Heya guys,

Just fitted the GReddy Turbo Kit and car will be ready to collect in a couple of hours..

Also Fitted:
Turbosmart e-boost 2 boost controller
HKS SQV BOV
Trust Lightweight Pulley Kit
DEFI Boost Meter + Control Unit
Apex'i Turbo Timer
GReddy Oil Catch Tank
NGK Racing Competition Sparkies for RX-8 (9/10)

The existing exhaust I have is a HKS Legamax.

Just want to ask a few questions for when i pickup my car.

1) I read on the forum about resetting the KAM and NVRAM. Is this necessary to do? If so, i have already written down what I should do...

2) I have also read about a DSC warning light that shows up. There is a procedure to reset this, but i cant seem to find the thread again.. It involves turning the wheel left and right???

3) After the initial turbo run-in of 500km, I was recommended to drain the engine oil and refill with a new batch.. Is this necessary?

4) I have read that the stock boost targets around 6.5 psi (0.45 bar) and falls at higher RPMs due to a wastegate issue.. I already have a boost controller, the e-boost2 which prevents the boost from dropping at High RPMs from the wastegate. I want to know what is a good amount to set for high boost (After run-in of course). I have read in the FAQ that the kit can do up to 10psi (0.68bar). Is this what i should be aiming for? 0.7 boost? Can the stock NA engine take that?

The e-manage will not be tuned and will utilize the maps provided by Trust for the meanwhile till I get an Fcon V in a few months.

Thanks for any information and help

Kit

I Have found the info i needed for question 2

Until you tune the car, I would leave the boost where it is. 75% of the people with the emanage don't have good luck with it, so wait until you get your fcon to up the boost. You'll be suprised how hard it pulls without upping the boost.

1) It's not necessary to do this.
2) I know you found the answer but for future reference... with car on and idling, turn wheel all the way left and then all the way to the right. this will clear one of the lights. then turn off the car and turn back on, this clears the other light.
3) No it's not necessary. 500km is 300miles. You had to drain the oil to get the new turbo in, so I wouldn't do an oil change til your regular interval, I do mine every 3k-4k miles.
4) There's no way you can go up to 10psi without tuning the emanage! Like moostafa said, wait til you get the FconV before increasing boost.
The engine can handle 10psi but not sure how long it'll last if you do. More strain on the engine, the less it'll last. Could be 50k miles, could be 5kmiles.

Also, the tuning plays a big part on engine durablilty and driveablility. I do not know of anyone running at 10psi using the emanage (with custom map), now using the interceptor X, it's easily attainable.

If you have the 'R' flash on your ECU, watch out for a lean condition that could toast your engine.

There are several of us who have blown engines this way.

The R flash has added fuel across the whole band. As stated by Mazda tech and as seen by all who have the same super rich problem, particularly over 5k.

The R flash has added fuel across the whole band. As stated by Mazda tech and as seen by all who have the same super rich problem, particularly over 5k.


I doubt that. I think people would have been bitching about the reduction in power with the R. I haven't heard a peep to that effect. I do know that the R interacts with the turbo kit is a less-than-desirable way. I don't think anyone really understands why or how. Last I heard, GReddy was coming out with a different dongle to address the problem, which to me does not sound like simply removing fuel.

I doubt that. I think people would have been bitching about the reduction in power with the R. I haven't heard a peep to that effect. I do know that the R interacts with the turbo kit is a less-than-desirable way. I don't think anyone really understands why or how. Last I heard, GReddy was coming out with a different dongle to address the problem, which to me does not sound like simply removing fuel.


actually it did feel like a reduction in power when I first got the 8 back from the R flash.

I think moostafa said he felt the same with the flash as well.

I doubt that. I think people would have been bitching about the reduction in power with the R. I haven't heard a peep to that effect. I do know that the R interacts with the turbo kit is a less-than-desirable way. I don't think anyone really understands why or how. Last I heard, GReddy was coming out with a different dongle to address the problem, which to me does not sound like simply removing fuel.

It's something to do with the way the injectors are controlled.

actually it did feel like a reduction in power when I first got the 8 back from the R flash.

I think moostafa said he felt the same with the flash as well.
I felt the same way. My car felt really sluggish compared to before I took it in.

I meant the R flash on the stock 8. Everyone with a stocker, that I've heard about, has felt an increase in power with the R flash. Opposite effect for the turbo'd 8's - but this reduction in power could have been due to lean conditions, which would also explain why a couple of you guys are having your engine replace. I doubt that you would have any detonation at all if you were rich enough to feel a reduction. Too bad nobody has any AFR readings with the R flash that they can post. I think the R flash changed the way that the p1, p2 and secondary injectors are used. Changning this strategy changed how effetive the emanage was at controlling fuel under boost - at least the way GReddy had it set up out-of-the-box.

