D MENAC 7

History:

I bought my RX-8 1/10 off the lot. I paid $31,200 which was MSRP at the time for the options and package. I wasn't enthused paying MSRP but I wanted the 8.

There were 6 to choose from, 4 with the GT package, Aero options and spoilers, three of those 6MT, 1 AT. There was one base model, 6MT with no packages and no options. Then there was the one I was most interested in. 6MT, GT with a spoiler.

The descrepencies start here.

This car had no side sticker posted on the window. The salesman said that it must have gotten lost when one of the detailers cleaned the car last.

There were 824 miles on the odometer. The salesman said that this car was driven by the sales manager as he was planning on buying it but his wife wouldn't let him and that is the reason for the mileage. I figure that if he was driving it and planning on buying it he probably took good care of it, at least that is what I reasoned.

I asked about the Bose stereo system. Did it have the 6 disc changer. The salesman said that since it said on the front of the head unit "LOAD" that it must have.

I asked about type of fuel. The salesman said any, regular, regular plus or premium. The manual says Premium as does the inside of the fuel door. (Yes, I have read the thread about 87 Octane and I use 90. I just didn't like a sales rep telling me something contrary to the manual.)

I asked if the mirrors were heateed. The salesman said he didn't think so. I am glad that afterwards I found out they are.

I asked about the spoiler since it was different than all the others. The salesman said that this particular car was one of the first imported and that Mazda changed the style after a few had already been imported and this was normal for a car manufacturer to do from time to time He first said something about it maybe being a Mazda Speed spoiler. (I was a novice back then and hadn't even heard of this forum, I know better now, thanks everyone!)

When I signed papers, the odometer statement was for about 50 miles less than it read. I was told that the warranty began at the mileage I bought it at. I hope this is true.

I got two black keys and one key phaub. He said he had to get the other phaub off of the sales manager. I asked about the valet key, he said it didn't come with a valet key. I called him on that later and he said they would have to order one. They had to order the key phaub too since the sales manager didn't have it. That was two weeks ago, it isn't in yet and they seem to have lost it if it is.

Here is what I have learned so far.

The sticker. It was in the glove box with the manual. It has a MSRP of $32,100. That's $100 less than I paid.

The Bose system is a single CD system, all of the face plates hav a load button.

The spoiler is not on the Options list. This is not a factory installed spoiler. I confirmed this because last week I took the trunk lid lining off to get to the third brake light to change it out for an LED lamp. There were 4 holes drilled for the spoiler, three were capped and one uncapped, the cap had fallen out of the hole. I looked up this uncapped hole and there wasn't a bolt and nut holding the spoiler on but all I could see was the black foam that sets under the spoiler on top of the trunk lid. I did not look under the other three caps, yet.

The window sticker still reads the engine having 247 HP even though it is only 239. I know I cannot take advantage of the buy back or the 5 year free maintenance since this is already past a long time ago.

Dilemna. This is the only Mazda dealer within 60 miles of here. I have to get my RX-8 serviced here, it's to inconvienient to do it elsewhere. If I go back looking for answers and asking retribution, I may **** off the dealership and receive lousy service in times to come. If I contact Mazda USA, the same may happen.

So, in short I am asking what would you do if you were me? Am I being picky about a $32,000 purchase? I will not be offended by any thoughts and opinions presented, I am asking if I can/should do anything or just chalk it up to being ignorant? BTW, ignorance is not a bad thing, we are all ignorant of one thing or another, some of us have a lot more than others, though. LOL

I am posting a section of the scan of the window sticker to document what I said above.

winter

Caveat Emptor.

Haze

Yeah, you drove it off the lot. Any oral representations made to you about the car are pretty much washed away by executing the contract and driving the car away. You can try to get some relief on the 6 CD player but it's disclosed on the window sticker, and the truth is that you should never buy a car without seeing a window sticker that matches the VIN of the car, and 824 miles . . . well, who knows. Sounds like a demonstrator that they dumped. They always say that the car was "driven by the manager as his own car". It's seldom true, but hey if it runs OK, well then what's 824 miles in the life of a car.

Ike

Can they even sell a car that has 824 miles on it as new? I thought there was a pretty low limit to how many miles a car can have in order to be sold as a new vehicle... The whole thing sounds fishy, I would try to find out where to aftermarket spoiler was installed and see if it had a previous owner rather than being a demo car that the sales manager had.

Ike

P.S. Why would you pay MSRP for a car that has 800+ miles on it and is going for around invoice nearly everywhere in the country? Not trying to be a jerk, but I'm blown away by this... Is this your first new (newer) car purchase, did you even try to deal?

