The EPA trying to screw us on race prepping street cars
02-10-2016, 02:32 PM
#1
The EPA trying to screw us on race prepping street cars
So the EPA is trying to slide a nasty proposal past us in a bill to set guidelines for trucks the sneaky b'stards. It intends to outlaw mods to street cars for track purposes, this has wide ranging implications in ALL forms of motorsport and the daily river you seek to modify and track drive as well. It must be kicked to the curb immediately if not quicker. We need to let them know who exactly runs this country and it's NOT them.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/epa-move...140312457.html
We need to get on top of this one peeps, I suggest an open petition for starters on maybe petition.org or something else similar? On the mean time we must pass this on it's already in play and becomes law in July without a good stiff objection. They basically slid it past everyone without making notification for objection in a public forum. Technically you're already breaking the law but this will make it even easier to nail you for it, given it's more direct perspective, will there be feds showing up and inspecting our cars at a track near us soon? Disturbingly it's very possible.
Think about all of the products and services this law will render illegal and put out of business, along with it's employees, it's nothing to be taken with a cavalier attitude. What's really so infuriating is that motorsports is such a small and insignificant part of the pollution issue and the engines used in most case are tuned to the best possible tune, but also the damage is disproportionate in terms of pollution versus the loss and damage to the automotive performance world and just being able to have fun in the first place with your own car. First it was the auto manufacturers trying to stifle our ability to enjoy the cars we build or bought for that purpose.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/epa-move...140312457.html
We need to get on top of this one peeps, I suggest an open petition for starters on maybe petition.org or something else similar? On the mean time we must pass this on it's already in play and becomes law in July without a good stiff objection. They basically slid it past everyone without making notification for objection in a public forum. Technically you're already breaking the law but this will make it even easier to nail you for it, given it's more direct perspective, will there be feds showing up and inspecting our cars at a track near us soon? Disturbingly it's very possible.
Think about all of the products and services this law will render illegal and put out of business, along with it's employees, it's nothing to be taken with a cavalier attitude. What's really so infuriating is that motorsports is such a small and insignificant part of the pollution issue and the engines used in most case are tuned to the best possible tune, but also the damage is disproportionate in terms of pollution versus the loss and damage to the automotive performance world and just being able to have fun in the first place with your own car. First it was the auto manufacturers trying to stifle our ability to enjoy the cars we build or bought for that purpose.
Last edited by FunRun8; 02-10-2016 at 03:03 PM.
02-10-2016, 07:49 PM
#2
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There is already a petition. I'm a member of several motorsports FB groups, and it flooded all of them. The petition is almost to 100,000 signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
HOWEVER, people are really up in arms over ... not much. They are just clarifying an existing rule. So no, they aren't banning anything.
No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Race Car
No, the EPA isn?t making it illegal to turn an old car into a race car | Ars Technica
The short story is simply that it is illegal to tamper with emissions gear for road cars.
If you make a road car into a race car, it is no longer a road car, and therefore the rule no longer applies, tamper to your hearts content, as long as it stays off the road.
Nothing has changed.
Horray for modern "journalism" using inflamatory statements to get clicks rather than actual reading comprehension and fact finding for the truth.
HOWEVER, people are really up in arms over ... not much. They are just clarifying an existing rule. So no, they aren't banning anything.
No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Race Car
No, the EPA isn?t making it illegal to turn an old car into a race car | Ars Technica
The short story is simply that it is illegal to tamper with emissions gear for road cars.
If you make a road car into a race car, it is no longer a road car, and therefore the rule no longer applies, tamper to your hearts content, as long as it stays off the road.
Nothing has changed.
In fact, the new language is about clarifying what may have been a loophole for engines that weren't from road cars. Allen continued: "[We have] simply clarified the distinction between motor vehicles and nonroad vehicles such as dirt bikes and snowmobiles… [which] may, under certain circumstances, be modified for use in competitive events in ways that would otherwise be prohibited by the Clean Air Act. This clarification does not affect EPA’s enforcement authority. It is still illegal to tamper with or defeat the emission control systems of motor vehicles. We are focused primarily on aftermarket manufacturers who sell devices that defeat emission control systems on vehicles used on public roads."
