Where to get premix apart from ebay?
Where to get premix apart from ebay?
01-27-2017, 09:08 PM
#3
Canadian Tire usually has Lucas Synthetic 2-stroke, FD rated. You can always order Protec-R from from Pettit directly, but it will cowt you coming over the border. If you have a bike or rotax shop nearby, they should have a healthy supply of Klotz technoplate as well.
01-28-2017, 08:00 PM
#6
Registered
Hi folks
Not saying this is good, but if Mazda want conventional oil in the sump and inject it into the chambers why is there so much concern about using some special stuff if running a bit extra as premix?
Maybe I will regret using cheap Castrol snowmobile oil in my R3, (adding 200cc when filling), but somehow I doubt it, especially with my low annual mileage..
What do you think?
Regards
Trevor T
Not saying this is good, but if Mazda want conventional oil in the sump and inject it into the chambers why is there so much concern about using some special stuff if running a bit extra as premix?
Maybe I will regret using cheap Castrol snowmobile oil in my R3, (adding 200cc when filling), but somehow I doubt it, especially with my low annual mileage..
What do you think?
Regards
Trevor T
02-28-2017, 06:48 PM
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02-28-2017, 07:36 PM
#10
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why not tc3? Two stroke.
Since you asked......
I can just re-post this from 2005 -
I use a good 2-stroke oil (ISO-EGD rated, and definitely not boat oil TCW-3)
TCW oil is for boats, so let's compare a boat engine and a rotary engine -
Outboards run in lakes and use a once-thru cooling system; this means the water jacket has no problem maintaining the cylinder wall temp around 5 degrees C, and the ring-land temp well below250 degrees. An 'ashless' oil is a very heavy basestock, with nitrogen based hydrazine as a wear protector. Hydrazine only works well at these really cool temps and vaporizes leaving no 'ash'.
TCW is designed to be run in high ratios (30:1) and not to burn, but to be slobbered out into the lake - hence the addition of biodegrading agents, which hurt lubricity.
The term 'ashless' is a total misnomer - if the oil does actually burn it can leave horrendous carbon deposits.
TCW is not designed to be run in hot-running, highly tuned, highly stressed or high revving motors.
Boat engine designs cannot have reed valves, catalytic convertors or anything else that can get gummed up.
A modern two stroke engine (Rotax or Skidoo) uses an oil that admittedly produces an white powdery metallic 'ash' when it burns, but this is not a problem due to the velocities in the chamber. (nobody has ever seen an engine clog up with white powder!) and their makers warranties absolutely forbid the use of TCW - it is just not up to the job.
The rotor in our engine runs hot, revs very high and has lots of small gaps and seals to hold carbon and gunk. It has much more in common with a Rotax type of two-stroke rather than an outboard.
The single job of our oil is to prevent the tip seals wearing away the chrome from the housings.
We need an oil that burns away leaving minimal deposits, but essentially has the highest lubricity.
The JASO series of oil tests is fascinating reading, even if you know the subject - they use Yamaha 200cc test engines and basically run them on leaner and leaner ratios until they seize, then extrapolate how well the oil protected the internals, how much smoke was produced, deposits etc.
I do have a little background in lubrication, thirty plus years in a synthetics refinery.
I would however be interested in the opinions of any experienced rotary mechanics, who have examined wear patterns on housings; I think that if the oil film protection seen around and after the injection points could be achieved all around the circumference of the chromed face, the results would be tangible. The chrome surface has been electro-perforated, to form a matrix for the oil to adsorb into, but there is just insufficient oil present, from the stock pump, to achieve these benefits.
S
(Since you are in Canada, you could pick up some very good 'Mystic' two-stroke, top-rated 'JASO-FD' by the Japanese standard, at Canuckian Tire. It's about $25 for the 5 liter jug.)
Since you asked......
I can just re-post this from 2005 -
I use a good 2-stroke oil (ISO-EGD rated, and definitely not boat oil TCW-3)
TCW oil is for boats, so let's compare a boat engine and a rotary engine -
Outboards run in lakes and use a once-thru cooling system; this means the water jacket has no problem maintaining the cylinder wall temp around 5 degrees C, and the ring-land temp well below250 degrees. An 'ashless' oil is a very heavy basestock, with nitrogen based hydrazine as a wear protector. Hydrazine only works well at these really cool temps and vaporizes leaving no 'ash'.
TCW is designed to be run in high ratios (30:1) and not to burn, but to be slobbered out into the lake - hence the addition of biodegrading agents, which hurt lubricity.
The term 'ashless' is a total misnomer - if the oil does actually burn it can leave horrendous carbon deposits.
TCW is not designed to be run in hot-running, highly tuned, highly stressed or high revving motors.
Boat engine designs cannot have reed valves, catalytic convertors or anything else that can get gummed up.
A modern two stroke engine (Rotax or Skidoo) uses an oil that admittedly produces an white powdery metallic 'ash' when it burns, but this is not a problem due to the velocities in the chamber. (nobody has ever seen an engine clog up with white powder!) and their makers warranties absolutely forbid the use of TCW - it is just not up to the job.
The rotor in our engine runs hot, revs very high and has lots of small gaps and seals to hold carbon and gunk. It has much more in common with a Rotax type of two-stroke rather than an outboard.
