Revolver

No, I'm talking about across their model range (i.e. "We're selling more than enough 3's, 6's, Tributes, etc and we've got the CX7 to come, why bother improving the 8?").



What, like they kept making the 7? And the NSX ended up trying to compete with 200 odd kw in a 350-400kw playing field. That's sticking to it?



Fair point.

timbo

The big reason that makes me think about getting out of the 8 is what is going to happen once the second hand market sees a lot of 3+y/o 8's out of warranty. No question it will become a major target for modding and, at least for me, that will mean it loses much of its previous cachet.

Perhaps I'll get a Citroen



...I can't believe I wrote that. Must be nap time

Revolver

Get the blinkers on folks. We've been lucky enough to stumble over motoring nirvana and nothin' else out there matters.

Revolver

Excellent.

Thanks for playing...

timbo

Sorry...misunderstood
Ahh...I believe they made the 7, in its various iterations, continuously from 1979 until 2001 (in Japan)...stopped selling them in Australia in 1995. That's a pretty fair trot.

You also raise an issue which I think the Japanese mfrs have had difficulty dealing with...namely models with power >206Kw under their 'gentlemen's agreement' . No question that has held things back, even (especially?) the NSX.

Revolver

Mate, if they develop and sell the 8 for anything like as long I'll buy you lunch anywhere you want in Sydney (I reckon I've got nearly 20 years to save up for that one).

I otherwise agree the Japanese have held themselves back over the 206kw 'agreement'.

However, Nissan seems to have moved on...

timbo

Well, if the RX-7 is any guide, we can expect only minor improvements year on year. Certainly, nothing major in power for some time.

My betting is energy efficiency will kill the 8, unless Mazda actually develops something really tasty in the hydrogen line

Revolver

So, whatcha gonna do with that 'stock' car of yours then Timbo? Or has it lost its cachet?

<sorry, couldn't resist>

astro

I don't know what to get in 2.5 years time when it's my time for a change over. If the RX8 in 2.5 years time is still what it is today in terms of hp output... I will consider other alternatives. My heart tells me to be patient and see what comes out for the 2nd generation RX8. I have always fancied rotary powered cars since I was a young boy. I want to be a rotary die hard! For now though... I have faith in the Mazda engineers to improve the power output and torque of the current Renesis.

For a performance car... I agree the RX8 gets humbled by some other higher powered motor vehicles. However... a statement comes to mind:

"Greatness starts from humble beginnings!"

I can only hope the RX8 will become a legend comparable to an RX7. Zoom Zoom.
Am I hoping too much?

NB: I prefer to keep the rotary powerplant NA. Linear power delivery is something I have always wanted.

timbo

Well that's exactly my point. If it becomes a favourite of the rice brigade, I'm definitely outta here...and that's more than a possibility post July 06

No...I don't know what else to get

ILIV48

Am I happy with my MX5... Hell yes, it is a great little car.

Do I miss the 8... Yes every time I see one on the road.

I did try very hard to get into another 8 to the point that I nearly lost the offer I had placed before me simply out of their frustration at my not jumping at the deal. In the end though Timbo has a valid point, it came down to $$$. I could get the same driving fun in somthing that for me is a much more affordable package.

To me the 8 and the MX5 appeal to a driver for very similiar reasons. Both cars handling and balance are near perfection in the way they feel, both have adequote power but nothing brilliant and both offer a great driving experience!

I find going through a corner fast more entertaining than going down a straight fast.
I'll mod my car to get it to run faster in time as I believe it is easier to start with a brilliant chasis and build upon an OK engine than start with a brilliant engine and then try to improve an OK chassis.

I just see the performance market as moving away from a pure handling/balance experience and heading more & more towards the need for power culture. The RX8 sales are down (talking to a dealership will tell you this) and even the sales for the new MX5 even after winning COTY are somewaht wanting, yet the hype about all these upcoming turbo hot hatches etc is huge. The market talks more about 1/4 mile times and kw/nm than corner speeds now. As with everything else it runs in cycles.

Do I want to trade Danielle's car in for one of them... **** yes why not! but my moderately powered, brilliant handling & balanced MX5 will still be my fun car for carving up the mountain roads and all the race tracks... Just cannot beat that thrill of going through the corners at lightspeed

Without a power increase I can sadly see Mazda having a hard time continuing with the 8. They blazed their own trail and created a new market, a segment though that is now changing and wanting more. Mazda will look at it and decide if changing with it fits their business models or wether the 8 has achieved their goal of helping revitalise the Mazda brand and that now future profit lays in other directions. I hope not, but lets face the fact that much less than 10 years ago mazda was struggling as a brand and it was cars such as the RX8 that got people excited about that brand once again.

timbo

Sort of correct. I think you will find those 1998 Australian delivered RX-7s in fact have 1995 or early '96 build dates such was the lack of demand due to their perceived overpricing in this market. Production and sales continued in Japan, however, until '02.