Horray for modern "journalism" using inflamatory statements to get clicks rather than actual reading comprehension and fact finding for the truth.
Last edited by RIWWP; 02-10-2016 at 07:51 PM.
02-10-2016, 08:25 PM
#3
Ermm that makes it very clear that anything you do to a manufactured car (I.E. converted street car to race car) is going to make it essentially "illegal" regardless of whether or not it's on a race track where as now it is vague. The "air" is not limited solely to directly over the track, they're essentially painting us into a corner that we can't escape, or go around, kind of like tax laws. I feel that SEMA sees it the same way or they'd not be in such a tissy.
You and anyone else who sees this as nothing to be so concerned about is not looking at it big picture. Besides this also makes it illegal to sell aftermarket parts that essentially go around the emissions and that includes everything from flashes, piggybacks & access ports, to header and cat deletes or air intakes and essentially if for example you sold those on the internet say Ebay for example, it then becomes a much worse federal crime even if the purpose of the product is for my building my race/track car.
In order to be able to purchase them in the future legally (if at all) there is going to have to be a policing of some sort permitting and the like and that is seriously going to curtail sales and R&D on new products raising prices out the roof given that the market will be so specialized and for racing that also means that since aftermarket designers and producers will essentially have no market outside of racing then therefore little to no reason to market their products through sponsorship's whether it be parts offerings or actual cash support as they'll not have any market to pander to.
It can even be considered a mail offense as well since you'd be shipping illegal contraband VIA the USPS if indeed they were used as a shipper. Yes there is a whole host of potential traps being laid with this law and they know it which is also why they kept it so closed mouth and tried to sneak it through inconspicuously without much chance for opposition or outcry from the public, they know it's a massive hornets nest they wanted to avoid disturbing before they smoked it out.
The next step they'll take is pressure all sanctioning bodies to be their enforcers of these rules/laws and if they don't there'll be hell to pay so, they will comply or hopefully fight in court with the rest, but essentially it is not something to be taken lightly it's the first shot across the bow not the final volley. So while it may not seem too threatening now that's the insidious nature of the government and how these things begin to spiral out of control until we have no say and it's too late to turn back.
Thanks for the petition link I'll sign it and pass it on and I highly suggest that everyone else who reads it does the same and maybe even go to other forums to get the word out as well.
You and anyone else who sees this as nothing to be so concerned about is not looking at it big picture. Besides this also makes it illegal to sell aftermarket parts that essentially go around the emissions and that includes everything from flashes, piggybacks & access ports, to header and cat deletes or air intakes and essentially if for example you sold those on the internet say Ebay for example, it then becomes a much worse federal crime even if the purpose of the product is for my building my race/track car.
In order to be able to purchase them in the future legally (if at all) there is going to have to be a policing of some sort permitting and the like and that is seriously going to curtail sales and R&D on new products raising prices out the roof given that the market will be so specialized and for racing that also means that since aftermarket designers and producers will essentially have no market outside of racing then therefore little to no reason to market their products through sponsorship's whether it be parts offerings or actual cash support as they'll not have any market to pander to.
It can even be considered a mail offense as well since you'd be shipping illegal contraband VIA the USPS if indeed they were used as a shipper. Yes there is a whole host of potential traps being laid with this law and they know it which is also why they kept it so closed mouth and tried to sneak it through inconspicuously without much chance for opposition or outcry from the public, they know it's a massive hornets nest they wanted to avoid disturbing before they smoked it out.
The next step they'll take is pressure all sanctioning bodies to be their enforcers of these rules/laws and if they don't there'll be hell to pay so, they will comply or hopefully fight in court with the rest, but essentially it is not something to be taken lightly it's the first shot across the bow not the final volley. So while it may not seem too threatening now that's the insidious nature of the government and how these things begin to spiral out of control until we have no say and it's too late to turn back.
