as well as breakin recommendations. These can apply to any rebuild, professional or self-built. IT is also recommended to have a fuel cutoff switch installed(for 86-88s) before trying to start a rebuild, as it will want to flood every time it is shut off. Note that 89-91 models have built-in anti-flood features, just depress the throttle fully to deprive the engine of fuel and unflood it.
1) remove EGI fuses underhood to disable fuel/spark.
2) crank for 10 seconds at a time, once per minute, at least 3 times, to prime the oil system and build oil pressure before startup. You can usually see 20-30psi of oil pressure during cranking.
3) Inject some oil into the lower plug holes of each chamber to help build compression for startup. Fresh rebuilds with old housings are very low compression initially. My rebuilds already have some assembly oil injected.
4) Make preparations to idle the engine up before startup. A rebuild will not even consider idling normally for the first few hours. Use the hard idle set screw(on throttle body by linkages, 8mm locknut with flathead setscrew inside, covered by factory jb weld) to adjust the throttle somewhat open at idle, a few turns are necessary. You want the rebuild to idle at around 1500rpm for the first day or more. IF you don?t do this ahead of time, and you?re by yourself, youll be stuck inside the car holding the gas instead of outside checking for leaks and such, and if you stop the engine it?ll be hard to get started again.
5) A battery charger or external jump(another car) is sometimes helpful in starting a rebuild, as old or partially discharged batteries sometimes lack the strength to really kick over an engine and build enough compression to start. A strong charge is a must here.
6) Be prepared for smoke?there is assembly lube in the engine, which will be burned out in the form of smoke. Expect this to get into your exhaust and smoke can remain for up to 8 hours afterwards until it is all burned out slowly.
7) Be prepared to watch for leaks?oil lines, coolant hoses, gaskets, and other connections should be examined for leaks. Youll also want to keep an eye on the gauges?oil pressure, water temperature, voltage, etc.
8) Once it is running and youre satisfied everything is stable, set the idle to around 1500rpm and let it be. Since compression is constantly changing, there isn?t much use in adjusting and readjusting idle and TPS settings until breakin is almost complete, as the settings will change almost daily. Right now, the more you can drive it, the better. IT is very helpful for the first few days even to just let it idle in the driveway all day.
9) Breakin should be completed as follows: keep rpms under 4000, oil changes at 500 and 2000 miles, and no boost above atmospheric(turbo models).
10) Great improvements in starting, idle quality and overall smoothness/power will begin occurring immediately, but most improvement will be reached by 1500 miles, at which time you can gradually increase rpm and boost. By the time the engine reaches 2000 miles, it is basically broken in and can be treated as you wish within reason.
11) Don?t be disappointed if it doesn?t start immediately. It is very easy to leave off an important connector or get fuel lines backwards, etc. Just keep checking things. Adding more oil/atf to the chambers often helps build compression and start the engine. Also old plugs, or plugs that have sat in a flooded engine for any time at all will cause an engine to run poorly or not at all. I find that plugs foul several times the first day of running, and 2-4 times during subsequent breakin. It is recommended to have several sets of (used) plugs on hand, along with a wirebrush to clean them off with once theyre fouled.
04-29-2003, 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by neit_jnf
Check this out and tell me what you think: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Personally I think he has very good points, they sound reasonable. I might even try it !
Check this out and tell me what you think: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Personally I think he has very good points, they sound reasonable. I might even try it !
I agree with the fully warmed up point.
I agree with the medium revs open throttle point.
My main reservation is to keep the revs down in the rotary for the first 1000.
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