But I will obviously defer to DMRH on this, who is without doubt the authorty as to what came in when, was sold where and when, and to whom

mikeyr

Think you're about right old son, plenty of 200x (0 definitely, 1 yep, 2 can't remember) lobbing around NZ.

mikeyr

Oh to be so young.....


I've said it before and will say it again.....

First men of a "certain age" well eventually we will all go through MENO-PORSHE and those of us with the genetic dispostion will end up with BENZ-HEIMERS, but by then we won't remember our names and when the Cops pull us up doing 25km in a 90 zone, we can claim we were "driving safely" to the bowls club

timbo

Whatever

The point is Mazda developed and supported the RX-7 for over 20 years, which was the context of the discussion

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Whats the definition of trolling?

EZZY

umm... i think i have joined the party abit too late.. but here's my .02 anyway....
1. MPS3 will be a FWD while RX-8 is RWD, cant compare. different market/age group

2. having been in a RWD "sports" car, you wouldnt want to go back to FWD. different driveability.

3. owned/owning an RX8, i'd pick an MX5 over the MPS3.

4. come trade-in/new car time, i wont be considering another RX8. because i have been there done that. life is too short to drive the "same" car again and again.

5. non european heritage hot hatch = RICE, then hot hatch with european heritage = RISOTTO

6. wont compare the NSX with the entire honad range, but the Civic Type R did not effect the sale of the Integra Type R or Prelude VTi-R.... different market aiming at different age group.

7. Mazda always have the plan of bringing the RX7 back to life, and im sure deep inside the RX7 is still the flagship. therefore the RX8 can not have more power than the upcoming RX7.

8. there is no car in the mazda range for me atm... the CX7 is kind of interesting, could be a goer, but im 99% sure that we will be going back to the european brands.

9. i dont think the RX8 model have been "left behind". it is a very unique car in alot of ways. im sure i will still enjoy it for the next 6 to 12 months....

takahashi

Honda may not have a sports car once the S2K finishes....

Hey my dream has change from an M5 to a Porsche Caymen or even better a 997 S

I also would not mind a DB9 anyday

kunz

Eric: couldnt have said it better myself.

However, I agree with most of the sentiments here regarding Mazda and the fact that they seem to have forgotten about the majority of (existing) rx8 owners who infact, want to stick with the rx8 and therefore need something to 'look forward' to.

As a young, early 20's bloke, my mentality right now is that I would not keep/buy the same car twice.

I guess Mazda thinks that regardless of how much power they pump into into the rx8, the mid-aged market will still be there; therefore there really is no need to try and convince testosterone fueled young'ens by increasing HP. No need to hit back with comments like "i'm middle aged and i am as much of a {insert label here} as {insert some age group here, as clearly most of you are an exception :P

Revolver

Glad you joined in Eric - you always have something sensible to say on this kind of stuff.



For many car enthusiasts I agree. However, the market is blurring a little and FWD has come a long way. Although RWD seems to be making a comeback in several classes I don't think you can just write off FWD so easily.



Again, I agree where I'm concerned. I've done the hot hatch thing and don't wish to return to torque steer (although it CAN be fun at times). I think this debate has morphed a little. I'm not suggesting you'd trade your 8 for a 3 MPS. Rather, the release of the two MPS models tends to crowd the 8's current range topping position as the performance Mazda to buy. To me, it diminishes some of the 8's desirability (but hasten to add that it still offers many other things the MPS models don't).



I'd love a 5 over the 3 MPS too but I've got ankle biters to consider.



I agree it's good to move on but I'd be happy with an improved 8. Can't really see any other model that meets my needs and yet appeals to the heart so much as the 8. So for me the answer might be a S/C kit. Who knows, the Mustang might be fun.



Again, I think this is changing somewhat. Rallying has improved market perception of some Japanese brands. However, does it really matter whether your neighbour thinks your car is rice. Many friends who drive Beemers, Mercs, Audis, etc wouldn't even consider the 8 when it comes to trade-in time but I know they're missing out.



I've backpedalled on my NSX comparison. I was more using that as an example of a manufacturer using a car as a brand builder to win people over (there's a marketing term for this but I can't remember what it is - 'passion leader' or some such ) but then not materially improving it over its life.



This is probably right but there's not much sign of a new 7 any time soon. And for me the 8 is a much more practical device than any 7 previously made. I think the novel packaging represented a fantastic opportunity to build a genuine GT car.



I agree that I'm not about to buy either MPS. I think the CX7 is interesting but I'm doubtful about the cargo room. We've been spoilt with a Falcon wagon as family truckster the last 5 years and every time I look at replacements I cart something big around or go on a family holiday and am thankful for the room. Ugly and boring sure but it's reliable, cheap to service and I don't give $hit if it gets scratched in carparks, etc. If I bought something like the CX7 I'd just get uptight every time the mini-terrorists spilt something, etc.



Don't get me wrong. I'm still enjoying mine too. I just hope there's a significantly improved model come trade-in time.