The single job of our oil is to prevent the tip seals wearing away the chrome from the housings.
We need an oil that burns away leaving minimal deposits, but essentially has the highest lubricity.
The JASO series of oil tests is fascinating reading, even if you know the subject - they use Yamaha 200cc test engines and basically run them on leaner and leaner ratios until they seize, then extrapolate how well the oil protected the internals, how much smoke was produced, deposits etc.
I do have a little background in lubrication, thirty plus years in a synthetics refinery.
I would however be interested in the opinions of any experienced rotary mechanics, who have examined wear patterns on housings; I think that if the oil film protection seen around and after the injection points could be achieved all around the circumference of the chromed face, the results would be tangible. The chrome surface has been electro-perforated, to form a matrix for the oil to adsorb into, but there is just insufficient oil present, from the stock pump, to achieve these benefits.
S
(Since you are in Canada, you could pick up some very good 'Mystic' two-stroke, top-rated 'JASO-FD' by the Japanese standard, at Canuckian Tire. It's about $25 for the 5 liter jug.)
03-06-2017, 05:57 PM
#12
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I don't premix, but thinking of starting. I'm second owner of a totally stock 2004 with about 56,000km. I don't dd my rx8 as I have a company car. I only take it out on weekends when the weather is nice and is stored in the Winter. I put less than 5000km on it per year. Anyway, just wondering if the premix will settle in the tank if it isn't driven very often?
03-06-2017, 09:57 PM
#14
I don't know about leaving it in the tank for weeks on end. But I did run some in my '04. I usually run the tank out in about 3 or 4 weeks. But this time, I did have a reasonable length trip to speed my gas consumption. My current concern is whether or not using the premix will increase the oil/carbon residue and negatively impact my SSV. I do plan to use the premix sparingly, say every 4 to 6 months or so. And when I do, I'll try to plan it around any long trips I might take so it doesn't sit in the tank terribly long. I'm always looking to learn better ways to care for the 8.
03-06-2017, 11:07 PM
#15
b) what's the point of premixing every 4 months? It's not doing you any good sitting in the bottle :/
03-07-2017, 01:19 AM
#16
* most people that ad premix add it at around 200:1
*My experience is that 200:1 isn't enough to do jack **** . Min effective dose is 128:1 (1oz/gal)
*adding 128:1 or more on top of what the omp does is a boat load of oil and makes for a smokey exhaust.
*With some tweaking of injection rates the omp works great and is more effective in the areas that need it than premix.
My Conclusion : Either increase injection rate and don't add premix,or, disable/seriously reduce omp rate and premix at 128:1 minimum.
*My experience is that 200:1 isn't enough to do jack **** . Min effective dose is 128:1 (1oz/gal)
*adding 128:1 or more on top of what the omp does is a boat load of oil and makes for a smokey exhaust.
*With some tweaking of injection rates the omp works great and is more effective in the areas that need it than premix.
My Conclusion : Either increase injection rate and don't add premix,or, disable/seriously reduce omp rate and premix at 128:1 minimum.
04-26-2017, 11:55 AM
#18
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I've been using Amsoil Saber for a few years. I order from Amsoil directly, they have a customer loyalty discount. I have also seen 2 stroke Royal purple at some Canadian tires and part source store
04-30-2017, 08:33 AM
#19
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I ordered Idemitsu from Mazdatrix back in the day but shipping a case is pricey (same price as the oil itself).
Since getting tuned by Brettus and as per his comment above I rarely use premix anymore though.
Since getting tuned by Brettus and as per his comment above I rarely use premix anymore though.
04-09-2018, 11:49 AM
#20
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about Lordco discount
FYI: Just last weekend, I tried with a Lordco account, got the standard 30% finaly, after the discount , the price still not very attractive, just similar as the competitorsl ike NAPA or Canadiantire etc.
04-11-2018, 08:45 PM
#22
Smoking turbo yay
Personally, I have bought a case of 12 bottles(1L each) of Idemitsu Premix from Rx7 Specialties in Alberta. While the US has some better prices, you pay shipping and duties through your nose so the cost winds up being a bit cheaper when I buy from RX7 Specialties. I think it's CAN$200 for a case + $50 shipping with Greyhound.
Haven't seen any very good choices in the local Canadian Tires.
Haven't seen any very good choices in the local Canadian Tires.
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04-12-2018, 09:24 AM
#24
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Personally, I have bought a case of 12 bottles(1L each) of Idemitsu Premix from Rx7 Specialties in Alberta. While the US has some better prices, you pay shipping and duties through your nose so the cost winds up being a bit cheaper when I buy from RX7 Specialties. I think it's CAN$200 for a case + $50 shipping with Greyhound.
Haven't seen any very good choices in the local Canadian Tires.
Haven't seen any very good choices in the local Canadian Tires.
04-14-2018, 12:46 AM
#25
Smoking turbo yay
Just checked their website and the price has dropped to CAN$160ish a case, which is pretty good. You can probably save shipping as well, but CAN$50 for shipping is not terrible considering the weight and size of a case, and the Greyhound shipping is surprisingly fast.
Will probably have to order more myself soon since I am running low on them.