alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I have read here how somepeople say to never turn off the DSC in you car. While reading Slashdot.org today, of all places, I came across this article. It is from Leftlanenews.com .
Drivers increasingly take for granted the technologies that keep their car under control in dangerous situations, according to a new study. Fewer than 30 of those questioned in a recent survey knew what anti-lock brakes were, and less than 5 percent understood traction control. To test some skills of the average driver, the U.K.’s Times newspaper brought along a 15-year-old BMW 3-series devoid of every modern safety feature and asked some regular drivers to take it through the test track at the Graham Griffiths of Ultimate Car Control training school. While all the drivers were able to drive their modern Volvos, Hondas, and Subarus successfully in all conditions, they failed when forced to drive the classic car. “Even these self-confessed petrolheads were unable to control their cars without the aid of ABS.” And without traction control, many of the drivers “swung about wildly,” heading into 360-degree spins.

I personally believe that spirited drives without computer aids is the only way to keep your skill at their peak. Otherwise, you are not driving, you are just steering.

DOMINION

LMAO! I love that last part. But you know its so true. Its just to bad. I think people should hit the track more often.

yiksing

Modern Cars = Mouse = Point n Click

Ike

Maybe your modern car... Some of us own modern cars that don't have or need traction control

tiggerlee

ouch!

yiksing

Well I was merely pointing out most modern cars are point n click.

Spin9k

A bit of counterpoint to assist the discussion....

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Ask an F16 pilot if he's rather fly with his electronic aids turned off and why??

Ask a 747 pilot if he's prefer to drive with the electronic aids turned off and why?

Ask a F1 driver if he wants to drive his race car with his electronic aids turned off and why?

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Answers in all cases: No, because they keep me and my vehicle in control better than I could alone and I can go faster without killing myself and others.

Other answer: It doesn't make you any more of a man (or woman) or less of a driver (or pilot) because you utilize the designed in systems to achieve maximum performance more easily and safely.

The important caveat to be noted is that one utilize electronic systems *****with skill**** (not just bumping off the limits amd limiters like a kid on a bumper car) , IOW blending good driving skill and well designed driver aids in such a way to readily achieve performance not attainable by using either in absense of the other.


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Bottom Line: Electronic aids are not the enemy of control, they are the enabler to consistant higher performance of the driver and the vehicle. It's been proven many times, some things (many if not all) humans do poorly. Reaction time is of paramount importance as speed increases and mechanical devices need to ever more quickly deal with the absolutes of physics. Humans are not physiologically adapted at decreasing our responses in parallel with our improved machines, rather we are adept at using our grey matter to create other extensions of our physical abilities.

Spin9k

But I agree with much of what you say alnielsen. Most don't know there **** from their elbow when it comes to control of their car. Thank heaven someone's put in all these kid proof electronics in most cars today to save us all from dying at the hands of the idiots w/licenses and no driver education beyond (barely) making it straight ahead between the lines on either side of the road!

Send um out in a snowstorm at night with no anything except a car with an engine, and good lights, and tires and may the strong and smart survive! That'll teach them car control !

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

There was a time when people drove in rain, snow and ice without electronic aids. In rear wheel drive cars!
If you are accually using (activating) these electronic aids, on the street, you are going too fast for conditions. Some times a car does get a little out of control and you should be ready to handle it. With ABS and DSC, a car will slip a little less, and the average driver will take more chances. I leave DSC on for daily driving. It defaults to on and it's a pain to turn off all the time. I do turn it off for a spirited drive. DSC is too controlling when you know what to expect.

BlueEyes

Same old story. Most people are shitty drivers, but don't know it. Difference being, technology is keeping their non driving asses out of ditches and accidents. Good for saving lives, bad for letting them know they're shitty drivers.

BlueEyes

Uh, it's impossible to fly a modern fighter airplane without electronic aids. Impossible. Generally the performance of a street car is limited by it's electronic aids, not enhanced as is the case with an aircraft. Being able to control your car without aids does make you a better driver than someone who cannot, and thus, relies on the computer to keep them from staring at oncoming traffic.

I can't read your last paragraph because, while pretty in yellow, it doesn't show up so well.

YT1300

Since when is a 15-year-old BMW a 'classic car'?

I don't recall BMWs of that era being particularly tail-happy. Cramped and wee interiors, sure. Funny looking alloys outside, OK. But it handled reasonably adeptly.

Jaguar E-Type = classic car...

OK, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Isn't that the point of the article? This group of people couldn't control a resonably good handling car because they had become dependent on computer driving aids.

murix

That was the point. People forgot how to drive.

Comparing a safety system in a car to a computer aided assist in a F1 or Jet is pretty silly. They serve two different functions.

Spin9k

Let's focus on the F1 comparison then as it obviously is more relevant I will admit:

"One of the clearest areas of the much spoken of 'cross over' between Formula One and road cars is traction control. And although built to perform slightly different purposes - in ordinary cars ensuring stability under everyday use, in Formula One delivering the maximum amount of power to the road at all times - the fundamental principles remain very similar......"

The full article is available at the official F1 web site here: http://www.formula1.com/insight/tech...fo/11/462.html and is an interesting read.

From a review of the RX-8:

"Driven quickly the RX8 felt a little light in the rear; you tend to forget that it is a rear-wheel-drive sports car, but the electronic [DSC] Dynamic Stability Control which can be turned off, ensures that things stay in shape."

And again from the F1 web site:

"....The role of traction control in Formula One racing is an ongoing source of debate, with critics arguing that driver skill alone should regulate the amount of power transferred to a car’s rear wheels. ...."

Still sounds to me they are doing pretty similar things in two different but sports oriented vehicles with electronic assist.

DOMINION

There is a major difference between a professional race car driver IE:F1 car driver and a daily street driver. I had a taxi cab driver try to tell me; "I'm a professional driver due to the fact that I have a lot more to deal with on the streets than a F1 driver has to on the race track, all F1 drivers are professional drivers so whats so hard about that? I have to deal with people running red lights, traffic, wrecks, and other bad drivers."
I asked him are you doing all that and driving at 200mph?!!! That was the end of his monkey trip. Trying to tell me he IS a professional driver, Oh yea I can see it now. Hes at the bar using that one as a pick up line LOL!. In the end I think they should use traction control technology in every day cars and at the same time give you the option of applying the technicalogy during driving or not.