Lensman

Dying?! News to me. Rael can always be relied upon to be contentious.

rael

Well, 'dying' may a bit strong but certainly since the frenzie of the order registration the forum has gone quiet, primarily as there is little new to talk about. So when these threads suddently take on a life of their own I see now reason restrict the flow.

Until delivery, when this forum will really take-off and everything will be RX8 related, let us encourage the odd highjack to keep the posts coming in.

Lensman - is there a problem?

rael.

mikthe20

Well, just to get on topic, I'll let you know what I'm considering against the RX8.

But first of all, would just like to say hello to everyone - been a lurker for a while I'm afraid, but bumped into RobDickinson on another forum and thought I'd better say hello here.

I understand the RX8 isn't performing as well in Japan as expected because it's a 4-seater sports car, and often sports car buyers are single and have no kids, or are middle aged and the kids have left home, so only want 2 seats. Although there's still a case for rear seats even if you're single IMO:D

Anyway, the idea of a 4-seater sports car really appeals to me (yep, got kids). I used to have a Fiat Coupe and loved it, so the RX8 to me is a bit like a modern Fiat Coupe - looks great, 4 seats, goes fast. The RX8 looks like it will out-do the Fiat in terms of handling (I never had a problem with the build quality). SO, with that criteria, these are the cars I've been looking at:

- RX8 hi-power (worried what the CO2 might be as it'll be a company car). This is my current choice, but I'll wait for a test drive
- New Alfa GT due early next year - looks good, good engines. I have an Alfa 156 currently and have been very pleased with it, but I've probably been lucky since it's been very reliable. I think the Alfa GT is probably going to be a big competitor.
- BMW 3-series and 5-series: The new ones look pretty uggly to me, and like already said here, I'm just one of those people who wouldn't buy a BMW, even though I know they're well made and handle supremely - illogical I know
- Saab 9-3 Aero: Only 0-60 in 7.5 secs but good value and loaded with kit. Probably my second choice right now, but it looks really bland and is front wheel drive. Also not sure about build quality compared to old Saabs.
- Audi A4 (a fast one): I think they look great, apparently handle better, but I just get bored with the design of German cars somehow - they just seem a bit soulless. Also extremely common. I think these will be the new BMWs as a lot of people will buy Audis when they see how ugly "the new BMW" designs are for the 5-series and 3-series (all IMO of course)
- Mercedes CLK Coupe: Poor value for money and dodgy engines. A fast one is way, way more expensive than an RX8, and it has similar connotations to the BMW (I'm not from Chester )
- Subaru Impreza: More of a direct competitor. Just too ugly IMO and a bit too raw with two small kids in the back.
- Mitsubishi EVO VIII (see Subaru Impreza)
- Toyota Celica: A bit slow, but otherwise makes a lot of sense. For some reason I perceive this as a hairdresser's car so have not seriously considered it.

So RX8 is still top of my list (CO2 permitting).

RobDickinson

"Toyota Celica"

Hadnt realy thought about this one.

I prefer the look sof the older more rounded version, and the current version isnt supposed to cope with twisty roads all that well is it (shopping trolly is a term often used).

I guess the 190 version will be roughly = RX8 low power performance? (0-60 in 7.2). And cheaper than the 8 (imported cheaper), But much more common and 'old skool'.

Mercedes CLK Coupe.

Nice car, my garage bloke looks after a new 500CLK (valet/clean every 2 weeks etc).

But your looking at £27k for the base 200 (slow 160hp, 9.3 to 60) and probably wont handle like a sports car.

Top of the range 500CLK get sto 60 in 6 seconds but you could have 2 RX8's for the price of one. And I dont think I'm old enough for a merc yet anyhow..

I think my Wife would toss a coin between the 8 and a 2.5 X-type sports as she loves jags. I think 2nd hand XJS or something when we fancy a 2nd car will be the biz.

mikthe20

Hi Rob, yeah I've got the Celica brochure and stuff, and the dealer's just up the road. I actually think they look really good too. Just a bit, erm...girlie! Must admit I still like the old one too - makes a very good second hand buy.

I deliberately didn't include any Jags because I think Jaguar design is just too retro (a bit like the Rover 75). It's a real shame and I can't understand why Jaguar have done it. I'll wait till I'm in my 50s before I get one. Look at the new XJ - wonderful chassis, aluminium body, handles superbly, great engines, good technology, but looks just like a car designed 30 years ago. The X-Type was a real missed opportunity IMO - started with a great chassis from the Mondeo and again put a retro body on top and made it 4 wheel driver (and heavy and slow) just to differentiate it. Gotta agree, an XJS makes a great second car.

