BHP Rumor Mill - Update
08-15-2003, 04:45 AM
#27
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Odd isn't it ? Rotary is my main reason for buying the car (but then I have experienced them before) and others would rather have a 4-pot.
RX8 is only possible because of the size/mass/location of the rotary.
Another interesting point (desperately trying to find a positive spin on ep3s brief visit) is the thought that the RX8 and CivicR are competitors.
Civic is an amazing price/performance package , no doubt. But it is not really in the same league is it ? Looks are questionable and it does not exactly have the spec of previous typeRs , but it is produced to a price, from a bodyshell which ( to be kind) is not ideally suited for a performance car.
What I mean to say is that I would not have thought that CTR drivers would be 'into' the whole RX8 concept.... In a world where performance is all I would have expected then to gravitate toward Scooby/Evo type things....
Final point - How the hell has it taken so long for him to find out this info ? Surely someone does not order a £22K car and then not bother keeping up to date on developments do they ? Surely he has had the letters etc... ?
Or is the whole thing a hoax...? I smell a rat - I think we have maybe been duped !
RX8 is only possible because of the size/mass/location of the rotary.
Another interesting point (desperately trying to find a positive spin on ep3s brief visit) is the thought that the RX8 and CivicR are competitors.
Civic is an amazing price/performance package , no doubt. But it is not really in the same league is it ? Looks are questionable and it does not exactly have the spec of previous typeRs , but it is produced to a price, from a bodyshell which ( to be kind) is not ideally suited for a performance car.
What I mean to say is that I would not have thought that CTR drivers would be 'into' the whole RX8 concept.... In a world where performance is all I would have expected then to gravitate toward Scooby/Evo type things....
Final point - How the hell has it taken so long for him to find out this info ? Surely someone does not order a £22K car and then not bother keeping up to date on developments do they ? Surely he has had the letters etc... ?
Or is the whole thing a hoax...? I smell a rat - I think we have maybe been duped !
08-15-2003, 04:47 AM
#28
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All opinions on the RX-8 are welcome here. If you don't like the car I am interested in hearing about it just as much as hearing from those who love it.
As almost no-one in this group has driven one yet opinions and guesses are all we have !
BUT.
Personal insults will not be tolerated from anyone. If this thread doesn't get back on track pretty damn quick it WILL be closed.
So who else thinks that the 9bhp drop in a car we've never driven is reason enough to cancel ?
:p
As almost no-one in this group has driven one yet opinions and guesses are all we have !
BUT.
Personal insults will not be tolerated from anyone. If this thread doesn't get back on track pretty damn quick it WILL be closed.
So who else thinks that the 9bhp drop in a car we've never driven is reason enough to cancel ?
:p
08-15-2003, 04:50 AM
#29
I'd say the Civic TypeR is a competitor is some ways.
Its fast, seats 4 etc - and is more practical. But made out of a hella ugly econobox.
But - as for a lot of the 'competition' I wanted rear wheel drive.
This discounts the breadvanTypeR, Alfa GTA's, Focus ST170/RS, leon CupraR's etc.
RWD is a rare thing now
I alseo wanted a purpose built car, not a suped up family car.
Its fast, seats 4 etc - and is more practical. But made out of a hella ugly econobox.
But - as for a lot of the 'competition' I wanted rear wheel drive.
This discounts the breadvanTypeR, Alfa GTA's, Focus ST170/RS, leon CupraR's etc.
RWD is a rare thing now
I alseo wanted a purpose built car, not a suped up family car.
08-15-2003, 05:26 AM
#31
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ep3, I hear what you are saying, but if you put a 4 pot in, you'd not be able to put it behind the front wheels and so low down. Remember that whilst the Rotary has negatives (torque and economy) it is a very small and light engine with low vibration.
08-15-2003, 08:55 AM
#32
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Originally posted by jimbobjoe
All opinions on the RX-8 are welcome here. If you don't like the car I am interested in hearing about it just as much as hearing from those who love it.
