Which one to buy (LOC)
10-24-2005, 02:58 PM
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Which one to buy (LOC)
Im getting ready to start doing some wireing and i just want to know if anyone has installed the AudioControl LC-6?
I was just wondering which one i would be better off with the AudioControl LC-6 Or The AudioControl 6xS,
or the PAC OEM-2., Or The SoundGate,(Active Or Passive)
Im leaning more towards the AudioControl LC-6 I just wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions.
I Have the bose system and the factory navagation
Im going to be running a kicker Sx 900.4 and an Sx-1250.1.
I was just wondering which one i would be better off with the AudioControl LC-6 Or The AudioControl 6xS,
or the PAC OEM-2., Or The SoundGate,(Active Or Passive)
Im leaning more towards the AudioControl LC-6 I just wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions.
I Have the bose system and the factory navagation
Im going to be running a kicker Sx 900.4 and an Sx-1250.1.
Last edited by TomPerrone; 10-25-2005 at 09:36 PM.
10-24-2005, 03:09 PM
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I installed one on Saturday in a Mazda 6 wagon actually. It offers far more value to the user in the terms of flexibility. Make sure that you add the bass remote to it to control the sub independent from the main volume control on the factory head unit. The control **** can be removed from it's mount and with some work, can be mounted into the factory knockout panel to the lower left of the steering wheel.
10-24-2005, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by forbidden
I installed one on Saturday in a Mazda 6 wagon actually. It offers far more value to the user in the terms of flexibility. Make sure that you add the bass remote to it to control the sub independent from the main volume control on the factory head unit. The control **** can be removed from it's mount and with some work, can be mounted into the factory knockout panel to the lower left of the steering wheel.
10-25-2005, 11:22 AM
#7
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I would strongly suggest tapping into the lines BEFORE so you don't have to live with the Bose equalization.
I would also use the front lines not the back lines. That way you fade the rear in and out without changing the sub level.
If you install the soundgate, make sure you do it right at the Radio and not at the rear of the vehicle. With the Soundgate you will get more alternator whine the further you are away from the source.
-Mr. Wigggles
I would also use the front lines not the back lines. That way you fade the rear in and out without changing the sub level.
If you install the soundgate, make sure you do it right at the Radio and not at the rear of the vehicle. With the Soundgate you will get more alternator whine the further you are away from the source.
-Mr. Wigggles
10-25-2005, 12:51 PM
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Soundgate told me otherwise. They said the signal is much stronger after the amp. They also said the signal from the HU varies with volume output and that you had to use a different LOC to compensate for this...I still cant get a straight answer about where to tap...several custom installers in my areas all disagree and so do people here. I've researched here out the *** and it seems no one agrees on it here either
10-25-2005, 04:33 PM
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Ive heard both sides too, tap before the amp and tap after the amp......
To me it makes more sense to tap before the bose amp,
but after reading the instructions on the audiocontrol LC-6
they tell you to install it after the amp (or maybe the LC-6 works eaither way on factory amped systems)
heres the link to the instructions so you can see their wireing diagram.....
http://myeporia.eporia.com/Resources..._38/LC6_OM.pdf
To me it makes more sense to tap before the bose amp,
but after reading the instructions on the audiocontrol LC-6
they tell you to install it after the amp (or maybe the LC-6 works eaither way on factory amped systems)
heres the link to the instructions so you can see their wireing diagram.....
http://myeporia.eporia.com/Resources..._38/LC6_OM.pdf
Last edited by TomPerrone; 10-25-2005 at 04:38 PM.
10-25-2005, 04:58 PM
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Hey Truemagellen,
i read threw your thread on video threw the factory navi screen (cool), that is deffently going to be put on my list of things to do, (you need the video switcher and a dvd player right???) i went to mazdaparts.com, the whole kit is like $800.00, expensive, but worth it....
