Doesn't the SSV open at 3250rpm, wouldnt that effect the MAF earlier than 6500? I could see maybe the APV valves having an issue but these are all assumptions haha

Also I notice you have higher AFR and slightly more retarted timing of L spark plugs. Could the engine load and therefore MAF be a result of different tunes or does the timing always vary depending upon conditions and from car to car?

I cleaned my TB and MAF also last night, logged 199g/s now. They were both pretty dirty so it may be worth giving the engine a seafoam clean. Did you give seafoam a try Brew?

Also it would be sweet if you guys found some quiet highway one night and did side by side 3rd gear pulls to see how much different your cars are running. :wink2:

WCS and I planned a seafoam day but had no real idea how to use the liquid vs. the spray... so now I know and we'll do it this week sometime I guess....
I figured out that my VFAD is stuck open
The SSV actuator works
onto the APVs

I stand corrected sir.
Sorry about that.
SSV = 3250
APV = 6250
VDI = 7500

Sooooo .... could be either the APV or the VDI not behaving

I think VFad is more of a sound deadening thing anyway.... I also have no clue about how to seafoam, if it does wonders for your car I'll look at a DIY, haha I'm assumine our cars have the same issues so I'm kinda piggybacking off of you Brew. :o:

I don't want to bring this up and jynx it or something but have you ever had your compression checked? I bought my car in August 2008 with 13000kms on it and the dealership said they checked mine but would low g/s be a sign of low compression? I know our maf isnt too too low but just throwing it out there. If we have low compression in Canada will they still replace our engines like they do in the states?

Turbo is going in in 3 weeks, need to get to the bottom of this...

The Doctor say track your 8 once or twice a month and you'll have no need seaform. And it's a hell of a lot more fun. WOT for a few hours and that nasty carbon is all gone.

I'm pretty sure that low compression affects idle and starting more than high RPM airflow.
If your airflow reading was wrong then your mixture would be wrong... and my MAF was checked by MM against a calibrated dyno system. (sorry, I'm not sure of the technical jargon here) so I think it's okay.
BTW, Re: VFAD stuck open... tried to pull it with the vacuum pump before realizing it was wide open, oh well. no big deal. I think something in there was leaking because it would not hold vacuum consistently.
The seafoam is done differently in Canadian dealerships.
They attach a vacuum hose to the nipple on the LIM for each rotor. With the engine running they let each rotor suck in the seafoam. (there's a bit of a trick to this) This gets repeated for the next rotor. So the dealer tech told me....

I wish I had a turbo going in :(

Edit: This morning I recorded 206g/s in a second gear pull to red line.... It was only 77 degrees IAT vs. 100 or so before... so maybe it's nothing. :dunno:
I'm gong to get a cap for the VFAD vacuum since it's stuck open anyway. I'll remove the entire thing when I get a chance to take the nose off.
And I just missed the RB ram air intake that was for sale :(

I agree and I'd love to do this if there was a track near me :dunno:


Your saying that the Dyno MAF reading coincided with the MAF reading from your AP?

I think VFAD would have no effect on the issure we are having....

One day.... one day :aroused:

206 that sounds great... but still somewhat low isn't it? Could definitely be due to the weather, I will try logging my maf later at night if it drops down to some temperatures in the teens and see if I get the same results.

How are you able to tell ur Vfad is stuck open without taking the bumper off?

I'm saying that MM calibrated my MAF by changing the MAF scaling in the ECU

Unless it is creating a big vacuum leak over 5500 RPM. Being stuck open it has no effect on airflow but something is leaking vacuum.

Still low airflow but the VFAD is still hooked up till I find a vacuum cap. I just disassembled and reassembled it...
MAF sensor readings should not change with temperature according to what I found online...
By pulling the airbox and air diverter I was able to see the valve. The vacuum pump could not make it move and I couldn't even pry it loose... I could see light coming through the open end so I knew it was open.

Okay so if it turns out your APV and VDI valves are fine then there is the potential for a vacuum leak? Wouldn't that trigger a CEL?

That makes no sense to me that MAF wouldn't change with temperature... what is the point of CAI then

MAF readings will wander all over the place, depending on weather, altitude, oil quality, etc.

LoL
Oil quality.

Don't forget the skank factor

So I plugged the VFAD vacuum feed and as expected there's no real difference. In warmer part of the day it's running 199 g/s in a third gear pull....

Seafoam and APV check remain.

From my understanding of what I read, the MAF measures airflow and the IAT is used to calculate air density. From this and other inputs the ECU sets fuel and timing.

SHIT! That always gets me; no wonder I'm only getting 199g/s, gotta start getting some standards :lol:

So this is waaay off topic but I needed to ask some guys with Canadian Spec cars... Anyone of you two fella's have your foglights rewired to come on with your parking lights rather than the xenons?

