I was wondering where the HP difference between the AT and MT comes from. Is it just a computer restriction? Sorry if this had been posted about.

depends on the year, 2006 and up have the same engine as the MT different tranny and limited by the ecu. 2004-2005 completely different engine, tranny, ecu, driveshaft, UIM blah blah blah im sure you get the idea.:lol: The difference in power comes from the different engine(4port) in the AT vs 6 port in the MT and mated to an automatic tranny that will give you a greater drivetrain loss in power being delivered to the wheels. Id say its an average of 40rwhp difference...I think?

I have a 2004 AT :wallbash: Biggest regret! I really want that extra 40hp, because I want to do more performance mods, but there's always a part of that says its not worth it because I don't have that 40whp that MT's have. So if I can get that i'd defiantly start modding it more. Someone told me its a computer restriction. Not true at all?

edit: nevermind, just re-read your post. Wow, fuck that sucks for me haha

go FI there is AT rx8 on here faster than most manuals i think his name is phil or sumtin

the tranmsission on the auto cant take 9,000 rpm w/out damaging it so pretty much it's the ecu we can only go to 7,500 rpm instead of 9 and thats where the rotary engine really wakes up.

VS8 - Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about, but that guy has also put thousands of dollars into his 8. That thing is one of a kind.

Yea, I know we can't rev as high, which is a bust. But I didn't think that was there the hp came from. Wow that sucks:(

VS8 - Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about, but that guy has also put thousands of dollars into his 8. That thing is one of a kind.

Yea, I know we can't rev as high, which is a bust. But I didn't think that was there the hp came from. Wow that sucks:(

yup thats where it comes from the rotary is kinda like v-tec in civics u feel the power kick in around 4,000 rpm.

If you have a six port AT and fit a turbo you should get close to what an MT can do because these motors peak at around 7500 with a turbo .

I think if someone did a decent job of turboing an AT 6 port it would be a real sweet ride and give the AT some real credibility as a sports car ....

i read somewhere that some of the fastest cars w turbo are automatics.

If you have a 2004 and get a new engine from Mazda after one goes. Do you think it will be a 4 or 6 port?

i read somewhere that some of the fastest cars w turbo are automatics.

Yeah. I also heard all the street racing drag race guys are getting AT's now. And that there's more AT Evo X's then MT. Not sure about the Evo thing though.

they will give you a rebuild of the 4 port..lol

If you have a 2004 and get a new engine from Mazda after one goes. Do you think it will be a 4 or 6 port?

im pretty sure they will give you a 4 port cuz the 06 rx-8's have correct me if im wrong a 6 spd tranny and the 05 and 04 automatics have a 4 spd.

we're doomed!

Yeah thats true. We have a 4 speed. So doomed :(

just trade your car in when it is paid off or get a faster car..like i am

just trade your car in when it is paid off or get a faster car..like i am

lol same here im getting an 06 sti......hopefully:naughty:

LOL you want MT power at a budget price go with these cheap mods, K&N drop in filter $50, midpipe $150-400, COBB
Accessport w/ free MM tuning $695, ZEX nitrous (50shot)+ BHR Throttle body spacer(cleaner setup)+other nitrous goodies ~$700

so you are looking at around $1600 more or less based on preference or how good a bargain hunter you are. This should give you the power to topple most non-FI rx8's. Costs less than a Quality set of wheels and tires. Never say never with the AT

lol same here im getting an 06 sti......hopefully:naughty:

sounds good..i am thinking R32 or IS350 :)

Evo X or 2006+ BMW M5 for me. A few years from now. I need a midpipe, really bad. An accessport would be nice too.

turbo all the way ^_^

if the rx-8 came w turbo 300 hp i would keep it cuz it's the sexiest looking car out there my gf her friends and my friends both agree

ZachLegend (http://www.rx8club.com/member.php?u=50736), your best bet is to sell your eight today and buy something that you can be proud of. I have a hard time understanding why someone would buy the 4 port a/t and then cry later. The four port AT is what it is and that's all your going to get and I know exactly from where I speak. My s/c 4port is faster that a stock 6port a/t or m/t, but that's it. Put a turbo or s/c on the 6port and "whoops".Whom ever is saying that there is a restriction on RPM knows not what they say. My rev range is the same as any stock or FI 6 port m/t. Know that I do have a shift limit of 8500 RPM (8 will not shift correctly above 8500 RPM) The cost of switching a 4port car to a 6port car is near the price of a new car - better to live with what you have. I truly love my little 4port and while I can wish for a way to stuff more air and fuel into it, I am not disappointed when it does not happen.

how much was it to supercharge your AT ?

^^^ Phil is upwards of $10,000 on his current build.

damn..

you gotta pay to play.
the thing I admire most about Phil's car is his never ending persuit of perfection. He's been continually upgrading that Pettit Kit to suit his needs and he's spared no expense in doing so.

Amazing car.
Trust me, I've driven it. :)

i want to drive it now..lol

holy stickshift! $10,000 I wish I could do something like that! But I've been reading alot about AT turbo 8's and I think I'm gonna do that, but I wanna know I have a 4 port engine and most turbo AT have 6 is this still possible for me??

you can turbo a 4port.

^^^ Phil is upwards of $10,000 on his current build.
Hell if it was only that little .................Best I not talk about it as my wife may read this thread - If you gotta ask then you cant' afford it. The engine is almost done (until we can figure another way to stuff more air and more fuel into it)- now I get to do the rest of it.

I low balled you on the figure so as to not scare away everyone. ;)

wow that is too much for me and i would be to scared to do all that to my car i would blow it up lol mad props to you phil.

I low balled you on the figure so as to not scare away everyone. ;)

No one has to do what I am doing - you can get close with out breaking the bank. Most would be happier having a turbo and a turbo four port is a whole new experience. You can find that missing 40hp after installing one.