I also have another question, does any one have any prevouse experience installing battery isolaters, when installing a second battery in the trunk. threw out the time that ive been installing ive only installed one 200amp relay for a second battery, ive never got a chance to install a battery isolater, i just wanted to know if anyone had any recomendations (battery isolator or a 200amp relay)
because im doing a yellow top in my engine compartment and another yellow top in my trunk.
i read threw your thread on video threw the factory navi screen (cool), that is deffently going to be put on my list of things to do, (you need the video switcher and a dvd player right???) i went to mazdaparts.com, the whole kit is like $800.00, expensive, but worth it....
I also have another question, does any one have any prevouse experience installing battery isolaters, when installing a second battery in the trunk. threw out the time that ive been installing ive only installed one 200amp relay for a second battery, ive never got a chance to install a battery isolater, i just wanted to know if anyone had any recomendations (battery isolator or a 200amp relay)
because im doing a yellow top in my engine compartment and another yellow top in my trunk.
Last edited by TomPerrone; 10-25-2005 at 09:11 PM.
10-25-2005, 05:16 PM
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It depends on the LOC. Active LOCS can go before the amp, but passive ones need to be after from the research Ive done. Soundgate told me its a stronger signal and its full range after the amp. I guess i depends on your application. For a sub, its probably not as picky as if you wanted to run full range componens. The problem is that the signal is differential until the amp ,so you need a LOC that can take this in and convert it. The signal coming out of the amp has been processed by the amp and has a stronger signal. but who knows..
10-25-2005, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by djseto
It depends on the LOC. Active LOCS can go before the amp, but passive ones need to be after from the research Ive done. Soundgate told me its a stronger signal and its full range after the amp. I guess i depends on your application. For a sub, its probably not as picky as if you wanted to run full range componens. The problem is that the signal is differential until the amp ,so you need a LOC that can take this in and convert it. The signal coming out of the amp has been processed by the amp and has a stronger signal. but who knows..
thanks..
(Never mind i found the web site)
check this link out from soundgate
http://www.soundgate.com/index.php?r...&usereferrer=1
it say to tap in between the headunit and factory amp (Before amp) but thats an active Loc, they say tap passive loc's after the amp like you said in the previous post.
(i still like the audiocontrol setup better, more options, more professional)
Last edited by TomPerrone; 10-25-2005 at 05:54 PM.
10-25-2005, 06:49 PM
#18
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Some other poster stated that Bose and base headunits have the same exact HU outputs (of course, the heads differ in features, such as audiocontrol). In the Bose case, these outputs are fed into the amp.
I am hooking up the David Navone NV-774 LOC to my HU outputs of my base stereo. It seems that other people have done that just fine. I haven't done it yet and I will report. The LOC is a passive one, but has full transformer isolation.
So basically, if the LOC after base HU is OK, then LOC after BOSE HU and before the Bose amp shoudl also be OK and will also give you the benefit of a flat freq response (unlike after the Bose amp).
I am hooking up the David Navone NV-774 LOC to my HU outputs of my base stereo. It seems that other people have done that just fine. I haven't done it yet and I will report. The LOC is a passive one, but has full transformer isolation.
So basically, if the LOC after base HU is OK, then LOC after BOSE HU and before the Bose amp shoudl also be OK and will also give you the benefit of a flat freq response (unlike after the Bose amp).
10-26-2005, 12:55 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by djseto
Soundgate told me otherwise. They said the signal is much stronger after the amp. They also said the signal from the HU varies with volume output and that you had to use a different LOC to compensate for this...I still cant get a straight answer about where to tap...several custom installers in my areas all disagree and so do people here. I've researched here out the *** and it seems no one agrees on it here either
The RX-8 has plenty of signal before the amp and the only thing about the signal that varies about the signal is its amplitude. I did testing at Volume 20 and Volume 30 and the signal is perfectly flat from 20Hz-20KHz. (I reported the results in another thread.)
Shown below is an oscilloscope capture of the Left Front V+ signal going INTO the Bose amp. At the time I had a max amplitude 1KHz sine wave (0dBFS) playing with the volume set to 33.