As almost no-one in this group has driven one yet opinions and guesses are all we have !
BUT.
Personal insults will not be tolerated from anyone. If this thread doesn't get back on track pretty damn quick it WILL be closed.
So who else thinks that the 9bhp drop in a car we've never driven is reason enough to cancel ?
:p
All opinions on the RX-8 are welcome here. If you don't like the car I am interested in hearing about it just as much as hearing from those who love it.
As almost no-one in this group has driven one yet opinions and guesses are all we have !
BUT.
Personal insults will not be tolerated from anyone. If this thread doesn't get back on track pretty damn quick it WILL be closed.
So who else thinks that the 9bhp drop in a car we've never driven is reason enough to cancel ?
:p
The difference is that most of us here have 'got over' the 9bhp loss for now, but we still want to drive the car before we part with our money.
To Ciaran this is obviously a big issue and he is perfectly entitled to state his opinion and cancel his order.
Having said that, the RX8 still has 30bhp more than the CTR, and in MY opinion looks like a sports car not a bread van. For the extra money you also get far more in terms of specification: Xenons, 18"s, Bose Stereo, Climate, Freestyle doors etc etc.
Would also like to point out that the S2000 is 237bhp, not 250bhp as stated, and who is to say it meets Euro IV anyway?
Bottom line is if you dont like the car, and/or you cant afford the fuel bills then just dont buy it.
If you want a fast 4-pot instead you can buy my STi for around £18k in October!
08-15-2003, 09:05 AM
#33
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Originally posted by ep3
Let me tell you, regardless of being either a Mazda or a rotary, if you're prepared to invest in a car that has an engine that they couldn't even develop (with all Ford's billions) to meet Euro 4 emissions and still give 250hp is quite pathetic for a *brand* new vehicle in this day and age.
Honda did it years ago without breaking a sweat on 2 litre engine (the s2000) and still give over 30 mgp combined. Why can't Mazda?
Let me tell you, regardless of being either a Mazda or a rotary, if you're prepared to invest in a car that has an engine that they couldn't even develop (with all Ford's billions) to meet Euro 4 emissions and still give 250hp is quite pathetic for a *brand* new vehicle in this day and age.
Honda did it years ago without breaking a sweat on 2 litre engine (the s2000) and still give over 30 mgp combined. Why can't Mazda?
As for Honda not breaking sweat on the S2000 engine. Honda are probably the world's greatest engine manufacturer and that engine is an astonishing piece of work even by their standards. But it's very coarse and noisy (much more so than your Civic Type-R) which is just no good for an engine that you have to rev to get any performance out of.
I'm not infatuated by the rotary (I've never driven one!). I admit the fuel consumption is terrible. But if it really does produce in the region of 230 hp (and thats a big "if" at the moment) then I'm at least going to wait until I can drive one before I decide.
08-15-2003, 09:38 AM
#34
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Hang on.... I never suggested this thread should be closed because of someones opinion on the car, but as it got personal, then this is something that really shouldnt be advocated.
08-15-2003, 09:52 AM
#35
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Originally posted by ep3
You guys are all missing the poitn really. You're all blinded by your (somewhat misguided) love of either Mazda or Rotaries.
Let me tell you, regardless of being either a Mazda or a rotary, if you're prepared to invest in a car that has an engine that they couldn't even develop (with all Ford's billions) to meet Euro 4 emissions and still give 250hp is quite pathetic for a *brand* new vehicle in this day and age.
Honda did it years ago without breaking a sweat on 2 litre engine (the s2000) and still give over 30 mgp combined. Why can't Mazda?
All Mazda's words about how much effort they've put into the development of the RENESIS falls flat on it's face when you look at...
Power: 231ps (if you're lucky - not to mention 20%+ trans loss)
Torque: 200nm (again if you're lucky)
Economy: 24mpg combined (more like 20mpg for most)
I mean it's got the economy of an NA 4 litre V8 with nowhere near the power/torque. How this engine won 3 categories in the engine of the year is beyond me...how many palms did they have to grease to get that?