MarkW

Hi Mik

Just wondering where the above info was reported, as I havent heard this comment before?

BTW I test drove a Celica 190 a couple of years ago and it didnt really do it for me. Back to image again, but I mostly see women driving these - not sure if they are hiardressers though

oilman

Rael,

Chill out, I've never stopped a thread in my life (that's Jimbobjoe's domain isn't it - RESPECT )

At least this one's got us chattering again:D

Anyway, are we all in agreement

Does the RX8 have any direct peers

Let's hope not:D

Cheers
Oilman

18ME

Just a slightly different direction as to the competition.

Did anyone see the Mazda 6 MPS at the Motorshow. It was there for trade and preview day then uplifted away from the general public. Personally I thought it looked superb in a beefed up sort of way and apparently will have 280bhp when it comes out.

Unless Mazda decide not to release it as it may take sales away from the RX8.

mikthe20

Mark, I've just found where I read it - Autocar Magazine, 23rd April issue (ie. this week's) in Steve Cropley's diary section (much respected and IMO a real motoring enthusiast) on page 39. He basically writes what he did each day the week previously (in terms of cars that is!). Anyway, he was over in Japan and writes about that. The interesting bit is as follows:

"Great to see so many Nissan 350Zs and Mazda RX-8s on the street, though [his previous paragraph was saying how many Bentley's BMWs, Porsches and S-Classes were on the streets of Tokyo]. The Z is an instant hit, and there's nothing like reflections of Tokyo's bright lights to show off its sinuous flanks. The RX is doing OK, but 'radical' young males don't appreciate all the hard-won rear space."

I think "doing OK" means it hasn't taken off as perhaps Mazda hoped. But that's fine by me - I don't want them to be too common! The problem for the RX-8 is that it is not a traditional design - I love that, and most of us here do of course. However, it means that a lot of people just don't "get it". It'll have to create a niche of its own - 4-seater sports car. As I say, the Fiat Coupe did that pretty successfully in the mid '90s (they sold twice as many as forecast), but it'll probably take people time to realise what a great car it is and that it strides more than one category.

rael

Certainly in this country there has been a complete absence of media advertising and besides the odd car review the public probably does not know the car exists.

Once the car is on the road later this year, UK car reviews are written or updated and Mazda put the RX8 into their TV ads then we may see a lot more interest but I agree that the concept of a sporty coupe with full 4 seats plus proper (or nearly) 4 doors is new and those used to sitting in a cramped 2 seater will onlt slowly accept. The reviews suggest that once in the driving seat the driver is completey unaware of the back seats as it has such a sporty mobile drive.

Due to its layout should we even add in the old Jag XJS or new even XK (good size 2 + 2) into the equation (although substantial price gap)?

rael.

mikthe20

Good points rael. I actually think it's good Mazda haven't hyped it up yet - what's the point if people can't have a test drive. I personally wouldn't buy a car without sitting in it first (Mainly because I'm quite broad-shouldered and find it difficult getting comfortable in a lot of cars). I'd expect Mazda would turn on the avertising in late June/early July, but it is really a niche product and so they may not want to spend a fortune advertising it - there aren't many ads for the Celica for example.

Agree the XJS is very close in style, but I think we'd better keep out-of-production cars of out it. XK probably fits though, but then we could also include the Maserati, Porsche and others too if we're not careful. Here's another option - Peugeot Coupe?

RobDickinson

Peugeot Coupe... Rare I'd give it that...not bad looking either. Little on the large(and oldish) side.

£26k for 210bhp and 60 in 7.7 roughly 1500 kerb weigth.

"The 406 is designed as grand tourer rather than out-and-out sports coupé, but that doesn't mean it can't handle a twisty road with aplomb. Keen drivers will enjoy its responsive steering and agile cornering, the less enthusiastic the reassurance of its excellent roadholding and stability on motorways. " Autotrader 1999 test.

oilman

May 2003 Top Gear Magazine.

There is a write up on Chrysler Crossfire.

It says Rivals: Audi TT V6, Nissan 350Z & Mazda RX8!

Here we go, just my point.

RX8 is the only one with 4 seats / 4 doors and the only one under
£26000. It's also the best looking IMHO!

I rest my case (rant,rant,rant)

Cheers
OILMAN:o