93rdcurrent

You do have a couple of things I would bring up to the sales manager. The six disc changer is one, that is ridiculous and it is obvious to me that this was the slick sales trick we all hate. Secondly the rear spoiler. You were told that this was manufacturer installed. I would have the service manager look at it first and have him tell you how it wasn't and how this car was reposessed from someone that didn't make the first payment. Then you will have some grounds to complain. It doesn't sound like the spoiler was professionally installed to me and they do have to warranty it after all. I would insist that the sales manager look at giving you a refund for the changer and the aftermarket spoiler. If they won't give it to you the sales dept and the service dept are seperate. Usually this won't cause any problems but if it does I am sure that MNAO would be glad to hear about it. You will also get a survey asking how the sales transaction went. Be honest. Let them have it that is what they deserve for misrepresenting the car they were selling. You will also get a survey after every service transaction which is how Mazda decides how they will rate this serivce center. It is important to them and they would rather treat you well than get bad marks almost assuredly. I hope this helps.

ByeByeSaturn

I'm beginning to believe that the sales people stay ignorant about the cars they are selling on purpose - not just because they care more about the sale than the specs on the engine, but so they have plausible deniability with all of their sleazy and purposeful vagueries.

I hate to say it man, and I'm not trying to be patronizing,but you learned a valuable lesson. The good news is that you have an excellent car in your possession - it's not like you got sold on a 91 Tercel for $10,000. Also, given the lack of multiple dealerships in your area, what you paid wasn't outrageous - there is simply less supply where you are. If it makes you feel any better, you can do a search, you'll find a guy in SoCal, where the lots are full of 8's who paid $42,000 out the door for his fully loaded car - as one member but it, "[he] got straight pimped."

Remember, the salesmen don't live by the same code of ethics that you do - they aren't on your side - luckily with their lack of ethics comes a lack of intelligence that you can exploit. Three things should always be with you when you enter a dealership - 1) you are smarter than them, 2) you are better informed than them, and 3) you have more patience than them, or at least the ability to fake that you do.

Don't feel bad - your engine is broken in, so drive it like hell and have fun, within the bounds of the law of course .

D MENAC 7

I've wondered this myself but haven't dug into this fact yet. That's why I'm seeking advice.

I am going to ask the service manager about the spoiler, I can phrase it as I know it was added later such as "Hey, do you remember when they installed the spoiler on this? They did a good job and I was wondering where they got it at, I know a few guys who would like to look into getting one of these." The dealership is far enough removed from the service department. This dealership is a multiple store dealer where as they sell Toyotas, Lincolns, VWs, Audis and Hyundais. There are three different buildings in two different locations. They are planning on building another store/service center just for Mazda and Lincolns. I'm wondering if I helped finance this new building...LOL Yeah, this is a suspicion I have had about it being a demo, too.

I paid MSRP because they said it was the price they could charge that there is demand for this model and that a lot are selling above MSRP. I have bought two other new vehicles in this area, they all operate the same way since our city is in the middle of now where and the closest dealers are 60 miles away for a Mazda. That's a great incovienience for service and if you take a car to this dealer that you didn't purchase there, they do not appreciate it much.

Thanks for the advice, btw and no, I didn't think you to be a jerk in your response.

Winning_BlueRX8

nvm.

D MENAC 7

Another member on the forum is also a person who works in a Mazda service dealership and he told me that the RX-8 is a new car and that a lot of salesmen and service techs aren't aware of all the new models and features. I'm chalking this one up to the salesman's ignorance of this model but I am the one who got the disapointment.

I'm going to ask the service manager about the spoiler, see above post. The spoiler wasn't on the sticker as an option so I literally didn't pay for it. Can they still sell a car that was reposessed as new? I did run the VIN number through a check and found no records on it but I think that it takes a while for them to show up.

I am at that point at the present, I have the Mazda Service survey in hand, that is the reason I am asking advice here. This has been help, thanks.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Once a vehicle is titled, it is no longer new.
However, if the vehicle was only used by the dealer on dealer tags, it can accrue a lot of mileage and still be sold as new.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you got pretty badly tossed.

FirstSpin

I'd say it's probably too late to do anything of substance. Like someone else said, you didn't get royally screwed but you did take a bit of a beating. You've got a good car so it could be worse.

Regarding buying from one dealer and getting it serviced at another; it's no biggie!! About ten years ago, dealers discovered that service=money (non-warrantied service). That's why you'll get reminders from your dealer as long as you own the car, telling you when you need an oil change, etc. Granted, they might not be super-eager to do warranty work but if that'll line you up as a long-term service customer, the service group really doesn't care where you got your car.

