Series of Problems - Probably engine related
04-16-2010, 08:10 AM
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Series of Problems - Probably engine related
Issues:
#1 - Clicking noise from the area of the engine/transmission. Loudest when I put my ear near the gap where the oil filter is reached, or from my driver side wheel well. The clicking you hear in the video is more rapid fire now, and it clicking the same rate regardless of warm or cold, regardless of RPM, regardless of wheel speed (0 through ~90mph tested), regardless of clutch in or out. Nothing I can do changes the clicking frequency or volume (other than shutting off the car, which makes it stop)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SosB_aVWYNU
I have no idea what in the hell that could be. I have to believe it is related to my other problems. Just started Wednesday, only about an hour of driving on my 8 since (heard it leaving for the airport for a flight)
#2 - Power Loss is more severe. Just from the past day or so, my 6th gear has gone from being nearly back to normal to massive power loss. 5th gear is also noticeably down, 4th only a bit. 1st through 3rd feel fine. The 6th gear power loss feel like the engine is getting choked or running out of air, with slight stumbling. Full throttle in 6th won't get me over 90mph, though I can easily hit it without trouble in 3rd with a WOT burn to redline. No check engine lights at all, no indication of a misfire in any gear. I am thinking fuel trims first, since there are gear specific maps, will reset them when I leave work today, or O2 sensor returning bad AFRs, dirty MAF (got cleaner at home I will address that anyway). I've been thinking my O2 sensor has been on the edge of failing for quite a while anyway, but never quite confirmed it. I would expect that failure there would affect all gears the same though.
#3 - Random Clanking noise from the engine area. Sounds like a wrench hitting sheet metal. Not a light tin rattle, only occurs on "state change" of my 8: Coming to a stop, starting from stop, occasionally seems to occur on clutch in/out, usually has 2-4 rapid clangs when it does occur, might be as low as 1, it's been more. Isn't consistent enough for me to get video or audio of it, but I'm trying. Sounds almost like loose exhaust bolts, except they are tight, and it is forward of the cat from sound direction.
#4 - Hard starting, especially when warm. Dealer diagnosed low starter crank speed (2005, updated starter).
Recent History:
- Cat replaced 2 months ago under warranty
- Coils, plugs, wires replaced in mid December prior to diagnosis of cat failure
- Brought in for hard start and low power 2 weeks ago, compression tested at 4.8 trhough 5.3, engine deemed not needed, got a 2nd opinion from another dealer, they couldn't get compression test results under 6.7, which is passing when normalized to 250rpm.
56,700 miles 2005 MT, bone stock other than clutch bracket and clear corners.
Maybe my clear corner fluid is low. Though if it is, it's because my tail light stole it (that's got water in it too now...sigh).
I leave for a ~1,200 mile trip (there and back) in about 24 hours, and I don't think I should take my 8 at this point, although it will leave me irritated and pissed off all weekend driving the van instead.
#1 - Clicking noise from the area of the engine/transmission. Loudest when I put my ear near the gap where the oil filter is reached, or from my driver side wheel well. The clicking you hear in the video is more rapid fire now, and it clicking the same rate regardless of warm or cold, regardless of RPM, regardless of wheel speed (0 through ~90mph tested), regardless of clutch in or out. Nothing I can do changes the clicking frequency or volume (other than shutting off the car, which makes it stop)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SosB_aVWYNU
I have no idea what in the hell that could be. I have to believe it is related to my other problems. Just started Wednesday, only about an hour of driving on my 8 since (heard it leaving for the airport for a flight)
#2 - Power Loss is more severe. Just from the past day or so, my 6th gear has gone from being nearly back to normal to massive power loss. 5th gear is also noticeably down, 4th only a bit. 1st through 3rd feel fine. The 6th gear power loss feel like the engine is getting choked or running out of air, with slight stumbling. Full throttle in 6th won't get me over 90mph, though I can easily hit it without trouble in 3rd with a WOT burn to redline. No check engine lights at all, no indication of a misfire in any gear. I am thinking fuel trims first, since there are gear specific maps, will reset them when I leave work today, or O2 sensor returning bad AFRs, dirty MAF (got cleaner at home I will address that anyway). I've been thinking my O2 sensor has been on the edge of failing for quite a while anyway, but never quite confirmed it. I would expect that failure there would affect all gears the same though.
#3 - Random Clanking noise from the engine area. Sounds like a wrench hitting sheet metal. Not a light tin rattle, only occurs on "state change" of my 8: Coming to a stop, starting from stop, occasionally seems to occur on clutch in/out, usually has 2-4 rapid clangs when it does occur, might be as low as 1, it's been more. Isn't consistent enough for me to get video or audio of it, but I'm trying. Sounds almost like loose exhaust bolts, except they are tight, and it is forward of the cat from sound direction.
#4 - Hard starting, especially when warm. Dealer diagnosed low starter crank speed (2005, updated starter).
Recent History:
- Cat replaced 2 months ago under warranty
- Coils, plugs, wires replaced in mid December prior to diagnosis of cat failure
- Brought in for hard start and low power 2 weeks ago, compression tested at 4.8 trhough 5.3, engine deemed not needed, got a 2nd opinion from another dealer, they couldn't get compression test results under 6.7, which is passing when normalized to 250rpm.
56,700 miles 2005 MT, bone stock other than clutch bracket and clear corners.