My 8 is in Southeast Asia. I seriously do not know what flash i have on my car.... But I can feel my car is sluggish around 1k-2k range... I havent had high pulls on it yet (running in)....

As soon as i reach 500-800kms, i will take the car in to dyno..

Oh, I am loaning an e-manage support tool from a friend... I'll post what maps i have... I assume they are the latest as this kit was freighted in from Japan...

I've found out my car is fantastically lean at low rpm (under 2k)... like 14.0-15.0 from the turbo timer. I understand this is not accurate but it gives me a figure....

When i reach 3k rpm's the a/f drops to 11 sometimes 10.... I have seen lotsa maps uploaded to this site. I am not sure which is suitable for me.. pls help...

Friend with support tool will tweak it for me tonight

WTF! Is it even possible to make the car move under 2kRPM? I wouldn't worry about your AFR there. You're probably not under boost, the stock ECU is in control, and having that AFR is not a problem when you aren't making any power.

WTF! Is it even possible to make the car move under 2kRPM? I wouldn't worry about your AFR there. You're probably not under boost, the stock ECU is in control, and having that AFR is not a problem when you aren't making any power.

But how do i go about fixing it? getting the e-manage tuned?

What is the password to unlock e-manage?

No password available.
You have to delete it and then reload a map that you have. Either call Greddy for the latest map to load or look around here for it.

I would personally wait til you get the Fcon V before tuning, unless your having major issues..... car shuts off, detonation, etc...

Whats the benefit of the Fcon V Vs. The Emanage adrian?

The FCon has greater resolution, so a higher tuning ability. It also can be used like the interceptor units to completely bypass the stock ecu from taking control of fuel and timing. The emanage will just alter the signal, but since the stock ecu "learns", altering the signal is not very benefitial.

^ Have to disagree there. The kit is designed to force open-loop. There's no learning under boost by definition. My LTFT under boost hasn't changed in the 4 months or so that I've had the kit installed. People who have problems with LTFT, in my opinion, have something affecting their AFR while not under boost - like a leaky BOV. That would cause the ECU to learn.

I have had the turbo installed last March and with the M flash ran great. Once the R flash was installed, the car has run very rich. I have an AEM A/F gauge which has been determined to be very accurate this past weekend when I brought my car to KDR rotary in PA to tune the Emanage. Even before I went, I knew the car was running super rich, particulary after 5k and over 80MPH. Once I had hit 80, the car began to studder and the A/F gauge would be flat lined, which meant the reading was below 11afr. Once on the dyno, and I was hooked up to the emanage software, Dave could not believe how rich the car was running over 5k and 80 mph. He was not able to reduce any fuel on the maps because he told me that area was controlled by stock ecu and could not be changed, reading was 0. He had to reduce air on that map by the most that was allowed, -27 to get a reading over 11 afr. By the way Dave was recommended to me by Benny of Greedy and said "Dave was the best person in the Northeast to tune the Emange". The car still runs like shit and I am convinced the only solution is a better piggy back ECU. I need to save some money and probally get the Interceptor. The R flash has screwed my car.

No doubt. The R flash is a one-way ticket to Shitville for the GReddy setup. I guess you were not under boost at the loads you described?

MadDog - That is correct - The car runs great during boost - Please explain why the turbo'd cars are having a problem with the R flash when the only issues I have are when not in boost and in areas not controlled by the Emanage ?

yea lol... car runs great when i am not in boost lol... After using a version of TimsTurboMap and tweaking with it, car runs A LOT better.... ;)

Here are the Dyno numbers... With the turbo installed and utilizing TimsTurboMap V9a, i made a huge improvement...


I made 288.1hp@7700rpm @ 0.55bar
Major improvement from the stock 193.4hp

Both dyno charts included

HOLY SHIT. I haven't even dyno'd my own map yet. Just been focusing on getting that AFR tuned in. Is that first one really an estimate of HP at the flywheel, though? It seems too low for that and the second one too high to be wheel HP. Either way, as long as its consistent. Glad it worked out for you, KJ238! :101384_l:

Do you have an AFR chart for those runs? I'd like to compare it to mine to see how similar the AFRs are from car to car. How much did you have to tweak it and where?

Love that eManage! No reason why it can't work if you just tune it.

I made this dyno run with your map... untweaked... The only bad thing i experience with your map is in it's lower range 1k-2k.... doesnt seem to want to run... especially when i step on it... engine dies....

