Gord96BRG

I have to give credit where credit is due; in this thread here last month on the New Starter?, I mentioned the hard time Kramer Mazda's service department gave me about a couple of issues. I'd brought the car in for a radio problem (which they could duplicate and ordered a replacement, no hassle); slow warm-up or cooling down while driving problem; broken temp control ****; and hard starting complaint.

Aside from the radio problem, Kramer gave me a hard time about all these issues, and said they couldn't do anything about them - usually because Mazda Canada didn't have an equivalent TSB to Mazda USA. After a healthy discussion, they agreed to raise my issues with Mazda Canada. I was pretty steamed, thinking I'd received a typical dealer blow-off. However, to my surprise and very much to Kramer's credit, they did indeed follow up on all the issues, and were able to get satisfactory warranty-covered solutions approved by Mazda Canada! Here's the details:

Re the temp control **** - they initially ordered a single replacement; I showed them the two TSBs from Mazda USA saying the temp and fan speed ***** had to be replaced as a pair if one of them was broken. Kramer told me Mazda Canada didn't have that TSB, so they could only replace the broken one. After I discussed this with them, they called Mazda Canada, got permission to replace both *****. When they tried to order the fan speed ****, it wasn't available separately, so they ordered the entire climate control panel. That's even better, since aside from weaker ***** on the two dials, the defrost/mode/AC/recirc buttons were also a known weak spot which had a separate TSB. Mine hadn't cracked yet, but with the replacement panel I received the new (stronger) button set as well.

Starter - Initially Kramer told me that Mazda Canada knew nothing of a replacement upgraded starter for slow starting issues. After I forwarded the part number from Tlovr (in that other thread) to them and told them that at least 2 Ontario dealers had installed that replacement starter for identical complaints, they ordered the starter for me. It was installed yesterday (along with these other issues fixed), and there's a definite improvement in the speed at which the starter turns the engine over.

Thermostat - in weather colder than 0C, my car used to have trouble warming up if I was driving at more than 60 - 70 km/h. The temperature gauge used to slowly creep up, then after it was about 80% up to indicated operating temperature, would drop back down, sometimes getting all the way down to the C mark again! If it was doing this, I'd have to stop, or drive below 50 km/h, to let it hit operating temp. Once it was warmed up, it would stay warmed up, but too often it would take a looong time to get there. Those are typical thermostat problem indications, but at first Kramer said they'd have to duplicate the problem before they could replace the thermostat! This issue is what most of the discussion was about after my December service visit (especially when they told me "they all do that", and I almost lost it ), since I would have had to leave the car overnight at the dealer for them to replicate, and even then they'd have to drive it right (ie no stop/go traffic to warm up, they'd have to go straight to highway driving) to duplicate, and they'd want to charge me $20/day for a service loaner car so that I could leave mine with them! Anyway, after speaking with Mazda Canada, they agreed to replace the thermostat without having to duplicate the problem. So far, (drive home and this morning) the car warms up much faster... but I haven't had a chance to see if it gets 80% warm and then cools off yet. Either way, at least Kramer did replace the stat!

Anyway - even though I was initially very dissatisfied with Kramer for that December service visit, they actually did follow up and pursue the issues I had left them with instead of just dismissing my concerns and complaints. Kudos to Debbie, one of their senior service advisors, for her efforts in pursuing Mazda Canada to get satisfactory resolutions to my car's issues; and for calling me several times to let me know the progress of their discussions with Mazda Canada. If they hadn't followed up, I would have remained seriously pissed off and switched to a different dealer. As it is, they impressed me with the fact that they actually listened to me when I disputed their initial conclusions, and they did something about those issues on my behalf.

Thanks again to Kramer Mazda and to Debbie!

Regards,
Gordon

buddman

I know Debbie.... she's great, before the RX8 I had a precidia, so I have been dealing with her for years.... However, that's her. I am still unhappy with Kramer and some of their poor, poor customer service procedures (or lack thereof).