I just wish that a/t 4 port owners would quit crying and start doing - maybe they will find something I have not yet found. Got to be a genius out there somewhere.

Yikes guys, why would you buy this car as an auto? I don't get it.

Hay phil I agree with u I love my AT and I never complain about it. I'm just so ready to work on it but I'm still learning so much about it. But I guess it's just one day at a time. And I'm even more excited to hear that u can put turbo on a 4 port so it's time to make some purchases now :-)

Yikes guys, why would you buy this car as an auto? I don't get it.

1. some people just prefer Autos.
2. live in a high traffic area and don't want to spend their entire commute shifting in and out of 1st.
3. didn't do their homework and thought the A/T and M/T had same power outputs.

1. some people just prefer Autos.
2. live in a high traffic area and don't want to spend their entire commute shifting in and out of 1st.
3. didn't do their homework and thought the A/T and M/T had same power outputs.

^#2 is why i got an auto, NYC streets so unpredictable:sad:

. And I'm even more excited to hear that u can put turbo on a 4 port so it's time to make some purchases now :-)
here would be a good place to start. http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=164257

bs. i daily drive this car (mt) in nyc, no big deal!

why is it that everyone uses that as an excuse?

the tranmsission on the auto cant take 9,000 rpm w/out damaging it so pretty much it's the ecu we can only go to 7,500 rpm instead of 9 and thats where the rotary engine really wakes up.

yup thats where it comes from the rotary is kinda like v-tec in civics u feel the power kick in around 4,000 rpm.

i read somewhere that some of the fastest cars w turbo are automatics.

Do you just make this stuff up?:Wconfused

Edit: Phil Answered already.

Also the reason is not just RPM but because it only has 4 ports instead of 6 and can't take in as much air as the MTs.

The fastest 8's out there are 8's with 20Bs in them. :) But the MT turbos are much faster than the AT turbos. Not trying to flame AT owners. Just trying to set the record straight and stop the spread of mis-information.

bs. i daily drive this car (mt) in nyc, no big deal!

why is it that everyone uses that as an excuse?

well lets see, ive been in 2 accidents in a manual in the ny the frst time i hit a pot whole that riped the bumper to shreads the second time my friend was driving and hit one which made him lose control of the car.
but thats just my experience not an excuse.

Ok. First of all Phil, I'm not ashamed of my 8 at all. I love my car with everything I have and I certainly don't own the car to race it. I think my car is gorgeous and I've spent thousands visually modding it. It was just disappointing after finding out that it wasn't just an ECU restriction holding me back from that 40hp. THAT was where i didn't do my homework, and I can take responsibility for that.

However, I do want to performance upgrades to my car, and who knows maybe a turbo somewhere down the road. That would be amazing. I know next on my list is a midpipe and an intake. I know there's no way I could afford what you do to your car, and I give you props for that. Your 8 is one of a kind and I envy it, haha. I'm jealous you get to drive that.

And lastly, I have an AT because i'm 18, my parents had a say in me owning this car, even though I pay for most of it. It's my daily driver and I'm still sketchy at driving MT. I'm sure my next car will be MT, but I AM happy with my AT, an MT would be amazing because of the power. But I love my car and give it plenty of TLC. :)

AT owners need to stop their bellyaching. I along with a selected handful of rx8 owners, some who have stepped in this thread are actually doing something about it. Not so much because of a power hunger to become a corvette killer, but rather to enhance the pure joy of driving this magnificent car.....In fact my project is about to take off. I even bought a $500 beater (1990 civic si) :sweatdrop to be able to use while modding the 8. My AT already has an AEM intake, BHR coils, weld on Magnaflow exhaust and COBB Accessport(kinda)

Things to come,
-BHR midpipe, already purchased: install as soon as it arrives.
-Zex nitrous kit, already purchased: install 3-4 months--need to purchase BHR spacer+ remote bottle opener+guage+blowdown tube(already got bottle heater)
- more accessport tuning
-Lowering spring install (1-2 months)
-new undertray asap :dunno:
- Exhaust header??? maybe if i do,3-4 months
- lighter wheels+ tires 4-5 months...not really a priority

I wish I could go turbo or SC but it would be far from convenient and affordable, so I will use the laughing gas for my temporary adrenaline fix. :wink2: if anything ill just get the maximizer kit and lug around 2 purple bottles.

/\ you forgot to add :

-spare intake manifold LOL

/\ you forgot to add :

-spare intake manifold LOL

:lol2: maybe I can get a discount on a dozen

Do you just make this stuff up?:Wconfused

Edit: Phil Answered already.

Also the reason is not just RPM but because it only has 4 ports instead of 6 and can't take in as much air as the MTs.

The fastest 8's out there are 8's with 20Bs in them. :) But the MT turbos are much faster than the AT turbos. Not trying to flame AT owners. Just trying to set the record straight and stop the spread of mis-information.
At this time 6 port tuboed A/ts and 6 port tuboed M/ts still do have a speed difference. I can think of a few mods that would even out that difference. Now just because I said that some one will pop up and tell me how wrong I am and they have solved the difference.

Ok. First of all Phil, I'm not ashamed of my 8 at all. I love my car with everything I have and I certainly don't own the car to race it. I think my car is gorgeous and I've spent thousands visually modding it. It was just disappointing after finding out that it wasn't just an ECU restriction holding me back from that 40hp. THAT was where i didn't do my homework, and I can take responsibility for that.

However, I do want to performance upgrades to my car, and who knows maybe a turbo somewhere down the road. That would be amazing. I know next on my list is a midpipe and an intake. I know there's no way I could afford what you do to your car, and I give you props for that. Your 8 is one of a kind and I envy it, haha. I'm jealous you get to drive that.