As you can see there is PLENTY of signal (1 volt per division). There is approximately 5 Volts Peak - to - Peak with a 4 Volt DC offset. The V- (not shown) is an inverted version of this waveform (Not ground) also with a 4 Volt DC offset (the 4 Volt DC remains constant it is only the AC that varies with volume). When you take the difference of the V+ and V- signals you are left with a 10 Volt P-P waveform with the DC cancelled out. This is the basis for differential signally. In fact there is so much signal that the Bose amplifier has to attenuate it before its Analog-to-Digital Converters digitize it!
The primary reason the Soundgate doesn't work well far away from the head unit is because it is not a classic instrumentation amplifier. Such amplifiers require three op-amps per channel to create ideal noise cancelling. The Soundgate only uses two per channel. (I haven't pinned out an exact schematic for their product just the fundamental design.)
Trust me on this one. Tap the signals at the headunit with a Soundgate, LC-6 or Cleansweep and you should be very happy. Then run your RCA's back to your trunk.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. Audio Control also makes the EQL which can be had for $150 bucks and it will give you differential inputs and equalization capabilities. It might be worth considering.
Last edited by MrWigggles; 10-26-2005 at 01:08 PM.
10-26-2005, 02:55 PM
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Wow. Thanks for the info. Its giving me flashbacks from college, but I understand. Who would have though my EE degree would pay off ..hehe. I should send link to this post to soundgate. oh..the reps reply was specific to the 8, but he admitted they never actually tested the output from an 8. So, that being said...can I use a passive LOC or do I need an active one?
Last edited by djseto; 10-26-2005 at 02:57 PM.
10-26-2005, 03:29 PM
#21
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djesto,
On the soundgate website they mention "melt down" if you connect a passive LOC to some factory headunits before the external amps.
This is partially true. The AC component of the HU's output waveform should always see a high impedance but the DC component (if present) might see a very low impedance with an LOC.
So measure the inputs of your LOC with an Ohm meter. If the resistance (i.e. DC impedance) is above 1000 ohms, then you are definitely safe. If it less than 10 ohms, then I wouldn't chance it.
Anything imbetween is a bit of a gray area and will depend on how much DC voltage there actually is between the V+ and V- signals. If those two signals have 5 volts or more DC between them then you will need the full 1000 ohms input impedance. If there is just a few millivolts of DC between the V+ and V- signals then even 10 ohms won't be too low.
For the RX-8 I remember there being about 100 millivolts between the V+ and V- (meaning the DC doesn't cancel out perfectly). I would say any LOC with a DC input impedance of 100 ohms or more would be perfectly acceptable. In terms of power out that would be .1^2/100 or .1 milliwatts. That's not going to "melt down" any Radio.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. On my new installation I will be switching to a passive LOC temporarilly. (I have the one sold by Crutchfield called Audio something). I took the LOC apart a long time ago and it has discreet resistors built in to limit any DC current as I mentioned above. I will let you know how it works.
On the soundgate website they mention "melt down" if you connect a passive LOC to some factory headunits before the external amps.
This is partially true. The AC component of the HU's output waveform should always see a high impedance but the DC component (if present) might see a very low impedance with an LOC.
So measure the inputs of your LOC with an Ohm meter. If the resistance (i.e. DC impedance) is above 1000 ohms, then you are definitely safe. If it less than 10 ohms, then I wouldn't chance it.
Anything imbetween is a bit of a gray area and will depend on how much DC voltage there actually is between the V+ and V- signals. If those two signals have 5 volts or more DC between them then you will need the full 1000 ohms input impedance. If there is just a few millivolts of DC between the V+ and V- signals then even 10 ohms won't be too low.
For the RX-8 I remember there being about 100 millivolts between the V+ and V- (meaning the DC doesn't cancel out perfectly). I would say any LOC with a DC input impedance of 100 ohms or more would be perfectly acceptable. In terms of power out that would be .1^2/100 or .1 milliwatts. That's not going to "melt down" any Radio.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. On my new installation I will be switching to a passive LOC temporarilly. (I have the one sold by Crutchfield called Audio something). I took the LOC apart a long time ago and it has discreet resistors built in to limit any DC current as I mentioned above. I will let you know how it works.
Last edited by MrWigggles; 10-26-2005 at 03:37 PM.
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