My tweaked map is basically richer in front..... and leaner at ard 4k under light boost... But with my map, i dun make as much power as i do with yours.... So currently i am using yours with just a bit more fuel at 1k and 1,5k,,,,

My AF is pretty lean... ard 13 at 5k-7k range... Graph attached

My AF is pretty lean... ard 13 at 5k-7k range... Graph attached

Great dyno numbers, but you are running way too lean. You better dial it down a few notches. An AFR like that through the rev range and you are playing with fire (literally).

13afr? Wow, yeah that is really lean. I agree with Fanman. You go WOT a few times, and your seals will go pop!

Mine runs about 12 across the board with that same map. I think that boosted engines make max power around 12, so you might actually see an increase by richening it up a bit. Still, I'm glad to see that someone else has bothered to tune it. You should have no issues adding a little more fuel. Just more proof that there is no one-size-fits-all map - no matter what EMS you use. Still, looks like you are headed in the right direction.

-MD

13afr? Wow, yeah that is really lean. I agree with Fanman. You go WOT a few times, and your seals will go pop!

been WOT a few times.. I actually raced the car last night.. not too bad...

been WOT a few times.. I actually raced the car last night.. not too bad...

I'm not sure how much experience you have in tuning, but because you ran it a few times and it didn't go boom doesn't mean it won't in short order. Your engine, but if you are running 13 afr's your engine isn't going to last long.

I'm not sure how much experience you have in tuning, but because you ran it a few times and it didn't go boom doesn't mean it won't in short order. Your engine, but if you are running 13 afr's your engine isn't going to last long.

Well, not necessarily. Some of us seem to have engines that resist detonation. I had some really lean areas (AFR~16) before I tuned it. But, I've never ('knock' on wood, haha) detonated that I know of. Still, when the ambeint temps warm-up, you might have a different situation on your hands. Tune it for 12. You'll be safer and have more power too.

-MD

I am going for 12.... Just need to wait till i have the budget for a reasonably good Air fuel guage... Well, car is at stock boost for daily driving ;)

Got myself an AEM Wideband a/f guage... Have tuned out most of the fluctuations and lean spots... Car runs much smoother now.... accelerates nicely, although i feel as though i have lost quite a bit of power... Mostly 12's and some 11's throughout.

Anyways, the problem i have is with under 3k.... With tims maps, i couldnt get the car to move from stop without giving it a bit of gas and slowly depressing the cluth. It was really lean.. I was forced to add some oil into the start range and it seemed to help.... Although i still cant just fully pressdown on the gas when i'm under 3k rpm.. It will sorta stall... Not sure why... Can someone take a look at my map and give me some advice? This is actually very annoying....

Btw I am using support tool 1.25/1.48 and i can't seem to view the acceleration maps. it just doesnt want to come up.. Is this normal?

Also maybe mm or someone else can tell me about the airflow/adjustment?

Sorry... on a very quick learning curve... But i love it when i adjust something and the engine runs better....

thanks for all the help

I am looking at your map now. I can't open the acceleration map either. I would make a new map and start over. It might be corrupted.

First, I am really doubtful that you needed to add all that fuel in the vacuum range and below 1500 RPM. Its impossible to develop boost at 800RPM, but you've added fuel all the way up to 70kPa at 800RPM. The stock PCM should be able to handle things until you reach boost. Don't add fuel in the vacuum range. Besides, the GReddy temp fooler doesn't kick-in until boost, so your PCM will be learning and start adjusting the LTFT to remove all the fuel you are adding. This is bad.

It is okay to be a little lean while you are developing boost. Don't worry if you are in the 14AFR range but below 2500RPM or so. With all the fuel you've added down there, aren't you showing rich? That may be the reason you are bogging. Also, are you bogging under normal take off? Flooring the pedal under 3kRPM doesn't sound like normal operation to me. Can you clarify? It takes me a little more gas under normal, easy take-off. You have added an exhaust restriction (until the turbo spools-up). This means you have less power until you develop boost. It takes a little getting used to if you don't want to take-off agressively every time. I have to feather the clutch a little more and be more aware of things. But its just like getting used to a different clutch in a new car (this one with a lot more power! haha!)

Also, the only reason to mess with the airflow adjustment on this setup is to remove fuel. Dont F with it right now.

I don't know guys, I have just read a few comments here and feel I should respond.. I really would not run 12-1 on your AFR... I believe you are really pushing it and not in a good way.. You can do what-ever you want but everyone I dealt with runs about 11.25-11.5 max....