And lastly, I have an AT because i'm 18, my parents had a say in me owning this car, even though I pay for most of it. It's my daily driver and I'm still sketchy at driving MT. I'm sure my next car will be MT, but I AM happy with my AT, an MT would be amazing because of the power. But I love my car and give it plenty of TLC. :)
Your choice of words lead me to believe that you were ashamed of it. Glad to see that you are pleased with it. You know the reason I purchased this car was it's looks, and it's cornering ability. If I had wanted speed I would have just purchased a Shelby.

AT owners need to stop their bellyaching. I along with a selected handful of rx8 owners, some who have stepped in this thread are actually doing something about it. Not so much because of a power hunger to become a corvette killer, but rather to enhance the pure joy of driving this magnificent car.....In fact my project is about to take off. I even bought a $500 beater (1990 civic si) :sweatdrop to be able to use while modding the 8. My AT already has an AEM intake, BHR coils, weld on Magnaflow exhaust and COBB Accessport(kinda)

Things to come,
-BHR midpipe, already purchased: install as soon as it arrives.
-Zex nitrous kit, already purchased: install 3-4 months--need to purchase BHR spacer+ remote bottle opener+guage+blowdown tube(already got bottle heater)
- more accessport tuning
-Lowering spring install (1-2 months)
-new undertray asap :dunno:
- Exhaust header??? maybe if i do,3-4 months
- lighter wheels+ tires 4-5 months...not really a priority

I wish I could go turbo or SC but it would be far from convenient and affordable, so I will use the laughing gas for my temporary adrenaline fix. :wink2: if anything ill just get the maximizer kit and lug around 2 purple bottles.
You have it, a quick relatively inexpensive way to gain speed is Nitrous. If you do choose it, the first rule is stay away from Easy_E1 and his posts on Nitrous. If you don't you'll be investing in the same manifold factory that he presently is :). There are so many different mods that are available that something out there should tickle your fancy and help with your desire to improve the performance of your 8

I just wish that a/t 4 port owners would quit crying and start doing - maybe they will find something I have not yet found. Got to be a genius out there somewhere.

Word...... :eyetwitch

AT owners need to stop their bellyaching. I along with a selected handful of rx8 owners, some who have stepped in this thread are actually doing something about it. Not so much because of a power hunger to become a corvette killer, but rather to enhance the pure joy of driving this magnificent car.....

Word +1

im not ashamed of my auto 8 either ... one coz i have a 6sp 2010 camaro for when i want POWER but i swear i hardly use all that power and the 8 is sexy as hell ... plus i have too many tickets on my license so the slower i go the better and the 8 is my daily ... i would have gotten a mt but i was in a horrible crash before i got my 8 and i was hell bent on gettin the 8 but could by no means operate a clutch for at least another 8 months soo the at it was and i still love it ...

yup thats where it comes from the rotary is kinda like v-tec in civics u feel the power kick in around 4,000 rpm.

Yup, our cars have VTEC

Yup, our cars have VTEC
i said KINDA they have the same feeling atleast thats what my friends that drive v-tec cars say

Although i'm an MT owner I would really love to see a 6port AT owner fit a decent turbo and get some good numbers with it . When is someone going to step up ???????

Do you just make this stuff up?:Wconfused

Edit: Phil Answered already.

Also the reason is not just RPM but because it only has 4 ports instead of 6 and can't take in as much air as the MTs.

The fastest 8's out there are 8's with 20Bs in them. :) But the MT turbos are much faster than the AT turbos. Not trying to flame AT owners. Just trying to set the record straight and stop the spread of mis-information.

i wasnt talking about rx-8 automatics i was talking about automatics in general the fastes cars out there arent manual tranmissions look it up.

the tranmsission on the auto cant take 9,000 rpm w/out damaging it so pretty much it's the ecu we can only go to 7,500 rpm instead of 9 and thats where the rotary engine really wakes up.

Yes it can! Get an Accessport. My car (4 Port AT) does 9000 rpm every day.


You have it, a quick relatively inexpensive way to gain speed is Nitrous. If you do choose it, the first rule is stay away from Easy_E1 and his posts on Nitrous. If you don't you'll be investing in the same manifold factory that he presently is :). There are so many different mods that are available that something out there should tickle your fancy and help with your desire to improve the performance of your 8

I heard that Phil! Someone has to be the test pilot here. :fingersx:
Early on usage and not knowing the fine line of operation has made me a wiser man. I haven't blown a manifold in 7 months. And the two manifolds I blew up, I know what happened and how NOT to repeat that process again.

You can make a 4 Port as fast and faster (like mine) than the 6 Port MT.
And there is nothing weak about the AT transmission.

i said KINDA they have the same feeling atleast thats what my friends that drive v-tec cars say

And im saying we do have it... it's engraved on the camshafts, right above the forged pistons

Yes it can! Get an Accessport. My car (4 Port AT) does 9000 rpm every day.



I heard that Phil! Someone has to be the test pilot here. :fingersx:
Early on usage and not knowing the fine line of operation has made me a wiser man. I haven't blown a manifold in 7 months. And the two manifolds I blew up, I know what happened and how NOT to repeat that process again.

You can make a 4 Port as fast and faster (like mine) than the 6 Port MT.
And there is nothing weak about the AT transmission.

does it shift right? and how many miles have u gone in that transmission i know u can do 8,000rpm w no prob but does shifting @ 9rpm damage it in the long run?

And im saying we do have it... it's engraved on the camshafts, right above the forged pistons

:spank: yup u gotta love v8 piston engine w vtec did u know the 8 in rx-8 is cuz it has a v8 engine ;) lol

:spank: yup u gotta love v8 pison engine w vtec did u know the 8 in rx-8 is cuz it has a v8 engine ;) lol

I wish my brain could comprehend your sentence(s)

Your choice of words lead me to believe that you were ashamed of it. Glad to see that you are pleased with it. You know the reason I purchased this car was it's looks, and it's cornering ability. If I had wanted speed I would have just purchased a Shelby.


