Gord96BRG

No, that doesn't help - it's electronic snake oil. They claim cathodic protection, but the electrochemical reactions of automobile rust are entirely different from pipelines, buildings, boats, etc. that genuinely benefit from cathodic protection.

Cars are built so much better these days that rust is not much of an issue anymore. My RX-8 is my winter beater - I do park my supercharged Miata in winter, but for other reasons. I love driving the RX-8, so why lose 5 months of driving pleasure and drive a piece of crap? Life is too short to drive boring cars - especially for 5 months per year, every year, when you've got a fun car stored away! We have an Audi allroad (quattro AWD) that also gets fitted with winter tires, but I much prefer driving the RX-8 in winter. This winter, I will also have another Miata with winter tires, so I expect to drive that a lot too - it's even more fun to drive than the RX-8.

Once again, life is too short to drive boring cars! Enjoy the car you paid big bucks for - and then, 6 or 8 years later, trade it in on an even more exciting and fun car!

scoop

Not sure how a light car with big fat tires, rear wheel drive, oodles of power and no ground clearance makes one safe unless you just want to be a target and let the air bags defend you ;-) In bad weather this all adds up to poor acceleration, poor braking, poor turning and the possibility of getting stuck/hung up. The vast majority of other cars on the road will handle better, simple physics. Performance may be passable if one only drives inside a major city where the roads are bare 95% of the time or where the winters and not that severe. I will take my ancient 1990 Audi 90 winter car with skinny little Hakkas any day before the 8 in winter, it is safer in terms of collision avoidance and if some moron decides to take me out, oh well . . .

Gord96BRG

First tip - you do NOT drive an RX-8 in winter on stock summer tires. Duh. You put 4 winter tires on it, ideally 1 width narrower than stock (ie 215/55-17 instead of 225/50-17 or 225/45-18).

Do that, and there goes your whole argument. I would guarantee that an RX-8 on winter tires will handle better than 80% of the cars on the road in winter, simply because they're FWD on all-season tires. THAT is simple physics! (and math! )

What does light car have to do with anything? Aside from weight = bad, whether dry pavement or wet pavement or snow/ice covered pavement. Lighter = better handling, acceleration, braking. Doesn't matter how much traction. Do this simple test - put your RX-8 in neutral on level ground, try to push it. Now find a 4000 lb tank car, put in neutral on level ground, try to push it. Which is easier? (there's more simple physics for you). Now throw a layer of ice and a couple of inches of snow on the ground, put on your snow boots, and do the same. Which is easier to push? Again, Duh. The lighter one. Simple physics. Now, get each car rolling, then run in front and try to stop them yourself. You know where that's going now, don't you? The lighter car is easier to stop.

So, the fact is (based on actual physics) that a relatively light car with proper winter tires will in fact stop quicker, handle better, accelerate better, and brake better than a heavier car. Throw in a low torque engine that makes it easy to control power to the ground, ABS, traction control, stability control, headlight washers, and the RX-8 in fact makes a GREAT winter car.

scoop

I made no assumption that anybody would be silly enough to drive the car on summer tires in the snow, that would be an extremely stupid thing to do . . . A 215 width snow tire is still too wide IMO to give you enough weight concentration for snow. There is always going to be a balance to stike there between snow traction for dry traction and I lean toward the extreme weather side because I tend to go long distances and ski a lot in winter.
Well you get no arguement from me that the majority of all season tires suck in winter. But placing an engine on top of some relatively narrow all season tire might give you more grip than a better balanced car with wider tires with less weight concentration even if they are better. Put four good winters tires on a small FWD car and the changes the game even more, that was sort of my assumption but you are right, most people don't do that.
I agree with you 100% on this. What I was getting at was weight concentration on the contact patch of the tire. i.e. a 215 width tire would be suitable for a much heavier car, e.g. my Subaru Outback has those for winter and even then it's almost too much tire. Goes great in a straight line but understeer is more pronounced on fatter tires, it previously had 225 snows.
Agreed . . .
Not so sure about this part, I kept sliding back end out on my in rain with the stock tires, granted they were badly heat cycled and very hard, the new tires behave MUCH better. Of all the manual transmission cars I have owned (all VW & Audis) this has got to be the hardest one to control the power to the ground. It can be done but it's more tricky. It's a fantastic car to drive on the open road but I find it kind of clunky if you try to drive it grandma style at low speed with low RPM shifts, maybe it's just me . . .
All good things except maybe the hood washers :-) GREAT, I don't know, I would take it over a huge honken SUV or some other pathetic handling vehicle any day though. Wouldn't step from an Audi or Subaru into it though and past experience with small VWs with snows was pretty good. In the end it's all relative, every day that the roads are clear you will have more fun than me . . . Anyhow more than the handling issue is the salt and sand issue here, it's pretty bad and I don't want the finish sand blasted off the car just yet . . .