Unless your wide band sensor is incorrect... I run 11.25-11.5 and have been tuned at 9.5psi
boost.. I don't drive my car daily and I run 100 octane all the time... also I still have the
M-flash... I don't want to hear one of you guys blew your motors, so be careful and listen
to some of the experts.... I not an expert , but I've learned from them.. Thanks

11.5:1 is too rich. Mean best torque occurs at 12.5:1.
Furthermore, the MSP has a distinct advantage over the REW in the detonation department.
Detonation on the REW forced the apex seal into the exhaust port which destroys it. On the MSP, the seal has nowhere to go, so it takes a LOT more ping to break one.

FWIW - my car won't ping under boost even at 13.5:1 and higher.

Jeff, are you saying that the RX8 being turbo charged should be at the 12.5:1. Because if you are this is a first, because if I review some back threads I could swear I saw a post by you saying the same as me...

Please educate me if I'am wrong and many others, because they are still saying the same as me... I ask the experts who also told me this to chime in, this is important, because I hate to see people follow the wrong advice, I'am not saying
you are definately wrong Jeff I respect your expertise. But if I'am wrong the only thing that happens is , their car dosen't make the most power.. By thde way I have 284whp at 9.5psi boost with 100 octane M-flash and running 11.25-11.5AFR....

This would be good news for me also, because that means I should make more power if I Lean it out alittle more... But if your wrong someone could blow-up their
RX8...

I am looking at your map now. I can't open the acceleration map either. I would make a new map and start over. It might be corrupted.

Will try that

First, I am really doubtful that you needed to add all that fuel in the vacuum range and below 1500 RPM. Its impossible to develop boost at 800RPM, but you've added fuel all the way up to 70kPa at 800RPM. The stock PCM should be able to handle things until you reach boost. Don't add fuel in the vacuum range. Besides, the GReddy temp fooler doesn't kick-in until boost, so your PCM will be learning and start adjusting the LTFT to remove all the fuel you are adding. This is bad.

This what i thought, but i wanted to give it a try ;) It's my inexperience :(


It takes me a little more gas under normal, easy take-off. You have added an exhaust restriction (until the turbo spools-up). This means you have less power until you develop boost. It takes a little getting used to if you don't want to take-off agressively every time. I have to feather the clutch a little more and be more aware of things. But its just like getting used to a different clutch in a new car (this one with a lot more power! haha!)

Coolies... I figure this as well, but i wanted a bit of clarification ;)


Also, the only reason to mess with the airflow adjustment on this setup is to remove fuel. Dont F with it right now.

I wont..

Thanks for all the clarification.. I think i'm in a better position to go fool with car now lol.....

Jeff, are you saying that the RX8 being turbo charged should be at the 12.5:1. Because if you are this is a first, because if I review some back threads I could swear I saw a post by you saying the same as me...

Please educate me if I'am wrong and many others, because they are still saying the same as me... I ask the experts who also told me this to chime in, this is important, because I hate to see people follow the wrong advice, I'am not saying you are definately wrong Jeff I respect your expertise. But if I'am wrong the only thing that happens is , their car dosen't make the most power.. By thde way I have 284whp at 9.5psi boost with 100 octane M-flash and running 11.25-11.5AFR....

This would be good news for me also, because that means I should make more power if I Lean it out alittle more... But if your wrong someone could blow-up their
RX8...Well, first of all, you need to run richer if you run higher octane fuel because much of that fuel will not ignite or will ignite late. So, if you continue to use hig-octane fuel, you will need to stay .5 below the correct mix for the correct fuel.
High octane does NOT make more power. It simply covers for bad tuning or a motor that is particularly timing sensitive.
Second, I have ALLWAYS maintained that maximum safe power is at 12.5:1 or so. 11:1 or richer is simply a way to guarantee that you won't sit there throttling through detonation.
I am a firm believer in insurance for the stupid. Sorry if that sounds harsh (it isn't directed at anyone in particular), but I don't suffer fools gladly and most people lack mechanical empathy. The same people that will rev a motor to "clear it" are also the same sort that will stay on the throttle when it pings.
There is no reason any properly tuned Renesis running less than 9 PSI will have any benefit from anything over 93 RON/MON.
Also, pulling 5° of advance will do more to quell ping than a whole point of additional fuel with the added benefit of making more power.

Jeff, as I said before , I respect your expertise on rotaries. I hate that there is so much difference of opinons on this subject. All I can say is I haven't seen many greddy kits making what I'am making... That's not from me but rotary tuners whom tuned my car..