That's the same exact reason I bought my 8.

IDK if we are talking about just enjoying the AT 8's or gaining more power from a inexpensive habbit for certain parts. I think there are ways of getting that massive power but at what cost and especially out of the RENESIS. When you have companies like Greddy, Pettit Racing, Esmeril etc, There should be no worries for power it will come in time but for now if anyone is really craving that extra power just do a swap lol but stay Rotary all the way and you can still keep the auto tranny. What I'm basically saying is that for those of you who actually put on their thinking caps will find that this sh*t takes time and money out the ASS!

LMFAO

Just a thought.


Ju

Yes it can! Get an Accessport. My car (4 Port AT) does 9000 rpm every day.




You can make a 4 Port as fast and faster (like mine) than the 6 Port MT.
And there is nothing weak about the AT transmission.


:rolleyes: LOL, I hate getting left behind by a MT 8. It is really funny to watch when it happens considering the fact that we have the same car visually.

I wish my brain could comprehend your sentence(s)


What did he say............? :dunno::dunno::dunno:


Lol

If you have a six port AT and fit a turbo you should get close to what an MT can do because these motors peak at around 7500 with a turbo .

I think if someone did a decent job of turboing an AT 6 port it would be a real sweet ride and give the AT some real credibility as a sports car ....

Im trying to be the one Brettus. I should have my car back this week. I had an engine rebuild from Tito at Alamo Rotary.. Im about to get Cobbs and I will get the Greddy Kit. Im going to get Pettit to modify my turbo for less exhaust restriction.. So... we'll see what the AT 6port can do.

i wasnt talking about rx-8 automatics i was talking about automatics in general the fastes cars out there arent manual tranmissions look it up.

Thanks for clarifying. And that has what to do with the discussion?:dunno:

here i come ....... too....

Hay everyone who gonna do a turbo install on there AT PM me please just wanna get some ideas as to what direction u guys are going for yours!

Did alot of searching and I'm feeling pretty confident on this. (Props to 09 factor)

does it shift right? and how many miles have u gone in that transmission i know u can do 8,000rpm w no prob but does shifting @ 9rpm damage it in the long run?

My car has 81,000 miles on it. The AP has been on for 40,000+ miles (9000 redline). And the original transmission. I've changed the fluid twice now and both times it is clear and red. NOT burned at all. It's due to be changed again and I'm going to try Enos AT Fluid this time. It's still clear and red and unburned. I've been using what the dealer recommends so far. And I do the power flush when it's gets changed.

What Phil was referring to is that the transmission will "slip" (rpms shoot up) when engaging 2nd to 3rd gears. Sometimes. It does this regardless of the rpm preset redline. 7500 or 9000.
I've owned two AT 8's (4 speed)and they both did it. If your in second gear for an extended period of time (cruising at say 6000 rpm) and floor it and shift into 3rd. It sometimes does not immediately engage. And the rpm's increase with no load on the trans before it does. It does not do this all the time.

Now Mazda looked at both my cars and had no answer or resolution to this issue. They attribute it to high fluid pressure on the shift solenoid. So I let off the gas a little and it works fine.
That is the only issue I have with the AT transmission and it really isn't that big of a deal.

Im trying to be the one Brettus. I should have my car back this week. I had an engine rebuild from Tito at Alamo Rotary.. Im about to get Cobbs and I will get the Greddy Kit. Im going to get Pettit to modify my turbo for less exhaust restriction.. So... we'll see what the AT 6port can do.

hopefully you are getting a bigger compressor put in there while they are at it ?
The stock Greddy will not light your fire - sorry to say .

Thanks for clarifying. And that has what to do with the discussion?:dunno:

nothing.but since we were talking about automatics i put it out there lol

What Phil was referring to is that the transmission will "slip" (rpms shoot up) when engaging 2nd to 3rd gears. Sometimes. It does this regardless of the rpm preset redline. 7500 or 9000.
I've owned two AT 8's (4 speed)and they both did it. If your in second gear for an extended period of time (cruising at say 6000 rpm) and floor it and shift into 3rd. It sometimes does not immediately engage. And the rpm's increase with no load on the trans before it does. It does not do this all the time.

Now Mazda looked at both my cars and had no answer or resolution to this issue. They attribute it to high fluid pressure on the shift solenoid. So I let off the gas a little and it works fine.
That is the only issue I have with the AT transmission and it really isn't that big of a deal.[/quote]


You are correct my friend. I thought I was the only one having this so called "problem". Now that I think about it, this could be due to not having clutch maybe. Just as long the transmission is not about to break I'm cool.:)

hopefully you are getting a bigger compressor put in there while they are at it ?
The stock Greddy will not light your fire - sorry to say .


i was actually thinking about that. Is MazdaManiacs 3071R still available??

i was actually thinking about that. Is MazdaManiacs 3071R still available??

Don't think so . Ask Pettit if they can do an upgrade - that is your cheapest option . If they can't do it send the turbo to BNR for the 60-1 compressor upgrade .

Don't think so . Ask Pettit if they can do an upgrade - that is your cheapest option . If they can't do it send the turbo to BNR for the 60-1 compressor upgrade .

ok thanks for the info.. i will try to get that done within 2-3 weeks

i was actually thinking about that. Is MazdaManiacs 3071R still available??

last i heard he stopped providing this kind of upgrade. otherwise i would be all over it. BNR is offering greddy turbo upgrade.