Thanks for the petition link I'll sign it and pass it on and I highly suggest that everyone else who reads it does the same and maybe even go to other forums to get the word out as well.
Last edited by FunRun8; 02-10-2016 at 09:08 PM.
02-10-2016, 08:33 PM
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My point was more that it is already illegal to do all of that.
And it hasn't stopped any/many.
But you are right, I forget how the government is out to get everyone it possibly can.
And it hasn't stopped any/many.
But you are right, I forget how the government is out to get everyone it possibly can.
02-10-2016, 09:05 PM
#5
Damn I just lost an entire response! Essentially I was saying I understand your point and wasn't trying to conflict with you, we're on the same side, I'll come back and post the rest a little later this just pissed me off losing that well written post with a missed finger placement during typing.
Holy F! I just did it again!! This time clicked my mouse too quickly and hit the bookmarks bar FFS! I was just sending it too..
So one more time.......
I was saying that they don't respect the public and think of us as children they need to shepherd so patronize us as such and for the uneducated masses they're right sadly but most of us thinking people who aren't lemmings it's demeaning and infuriating. Here in Florida when they enacted seat belt laws initially there was lot of public opposition so they did it in baby steps in order to desensitize and educate the masses(read brainwash in some cases) they only passed it at first as sort of a casual regulation. Step 1 was to make it a requirement for the driver only and only gave warnings if you were pulled over for another infraction, could not pull you over for not wearing one exclusively. Step 2 was all front seat passengers but still couldn't ticket you or pull you over unless for another infraction. Step 3 they required all passengers and made the driver responsible for all passengers and could ticket you but only if they pulled you over for another infraction. Step 4 finally they could ticket you for anyone not wearing and no need to have another infraction. This all occurred over about a 2 year span. They did the same with open container.
While I'm in favor of both of those changes, given that I know how many lives these laws save due to track experience, the pattern is the same and they are only setting up for the final steps of outlawing entirely by making it illegal in steps and putting the policing in place to enforce the currently un-enforceable law which is why so many take it for granted now, that they won't enforce it, but they are positioning themselves for that policy enforcement unless we voice very strongly against it.
Petition signed and hopefully anyone reading this will go to your link and sign as well, this is far worse then it appears on the surface.
Holy F! I just did it again!! This time clicked my mouse too quickly and hit the bookmarks bar FFS! I was just sending it too..
So one more time.......
I was saying that they don't respect the public and think of us as children they need to shepherd so patronize us as such and for the uneducated masses they're right sadly but most of us thinking people who aren't lemmings it's demeaning and infuriating. Here in Florida when they enacted seat belt laws initially there was lot of public opposition so they did it in baby steps in order to desensitize and educate the masses(read brainwash in some cases) they only passed it at first as sort of a casual regulation. Step 1 was to make it a requirement for the driver only and only gave warnings if you were pulled over for another infraction, could not pull you over for not wearing one exclusively. Step 2 was all front seat passengers but still couldn't ticket you or pull you over unless for another infraction. Step 3 they required all passengers and made the driver responsible for all passengers and could ticket you but only if they pulled you over for another infraction. Step 4 finally they could ticket you for anyone not wearing and no need to have another infraction. This all occurred over about a 2 year span. They did the same with open container.
While I'm in favor of both of those changes, given that I know how many lives these laws save due to track experience, the pattern is the same and they are only setting up for the final steps of outlawing entirely by making it illegal in steps and putting the policing in place to enforce the currently un-enforceable law which is why so many take it for granted now, that they won't enforce it, but they are positioning themselves for that policy enforcement unless we voice very strongly against it.
Petition signed and hopefully anyone reading this will go to your link and sign as well, this is far worse then it appears on the surface.
Last edited by FunRun8; 02-10-2016 at 11:24 PM.
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