Maybe my clear corner fluid is low. Though if it is, it's because my tail light stole it (that's got water in it too now...sigh).
I leave for a ~1,200 mile trip (there and back) in about 24 hours, and I don't think I should take my 8 at this point, although it will leave me irritated and pissed off all weekend driving the van instead.
04-16-2010, 08:38 AM
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Regarding #1: Might the clicking be from the starter? Just something failing and when it is receiving power it clicks. Only thing I can think of in that area that has absolutely nothing about it changed based on RPM, speed, load, clutch, etc... Once started, it just sits there. Would back up the hard start problem, though not the power loss.
04-16-2010, 09:49 AM
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#1 is the starter I believe. Everything points to it.
#2 is SSV, oil or carbon. The randomness and instability of the symptoms is in itself one of the symptoms from what I understand.
#3 sounds like it is the "marbles in a can" that I have heard so much about without making the connection, against SSV it seems.
#4 is the starter
2 separate issues that combined were driving me nuts trying to diagnose.
So I'm looking for a starter ASAP, and will be pulling and cleaning the intake parts tonight.
IF anyone disagrees, please speak up
#2 is SSV, oil or carbon. The randomness and instability of the symptoms is in itself one of the symptoms from what I understand.
#3 sounds like it is the "marbles in a can" that I have heard so much about without making the connection, against SSV it seems.
#4 is the starter
2 separate issues that combined were driving me nuts trying to diagnose.
So I'm looking for a starter ASAP, and will be pulling and cleaning the intake parts tonight.
IF anyone disagrees, please speak up
04-16-2010, 10:50 AM
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RIWWP: Stop breaking stuff! 
It was tough to hear much in that video with my shitty speakers here at work.
It was tough to hear much in that video with my shitty speakers here at work.
04-16-2010, 11:27 AM
#5
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i didnt think the video was the starter. does it do this repeatedly? I mean you can go start it right now and it does it again?
take your android phone and point the camera at the aircon compressor pulley.
take your android phone and point the camera at the aircon compressor pulley.
04-16-2010, 11:40 AM
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Yes, it is constant. If the car is on, the clicking is occurring. It's faster paced now than it is in the video above, but it's always there, and I can not influence the speed, volume, or presence of the clicking by doing anything with RPM, vehicle speed, clutch in our out, etc...
The starter is the only thing that makes sense as the only thing I can think of that is constant state when the car is running, and unaffected by RPM, vehicle speed, etc... Once started the starter just sits there. Everything else is tied to RPM or wheel speed right?
The sound is also quieter from the passenger side of the engine bay, louder from the driver's side, louder from that gap on the driver's side back where the oil filter is, loudest from the driver's front wheel well.
The starter is the only thing that makes sense as the only thing I can think of that is constant state when the car is running, and unaffected by RPM, vehicle speed, etc... Once started the starter just sits there. Everything else is tied to RPM or wheel speed right?
The sound is also quieter from the passenger side of the engine bay, louder from the driver's side, louder from that gap on the driver's side back where the oil filter is, loudest from the driver's front wheel well.
04-16-2010, 11:49 AM
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No, I checked those already. The dealer says one of them has a tiny bit of rust on it, and I will be getting new ones anyway because of that, but I would really suspect that if it was that, it would be causing misfires, and the clicking noise would be somewhat in relation to RPM, as it sends the current dependent on the RPM.
04-17-2010, 05:59 PM
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Clicking isnt starter. Did a battery disconnect reset last night, clicking disappeared.
Starter still weak and dying, just clicking was something else
I definately am getting oil in the intake, pulled apart intake back through UIM with Vlaze, carbon and oil residue throughout. SSV and valves as well, but they moved freely with air pump vacuum and by hand on the upper. Cleaned everything we could, reinstalled, pulled the 8 out of the garage for seafoam, let it warm, pulled off the air box to disconnect the eshaft sensor, and the accordion was coated in fresh oil. Maybe an oz.
Oil level was at 3/4 full. MSP16 related?
Starter still weak and dying, just clicking was something else
I definately am getting oil in the intake, pulled apart intake back through UIM with Vlaze, carbon and oil residue throughout. SSV and valves as well, but they moved freely with air pump vacuum and by hand on the upper. Cleaned everything we could, reinstalled, pulled the 8 out of the garage for seafoam, let it warm, pulled off the air box to disconnect the eshaft sensor, and the accordion was coated in fresh oil. Maybe an oz.
Oil level was at 3/4 full. MSP16 related?
04-17-2010, 08:13 PM
#10
Thats a weird noise man.
the only thing that comes to mind is something is wrong with your oil pickup line but even then that doesn't make sense.
It mounts right near that noise, and it could potentially shoot oil back through the breather line into the accordion. I'm not to sure how it could but it has potential that's all I'm saying.
That noise doesn't sound like anything electrical. So the battery reset fixing it who knows.
That's all I got figure I'd throw some ideas out there to get this solved!
the only thing that comes to mind is something is wrong with your oil pickup line but even then that doesn't make sense.
It mounts right near that noise, and it could potentially shoot oil back through the breather line into the accordion. I'm not to sure how it could but it has potential that's all I'm saying.
That noise doesn't sound like anything electrical. So the battery reset fixing it who knows.
That's all I got figure I'd throw some ideas out there to get this solved!
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