Although i'm an MT owner I would really love to see a 6port AT owner fit a decent turbo and get some good numbers with it . When is someone going to step up ???????
Yup - there seems to be a problem getting someone to do it. There are turbos out there that should "light your fire" if someone would try one. DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE TRANNY, it is stronger than you are as long as you take good care of it. I only know of one guy that ruined his a/t and he set out just to do that very thing (it takes all kinds to make up the world).
:rolleyes: LOL, I hate getting left behind by a MT 8. It is really funny to watch when it happens considering the fact that we have the same car visually.
Not sure what year you have but if your a 6 port your lack of speed has to be due to your pocket book. Even an AP tuned properly with a few bolt-ons will get you even (there is not that much difference in HP in the 6ports). Add Nos and you will make them disappear in your rear view (on the track - street racing is illegal and dangerous :uhh:).

Yup - there seems to be a problem getting someone to do it. There are turbos out there that should "light your fire" if someone would try one.
.
Thing is a 300whp 6port AT should not be that hard to achieve and it would be an awesome car . I don't think i've ever seen an AT dyno over 200whp which is pathetic given the potential for the car .

Thing is a 300whp 6port AT should not be that hard to achieve and it would be an awesome car . I don't think i've ever seen an AT dyno over 200whp which is pathetic given the potential for the car .

I agree......300hp should not be tough for a 6port AT. A 4 port can achieve substantial improvement from stock by any method of FI.

I agree......300hp should not be tough for a 6port AT. A 4 port can achieve substantial improvement from stock by any method of FI.

I agree with this statement about the 6ports, that's why I believe more attention should be focused on the 4ports. As said by Brettus most ATs don't find their way over 200whp, but when you think about it, most are using the Greddy turbo which is pretty small. I believe with the MazdaManiac upgrade kit they could make well over that "barrier" that's been holding the 4ports back. I don't want to be too optimistic about what kind of power they can make with that setup but I'll just say between 210-225whp :fingersx:
I also believe the main thing holding us back from achieving greater power with our cars, 4 and 6port, is the intake manifold. The only way to achieve this greater power is to have a respected shop create a manifold out of a more durable material. A lot of people love to compare the older rotaries to our Rx8s, but the only way they got to the power levels they're making is years and years of trial and error. I believe it won't take as long for the 8 community to reach these levels since the information is there in front of us we just have to go through some trial and errors to make it happen.
I don't no if my assumptions are correct or will be accepted but that's just my thought on the matter.
(Sorry about the sort of long write up)

I agree with this statement about the 6ports, that's why I believe more attention should be focused on the 4ports. As said by Brettus most ATs don't find their way over 200whp, but when you think about it, most are using the Greddy turbo which is pretty small. I believe with the MazdaManiac upgrade kit they could make well over that "barrier" that's been holding the 4ports back. I don't want to be too optimistic about what kind of power they can make with that setup but I'll just say between 210-225whp :fingersx:
I also believe the main thing holding us back from achieving greater power with our cars, 4 and 6port, is the intake manifold. The only way to achieve this greater power is to have a respected shop create a manifold out of a more durable material. A lot of people love to compare the older rotaries to our Rx8s, but the only way they got to the power levels they're making is years and years of trial and error. I believe it won't take as long for the 8 community to reach these levels since the information is there in front of us we just have to go through some trial and errors to make it happen.
I don't no if my assumptions are correct or will be accepted but that's just my thought on the matter.
(Sorry about the sort of long write up)
I don't plan on opening mouth and inserting foot here but I am to believe MM and Ray (and I do), one problem with the 4 port is getting it to accept more air - hell I can get more gas in it than it can use but it also takes air. Ray and I are presently attempting to force more air (boost) into the 4 port and we seem to be doing that but MM will have to come along and make it drivable. If I can remember to post (or have any thing to post about), we may have a little more information after this weekend.
I am not sure about the manifold but will keep an open mind. I am attempting to do everything I can to get a 4 port to it's maximum output but need to rely on the experts.
O9Factor is presently doing some things to his turbo ride (bigger turbo) and only giving us limited information (I don't blame him). He was an innovator with his first install so I expect to see wonders come from this one.

I plan on getting the Pettit for my 6 port AT but that won't be for 2 years, gotta go and return from Iraq to bankroll it!

also with a restrictive 4 port design you are effectively increasing air intake pressure which in turn heats up the air a lot more than the 6 port. A bigger turbo will help push more air but MAT will always be higher on the 4 port than the 6 port in my opinion; so much better tuning and a concern with intake air temps should be priority to prevent detonation. A better intake design should be priority and I agree with BlackOUT. Turbo RX-7 always have a totally different TB and intake design than NA versions.

my .2 cents from what I have learned with my turbo FC. I actually need to get a new intake elbow for it due to the stock restriction car is running a turbonetics 60-1 so imagine the restriction Im getting using the stock intake elbow.

BTW 2 post in this forum... I just got a slow a$$ 4 port AT RX-8 2 days ago... but I love it.

I don't plan on opening mouth and inserting foot here but I am to believe MM and Ray (and I do), one problem with the 4 port is getting it to accept more air - hell I can get more gas in it than it can use but it also takes air. Ray and I are presently attempting to force more air (boost) into the 4 port and we seem to be doing that but MM will have to come along and make it drivable. If I can remember to post (or have any thing to post about), we may have a little more information after this weekend.
I am not sure about the manifold but will keep an open mind. I am attempting to do everything I can to get a 4 port to it's maximum output but need to rely on the experts.
O9Factor is presently doing some things to his turbo ride (bigger turbo) and only giving us limited information (I don't blame him). He was an innovator with his first install so I expect to see wonders come from this one.

I understand that it may be difficult to force more air into the 4 ports but isn't that why they started porting? I thought the whole idea of porting was to increase the airflow which in turn creates more power over stock. I mean I could be wrong but im still researching porting. I have a friend who's knowledgable about rotaries and he claims the 4 ports are better for porting because the power gains are higher than the 6 ports. I don't know if this is true or not but i've read nearly the same exact thing on other sources for rotary information.
I've been keeping up with 09Factors thread and I think its great what he's doing because it opens new possibilities for those that give up hope on their "slow" 4 ports. I hope to do a custom turbo setup a few years from now so I can maybe set a new bar as to how much power we can squeeze out of these engines.