rotten42

BINGO!!! My thought exactly.

If I was going to spend 2K on a beater, I'd just use that money to paint my car in a couple of years. It's an RX8 not a Ferrari...DRIVE IT!!! It's afun car to drive in the winter.



Gord you needed to add:

Life is too short to drive a front wheel drive car.

Gord96BRG

OK, it actually sounds like we're not far apart here!
Yup. Problem with winter tires is that 215 is about the narrowest you can find in a 17" with the same diameter. I know one or two people went with 205/50-17s, but then they're sacrificing ground clearance. BTW, I know about driving to ski too - I spent 15 years on the Canadian Ski Patrol at Lake Louise, driving Calgary to LL about 30 days a winter! I have taken the RX-8 skiing quite a few times.

I've got an Audi allroad with Michelin Pilot Alpins in winter; I usually prefer driving the RX-8 on it's winter tires unless the snow is really deep! The RX-8 is simply much more fun to drive, very controllable, and safe handling.

Rotator

Observations of the 8 in the snow.
Drive it!
Why is it most Hiway Patrol Vehicles are RWD?

Pirelli Asimettrico 240 V Rated - Stock Size - 225/40/R18 mounted to factory wheels.

These tires are more suited to packed snow/ice and cold dry/wet roads - they don't have good tread for deep snow.
Since I live in Toronto and do the occassional road trip in winter - good comprimise.
They are very quiet and ride really nice.
Sidewall stifeness is good below 5C.

SNOW FEEL - RX-8
Initial traction - horrible - I can't climb a very slight grade
Stopping - Not too bad - just think like you are driving a truck
Tracking - under power the tail wags a bit - nothing more than a few inches
Turning - Under power will favor turning left. Just keep DSC on - steer in the direction you want to go and listen to the electronics work their magic.
Clearance - Never an issue with stock ride height.

SNOW FEEL - AWD Talon with Dunlop FM901 Summer tires - down to almost the wear marks
Initial Traction - fantastic
Stopping - think truck
Tracking - straight as an arrow
Turning - not so much
Clearance - except for the huge cat, and FMIC - not really a problem

One stormy day in Toronto I was having a hell of a time with the RX-8.
Parking was a bitch - I would get stuck pretty much everywhere.
I think we had about 15-20cm of stuff.
I was sliding all over the place.

My buddy with a CRV on all seasons had no such problem.

I attributed this to the tires alone not liking that type of snow.
No big deal. As it only happened once.

I have gotten used to the way the 8 handles in the snow.
I can with confidence take off DSC and traction control and thanks to the 50-50 distribution and LSD have a blast with the car keeping throttle induced drift angles without concern about spinning.
The way the car feels, and handles - It really is quite a safe car in the winter.

My biggest concern is all those guys with AWD cars and summer tires

Talking Physics -
You want the lightest possible car with the best possible grip.
Momentum is your enemy in low traction conditions. Actually in every dynamic condition. Think ariel atom.
AWD only helps acceleration
FWD only helps acceleration

Go ahead and enjoy your beaters.
I'll be in the RX-8 with a smile on my face, tunes playing, and keeping my foot in it to hear the next BEEP.

rotten42

I put snow tires on my stock rims and they work great. I've never had a problem with traction.