Just think about this, if this wasn't a Mazda or a Rotary and you saw those figures (from the start), I think most people would have baulked.
So, drop out the rotary and put a nicely tuned alloy 2 litre 4-potter...problem solved.
Anyway, you guys are obviously converted and wont hear sense, so, I'm gonna bow out of this forum and leave you to your delusions.
Ciaran.
PS - Anyone looking to jump the queue on a pre-order for hi (haha) power version (Silver/Cloth/Met Paint) then call Peter Jarmaine of Newbury Mazda sometime after 3pm (gmt) today...you can have mine.
You guys are all missing the poitn really. You're all blinded by your (somewhat misguided) love of either Mazda or Rotaries.
Let me tell you, regardless of being either a Mazda or a rotary, if you're prepared to invest in a car that has an engine that they couldn't even develop (with all Ford's billions) to meet Euro 4 emissions and still give 250hp is quite pathetic for a *brand* new vehicle in this day and age.
Honda did it years ago without breaking a sweat on 2 litre engine (the s2000) and still give over 30 mgp combined. Why can't Mazda?
All Mazda's words about how much effort they've put into the development of the RENESIS falls flat on it's face when you look at...
Power: 231ps (if you're lucky - not to mention 20%+ trans loss)
Torque: 200nm (again if you're lucky)
Economy: 24mpg combined (more like 20mpg for most)
I mean it's got the economy of an NA 4 litre V8 with nowhere near the power/torque. How this engine won 3 categories in the engine of the year is beyond me...how many palms did they have to grease to get that?
Just think about this, if this wasn't a Mazda or a Rotary and you saw those figures (from the start), I think most people would have baulked.
So, drop out the rotary and put a nicely tuned alloy 2 litre 4-potter...problem solved.
Anyway, you guys are obviously converted and wont hear sense, so, I'm gonna bow out of this forum and leave you to your delusions.
Ciaran.
PS - Anyone looking to jump the queue on a pre-order for hi (haha) power version (Silver/Cloth/Met Paint) then call Peter Jarmaine of Newbury Mazda sometime after 3pm (gmt) today...you can have mine.
Why are you trolling this place with useless posts. we know about the power loss.
How can anyone slag off the Renesis engine when they know so little about it?????
The whole attraction of this car is that it develops 231bhp from a twin rotor innovative engine, which Mazda have put alot of effort into developing.
08-15-2003, 09:57 AM
#36
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You think the S2000 is course and noisy - try my IntegraR !
Awesome engine , but I am the first to admit it aint the smoothest....
I dont think anyone is annoyed that ep3 feels this way - each to their own. It is the presentation manner and the lack of actual content/experience behind it that grated !
I struggle to see what more could possibly be expected of a £22K car ... Just look at the kit , the spec , the performance, in a purpose built RWD car. Nothing can touch it. (and certainly not a Civic R).
Awesome engine , but I am the first to admit it aint the smoothest....
I dont think anyone is annoyed that ep3 feels this way - each to their own. It is the presentation manner and the lack of actual content/experience behind it that grated !
I struggle to see what more could possibly be expected of a £22K car ... Just look at the kit , the spec , the performance, in a purpose built RWD car. Nothing can touch it. (and certainly not a Civic R).
08-15-2003, 10:28 AM
#37
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guys,
I think we have exhausted this one. I doubt there was any intention other than to rile and wind the group up.
Yes as Morgan states everyone is entitled to there opinion, the presentation of thus is critical, and in this case the presentation was as bad as Mazda's own PR on the 8.
However i do not condone personal attack except at Mazda
:D
I think we have exhausted this one. I doubt there was any intention other than to rile and wind the group up.
Yes as Morgan states everyone is entitled to there opinion, the presentation of thus is critical, and in this case the presentation was as bad as Mazda's own PR on the 8.
However i do not condone personal attack except at Mazda
:D
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