^^^ I'm pretty sure Phil's engine IS ported. :D:

a custom turbo setup a few years from now so I can maybe set a new bar as to how much power we can squeeze out of these engines.

I'm thinking by the time a couple years comes your goals of 275-300 whp will have been exceeded on the 4 port

300whp on a 4port is a very lofty goal.

In my experiences the 4 port responds well to FI and baselines NA on a Mustang dyno around 145 whp with simple bolt-ons. I don't believe a little more than doubling the hp is lofty. How much cash it will cost is of course an entirely different issue.

^^^ I'm pretty sure Phil's engine IS ported. :D:
Yes it is. Ray and Erick did it on my last rebuild. Erick tells me that due to the design of the irons that not a lot could be done.

RedDevil: look at Phil's car. over $15,000 later and still not at 300whp.
This isn't a stab at Phil's car but I would hate for people to walk in here thinking that 300whp will be easily achieved with FI.

Will it be done? Yeah, I'm sure SOMEONE will do it eventually with a 4port but at what cost?! Certainly not any cost that would seem 'reasonable' to most.


Phil: I think I have pics of your ported engine. Lemme go look...

yup, found it.



http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/Jedi54/110508_183300.jpg

yup, found it.



http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/Jedi54/110508_183300.jpg
You do a better job of keeping track of my engine than I do. Yup that's it. I was not yet going to say that I have not made 300hp cuz I'm still working on it - but it is a fight. $ are one thing labor is another......you can not believe the hours spent here. Some day I'll find a dyno that is working and have it done just to see what I have.

Phil: SoCal Dyno Day 2010 is just around the corner.
We've got a great dyno shop; same one that we used last year. You just bring that sexy beast of a car and we'll see what she throws down.

Phil: SoCal Dyno Day 2010 is just around the corner.
We've got a great dyno shop; same one that we used last year. You just bring that sexy beast of a car and we'll see what she throws down.
Unless I blow another engine, put me on the list.

I think it would be relatively easy to make 270whp on an AT 4port . looking at my 300+whp 6 port dyno I can see that it makes 285whp even before the aux port opens . At this point it is still a 4 port motor .
Taking the extra losses from an AT of say 15whp you should see 270whp at around 10-11 pounds of boost .
Just needs someone to actually try boosting at that level . I really can't see what is so hard about that .....

RedDevil: look at Phil's car. over $15,000 later and still not at 300whp.
This isn't a stab at Phil's car but I would hate for people to walk in here thinking that 300whp will be easily achieved with FI.

Will it be done? Yeah, I'm sure SOMEONE will do it eventually with a 4port but at what cost?! Certainly not any cost that would seem 'reasonable' to most.

The cost should be no different to reach 300whp on the 4 port than what it costs for the 6 port model. It will just take more boost for the lower rpm limit.

I don't want to use Phil for the debate as he is one owner with one car and a chosen upgrade path, etc...

I have yet to see anyone place a kit on their car that was intended for more than 60-70 bhp. The Petitt kit was never really meant to add more as far as it's pulley drives, and I have yet to see someone with the 5" pulley post a dyno. When someone slaps on a kit that was meant for higher boost levels like the Esmeril than we'll see just how the 4 port AT does.

does any know of any YouTube videos that have AT 8 turbo charged or one that has FI?

Was there any talks about esmeril hooking up an automatic. Do you think it will be to much for a 4 port.

I think it would be relatively easy to make 270whp on an AT 4port . looking at my 300+whp 6 port dyno I can see that it makes 285whp even before the aux port opens . At this point it is still a 4 port motor .
Taking the extra losses from an AT of say 15whp you should see 270whp at around 10-11 pounds of boost .
Just needs someone to actually try boosting at that level . I really can't see what is so hard about that .....
Your not trying it - I would prefer not to loose another engine. I'll just take my time.

The cost should be no different to reach 300whp on the 4 port than what it costs for the 6 port model. It will just take more boost for the lower rpm limit.

I don't want to use Phil for the debate as he is one owner with one car and a chosen upgrade path, etc...

I have yet to see anyone place a kit on their car that was intended for more than 60-70 bhp. The Petitt kit was never really meant to add more as far as it's pulley drives, and I have yet to see someone with the 5" pulley post a dyno. When someone slaps on a kit that was meant for higher boost levels like the Esmeril than we'll see just how the 4 port AT does. I beg to differ with you on the cost. If it was only cost hell mine would have been there a long time ago and several of those that chose the turbo way would also be there. If you would read Pettit's little sales pitch on the s/c you would see that at some point he was going to offer (and now has)a different pulley package. The pulley package has been out for sometime on the 6 port MTs and just recently Pettit released it for the 4 port models. I am taking my time with everything so that I do not loose an engine. I may do a dyno when the Cali club does their dyno days but until then it will be taking my time to make sure it's right. As for what the added hp is from the kit on the 6 ports, you may want to visit the Pettit owners thread and ask those that have it.

I beg to differ with you on the cost. If it was only cost hell mine would have been there a long time ago and several of those that chose the turbo way would also be there. If you would read Pettit's little sales pitch on the s/c you would see that at some point he was going to offer (and now has)a different pulley package. The pulley package has been out for sometime on the 6 port MTs and just recently Pettit released it for the 4 port models. I am taking my time with everything so that I do not loose an engine. I may do a dyno when the Cali club does their dyno days but until then it will be taking my time to make sure it's right. As for what the added hp is from the kit on the 6 ports, you may want to visit the Pettit owners thread and ask those that have it.