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Gordon,
Have you had a chance to drive on the highway yet? I'm having slow warm up problems and suspect a thermostat. It would be interesting to know if it fixed it.

rotten42

good to here that Kramer stepped up. I've recently switched to them from Sunridge. I also have the slow starte problem that I want to address with them.

herbert

Nice note Gord!
I have the slow warm-up issue as well. It's really only happened a few times and under the conditions that you've mentioned. It's very strange to be driving 80 km/h for 15 minutes and not having the car warm up. Does this issue have other ramifications? Is it bad for the car to run like this? Oh, and does it effect mpg?

Admiral8

Kramer has a new starter for me now after I complained to them a few times about difficult cold start ups.
I'm scheduled to get a new starter installed on Feb 2, 2006.
They've been pretty good about all the service work so far.

rotten42

Admiral8 can you pm me any of the details like how you presented your arguement to them about the issue. My car goes in on Wednesday morning to have this checked.

Admiral8

Hey Rotten,

I didn't really do much.

I brought my car in to have it looked at,
sent a couple emails to the Parts manager and my personal contact at Kramer (I know the used car manager) and couple of phone conversations .

I had mentioned briefly that someone out east experienced similiar issues and was able to get a new starter put in. They were receptive, but made no mention as to whether or not they would comply.

I didn't even know they were going to give me a new starter until I got a phone call from Kramer asking when I'd like to have it done. They told me they'd look into it with Mazda Canada and give me a call back.....I just assumed they were blowing me off.....but to my surprise, it wasn't the case!

SirLeNerd

Gord, that's a real interesting story with the temperature control ****. I recently had mine replaced, but they only replaced the temp control **** not the fan speed ****. Well if they did order them and got the set, they should have had extras :-)

Lenny

Gord96BRG

Rotten, sorry I missed your post before now. I simply complained that when it was cold out, my car was hard to start. The engine turned over slowly on the starter, and that it had nearly flooded on more than one occasion. Then I told them that I understood that Mazda had a new starter part to correct this problem.

Lenny, they were going to get just the temperature control **** for me as well, until I complained. I guess that **** is available separately, but not the fan speed ****. Wierd!

So far the warmup seems better after the temperature change. Faster to reach operating temp, and no cool down periods while it's supposed to be warming up. However, Calgary hasn't been cold since I got this done, around 0 or better every day, so it's not really been put to the test yet!

rotten42

UPDATE!! So I took my car into kramer today for an oil change and for them to look at the hard cold start prblem. I just got my car back and they are going to change my plugs out to the hot ones and replace my starter.


Good stuff. I must say I am much more impressed with Kramer's service department over Sunridge.

Gord96BRG

HEY! What gives?! I didn't get new plugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually, I don't mind. At least I got the starter, and now that they know about it it's nice that they're actually doing the starter upgrade for others now too!

herbert

Hey look. I'm quoting myself. I was kidding about the mpg. Is the slow warm up bad for the car. It's only happened to me a few times but should I have it looked at? Is it bad for the car? Anybody?

rotten42

What can I say Gord? I'm special!...atleast that's what my parents told people when I was growing up.

Gord96BRG

Sorry about missing your question!

The slow warm-up isn't good... the engine clearances are designed to be optimum when it's at operating temperature. When cold or warming up, clearances (in bearings, side seals, tip seals, etc.) can vary because the metal engine components are of different shapes and different materials (steel, aluminum, more), so because of differing thermal expansion characteristics the expansion with temperature change varies. That's why you should never push an engine hard when it's not warmed up - full throttle or high rpm operations can cause increased wear when clearances can be too tight or too loose.

That's one issue, the other one actually IS fuel economy! When an engine is not at operating temperature, the ECU will run it slightly richer. If you delay the time to reach (or never reach) operating temp, you will use more fuel than if the car warms up quickly.

If it happens rarely, I'm not sure I'd bother worrying about it. Mine was happening regularly!

rotten42

Well I just picked my car up after having the work done and all I have to say is WOW!!!!!!....what a difference. This car fires up so quickly. I don't think it ever felt like this even when new.

as a side note Kramer did a good job...no problems at all.

khtm

I think they said that so you woldn't feel so bad about wearing the helmet

rotten42

that's what I was getting at.