Regarding 60 miles being a long ways off. I live in a town where I drive 40 miles to go to a given restaurant and never think a thing about it. I work with guys who commute 160 miles (round-trip of course) a day. So sixty miles, while it IS 60 miles, doesn't sound like that far to drive in order to increase your selection.

In closing, sounds you did okay but you could have done better. Take what you've learned on this deal and use that knowledge to "get even" next time you buy... good luck.

93rdcurrent

I am a mortgage loan officer by trade and I will say that I have good business ethics. It is important to me that I treat my clients with respect and give good, solid, and financially sound advice. Doing this for the last 10 years I have seen all kinds of guys come in. Unfortunately some of the people that I have worked with have treated their clients like a sleazy car sales person. They "gouge" the people they work with and make a lot of money quickly but soon they get a reputation and real estate agents and previous clients will not refer anyone to them. They will stop making money and many go back to car sales.

I hope that you don't feel bad about discussing the reputation of this salesman with the folks you know in town. I would drive 60 miles next time to keep from helping this person profit a second time. I work with people all the time who have been treated unethically and because of that I have a low tollerence for it.

Don't think I am putting down car sales as a profession but like all businesses there are some who have a poor reputation and it is easy for everyone to understand what I mean when I say "sleazy cars salesman". Kinda puts a picture in your head and maybe it's because we've all met one.

Lawerence

D MENAC, could you post a pic of the spoiler?

D MENAC 7

I posted this on an earlier thread when I was asking if anyone else has this spoiler, no one did.

Ike

Have you tried running the VIN# through any of the title history searches? It's worth a shot to see if maybe it did have a previous owner. You would be shocked to find out what some dealers will try to get away with. My brother was about to purchase a 2 year old M5 and decided to run a search on the VIN and it came up as a salvaged title, and it was at what was supposed to be a reputable dealer.

My guess is that your car was their demo and testdrive car but didn't want to admit it. It's pretty standard practice for every car that has a decent amount of miles on a new car lot for them to say it was some higher up at the dealers car.

DALE A BREDE

I would say, and i have read it already on this thread, that the dealer was using this car as their demonstrator. If the car had not been registered, and was only drive on a dealer trade plate, then it is still classified as a new car. If the car had been previously registered say in the dealers name as a demo, than they have misrepresented the car and would be in all sorts of trouble. I am a dealer, and it sounds to me that another dishonest and average salesperson has once agian given you guys reason to be suspicious of our trade. This sort of thing really annoys me, these people should not be in the service industry. You can still voice your dissapointment with the sales manager. Heprobably doesnt even know what has been going on, and often if you approach it int hte right way, non confrontive and point of fact they will do everything in their power to fix your problem. And if you explain to them that you would like to continue servicing your car with them and provided they do something about this you are happy to continue wiht dealing with them.

Regards
Dale

DALE A BREDE

Sorry about my last post. Very bad spelling.


Dale

Raevik

It was my understanding that, at least in VA if it's only state law, once a car has passed 1000 miles, it must be classified and sold as used.

800 mile does indeed sound like a demo vehicle. The bad news it that it was probably hot rodded by demo drivers in its break-in period.

I'm not familiar with buy-back. Is this a federal law, or a state law, or dealer policy??

shebam

You may have more options .... The dealer's or at least the salesman's conduct here sounds over the line in a number of respects. I wouldn't worry about pissing off the dealer -- let him worry about YOU and his reputation with Mazda and the community. Your options are --

-- The state attorney general's office -- every so often they investigate cases of flat-out lying, misrepresentation, etc. Sounds like there were several flat-out lies or at least made-up stories here.

-- Local TV / radio "on your side" programs love these sorts of stories and often the dealer will make good to show he's a good guy

-- Local Better Business Bureau -- they won't do anything but it's on the record when others inquire about the dealer.

If you have a heart to heart with the owner of the dealership, saying you have now done your research and realize the number of ways in which your were misled, and will be contacting
some or all of the above, he may agree to "make you whole." Question is, what is it you want? If, as several folks have said on the Forum, you overpaid, you should want him to undo the deal, take the car back, and start over. Find an out-of town price on a brand new car and see how close he will come to matching it on a car with less than 20 miles on the odo. If he won't deal, buy it out of town. The dealer HAS to service it and if he screws up he must answer to Mazda.

Mazda employees and dealer guys, please weigh in if this is bad advice .... In my years as a consumer I've seen some bad dealers (and one good), but pressure from Zone or HQ has always made them do the right thing eventually.

beachdog

D, sorry that you had such poor treatment. There have already been a number of helpful posts so I won't dwell on those areas. Here's a few reactions.