I'm aware of the upgrade, if you would take a look at my post again I specifically mentioned the 5" pulley, the standard Pettit kit has a 4.5" one instead (I'm looking at it as I write this on my desk). The 4.5" option is what I was referring to and that was not intended for higher boost.

As for everything else, I'm looking forward to seeing your dyno results.

Here are some of the pics during the porting I did for Phil's engine. These are unfinished. Only issue is Mazda made the ports as big as they could. They really didn't leave a lot of room for enlargement. The water jacket is close to the port sides so you can't cut a whole lot out.
Mainly what I did was to smooth the flow. There are some casting edges inside the port that were removed. And made the trailing edge a bit higher and a little larger.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/Easy_E1/Phils%20Engine%20Rebuild/mini-PhilsPorting11082008013.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/Easy_E1/Phils%20Engine%20Rebuild/mini-PhilsPorting11082008011.jpg

Now as discussed I don't see an issue with obtaining 275+ WHP out of the 4 port with porting and a decent FI kit.

I still need to dyno mine since the 75 shot was hooked up and tuned and the dwell reset on the BHR coils. I'm thinking I have a little over 200 WHP at this point in time.
Plus we are still working on a few things with the higher N2O shots. 100 shot here I come.

I'm thinking by the time a couple years comes your goals of 275-300 whp will have been exceeded on the 4 port
That may be true but im not being super clear with my intentions on here. I plan to put the Esmeril Racing turbo kit on my car and see what type of power i'll be making. Then after i'll try to create a custom turbo kit that includes an upgraded intake manifold, turbocharger, and the works. I was thinking switch to a manual transmission to accomodate the extra power that im shooting for. My goals by then would be from whatever power I make with the Esmeril Turbo to 450whp :SHOCKED: :fingersx:(there goes my optimism again) I believe anythings possible.

.................................................. Plus we are still working on a few things with the higher N2O shots. 100 shot here I come.
I sure am glad I bought stock in that manifold factory:evil_laug

I believe anythings possible.

in that case you should have said ONE MILLION horsepower

Wow with all this banter going on, looks like i missed out..
The 4port intake manifold wouldn't be that hard to remake into something that flowed smoother and better.

After looking into it's design it appears to direct more air into the rear rotor in a pressurized situation.


O9Factor is presently doing some things to his turbo ride (bigger turbo) and only giving us limited information (I don't blame him). He was an innovator with his first install so I expect to see wonders come from this one.

Thanks for the kind words Phil.

After looking into it's design it appears to direct more air into the rear rotor in a pressurized situation.

Due to the design of the UIM , I feel that way about the N2O.

Here are some of the pics during the porting I did for Phil's engine. These are unfinished. Only issue is Mazda made the ports as big as they could. They really didn't leave a lot of room for enlargement. The water jacket is close to the port sides so you can't cut a whole lot out.
Mainly what I did was to smooth the flow. There are some casting edges inside the port that were removed. And made the trailing edge a bit higher and a little larger.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/Easy_E1/Phils%20Engine%20Rebuild/mini-PhilsPorting11082008013.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/Easy_E1/Phils%20Engine%20Rebuild/mini-PhilsPorting11082008011.jpg

Now as discussed I don't see an issue with obtaining 275+ WHP out of the 4 port with porting and a decent FI kit.

I still need to dyno mine since the 75 shot was hooked up and tuned and the dwell reset on the BHR coils. I'm thinking I have a little over 200 WHP at this point in time.
Plus we are still working on a few things with the higher N2O shots. 100 shot here I come.

nice to hear ;)

Has anyone heard Phil's 8? Except the "usual suspects" ie Jedi, Easy_E1, etc... Does anyone have a sound clip? Anybody!?!?!?!:rock:

You live in the same city and you haven't heard it? JK Always thought it was pretty quite compared to mine. Straight midpipe and Mazdaspeed twin catback I have.

My car has 81,000 miles on it. The AP has been on for 40,000+ miles (9000 redline). And the original transmission. I've changed the fluid twice now and both times it is clear and red. NOT burned at all. It's due to be changed again and I'm going to try Enos AT Fluid this time. It's still clear and red and unburned. I've been using what the dealer recommends so far. And I do the power flush when it's gets changed.

What Phil was referring to is that the transmission will "slip" (rpms shoot up) when engaging 2nd to 3rd gears. Sometimes. It does this regardless of the rpm preset redline. 7500 or 9000.
I've owned two AT 8's (4 speed)and they both did it. If your in second gear for an extended period of time (cruising at say 6000 rpm) and floor it and shift into 3rd. It sometimes does not immediately engage. And the rpm's increase with no load on the trans before it does. It does not do this all the time.

Now Mazda looked at both my cars and had no answer or resolution to this issue. They attribute it to high fluid pressure on the shift solenoid. So I let off the gas a little and it works fine.
That is the only issue I have with the AT transmission and it really isn't that big of a deal.

Now do you have a secondary tranny cooler though that is the question... because id totally buy a Cobb AP with MM's tune if I could run it safely... o and lets not mention the torque converter... I thought it couldnt keep up very well and do its job very efficently which is another reason the redline is limited to 7500rpms...

Now do you have a secondary tranny cooler though that is the question... because id totally buy a Cobb AP with MM's tune if I could run it safely... o and lets not mention the torque converter... I thought it couldnt keep up very well and do its job very efficently which is another reason the redline is limited to 7500rpms...
You obviously don't read the thread before you ask your questions. Yes he and I have a secondary tranny cooler. One that is over sized, as it's built into the BHR radiator and then just for shits and giggles I have (and I think Easy does to) a secondary one. There are several of us that (had) reset the redline at or above 9000 (10,000 in my case) with no problem to the a/t. This a/t is stronger than you would give it credit for. My shift points are now set for 8700 rpm and they are as smooth as stock. Now all that said I have my tranny fluid changed regularly. Living in the desert with it's 117 degree days and the fact that the 8 runs extremely hot will destroy even the Royal Purple tranny fluid I use. Having the Cobb AP has no bearing on how your car is set up - it will improve a completely stock one or help make a screaming dragon. Stock limits are left stock unless you request upgrades.
I drive like a great grandpa (cuz I am) :uhh: but Erick is crazy:crazy: with his driving and if the tranny can stand up to him then I would say it's strong.