I was reading what you wrote in the DIY thread. And im in Canada and it worked fine. I had both the brown and red/white wires. But then again my 8 is from the states soo that could be why. But either way, regardless of the colour of the wires, w.e is on the fog and acc relay you just connect with a tap. Then cap off the wire on the other end of the fog relay.

I've not done anything with the fogs.
I leave them off because they look ghey and they functionally suck ass

nuff said I suppose lol

Sorry dude don't know anything about wiring them up to running lights

That's why I removed them altogether. Now I gotta find a use for those wires :)

Yeah they work like ass because of the xenons on at the same time haha, looks like an easy enough mod just Canadian spec cars are wired differently. Oh well....

Yeah if you look at my pictures I dont have the brown wire at all... and I rewired the black/white wire to the red/black wire from the tail fuze and nothing changed haha, work exactly like stock :Wconfused

I'm currently messing with the DRL module: I'm trying to repair mine.
There was a Fog light rewire specific to Canadian cars somewhere... Must search :)
I'm hoping to combine some of the info to do something cool....

You should PM Thumper, he helped me get mine done, both of us have American 8s in Canada.

You guys should PM Footman, he had it done to his car, and his is CDN.
You guys should PM Footman or Thumper, they both had it done, Footman's is CDN and Thumper's is American.

You misread my post lol. Mine worked perfectly when i did it. I was just giving him advice. Nice to know im not the only american 8 in canada though :). I hate the headlight washers and waited sooo long to find an 8 without them :)

So we did Seafoam last night...
Added premix... out for a spin.
With the cars warmed up;
We used a modified Seafoam method. We pulled the ESS, put vacuum lines on both LIM nipples and let the engine pull the liquid in. Cranking for 10 seconds at a time, waiting 1 minute in between. One can for each car. After a beer break (an hour or so) we fired up the cars and created a big smoke cloud.
Note: Cranking with ESS disconnected will throw a code so make sure you can clear it.

There was an issue with the other RX-8 involving "spark plug fluid" :lol: but I'll let someone else tell that story!

Also checked: We verified that the APV motor is cycling as the ignition is turned off so it sounds like it's working...

We tried to check the SSV vacuum actuator by running up the RPM in the garage but nothing was moving... Does this need load to activate?

On the way home I ran up the RPMs and still maxed out at 197g/s :(

We'll probably pull the intake manifold next...

Summary:
2004 6MT: Build date March 2004: 125,000 km: Starts well, Runs well, smooth idle, average MPG, no CEL, normal oil consumption.

Low HP on Dyno day. MM said that the MAF max flow was low.
Charted MAF readings against a healthy RX-8: the flow diverges over 6000 RPM
Pulled Cat - no difference
Cleaned MAF, TB and changed air filter. Checked TB operation. - no difference
Vacuum tested the VDI and SSV actuators - working
Removed VFAD crap after finding a vacuum leak. - no difference (VFAD was jammed open)
Seafoamed - no difference
Verified APV motor working.

Supposition
The AFR stays rich so we do not suspect the fuel pump
Starting and idle are very good so we think compression is good

Not verified
Air solenoids under UIM for SSV, VDI
UIM internals (VDI, SSV)
LIM internals (APVs)

The valves aren't meant to actuate at idle because you aren't delivering more airflow, though they will cycle when the ignition is turned off to verify operation and clear carbon.
When you hooked-up the vacuum pump to the actuators, did it hold vacuum for at least 10sec or did it slowly drop?
Did you hook-up the vacuum gauge to the VFAD nipple to get a vacuum reading with the engine running?

When you tested the APV motor, did you cycle it with it installed on the LIM?
I like doing this because you are cycling the valves and its easily audible to tell that they are moving.

I saw you posted 206g/s in 2nd gear, WOT to redline.
My last log in the same gear, WOT to redline, was 210g/s.
So I think you're fine there bud.

The APVs were checked with the shutdown self test cycle, in place on the manifold. I could hear and feel movement .

My normal pull to redline is 195 to 199 g/s. One time I recorded 206 g/s and cannot explain that. I had been working on the VFAD at the time.

I am down on power and if you check my dyno run you'll see that it is all lost at the top end. Since this correlates with the MAF divergence from normal (under identical conditions) this is what I'm tracking at the moment...

I didn't do a vacuum reading test but will do so tonight.

The only vacuum leak issue I saw was that the VFAD seemed to leak vacuum. The other valves seemed to hold but maybe I didn't test them long enough.

Should the SSV actuate based on RPM or does it need load? I had someone watch it while running up the engine and nothing happened... ??

How can I verify operation of the air solenoids under the UIM?

BTW, I posted this info in the troubleshooting thread in hopes that this may be useful to others...