I believe that it is federal law that the sticker must be on the window at the time of the sale. The 8 that I test drove was the sales manager's car. The window sticker was still in the right window. When I started to roll the passenger window down for better visibility the salesman stopped me because he didn't want it to be torn off of the window. When I went to the dealer to pick my car up, it had already been completely detailed and they waited for me to inspect the car before removing the sticker.

You might want to call another dealer about their policy or the law pertaining to the window stickers.

The Mazda warranty starts at 0.00 miles. The 48 month period starts when you take delivery. This might be something that you can negotiate with the dealer, but you must get in writing. If the dealer finds you sympathetic, maybe they will cover you for some free services since they already used your car to help them sell other cars.

There are other issues about the mileage affidavit not matching the actual mileage at delivery, but if you already signed it, you have no proof of the discrepency.

The 8 should have two main keys, two key fobs and one valet key. The keys and fobs are expensive, don't let them off the hook. I might even tell them to flash the keys to make sure that the missing key isn't used to steal your car.


Make them install that thing correctly.

Unfortunately there are things about your deal that you won't be able to undo, so, take ten deep breaths and go take a nice drive. They can't take your enjoyment of your 8 away from you.

D MENAC 7

Read above post. I did do a check on the title and it came up blank.

That is what I have been thinking all along.

Funny thing is, he actually came up to me and said he was thinking about buying it and that it was car he drove when I was in the office signing the papers with the guy who does all the paper work. He knew what was transpiring, you could tell just from when I asked the questions of the salesman, he would go to the sales manager and come back with an answer. That's how they do the business here at all the dealers, the salesman is the middle man making the "deal". Thanks for the rest of your advice too, that is what I am considering.

I'm not familiar with the law for Illinois on mileage but I think it is infinity so long as it hasn't been titled. The buy back was from Mazda soon after the RX-8 was released and it was because they had posted HP as being 247 when it in actuality is only 239. Because of this discreapancy, Mazda offered to buy back any RX-8 from the owners or provide them with 5 year free maintenance. Do a search on here if you want to know more.

I am in contact with some connections there.

Not in this city that I am aware of.

Here is where I may have some clout, this dealership has just reclaimed control over Mazda sales. They are operatijng out of a Volkswagon/Audi dealership that they own along with their "family" of stores. They are planning on building a new store for Mazda and Lincoln at another location. They run a radio ad about this and about how they now control the Mazda/Lincoln business instead of Detroit who has supposedly been doing it for the past few years. If I could threaten this business venture by going to MAZDA of North America, then they might cave in like a ton of bricks. That is why I am seeking advice on this forum, it's ideas like this that can arm me for battle. When in a pressure situation, I can keep my cool because I have fact and truth on my side, they have fabrication and lies on theirs.

I understood this to be state law here and that is why I asked where it was to begin with.

I asked about that too and the salesman said the warranty begins at the mileage that is on it when I buy it.

I figured I was screwed on that since I did sign the paperwork verifying the mileage.

They are actually going to come up with that and had it not been for this forum, I may only have gotten the two main keys and two fobs because I know there were two fobs but had no proof of a valet key.

Yes, this is true but I will prevail and get something of retribution from them...maybe a set of winter tires for next winter...LOL I do love this car!

Squidward

spoiler doesn't look too bad from behind.. from the side it looks kinda fleshy..

can you get a wider angle shot of the rear? so far it looks alright to me.



btw, I think you got yourself a very cool car, so don't fuss.

don't let buyer's remorse ruin your ownership experience.. and don't make enemies of the dealership, they're your rotary engine's best friend, unless you feel like driving 60+ miles elsewhere for service.

D MENAC 7

Thes are a coupe of photos before I put the splash guards, front and back, and the door edge guards on. I do have the corner running clear lights coming soon.

Yeah, I think it's a cool car too and it's not the car that bugs me it's the too many discrepencies that is doing this.

BTW, my mileage has been 13.6, 14.19 and 13.8 MPG in the three of the four tank fulls that I have filled since owning the car. I missed one recording. The 14.19 was 90% highway with the cruise control set to about 73 the whole way. I'm with you on the crappy mileage but I'm loving it none the less.

Japan8

Dude... you got royally screwed. I can understand why you went to that dealer... what you should have done was just test drive the car there.. figured you like and then drive the 60 miles to buy it from someplace you can get a better deal. Imagine if you can save $3,000 on the price of the car by traveling 3 states or so away. Even if you fly, stay a night in a hotel and drive the car home, you still save substantially. So those 60 miles can be well worth you time... at least for me. You can always have you car serviced by the place in town... as someone else has said, you don't have to buy and service at the same dealership.