Not to get way off the Rx8 subject but I asked a tuner that's installing a supercharger on a C6, and he his keeping the AFR at 11.5:1 on the C6.... And told me that the 100octane is for insurance against DET. but also this way I did not have to retard my timing which kept my power up... I still wish some of these guys who told me would chime in, and you know who you are..

I'am sure you can explain this better than I can, If we're wrong we're wrong and if we're right than we may save someones engine... Jeff I'am not saying you would intentionally
say it's OK when it's not, so please don't take that way... I know we learn things about a new car after time , and this may be OK to tune it that lean, I would just like everyone on the same page about this engine...

Retarding the timing does note equal loosing power.
The point is to ensure that ignition occurs at the right time to create maximum torque.
Using a higher octane fuel may do this, but at the above mentioned cost.
In ANY turbo motor, best lean torque will occur close to 13:1 and best mean torque will occur at 12.5:1.
Some cars will see decent power all the way down to 9:1!. This is because they are not timed correctly or have combustion-challenging issues like hot spots or incorrect plug heat ranges, bad swirl, low compression, etc.
Once again - the MSP is not the REW. There is a lot of "conventional wisdom" being thrown at this motor by old rotor-heads that just doesn't apply anymore.

Does this map look better? (see attached file)


Was hoping that one of you can tell me how to hookup ignition timing on the e-manage? Do i need anymore harness apart from the one that came with the turbo kit....

I have to retard the timing before turbo kits in and advance it after right?

The wiring instructions for the ignition are on my site as well as in my turbo threads here.

I have to retard the timing before turbo kits in and advance it after right?NO! You leave the off-boost timing alone and you retard the timing about a degree per pound of boost at the torque peak and work out from there as a baseline.

The wiring instructions for the ignition are on my site as well as in my turbo threads here.

I can't really see the diagrams on your site... they pop up and go away... Can u post them?

Not sure whether i can find those diodes, but i'll give it a try... So i just go into the shop and ask for a 'silicon rectifier diode with an avalanche point of 0.3v' ???


Thanks

I think I should mention something here of which many seem to be unaware.
This is how tuning works:

Pick an RPM. The projected torque peak is best. Set the timing there by calculating ignition at 15° ATDC (which would be after minimum combustion chamber volume on a rotary).
Then tune A/F for maximum torque at that RPM. If it pings, pull timing, not add fuel. Get the A/F right. Once you have done that, you have found the correct A/F for the ENTIRE motor.
Tune everything for that A/F and control detonation with timing.
It is really that simple.

What the hell does a silicon rectifier diode look like? LOL I have no idea as a lotta people i asked...

Pls explain ATDC mm.....

Thanks again for da advice

What the hell does a silicon rectifier diode look like?http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65682&stc=1

After Top Dead Center

After Top Dead Center

Now I get it!

And thanks MM for the pics... Will try to find that diode..

Where's the gate signal on that SCR? :)

http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/03206.png

Not an SCR. Just a regular silicon rectifier diode. No control needed.

Finally some pictures....
Exterior

Engine Bay

Interior

Where are you from?

Where are you from?

A very obscure part of the world in a country caclled Brunei

A very obscure part of the world in a country caclled BruneiI am the Sultan of Brunei! :ylsuper:

Really cool song by Kevin Gilbert.

I am the Sultan of Brunei! :ylsuper:

Really cool song by Kevin Gilbert.

Havent heard that one lol....

Still trying to find that diode.... :)

After searching and searching, I think i've found a diode that might work.. Here is a pic...

on the back of the packages it gives the code 261-160... and on the diode + back i found the number 1N4003... A quick search on google gave me a few hits, but i am not electrically inclined.

Please tell me this will work... lol

http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~jkoch/ele404/pdf_files/1N4001-D.pdf

These are the specs...... 1N4003 is the one i bought

Those are in the same family as the 1N4007 that I use so it should work well since they have the same drop.

WOOOTTTTT.. really happy to hear that.... I will get right on it

so i add these in between the connection to the ecu wires?

U know the colour coding?
damm mechanics cant speak english well so i end up having to explain what to do

You hook them up to the outputs of the E-Manage going to the coils.
For the front rotor it is a green wire and for the rear it is yellow with a green stripe.
The thin silver or white stripe on the diode indicates the "output" wire on the diode. That should be wired towards the coil and the other wire to the E-Manage ingition output.

long list of questions for u in PM lol

yes my r flash my afr at 5500 plus at wot is 11.5 dips to 11.2 near red line i can damn there run turbo offf the stock ecu its so rich intercepter going to gain me so much power tunes when i get it in a month or 2