Has anyone heard Phil's 8? Except the "usual suspects" ie Jedi, Easy_E1, etc... Does anyone have a sound clip? Anybody!?!?!?!:rock:
Hell your at my house enough, make a sound clip. In fact I would want you to so I have something to compair it to when I get the BHR mid pipe.

You live in the same city and you haven't heard it? JK Always thought it was pretty quite compared to mine. Straight midpipe and Mazdaspeed twin catback I have.
Erick, mine is a Racing Beat twin catback and a Pettit straight pipe (no resinators). I think it's a little quieter than yours due to the s/c. I have a little drone I would like to get rid of and am counting on the BHR single resinated mid pipe to control.

Alright well sorry I missed the one saying you had one, would both of yall recommend waiting to get the Cobb AP before I get a new radiator or after? or maybe just a secondary tranny cooler? Im just trying to find out if its safe without those 2 to be running the A/T around 8750 rpms with just the Cobb AP...

1) Easy_E1 and I did an MM Upgrade Turbo Kit install on a 6-port A/T several months ago. His username is "BlueKnight".
2) I have done 90% (or more) of the work on Phil's car. He is using the Eneos A/T fluid right now and Easy is about to.
3) The A/T guys benefit from the same first two best mods as the M/T guys; Cobb AP from MM and the BHR Ignition System. Get these first and worry about everything else afterward.
4) If you are going to use nitrous on an A/T application, staying in open-loop during use of "The Shot" is crucial.
5) Phil is about to take delivery of one of the coolest parts upgrades for the Pettit S/C Kit. Three wheel-lookin' things and a hoop-lookin' thing. All with teeth. :lol2:
6) BHR will be featuring 6 cars in our booth at SevenStock and they will come in all different varieties. The one thing they share is that they are NOT "parts-hanger trailer queens". They are customers' cars/our own cars, are routinely driven, and these guys asked to be included in our booth this year. We are utmost proud and blessed to such guys as our customers.

Thanks Charles... Ill try to save up some money and go out and get the Cobb AP with MM tune real soon... kinda excited to see a 8750RPM redline on a auto... hmm I wonder how much different my car will feel now...

Between the AP and the coil kit it will feel and sound like a whole new car. Plus, MM will turn your radiator fans on sooner and that may be all you need to keep the temps in the range you are comfortable with.

1) Easy_E1 and I did an MM Upgrade Turbo Kit install on a 6-port A/T several months ago. His username is "BlueKnight".
.

Did he dyno it ? would love to see the result ....

Not yet.

was it quick ? LOL

quik update on my 6-port a/t.. My engine is back in the car running better than ever. I'm about to order Cobbs AP and a midpipe from corksport... im in the process of looking for a MT drive shaft(carbon fiber).. The MT driveshaft fits perfectly on the AT transmission. That should put a couple more HP to the ground...

in about 2 weeks i will start ordering the turbo parts.

Ray keeps removing my front bumber:

He just can't stop:

why has it taken so long for someone to do that ???? - looks perfect !

what size is that air filter?

It is a K+N RX-4140. 4" flange with a 3.5" base. The pipe is a Vibrant piece as is the silicone coupler.

i need something like that with a 3" base.

The only K+N part number that comes close is the RB-0910 but that one has a 5-degree angled base flange. If that slight angle won't pose a problem for you, we may have a winner.

Whoa, that's a burly sillykone coupler.

Oh well we took a couple of more pix under the hood:

The last of them for now

I can't wait until I can afford the SC. Someone donate me 10k :naughty:

whoo hoo i got my BHR midpipe installed today, its quite a difference..not a big one but nonetheless feel-able on the AT especially going to 8500 rpm :Eyecrazy: cant wait for the rest on my future mods.

For those of you looking for a stronger intake manifold, Pettit sells theirs independent of the SC kit. That is what I'm using.

mdw1000, could you take a pic of your set up? I'm always looking for stronger UIM manifolds. :Eyecrazy:

For those of you looking for a stronger intake manifold, Pettit sells theirs independent of the SC kit. That is what I'm using.

That is interesting. How much? Link?

That is interesting. How much? Link?

I would give them a call. When we got MDW's they happened to have a few left over and I think the pricing was off the cuff...

It was about 500 at the time, but that was awhile ago.

I would give them a call. When we got MDW's they happened to have a few left over and I think the pricing was off the cuff...

Thanks. Not interested in buying so I would not want to waste their time. Just interested in reading or hearing about it.

It was about 500 at the time, but that was awhile ago.

Do you have a thread on the UIM? I'm just really curious about any gains and other areas that have improved since installing.

Thanks. Not interested in buying so I would not want to waste their time. Just interested in reading or hearing about it.
Do you have a thread on the UIM? I'm just really curious about any gains and other areas that have improved since installing.

I don't know about using the UIM for NA gains. We used it to make it easier to hook up our eaton blower.

Easy,

Don't have any really good pictures yet, it is still kind of a work in progress. But it basically looks the same as Phil's pictures, just with a different supercharger and no intercooler. Same intake manifold, except mine hasn't had the tubing for the two additional ports cut off and capped. It came from Pettit with those on there, but with them capped at the end. I guess that way you could potentially resell it to someone with a 6-port.

Thanks. I was just curious as to what you had going. I'm an inquiring mind, I want to know. lol

lol same here im getting an 06 sti......hopefully:naughty:

I'm going to steal a 2009 Nissan GTR:fingersx: