Hello,

I just want to ask a few questions about this pretty nice looking turbo kit. In first line, I have to say, I've been writing to the Esmeril Racing for two times about month ago, but they didn't send back answers, so I'm looking for my answers in here.

I have an European version of Mazda RX-8, 170 kW, selling name Revolution Top, there is an adition in name as "Mazda RX-8 SE" ... year of make is 2005, mileage is 70thousand kilometers (aprox 44.000 miles).

I really want to buy Esmeril Racing turbo kit, but here is few questions that troubles me:

1. is this kit suitable for European 170 kW version of RX-8 ?
2. should be some problem with mileage of this car ?
3. is this kit suitable for everyday driving ?
4. what parts I'm in need, except esmeril turbo kit and esmeril ignition upgrade, to be pretty sure, that I reach their dyno values?
(esmeril dyno values: 414whp (~490hp@crank) at 16psi (Esmeril Racing Igniton Upgrade Installed). RPM Pickup had some trouble so we had to do it in MPH. Max torque at the wheels was 304.)

Thank you very much for the answers, maybe you get me little bit closer to have this done ...

I know they have apex seals change to get 414WHP
And you should go and read more here

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=159170&highlight=esmeril+turbo+kit

I know they have apex seals change to get 414WHP
And you should go and read more here

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=159170&highlight=esmeril+turbo+kit

Actually we did the 414whp run on stock apex seals. They were changed later with the purpose of hitting 500whp and we are close to posting some new dyno charts with those numbers :).

Best regards,

Chris

Hello,

I just want to ask a few questions about this pretty nice looking turbo kit. In first line, I have to say, I've been writing to the Esmeril Racing for two times about month ago, but they didn't send back answers, so I'm looking for my answers in here.

I have an European version of Mazda RX-8, 170 kW, selling name Revolution Top, there is an adition in name as "Mazda RX-8 SE" ... year of make is 2005, mileage is 70thousand kilometers (aprox 44.000 miles).

I really want to buy Esmeril Racing turbo kit, but here is few questions that troubles me:

1. is this kit suitable for European 170 kW version of RX-8 ?
2. should be some problem with mileage of this car ?
3. is this kit suitable for everyday driving ?
4. what parts I'm in need, except esmeril turbo kit and esmeril ignition upgrade, to be pretty sure, that I reach their dyno values?
(esmeril dyno values: 414whp (~490hp@crank) at 16psi (Esmeril Racing Igniton Upgrade Installed). RPM Pickup had some trouble so we had to do it in MPH. Max torque at the wheels was 304.)

Thank you very much for the answers, maybe you get me little bit closer to have this done ...



I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. We had a glitch with our email service provider and found out it was selectively delivering emails to us and we had lost dozens of emails over that last couple of months. If you want you can either resend your original email messages via PM on this forum and I will answer all of your questions.

Here are the answers to your questions:

1. The kit will bolt up to your car, the fuel management will have to be set up for your injection which is only 4 injectors instead of 6 if I am not mistaken.

2. I am not sure I understand the question but in reference to total mileage of the car, as long as the engine is in good shape there shouldn't be any issues.

3. The kit is suitable for daily driving, it was designed for daily driving and tested under both winter and summer conditions.

4. If you are shooting for 400whp you will need to upgrade your clutch...besides that everything else is pretty much covered.

I would also like to add that the Esmeril Racing RX-8 Turbo Kit now comes with a Tial Brand low profile/v-band wastegate which does not protrude from the bottom of the car and it has the obvious advantage of being a usa, brand name piece. This takes cares of two issues people criticized; the wastegate being lower than the rest of the car and the wastegate not being a brand unit.

We will also add the option of a Precision Turbo turbocharger to our sale page for those that would rather have a brand name turbo.

Thanks for the interest.

Best regards,

Chris

Nice updates to the kit Chris... an upgraded turbo and better wastegate should resolve a lot of the complaints. What are the specs on the upgraded turbo and how much extra will it be on top of the kit cost?

nice fix on the wastegate! any pics of the tial wastegate clearance?

Nice updates to the kit Chris... an upgraded turbo and better wastegate should resolve a lot of the complaints. What are the specs on the upgraded turbo and how much extra will it be on top of the kit cost?

We are actually in the decision making process on that subject there are two mayor candidates and their cost is less than $100 apart. We are still working out the details with PT on vendor pricing etc and we will release that info as soon as everything is finalized, that is the reason we haven't mentioned it until now and its not in our website yet. The wastegate is already in-place and all kits are currently begin shipped with the new unit.

Best regards,

Chris

nice fix on the wastegate! any pics of the tial wastegate clearance?

There is no clearance issues at all. it doesn't stick out at all, the new wastegate is about 3" shorter than the old one and the old one only stuck out about 1"-1.25".

No pics yet but I can assure you the issue is resolved ;)


Best regards,

Chris

nice :)

you should upgrade your tread Chris !!
And hope see some new numbers soon

nice :)

you should upgrade your tread Chris !!
And hope see some new numbers soon

I will actually create a new thread because the 500whp build is no longer with an out of box kit. We are using a larger turbo(yeah, larger), our apex seals and a complete dual pump return E85 system. We are also replacing our stock intake manifold for custom aluminum one with a plenum. We know that 500whp is attainable with the stock one (ask me how I know ;)) but we wanted to experiment with this. The purpose of this build is no longer to see what the kit can do (since we already accomplished the kit goals) but to show what can be done with a Renesis if you really want to without having to switch engines (everything is bolt on).

The idea is to have an extremely comfortable 500whp range Renesis that can be driven daily without fear of exploding.

We've been very quiet for a reason.......we are very excited about all this...

Chris

It looks like you will have the most powerful rx8 in the US

Good job

So just to clarify: The kit being sold will bolt right up and be safe for daily driving with a good engine? I've been trying to follow the threads, but I'm having trouble digging through the fluff. 16lb of boost is quite a lot more than the GReddy.

Also, the EMS, if I choose to purchase that in addition to the kit, will I still have to get a tune in order to drive it. Obviously, tuning with help with making sure everything is tip top, but as is, is the EMS a drop in tune? I'm not sure I understand. What if I purchase without the EMS" Will the car still be drivable or is a tune needed. Will I have to drive to a tuner while staying out of boost?

Pardon the ignorance and thread-jacking, but my wife and I share the car and are looking at the different kits and she wants to go with the one with the least amount of trouble out of the box.

Chris, have you tried making the kit tunable with the AP? Maybe a kit that would work directly with the AP?

There is no clearance issues at all. it doesn't stick out at all, the new wastegate is about 3" shorter than the old one and the old one only stuck out about 1"-1.25".

No pics yet but I can assure you the issue is resolved ;)


Best regards,

Chris

So it wont look like this anymore??

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/Pballman/P1010629.jpg

So it wont look like this anymore??

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/Pballman/P1010629.jpg

Nope it wont....and btw...that is not how we hook up our wastegates or how we recommend we hook them up either or how our instructions say you hook it up(we don't hook up to that thread, we only use the one on the side and that one remains unplugged)...I have a feeling there were way better ways to hook up that line without it sticking out that much, that fitting isn't even screwed all the way in, but I guess you wanted to prove something.

The new wastegate doesn't stick out at all so this is pointless :) :)

Best regards,

Chris

AND

i'm willing to bet $5 that that car is pretty lowered.

Nope it wont....and btw...that is not how we hook up our wastegates or how we recommend we hook them up either or how our instructions say you hook it up(we don't hook up to that thread, we only use the one on the side and that one remains unplugged)...I have a feeling there were way better ways to hook up that line without it sticking out that much, that fitting isn't even screwed all the way in, but I guess you wanted to prove something.

The new wastegate doesn't stick out at all so this is pointless :) :)

Best regards,

Chris

Thats how my AEM boost controller said to set it up as. So i followed that. And have you ever put a fitting on there? Shit gets really tight after only a few turns. It could be either the WG was tapped wrong, or the fitting is. Either way didn't want to prove anything but show how low it was. So if you take offense for me posting this picture then you shouldn't of sold the kit with this particular WG.

And good thing the new WG is smaller, so now the guys that have a LOWER car or even a STOCK height car don't have to worry about it.
And yes my car IS lowered, never made a claim that it wasn't... :icon_no2:

Thats how my AEM boost controller said to set it up as. So i followed that. And have you ever put a fitting on there? Shit gets really tight after only a few turns. It could be either the WG was tapped wrong, or the fitting is. Either way didn't want to prove anything but show how low it was. So if you take offense for me posting this picture then you shouldn't of sold the kit with this particular WG.

And good thing the new WG is smaller, so now the guys that have a LOWER car or even a STOCK height car don't have to worry about it.
And yes my car IS lowered, never made a claim that it wasn't... :icon_no2:

I see, not trying to sound upset. As a tip, putting Teflon on those thread will allow them to push way further in.

About the AEM boost controller, there are options, normally you don't use the top port unless you want to go way higher that what is reachable with the wastegate spring and a boost controller using only the side port. We have put fittings there but we did ti to allow more than 18psi, up to that it wasn't necessary.

I apologize if I came off as upset.

Best regards,

Chris

These recent updates to the kit sound excellent.

I am really looking forward to additional information, photos and an updated website displaying the new components and price increase.

Good work!

Thank you very much for the answers, from now I can finally sleep better :)

I have just only last question I forgot, maybe this will be very stupit question to you, but I have to ask to be sure.

- do I need after bolt on instalation of turbo kit and ignition upgrade and clutch go to some chiptuning company to chiptune (program) ecu? Or do I need completely new ecu? I've been reading posts, that many rx-8 owners are using interceptor-x computer, is this thing I have to have? Esmeril is giving some ecu maps with the turbo kit, if I understand their page. Can I just load this map to the oem rx-8 ecu and things will work like they shout?
- inhere, aftermarket ECUs are thing, that goverment and police doesn't like, years ago police took from me little bit expensive aftermarket ecu from subaru impreza and never returned ...

Maybe this is a very stupid question for you, but here in europe is tuning of rotary engines very rare thing, maybe I will be one of the first people doing this. We are strongly into power tuning of the Audi or in generaly german diesel engines, that's we are used to do. I been into this for many years. So I just want to be sure, that the tuning process is similar. You add new parts, go to the dyno, chiptune ecu and done.

Thanks :)

Thank you very much for the answers, from now I can finally sleep better :)

I have just only last question I forgot, maybe this will be very stupit question to you, but I have to ask to be sure.

- do I need after bolt on instalation of turbo kit and ignition upgrade and clutch go to some chiptuning company to chiptune (program) ecu? Or do I need completely new ecu? I've been reading posts, that many rx-8 owners are using interceptor-x computer, is this thing I have to have? Esmeril is giving some ecu maps with the turbo kit, if I understand their page. Can I just load this map to the oem rx-8 ecu and things will work like they shout?
- inhere, aftermarket ECUs are thing, that goverment and police doesn't like, years ago police took from me little bit expensive aftermarket ecu from subaru impreza and never returned ...

Maybe this is a very stupid question for you, but here in europe is tuning of rotary engines very rare thing, maybe I will be one of the first people doing this. We are strongly into power tuning of the Audi or in generaly german diesel engines, that's we are used to do. I been into this for many years. So I just want to be sure, that the tuning process is similar. You add new parts, go to the dyno, chiptune ecu and done.

Thanks :)


Sorry to hi-jack the tread but you in Europe you should consider also some other options for FI
Ηι, If you are in Greece , try JDM-R for force induction solutions
If you are in UK, try pettit racing.

pm me for details

So it wont look like this anymore??

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/Pballman/P1010629.jpg

I just finish installing mine, one with new wastegate. The wastegate is sitting about the same height as the oil pan. No more worry about wategate getting knockoff by speed bumps.

I just finish installing mine, one with new wastegate. The wastegate is sitting about the same height as the oil pan. No more worry about wategate getting knockoff by speed bumps.

Care to post some pics of the new setup?

Care to post some pics of the new setup?


I will try to borrow a camera and post photo sometime soon.

So just to clarify: The kit being sold will bolt right up and be safe for daily driving with a good engine? I've been trying to follow the threads, but I'm having trouble digging through the fluff. 16lb of boost is quite a lot more than the GReddy.

Also, the EMS, if I choose to purchase that in addition to the kit, will I still have to get a tune in order to drive it. Obviously, tuning with help with making sure everything is tip top, but as is, is the EMS a drop in tune? I'm not sure I understand. What if I purchase without the EMS" Will the car still be drivable or is a tune needed. Will I have to drive to a tuner while staying out of boost?

Pardon the ignorance and thread-jacking, but my wife and I share the car and are looking at the different kits and she wants to go with the one with the least amount of trouble out of the box.


If you are looking for an one of the least troublesome kits look at the pettit kit, however you wont get the hp or torque gains that you would out of the esmeril kit

honestly if you are going for the turbocharger route, with as much reading about the kits that I have been doing, Esmeril is the way to go (they have great power gains, a high quality product, and from what I hear good customer service.

However if you want the most reliable kit out there I think it might be the Pettit supercharger kit (low maintenance, easy bolt on, and tuning all done by pettit)

honestly if you are going for the turbocharger route, with as much reading about the kits that I have been doing, Esmeril is the way to go (they have great power gains, a high quality product, and from what I hear good customer service.

However if you want the most reliable kit out there I think it might be the Pettit supercharger kit (low maintenance, easy bolt on, and tuning all done by pettit)


I have to agree with you on the Esmeril kit. I have done a lot of shopping around for FI kits before I settle down on this kit. The exhaust manifold is very very strong and solid. Good over all quaility parts and everything come with the kit. Everything fit the way they suppose to. The only thing you need to get are gauges and WB O2 sensor. I also heard that the base map work pretty well out of the box. I happen to live 20 mins away from Chris who create this kit and he has been helpful and so does Jason from Mazdaparts.com. I have a friend with experience in FI help me install the kit. I couldn't get it done without his help so my hat goes off to him too. The installation is not too difficult but tedious.

In the end the reliability of FI (beside the components) come down to how well the car is tuned. One tune doesn't work all the time. Weather may get real hot or it may get real cold. You have to tune it to match the current condition. I will take my time to understand the concept of tuning so I can make some minor changes on my car to avoid issues as much as possible. I know the risk of going to FI but whether FI or NA, tuning is very critical for reliability of engine. My car is almost ready to run. I just have to finsih some minor detail and hopefully get it complete by this weekend.

And I have to agree with you that Pettit racing superchargered is the most reliable form of FI right now. I haven't seen or heard anyone has issue with it. My dad used to have a hot rodded Volvo 760 turbo and that one of the reason I decide to turbo my car in stead of going supercharged.

I have to agree with you on the Esmeril kit. I have done a lot of shopping around for FI kits before I settle down on this kit. The exhaust manifold is very very strong and solid. Good over all quaility parts and everything come with the kit. Everything fit the way they suppose to. The only thing you need to get are gauges and WB O2 sensor. I also heard that the base map work pretty well out of the box. I happen to live 20 mins away from Chris who create this kit and he has been helpful and so does Jason from Mazdaparts.com. I have a friend with experience in FI help me install the kit. I couldn't get it done without his help so my hat goes off to him too. The installation is not too difficult but tedious.

In the end the reliability of FI (beside the components) come down to how well the car is tuned. One tune doesn't work all the time. Weather may get real hot or it may get real cold. You have to tune it to match the current condition. I will take my time to understand the concept of tuning so I can make some minor changes on my car to avoid issues as much as possible. I know the risk of going to FI but whether FI or NA, tuning is very critical for reliability of engine. My car is almost ready to run. I just have to finsih some minor detail and hopefully get it complete by this weekend.

And I have to agree with you that Pettit racing superchargered is the most reliable form of FI right now. I haven't seen or heard anyone has issue with it. My dad used to have a hot rodded Volvo 760 turbo and that one of the reason I decide to turbo my car in stead of going supercharged.

Which turbo came with your kit Luckycat? The new turbo or the much-discussed original unit?

Definitely post plenty of pictures of the new setup when you have some time!

Which turbo came with your kit Luckycat? The new turbo or the much-discussed original unit?

Definitely post plenty of pictures of the new setup when you have some time!

His has the original turbo. The new turbo hasn't been fully negotiated with the supplier yet. We will post on the forum when it becomes available officially. He does have the new wastegate setup.

Best regards,

Chris

I understand that Pettit kit is more safe to use for me, but I REALLY want ESMERIL :)

Its because I want serious HP upgrade, not the tiny little one with pettit :)

Only thing that is a problem, is the distance from where I live to the US, so if something happen, I will have to wait few weeks for parts :icon_no2:

So in this case, I have to be sure that I can believe to the Esmeril Racing that they created kit the best way they can and there is a verry little chance something bad will happen. I think I can believe in their engineering :)

- Chris, I had another question on the previous page (the stupid one about tuning ECU), I'll be glad you answer me because you're head engineer :)
- second thing, about the gauges ... do I really need them? And what is "WB O2 sensor" ?

There should be some manual to this turbo kit to download, which when I read, I'll understand everything ... Is it somewhere to download?

Hey chris, is this new WG still a 60mm?? cause im tying to find a tial 60mm short top one but cant find it. might relocate it and get a 44mm.

Glad to see you guys are making improvements with the kit. I would REALLY like to see some pictures of that metal UIM!

Hey chris, is this new WG still a 60mm?? cause im tying to find a tial 60mm short top one but cant find it. might relocate it and get a 44mm.

It is not 60mm anymore. It is a well designed 38mm wastegate which has really good flow paths and is the latest from Tial. We expect flows matching at least what a standard 44mm would flow. not as much as the original 60mm but it was a trade-off we decided to make due to the fact that most people that buy our kit will not be shooting for 500whp. It works great and is a great match to the current manifold design.

Best regards,

Chris

Glad to see you guys are making improvements with the kit. I would REALLY like to see some pictures of that metal UIM!

Alright....you twisted my arm....ask and thou shall receive... :)

Please dont tell anyone about this...this is Top Secret Esmeril Work.... ;)

Best regards,

Chris

p.s.I will not answer any dimensional questions about the intake so don't try...just enjoy the pics...

ohhhhhh

Holy shit...

Here are a few of the mocked manifold inside the engine bay...some other things are visible also...enjoy.....no questions yet please...

Best regards,

Chris

whoa!

Can ppl with the original kit get your new waste gate to buy?

wow, very interesting changes

wont work ours is 60mm, new is smaller.

wow, very interesting changes

Its not about changing the kit design. The kit works great in its current form and is ideal. The reason we are changing everything is because we can :) and we want to push the Renesis engine to limit. Air to Air are better street intercoolers under most circumstances, the reason we went with an air to water is because with the bigger turbo we wanted to reduce lag as much as possible and the air to water allows a very short travel from turbo to throttle body, not to mention that the intercooler has less internal volume to fill.

Best regards,

Chris

Wow that looks so badass!!

how is the idle with the new UIM?

amazing project :)

ooooooh is right!!!

Woot! Nice..... Can not wait to see the newest Dyno..... When I get this kit I will only aiming for 340WHP give my brothers Vette a run for it's money.... we'll see how long till I want to shoot for more power.

I was so excited to know that if I wanted my 8 could make 400+ wheel HP. Give my brothers GN A good run then....lol....

One thing I've been meaning to ask for a while is..... are you guys planning to udate the kit to work with the AP. If I remember right it had something to do with the location of the MAF and tube length/size. Hopefullu mid Augutst I'll be ready to buy.

that's sexy. you just changed my mind from supercharging in the future. and i know you said no questions...but...wheres your strut bar?

any gains n/a?

this looks very nice btw.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c157/myriads/wowzers.jpg.

More info!

holy crap!! that intake manifold is blinging! I would love to have one of those in my bay

Holy crap, new manifold + a/w intercooler is win...

I didn't seem to see the Access Port compatibility mentioned before, has there been any work into getting that up and running yet? I imagine that adding that a/w could free up a nice path for an intake pipe through the standard intake chassis hole thing (highly scientific terminology there).

BTW chris, hows your stock oil system working for you?

I think there would be significant tuning hurdles with using a MAF sensor and the AP. It would probably have to be in blow-through configuration (after the turbo as opposed to before it) and that I imagine that would cause major calibration issues. The best thing to do would be to look into how Evo's are running blow-through MAF sensors while reflashing the factory PCM, if they are in fact doing so.

pure sex

No air filter ?

Alright....you twisted my arm....ask and thou shall receive... :)

Please dont tell anyone about this...this is Top Secret Esmeril Work.... ;)

Best regards,

Chris

p.s.I will not answer any dimensional questions about the intake so don't try...just enjoy the pics...

Any ideas when this will be ready??

I was wanting to go FI this summer and narrowed it down to 2 kits (this one and the pettit). Untill I started reading this thread it was a definite choice, pettit. But now I have to say I'm really starting to look hard at this kit, its 700 dollars cheaper, seems built very well and you guys are still doing R&D on it...not to mention its capable of 400+ hp which I'm not so sure the pettit can even come close to.

My biggest concern is reliability......I want a kit that I can use every day, wont kill me on maintenance (I have no problems with doing maintenance work just want to keep it half way simple lol), and can produce massive power on command

I think there would be significant tuning hurdles with using a MAF sensor and the AP. It would probably have to be in blow-through configuration (after the turbo as opposed to before it) and that I imagine that would cause major calibration issues. The best thing to do would be to look into how Evo's are running blow-through MAF sensors while reflashing the factory PCM, if they are in fact doing so.

Right, but with the nice addition of the a/w intercooler it opens up (I'm assuming) the stock intake/vfad routing area that was originally filled with intercooler piping (I believe). So there potentially could be a viable draw-through solution if the intake pipe could be extended through the front bumper to create a CAI. At least that was my thought process when I initially saw the new setup...

So I've got a question, If say I were to buy the current set up thats for sale from mazdaparts would I be able to later purchase and easily install these upgrades that esmeril is working on?

Right, but with the nice addition of the a/w intercooler it opens up (I'm assuming) the stock intake/vfad routing area that was originally filled with intercooler piping (I believe). So there potentially could be a viable draw-through solution if the intake pipe could be extended through the front bumper to create a CAI. At least that was my thought process when I initially saw the new setup...

That turbo has a 4" inlet. Clearly that MAF sensor was not designed to work in 4" piping. Maybe it could be made to work with the correct calibration or something, or maybe a different MAF would be needed. Or you'd have to use a smaller inlet pipe and a reducer, which would be restrictive.

Either way, it would require a lot of development time. Esmeril would have to make sure that people don't try and run the AP and then have serious driveability and/or reliability problems due to the MAF issues. Maybe the MAF sensor would work in one type of setup but not another (without significant recalibration). You may have customers not following installation instructions and then blaming either the AP vendor or Esmeril when something goes wrong. If the MAF issues are significant then from a business perspective AP compatibility could be risky to develop and market.

I'm happy that the kit is going through new upgrades, so I just don't know if to buy now or wait a little bit for the improvements :) :) :)

Good work Esmeril!

I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?

Yea I had hat same question, also how much extra the interceptor would be

I'm happy that the kit is going through new upgrades, so I just don't know if to buy now or wait a little bit for the improvements :) :) :)

Good work Esmeril!

I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?


The interceptor will come with a base map which is rich and you can drive it around safely. They recommend that the car is tuned once it complete the 500 miles break in (drive with no boost). I have my kit install and all I need now is install the gauges and start up the car. I think you can just order the interceptor and has them program base map for you. Ask Mazdapart for more detail. I got mine with the kit.

And what wat the extra cost for interceptor??? Please...

Second thing, you wrote that they provide base map (safe) ... Is esmeril racing providing some extra map (for performance)?

What gauges are you using, link will help, if possible...

And what wat the extra cost for interceptor??? Please...

Second thing, you wrote that they provide base map (safe) ... Is esmeril racing providing some extra map (for performance)?

What gauges are you using, link will help, if possible...

I will tell you what I know since I have been talking to them quite a bit during my installation. If you buy the interceptor through Mazdapart it will cost you around $700-800. You can keep your eye on For Sale forum and buy one yourself which may be cheaper. If you buy one yourself you will have to sent it to Esmeril and have them program the base map.

I will have Esmeril tune my car. According to Chris (I might be wrong this is from my memory) I could get up to 3 maps. The tuning costs would be around $250. The extra maps come from the safe map that has been lean out and certain adjustment will be made and this will increase the horse power from the safe map.

Gauges...I have boost, AFR (Innovate LC1 WB O2 sensor+gauge) and oil pressure gauge. Gauges are from Prosport. You can install more gauges and that is up to you. If you are not installing a lot of gauges, make sure you install the most important gauges like AFR to monitor the air/fuel ratio, boost gauge to monitor the boost and oil pressure gauge since the turbo require oil to lubricate the internal parts. Water temp, oil temp etc are nice to have but I live in colder climate and the chance that I will run the car that hard to over heat it would be almost never. I don't daily drive my car so traffic jam is out of question. That is when lots of over heating occurred.

Radiator upgrade is recommended. I will keep mine stock for now. Everyone I know that live in my area that has turbo in their cars said stock radiator is adequate. If you live in Arizona, it is a must have.

That turbo has a 4" inlet. Clearly that MAF sensor was not designed to work in 4" piping. Maybe it could be made to work with the correct calibration or something, or maybe a different MAF would be needed. Or you'd have to use a smaller inlet pipe and a reducer, which would be restrictive.

Either way, it would require a lot of development time. Esmeril would have to make sure that people don't try and run the AP and then have serious driveability and/or reliability problems due to the MAF issues. Maybe the MAF sensor would work in one type of setup but not another (without significant recalibration). You may have customers not following installation instructions and then blaming either the AP vendor or Esmeril when something goes wrong. If the MAF issues are significant then from a business perspective AP compatibility could be risky to develop and market.

Normally I totally agree with what you are talking about when it comes to turbo talk, but your comments in this thread are laughable. I'm sorry but I don't see a downside to the thought of potentially trying to open the kit up to a readily available (not developed by a now defunct company) EMS like the Access Port that seems to be a relatively popular in the community. I'm not saying they will or they should, I'm saying now the potential to make a pass-through system is there.

Also, I imagine that if someone is dumb enough to not follow the directions of installing anything on their 8 without the proper experience, they are most likely going to have problems and will be unhappy with their product. This is no ones fault by their own, I don't even see why you would bother bringing this issue up as a reason against researching an alternate approach to do something.

Iam not sure if Chris is going to sell the improve turbo setup. He just pushing the engine as far as possible:) and I want to know how much he can squeeze from it.
But anything around 400whp you can get form esmerill turbo and int-x should make you happy !!

Its not about changing the kit design. The kit works great in its current form and is ideal. The reason we are changing everything is because we can :) and we want to push the Renesis engine to limit. Air to Air are better street intercoolers under most circumstances, the reason we went with an air to water is because with the bigger turbo we wanted to reduce lag as much as possible and the air to water allows a very short travel from turbo to throttle body, not to mention that the intercooler has less internal volume to fill.

Best regards,

Chris



OOPSSS! I edited my original post to read:

"Air to Air are better street intercoolers under most cirscumtances"

I mistakenly wrote Air to Water in the original post.

Chris

that's sexy. you just changed my mind from supercharging in the future. and i know you said no questions...but...wheres your strut bar?

haha, its just laying on the ground next to the car, we are still not done with the intake manifold build :)

Best regards,

Chris

I will tell you what I know since I have been talking to them quite a bit during my installation. If you buy the interceptor through Mazdapart it will cost you around $700-800. You can keep your eye on For Sale forum and buy one yourself which may be cheaper. If you buy one yourself you will have to sent it to Esmeril and have them program the base map.

I will have Esmeril tune my car. According to Chris (I might be wrong this is from my memory) I could get up to 3 maps. The tuning costs would be around $250. The extra maps come from the safe map that has been lean out and certain adjustment will be made and this will increase the horse power from the safe map.

Gauges...I have boost, AFR (Innovate LC1 WB O2 sensor+gauge) and oil pressure gauge. Gauges are from Prosport. You can install more gauges and that is up to you. If you are not installing a lot of gauges, make sure you install the most important gauges like AFR to monitor the air/fuel ratio, boost gauge to monitor the boost and oil pressure gauge since the turbo require oil to lubricate the internal parts. Water temp, oil temp etc are nice to have but I live in colder climate and the chance that I will run the car that hard to over heat it would be almost never. I don't daily drive my car so traffic jam is out of question. That is when lots of over heating occurred.

Radiator upgrade is recommended. I will keep mine stock for now. Everyone I know that live in my area that has turbo in their cars said stock radiator is adequate. If you live in Arizona, it is a must have.

I would like to say that a radiator is not required, even in Arizona. The kit has been tested in 100deg weather without issues. Its a nice to have but not required.

Chris

I'm happy that the kit is going through new upgrades, so I just don't know if to buy now or wait a little bit for the improvements :) :) :)

Good work Esmeril!

I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?

The intercooler set up will not be available anytime from us. It requires moving/removal of too many stock components to make it work as well as the mani.

The intake manifold, we didn't plan on selling either simply because the 500whp numbers can be reached with the stock one and the cost to of manufacturing would be stratospheric. We might consider making a few for those that really want it and are willing to pay for it. Again, it was in part an experimental "why not" as opposed to a "we need this". If we test it and see that it provides great gains we might consider selling it. If we do choose to offer the intake mani it will be separate and again, it requires modifications of many other things like the oil spout which has to be fabricated to a different location, all the solenoids for the air pump, the ssv and the valve that joins the front and rear rotors will be gone and inoperable. I am leaving all initial 4 ports open all the time, no airpump and I'm still playing with the APV.

The Esmeril kit will still be sold as it is, with the new Tial WG and the option of the PT turbo.


Best regards,

Chris

arizona can get to 120 degrees....

Chris[/QUOTE]

I think there would be significant tuning hurdles with using a MAF sensor and the AP. It would probably have to be in blow-through configuration (after the turbo as opposed to before it) and that I imagine that would cause major calibration issues. The best thing to do would be to look into how Evo's are running blow-through MAF sensors while reflashing the factory PCM, if they are in fact doing so.

I think otherwise.

I use a very short MAF tube on the end of the compressor and it works well. the esmeril kit may be a little more constricted but I think the space is there.

re-calibrating the maf is possible now for different sized pipes however I have been told that moving a draw through MAF to blow through doesn't require that much retuning as long as you don't change the diameter.

the key to a good MAF is in the detail: size and flow characteristics.

OOPSSS! I edited my original post to read:

"Air to Air are better street intercoolers under most cirscumtances"

I mistakenly wrote Air to Water in the original post.

Chris

I liked the original wording :banghead: very debatable topic.

great work! you are one of the most innovative tuners out there. I love how you're willing to try something different just to see how it works, you
never know otherwise.

The intercooler set up will not be available anytime from us. It requires moving/removal of too many stock components to make it work as well as the mani.

The intake manifold, we didn't plan on selling either simply because the 500whp numbers can be reached with the stock one and the cost to of manufacturing would be stratospheric.
:tear:

I mean the kit is still sexy as hell though...

:tear:

I mean the kit is still sexy as hell though...

Definitely it is! :)

By the way, what will be the brand name of the new turbo? And what time will be available?

I'm more interested in the price difference of the new turbo

I will tell you what I know since I have been talking to them quite a bit during my installation. If you buy the interceptor through Mazdapart it will cost you around $700-800. .

I have to make some correction on the price of the interceptor here.....the price above is discount price that I got when I ordered the turbo last Jan when there was a sale going on. Contact mazdaparts.com if you want to know what the current price is.

Normally I totally agree with what you are talking about when it comes to turbo talk, but your comments in this thread are laughable. I'm sorry but I don't see a downside to the thought of potentially trying to open the kit up to a readily available (not developed by a now defunct company) EMS like the Access Port that seems to be a relatively popular in the community. I'm not saying they will or they should, I'm saying now the potential to make a pass-through system is there.

Also, I imagine that if someone is dumb enough to not follow the directions of installing anything on their 8 without the proper experience, they are most likely going to have problems and will be unhappy with their product. This is no ones fault by their own, I don't even see why you would bother bringing this issue up as a reason against researching an alternate approach to do something.

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. There is a potential for AP compatibility, and I would like to see that potential explored as a rotary enthusiast.

I was presenting the hurdles from a business owner's perspective more than anything else. I was not saying that it will never work, or that they shouldn't at least look into it. But to market full AP compatibility would potentially require a lot of development time and a followup service (looking over people's fuel trims etc) like what MM offers, or possibly outsourcing to MM or another AP vendor. That might work great, or it might not. Who am I to say, I don't have enough information.

All the service required for AP compatibility is a tough route to go down if you are not set up to do it, if it's not part of your business model. You risk running yourself ragged servicing existing customers having AP problems instead of developing new products or working on cars in the shop. And you can't say "oh well I'll have to charge you x fee to look at your AP logs and see if your tune is fine" to cover the costs, because people will probably raise hell and say "I already gave you x dollars and you won't even support your product!!" Or if something goes wrong you spend a lot of time defending your shop against internet rumors. I know the owners of one of local tuner shops in town and he has these types of problems all the time. And how could Esmeril calculate the revenue potential from AP compatibility? "Gauging interest" threads are not dependable enough.

You could argue that if people want to make the higher power output of the Esmeril kit, they'll just get whatever they have to get to make it work anyway. Like I said, I would love to see Esmeril do it for the benefit of the community. Yet if they look at all the factors and start planning a couple years down the line, it may not be the best choice for the financial health of their shop. AP Compatibility would only pay off if the development time is short, the technical issues are in fact minor, and customers wouldn't need much unprofitable followup service.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. There is a potential for AP compatibility, and I would like to see that potential explored as a rotary enthusiast.

I was presenting the hurdles from a business owner's perspective more than anything else. I was not saying that it will never work, or that they shouldn't at least look into it. But to market full AP compatibility would potentially require a lot of development time and a followup service (looking over people's fuel trims etc) like what MM offers, or possibly outsourcing to MM or another AP vendor. That might work great, or it might not. Who am I to say, I don't have enough information.

All the service required for AP compatibility is a tough route to go down if you are not set up to do it, if it's not part of your business model. You risk running yourself ragged servicing existing customers having AP problems instead of developing new products or working on cars in the shop. And you can't say "oh well I'll have to charge you x fee to look at your AP logs and see if your tune is fine" to cover the costs, because people will probably raise hell and say "I already gave you x dollars and you won't even support your product!!" Or if something goes wrong you spend a lot of time defending your shop against internet rumors. I know the owners of one of local tuner shops in town and he has these types of problems all the time. And how could Esmeril calculate the revenue potential from AP compatibility? "Gauging interest" threads are not dependable enough.

You could argue that if people want to make the higher power output of the Esmeril kit, they'll just get whatever they have to get to make it work anyway. Like I said, I would love to see Esmeril do it for the benefit of the community. Yet if they look at all the factors and start planning a couple years down the line, it may not be the best choice for the financial health of their shop. AP Compatibility would only pay off if the development time is short, the technical issues are in fact minor, and customers wouldn't need much unprofitable followup service.

I see where you are coming from now and I agree.

I think that this post is very valuable information for everyone who is into buying Esmeril Racing turbo kit ...
We better take some steps forward, so the name and price of the new turbo is? :)

I think that this post is very valuable information for everyone who is into buying Esmeril Racing turbo kit ...
We better take some steps forward, so the name and price of the new turbo is? :)

I had already specified it would be a Precision Turbo, Size/Type is being figured out as we speak.

Best regards,

Chris

Dear Forum:

At the risk of being bashed for asking a question (as it wouldn't be the first time, "search danielson search") sometimes it is easier to ask my specific question and get a targeted answer, so here goes:

I have a '04 6-Speed 8 with roughly 70k on her. It has a Greddy SP2 exhaust, K&N (Factory replacement) Air filter, Redline fluids (tranny & diff), and a really bad ass sticker :) (good for 5+ hp) I just recently upgraded the ignition system with new plugs, 10mm wires, and 4 factory replacement coils. She runs strong and hard. I realize that if/when I do any FI installs, especially the Esmeril kit, which is what I want, I will need to install their ignition upgrade as well. I have been reading about the 414hp car, watched the clip, came twice, and now finally posting this question :). I realize my car has relatively high miles for such a major upgrade; however, it is running strong as can be. Now, I do not desire to have a 1.3 engine output over 400 horses! It is absolutely AWESOME that it CAN be done; however, I would feel as though I would be playing with fire at this juncture to even attempt to get there "safely." With that being said; however, would 350-375 be out of the question to accomplish safely? I have installed a turbo kit before on my old 98 civic, but did not get the gains I was expecting because it didn't come with all the bells & whistles like fuel system and EMS, etc.. The Esmeril kit sounds 100% complete, minus an EMS. I have read that the majority of owners seem to prefer the COBB programmer to simply reprogram and use your existing computer, which sounds much simpler.

Sorry to keep rambling, but I guess my question boils down to this: If I had, say, "roughly" $5-7k to spend on a turbo setup (TOTAL, including tuning, EMS (if needed), etc) could I purchase the Esmeril kit and "relatively safely" achieve 350-375 HP on my daily driver?

Any advice related to this would be greatly appreciated!

It scares me to hear people talk about how "brittle" the factory Apex's are, so just the thought of FI makes me shiver.. lol. I came from the Buick Grand National turbo days where you could bang the shit outta that 3.8 and it would still run low 13's lol :) Good 'ole family sedan that was the Corvette killer! "Good 'ole days"

Thanks again,

Matt

mmm cant wait untill mine arrives :eyetwitch

Dear Forum:

At the risk of being bashed for asking a question (as it wouldn't be the first time, "search danielson search") sometimes it is easier to ask my specific question and get a targeted answer, so here goes:

I have a '04 6-Speed 8 with roughly 70k on her. It has a Greddy SP2 exhaust, K&N (Factory replacement) Air filter, Redline fluids (tranny & diff), and a really bad ass sticker :) (good for 5+ hp) I just recently upgraded the ignition system with new plugs, 10mm wires, and 4 factory replacement coils. She runs strong and hard. I realize that if/when I do any FI installs, especially the Esmeril kit, which is what I want, I will need to install their ignition upgrade as well. I have been reading about the 414hp car, watched the clip, came twice, and now finally posting this question :). I realize my car has relatively high miles for such a major upgrade; however, it is running strong as can be. Now, I do not desire to have a 1.3 engine output over 400 horses! It is absolutely AWESOME that it CAN be done; however, I would feel as though I would be playing with fire at this juncture to even attempt to get there "safely." With that being said; however, would 350-375 be out of the question to accomplish safely? I have installed a turbo kit before on my old 98 civic, but did not get the gains I was expecting because it didn't come with all the bells & whistles like fuel system and EMS, etc.. The Esmeril kit sounds 100% complete, minus an EMS. I have read that the majority of owners seem to prefer the COBB programmer to simply reprogram and use your existing computer, which sounds much simpler.

Sorry to keep rambling, but I guess my question boils down to this: If I had, say, "roughly" $5-7k to spend on a turbo setup (TOTAL, including tuning, EMS (if needed), etc) could I purchase the Esmeril kit and "relatively safely" achieve 350-375 HP on my daily driver?

Any advice related to this would be greatly appreciated!

It scares me to hear people talk about how "brittle" the factory Apex's are, so just the thought of FI makes me shiver.. lol. I came from the Buick Grand National turbo days where you could bang the shit outta that 3.8 and it would still run low 13's lol :) Good 'ole family sedan that was the Corvette killer! "Good 'ole days"

Thanks again,

Matt

You may get mixed reviews on the actual turbo that comes with the Esmeril kit, because its not a name brand turbo. But I think if you are able to make it run with the AP and use some a water/meth kit you should be able to get 350whp and get some reliability. Remember with going FI you are always risking bringing down the life of the engine. But its not to say that there arent FI 8's out there that are going 10k+ miles on them. Although if I were gonna buy the Esmeril kit, I would go with a smaller turbo for better spool time if I was going with a top mount. So to answer your question yes it would be possible to get 350whp on a daily driver.

Thanks for the info! I know there must be several things that must be done in conjunction with the kit, such as colder plugs, tuning, etc.. I really don't want to have to add the water/meth kit if at all possible, and if that is the case (required) to reach that kind of HP, perhaps I could settle for 325-350? I think my goal is to get the Esmeril kit (hope the Turbo holds up), get their ignition upgrade, change the plugs to the required colder plugs, get the COBB tuning device and probably take it somewhere and have it professionally tuned since the apex's appear to be so "brittle" I don't want to blow her up, rather run rich than blow it up. Ya know.

Thanks again,

Matt

Thanks for the info! I know there must be several things that must be done in conjunction with the kit, such as colder plugs, tuning, etc.. I really don't want to have to add the water/meth kit if at all possible, and if that is the case (required) to reach that kind of HP, perhaps I could settle for 325-350? I think my goal is to get the Esmeril kit (hope the Turbo holds up), get their ignition upgrade, change the plugs to the required colder plugs, get the COBB tuning device and probably take it somewhere and have it professionally tuned since the apex's appear to be so "brittle" I don't want to blow her up, rather run rich than blow it up. Ya know.

Thanks again,

Matt

For 350whp, all you will need is our kit and a good, full exhaust. Any of the 3" ones available will do the job. The kit includes everything you will need except for engine management and we can source that for you.

For 360whp and under we just keep the stock spark plugs and although we offer a colder option we don't recommend these until you upgrade your ignition with our ignition upgrade.

Also, going FI isn't going to make your engine wear out faster. Think about it, reasons for the engine to wear out faster are higher than normal rpm, or more sustained high rpm operation. FI does neither of these, in fact FI will probably keep you from having to rev the engine to redline as much because you will have way more power through out the powerband and you will not need to wring it out to pass someone on the highway for example. You will just step on the car without down shifting and make your pass without any drama. Your apex seals will not slide across the housing any faster because of FI, neither will your side seals or engine bearings so the usual speculation that going FI will wear your engine faster is a fallacy. Your engine will wear out faster because you are always at 9krpm than because you have a turbo or not.
Where FI can make your engine last less is if you detonate/pre-ignite and cause catastrophic failure which has nothing to do with engine wear. This happens due to lack of proper fuel for the boost you are running or too much ignition advance at a given point. Our kit includes the necessary fuel so if tuned properly that shouldn't be an issue. And we will flash a base map on your Int-X that has the timing map already preset so you will not have to touch it so as long as you stay with premium gas you will not have issues.


Best regards,

Chirs

Chris,

I was hoping you would catch this thread, as you seem to be the turbo 8 guru!

Thank you for all your valuable info.

I do have the Greddy Sp2 exhaust, cat-back of course. I will consider a cat-delete; however, in Atlanta, GA, you have to pass emissions. ASS HOLES :) Perhaps I can pass, get my tag, then change it lol. What about o2 sensors? CEL Lights? (I HATE CEL LIGHTS) lol. And, your kit, right out of the box, if I live in GA, which summers are in the 90's and winters vary between 30-50 degrees, would the pre-installed/configured setup work without any "professional tuning" perhaps? If it needs it, I will get it done, plain & simple, because I don't want to destroy my engine. BUT, i'm sure that would be an extra, rather large expense. Do you know of anyone in the southeast that could help with this for a reasonable cost?

I would LOVE to run 350 hp all day, everyday on my car.

Thanks,

Matt

As you read this thread, you see, that you should do only with the Esmeril Racing turbo kit, ER ignition upgrade and better clutch ... ER tested this for every day use, so it should work ...

This makes another question, what is ER recomended clutch to use with turbo kit???

I am using the Okada coils... so i hope they work well when the turbo goes on.

Better clutch? hmm.. Because of the miles on my car or because of the HP increase? I was under the impression that most of the FI cars on this forum say their stock clutch/gearbox was sufficient, if you didn't go around burning out at every light?

Am I mistaken?

Thanks,

Matt

Better clutch? hmm.. Because of the miles on my car or because of the HP increase? I was under the impression that most of the FI cars on this forum say their stock clutch/gearbox was sufficient, if you didn't go around burning out at every light?

Am I mistaken?

Thanks,

Matt

The clutch is more of a safety than a necessity and it has a lot to do with how you drive. I drove the stock clutch to 350whp levels without issues. I babied it though. Don't expect the stock clutch to handle 350whp at the dragstrip because when you do the burnout and it heats up and then you let it out in the hole shot it will slip if it grips, it might grip down the line but it might just go blank and slip the whole way. On the street, the stock one is fine if you don't abuse it.

Chris

def encouraging news we def need better quality FI options

The clutch is more of a safety than a necessity and it has a lot to do with how you drive. I drove the stock clutch to 350whp levels without issues. I babied it though. Don't expect the stock clutch to handle 350whp at the dragstrip because when you do the burnout and it heats up and then you let it out in the hole shot it will slip if it grips, it might grip down the line but it might just go blank and slip the whole way. On the street, the stock one is fine if you don't abuse it.

Chris

So what clutch do you suggest is good for street use and occasional track/drag use when over 350whp? Also since you have been over the 350whp have you had to upgrade any part of the transmission. Or at what power level do you think it would be an issue?

If Chris doesn't mind I can help with the clutch guidance. If I am intruding, I will delete my post and refrain further.

If Chris doesn't mind I can help with the clutch guidance. If I am intruding, I will delete my post and refrain further.

Feel free to make suggestions, you probably have way more experience than me with RX-8 clutches. I just went straight for the OS twin disk(probably overkill) when the stock one started slipping so I have little experience for "in between" clutches.

What do you suggest/prefer?

Best regards,

Chris

Feel free to make suggestions, you probably have way more experience than me with RX-8 clutches. I just went straight for the OS twin disk(probably overkill) when the stock one started slipping so I have little experience for "in between" clutches.

What do you suggest/prefer?

Best regards,

Chris

Thank you for your hospitality, Chris. I have hands-on experience with the Exedy, ACT, and SPEC lines of clutches with phone conversations regarding design philosophies with the actual owners (not the tech line guys) of many other clutch manufacturers. My comments shall not be construed as to be an endorsement of any particular brand/type of clutch nor shall I cite prices as I am not trying to sell anything here.

I do find myself concerned when people guide themselves to clutch "overkill" as the driveability that the RX-8 was designed around is quickly destroyed.

You and I agree that the factory clutch is pretty robust and I tend to think it engages nice and smooth. Even now that mine is nearing 80K miles and the friction zone is becoming vague, when I hammer it I still get rubber going into third gear (and that is with a LOT of nitrous use, as well). I tell people the factory Exedy clutch is good to about 325-350 rwhp and 200-220 lb./ft. at the flywheel.

The next step "up" from the factory clutch is generally the Exedy Stage 1 clutch. Although many people think the next step up is the Exedy Stage 2, it is actually the "MazdaSpeed" clutch. Then comes the Stage 2 version.

For 99% of those 8s driven on the street, a full-face disc is really the better choice as they engage smoother and don't beat up the flywheel friction surface as quickly as mutli-puck or exotic materials discs.

Let us not forget the never-ending issue of weak clutch pedal brackets, too.

Shall I continue?

Shall I continue?

Definitely yes :)

And if its possilbe, be more specific, something like a small list of clutches that will work nice with the kit is wellcome...
The main meaning of my question was like: exactly what types of cluth to use with turbo kit that everything will work just fine so you can forget about clutch :)

What is the highest amount of torque this particular turbo kit develops?

What is the highest amount of torque this particular turbo kit develops?

How much do you want? ;)....just kidding.

Normally our standard kit will get to 400whp with about 290-310wtq depending on the tuning and the ignition. For 340-360whp you will see wtq figures around 260.

My set up has measured up to 370-375wtq so far. If you calculate drivetrain losses of about 17% you can have an idea of what the tq is at the engine.

Hope this helps...I am interested in knowing also, I get lots of questions about clutches and if you have something that you know works I wouldn't mind pointing them in your direction.

Best regards,

Chris

Having glanced through this particular thread, it seems the topics are several but all related to how other things integrate with your kit here. I was thinking that clutch-talk may veer off-topic but it seems like we are really discussing the questions people have regarding ancillary issues and parts. If that is the case, cool.

Most performance clutches for the RX-8 will handle 300+ lb./ft. of torque at the flywheel and, just out of my own preference, I don't use percentages when thinking about driveline losses. The OEMs use percentages as a target when they are developing a new vehicle platform but, once that target is attained the percentage is moot (just my opinion). As such, I typically use 40 h.p. as a driveline loss figure for RX-8s with factory flywheels and 25 h.p. loss when using 9-10 lb. flywheels. SpeedSource, from what I have heard/read, uses 33 h.p. as a driveline-loss figure but I am not sure if they are were using a factory flywheel in that particular case or not. This is NOT to imply that a 9-10 lb. flywheel will result in a 15 h.p. gain at the rear wheels. It is only to say that I use these numbers as a vague way of predicting power numbers one way or the other. Ask Jedi54 about the accuracy of my predictions at these dyno meets we do.;)

Anyway, Exedy is sometime vague about the specific torque levels their clutches will handle but they do express the clamping force of their pressure plates.

ACT will mention the torque-holding capacity of their various pressure plates.

SPEC also mentions the torque-holding capacity.

Clutch discs are not generally chosen for their torque-holding capacity because they are actually dealing with heat-containment. As an example, Indy cars built using the Honda powertrain actually use off-the-shelf Honda discs. They can do this because their chassis only weigh, what, 1,500-1,700 lbs. or so? (I have a friend who works for Ilmor and they build engines for Indy, Champ, Nascar, and Off-Shore racing teams and we discussed all this. He knows what goes on and I tell him why, from a business perspective. Nice to have friends all over the place, eh?;))

I also just found out, when I was shipping some Exedy stuff internationally, that Exedy must be watching this forum because they are now shipping their clutch kits with the same release bearing BHR adds to our clutch kits.

I will start to whittle it down to specifics in a few.........

Exedy has a couple different pressure plates for their standard diaphragm-type clutches, the "A" and "AHD". The "A" has a clamping force of 1,395 lbs. and the "AHD" is 1,455 lbs. These two pressure plates are used in their "10803" and "10902/10952" (Cerametallic) applications. I can only assume that the factory clutch has a clamping force in the low 1,300-range. Confused yet? :lol2:

If I am allowed to move forward with my assumptions, we see torque-holding capacities for the Exedy stuff roughly in these ranges;

Organic disc kits;
1) Factory clutch, #MZK1002 or #MZK1006, 230-240 lb./ft.
2) Stage 1, #10803A, 260-270 lb./ft.
3) "MazdaSpeed", #10803AHD, 290-300 lb./ft.

The Cerametallic applications have rather harsh engagement and they tend to chatter in street applications. Remember, discs deal with heat (slippage during takeoff) and, although ceramic-type discs will handle more heat, street applications do not demand this level of heat-containment.

Ceramic disc kits;
1) #10902A, "Thin" disc, same pressure plate as the 10803A.
2) #10952A, "Thick" disc, same pressure plate as the 10803A.
3) #10902AHD, "Thin" disc, same pressure plate as the 10803AHD.
4) #10952AHD, "Thick" disc, same pressure plate as the 10803AHD.

See the pattern and are you thoroughly confused yet?

Very nice, can you advice me something from the ACT, I don't know why, but I prefer the brand...

ACT Stuff

Since we have Exedy's ratings as a basis, and ACT uses them as their own starting point, we can then take a look at ACT's own website for guidance.
Taking a look at this link we see the following pressure plates, street discs, and race discs (left-click on the bar graphs in the upper right corner);

http://www.advancedclutch.com/products/clutchkits.aspx

Pressure plates (percentages are ACT's estimations for comparitive purposes and values are at the flywheel)
1) SP, "Sport", 20-40% torque-holding capacity over stock. (280 lb./ft., +/-)
2) HD, "Heavy Duty", 40-60% over stock. (330-376 lb./ft.)
3) XT, "Xtreme Duty", 80-120% over stock. (423-517 lb./ft.)
4) XX, "MaXX Xtreme", 120%+ over stock. (517+)

Street Discs
1) OO, Stock Street. This one is a stock replacement, full organic.
2) MM, Modified Street. This one I am not sure which materials are in it and ACT isn't clear about it. My guess is that it may have a little Kevlar material to help with heat a bit.
3) SS, Performance Street. This disc contains copper strands as well as whatever is in the MM disc and is actually a pretty sweet disc.

Race Discs
1) R4, 4-pad.
2) R6, 6-pad.
3) G4, 4-pad, sprung.
4) G6, 6-pad, sprung.

All these "Race" discs have cerametallic or other exotic materials and are NOT suggested for any street driving.

By looking at the link above we see up to 20 different pressure plate/disc combinations offered by ACT but not all combos are available for all platforms and for 99.9% of us on this forum our needs can be covered by these following combos (ZM8 is the prefix designation for the RX8 application)

(Model-Pressure plate/Disc)
ZM8-HDMM, 40-60% over stock.
ZM8-HDSS, 40-60% over stock, better heat handling.

The ONLY thing I do not like about the ACT kits is that they include the lousy Koyo release bearing and many of us know how poorly those bearings handle even factory pressure plates. IIRC, they DO include the pilot seal, which is a plus, as well as the pilot bearing and alignment tool. Exedy does not include the pilot seal but they DO include the HD release bearing that BHR has suggested as well as the alignment tool. Otherwise, some people prefer the quicker engagement the ACT units offer versus the factory clutch.

Charles knows more than a thing or two about clutches thats why his products are in my car!

Here is how its coming along. Only a few hoses need to be routed for the new FPR location, finish the battery relocation to the trunk and complete the vacuum manifold install. After that its just a little wiring for the air/water intercooler stuff and a new oil spout that I fabricated must be installed. We are thinking it should run in 2-3 weeks with our busy schedule....

Please excuse the blurry/dark pics...I will take better ones soon.

Best regards,

Chris

looks really nice. want to swap cars? :lol:

an rx8 that actually does need a torque arm. lol. good stuff.

Wow this is by far one of the best turbo kit I have seen! Well done and cant wait to see the completed project

Wow thats nice work! How much is this going to increase the price from the first kit and what are you going to call it stage 2?

Wow thats nice work! How much is this going to increase the price from the first kit and what are you going to call it stage 2?

This is a one-off build. We do not plan on selling this new setup. I am sure a few products will find their way into production that were used in this setup but plans are to offer upgrades for the standard kit, not to make a new one.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Chris

Speaking of upgrades, is there another Wastegate that we can purchase somewhere on hte market that would be more of a low profile one and work on an already installed kit?

This is a one-off build. We do not plan on selling this new setup. I am sure a few products will find their way into production that were used in this setup but plans are to offer upgrades for the standard kit, not to make a new one.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Chris

I've NEVER been so teased! Well not without a dollar in my hand and a ------ in my lap! So what your saying Chris is that if we want a set up like that you could do it for us:fingersx::fingersx::fingersx:

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/Luckycat_2009/IMG_0233.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/Luckycat_2009/IMG_0234.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/Luckycat_2009/IMG_0235.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/Luckycat_2009/IMG_0224.jpg

The wastegate is now hidden above the cross member. Dump pipe is 1/2" or so below the wastegate.

The kit runs very smooth and sound really nice. I have been driven it slow out of boost so far for break in period.

mmm got my kit today, heres a pic of a few of the goodies.

Cant wait to get it installed in a couple months.

Chris I know that you are now offering two turbos for your kit. One thats name brand and the other a secret... What would you say are the difference between the two and pros, and cons? Also is the only EMU we could/should use the no longer being made interX?

So I'm confused with the wastegate status.....if I ordered a kit today, would it come with the 38mm no-clearance-issues unit or the original 60mm one that people have whacked on speed bumps?

mazdaparts.com says "NEW FOR 2009 LOW PROFILE TIAL WASTEGATE! (extra clearance for lowered rides and/or large speed bumps)" - does this mean that current kits have been revamped to solve the clearance issue or that the 38mm kit is only compatible with 2009 models?

Thanks for the clarification.

So I'm confused with the wastegate status.....if I ordered a kit today, would it come with the 38mm no-clearance-issues unit or the original 60mm one that people have whacked on speed bumps?

mazdaparts.com says "NEW FOR 2009 LOW PROFILE TIAL WASTEGATE! (extra clearance for lowered rides and/or large speed bumps)" - does this mean that current kits have been revamped to solve the clearance issue or that the 38mm kit is only compatible with 2009 models?

Thanks for the clarification.

All kits now come with the 38mm low profile WG which solves the clearance issues. The New for 2009 means its new for Esmeril Racing in 2009 not that its for 2009 vehicles.

Hope this clears that up.

Best regards,

Chris

That's exactly what I needed to know...thanks!

Luckycat can we see some dyno numbers ?? :)

All kits now come with the 38mm low profile WG which solves the clearance issues. The New for 2009 means its new for Esmeril Racing in 2009 not that its for 2009 vehicles.

Hope this clears that up.

Best regards,

Chris

Chris, have you seen the Vibrant low-pro wastegate mufflers?

Chris, have you seen the Vibrant low-pro wastegate mufflers?

No I have not, haven't even heard of them...hmmmm...I will search for them, I might want one for my car...sounds interesting...

Thanks.

Chris

I can get them for you but, as silly as it may seem, Vibrant doesn't have them listed on their website.

Here is a webpage from SCW but I would be happy to do a cost+shipping arrangement for Esmeril if you might be interested in trying one.

They are reminiscent of the Supertrapp muffler;

http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com/vibrant/vibrant_exhaust_fabrication_wastegate_muffler/g-54376.aspx

I can get them for you but, as silly as it may seem, Vibrant doesn't have them listed on their website.

Here is a webpage from SCW but I would be happy to do a cost+shipping arrangement for Esmeril if you might be interested in trying one.

They are reminiscent of the Supertrapp muffler;

http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com/vibrant/vibrant_exhaust_fabrication_wastegate_muffler/g-54376.aspx

Cool. How good do they work? Have you seen one installed. I am interested.

Thanks.

Chris

I would have to take a closer look in Vibrant's catalog (which I don't have in my hands right now) but it appears that their wastegate muffler has stackable discs, like the Supertrapp mufflers do, and you can tune the amount of exhaust sound attenuation by adding or removing discs as desired. I haven't seen one installed but if you want to PM me your wastegate outlet dimensions I may be able to guide you to one that is worth trying and we can give it a shot. :dunno:

Chris polish that intake up man!! :mdrmed: lol

I really like the Idea of Esmeril and BHR working together. This can mean great things for the RX8 Community.

Speaking of, is there any reason why this wouldn't work on an 09? Other than EMS

I really like the Idea of Esmeril and BHR working together. This can mean great things for the RX8 Community.

Speaking of, is there any reason why this wouldn't work on an 09? Other than EMS

We are always willing to work with anyone for the greater good :), I am sure BHR is the same way. Two heads are always better than one.

The kit should bolt on to the car with no issues...and yes the EMS is the only hurdle...but it should be very similar to an RX-7 with 4 injectors only...

We will work on something for this ;)

Chris

I am not so sure I would call it "working together" as much as just lending a hand on some available stuff that might be a nice addition to their turbo kit. The guys at Esmeril have done a lot of hard work on the parts/products they offer and I don't want BHR to get any unjustified credit for something that takes all of 5 minutes for me to do. :dunno:

No Credit, just respect. To the both of you.

That's fair enough. Thanks, Man. :)

Chris still hasn't PM'd me with the wastegate outlet info, though. :lol2:

Hmm, i try to have an answer from mazdaparts to know if it's possible to buy and import a turbo kit + apex seals from esmeril racing in Europe, but nobody answers to my mail. Anyone here could help me ? :(

Hmm, i try to have an answer from mazdaparts to know if it's possible to buy and import a turbo kit + apex seals from esmeril racing in Europe, but nobody answers to my mail. Anyone here could help me ? :(

I forwarded your message to Mazdaparts.com. They are working on getting back to you with an estimate. I will remind him to call you today.

We do export, we just had a kit sent to Sweden and have had a few to Greece.

Thanks.

Chris

I forwarded your message to Mazdaparts.com. They are working on getting back to you with an estimate. I will remind him to call you today.

We do export, we just had a kit sent to Sweden and have had a few to Greece.

Thanks.

Chris

I believe that you should start trying to point down a list of the possible tuners here in europe. There are just a few rotary tuners here capable of working on rx7s, you can imagine the level of knowledge about the rx8 :crying:
Especially since your turbo requires a blow-through maf tuning etc they may encounter some serious problems.
Making it a draw-through would enable the user to buy an access-port and have the "lol-mighty" :rofl: MazdaManiac do their tune with good results for instance.
I know that it is hard to redesign stuff and finding good tuners if you don't personally know them but i see that you're putting some serious effort to offering a good product this time!

@Leandrys: are you sure that you need apex seals too? if you're not rebuilding the engine for other reasons and you're not intending to do that soon you might be able to wait in my opinion!


Giorgio

I'll have to, my garantee is over, my 8 has made 60000 KM including lots of track days and daily high RPM, i'd rather make it before the turbo's installation.

I believe that you should start trying to point down a list of the possible tuners here in europe. There are just a few rotary tuners here capable of working on rx7s, you can imagine the level of knowledge about the rx8 :crying:
Especially since your turbo requires a blow-through maf tuning etc they may encounter some serious problems.
Making it a draw-through would enable the user to buy an access-port and have the "lol-mighty" :rofl: MazdaManiac do their tune with good results for instance.
I know that it is hard to redesign stuff and finding good tuners if you don't personally know them but i see that you're putting some serious effort to offering a good product this time!

@Leandrys: are you sure that you need apex seals too? if you're not rebuilding the engine for other reasons and you're not intending to do that soon you might be able to wait in my opinion!


Giorgio

I see your point. The problem is that certifying a tuner in Europe will likely require that I fly out the for a considerable amount of time and train someone to install the kit and be able to fine tune...that is if I am going to do it correctly.

About the MAF, a blow through is really not a possibility. Our turbo intake pipe is 4" the stock MAF pipe is 3.5...not to mention that there is about 4-6" of pipe between the filter and the turbo inlet and this would cause major airflow turbulence issues.

I know the Accesport if a great tool but I will always take standalone over any OEM computer any day...its just more positive control...nothing will "think" for you which is dangerous when running an engine at the edge of its capabilities...just my opinion...and the Accesport is great...not everyone is looking to have 3 times the mass air flow of the stock engine.

Chris

I'll have to, my garantee is over, my 8 has made 60000 KM including lots of track days and daily high RPM, i'd rather make it before the turbo's installation.
Just do a compression test and if it's fine you save a lot of money. 60.000km with some track time are not an issue if you did the proper maintenance with regular oil changes ;)

I see your point. The problem is that certifying a tuner in Europe will likely require that I fly out the for a considerable amount of time and train someone to install the kit and be able to fine tune...that is if I am going to do it correctly.

About the MAF, a blow through is really not a possibility. Our turbo intake pipe is 4" the stock MAF pipe is 3.5...not to mention that there is about 4-6" of pipe between the filter and the turbo inlet and this would cause major airflow turbulence issues.

I know the Accesport if a great tool but I will always take standalone over any OEM computer any day...its just more positive control...nothing will "think" for you which is dangerous when running an engine at the edge of its capabilities...just my opinion...and the Accesport is great...not everyone is looking to have 3 times the mass air flow of the stock engine.

Chris


I understand your point but i prefer a direct flasher to a piggy back. If we talk about stand alones then yes, screw that OEM ecu!
I know of a couple of rotary tuners that might be able to install kits in Italy and Sweden.
The italian one won't need mounting instructions though but some tuning advice, mostly regarding spark split etc.
I can tell you who they are via PM and give their addresses if you wish.

As for the ecu.. you might want to build a harness for a motec in order to keep our car's basic functions via the stock pcm and the engine management with the motec ;) it can be done. long stuff but can be done!

Just do a compression test and if it's fine you save a lot of money. 60.000km with some track time are not an issue if you did the proper maintenance with regular oil changes ;)




I understand your point but i prefer a direct flasher to a piggy back. If we talk about stand alones then yes, screw that OEM ecu!
I know of a couple of rotary tuners that might be able to install kits in Italy and Sweden.
The italian one won't need mounting instructions though but some tuning advice, mostly regarding spark split etc.
I can tell you who they are via PM and give their addresses if you wish.

As for the ecu.. you might want to build a harness for a motec in order to keep our car's basic functions via the stock pcm and the engine management with the motec ;) it can be done. long stuff but can be done!

I am not talking piggyback, I am talking standalone. The Int-X is a stand alone unit not a piggy back. It is made to plug into the OEM harness for installation ease but its a standalone Microtech unit on the inside. The OEM computer is there just for dsc/tcs, power steering and Drive by wire throttle control, nothing more. It is there for the basic functions but does not touch the engine parameters.

Chris

Off topic, but what needs to be changed from the stock kit to upgrade to run e85? jsut larger injectors? would the 255 pump be large enough?

Off topic, but what needs to be changed from the stock kit to upgrade to run e85? jsut larger injectors? would the 255 pump be large enough?

Haha, no and no...:P

You do need larger injectors...but the pump is not enough....and the fuel rails are not enough...nor is the fuel feed line from the tank to the front. The system will have to be turned into a return system. The stock fuel like is used as a return and a new line is sent forward. If for under 380whp a single Bosch -044 fuel pump will do the trick. The injectors will have to be modified/changed. The Yellow secondaries need to have the cap tip removed, this turn them into 720cc injectors(it is good to have them flow matched...KGparts can do this for you for cheap), and they are used in the primary location. The 1000cc ones included in the kit are kept and another pair of 1000cc ones are installed alonside them in the secondary fuel rail. This is for 380whp and under....for over...two pumps are used....and a pair of 1680cc injectors are added to the mix.

An external FPR is used and KG parts fuel rails are also used for either conversion.

E-85 takes more volume....on gas we are already pushing the stock fuel line etc...

Once its done though...it is sooo worth it...more power for the same boost...lower EGT's by about 5-600deg, cooler running engine, no detonation....cheaper gas....

I love it... :)

Chris

I noticed that you had it listed on the products section of esmerils site but still not able to purchase. You have a price on a kit to go e85? There are E85 stations all over hell here and its actually hard to find 92 over 91 anymore and no 93 at all around. Not looking for crazy power but was looking for something a little less prone to detonation.

Is it possible to have a dual tune. As in 1 Tune for E85, and another for 93 Oct without requiring a hardware change?

Obviously this would be for those times when you just cant reach an Ethanol Station.

Is it possible to have a dual tune. As in 1 Tune for E85, and another for 93 Oct without requiring a hardware change?

Obviously this would be for those times when you just cant reach an Ethanol Station.

If you have an Int-X yes...you can have up to 4 maps and it takes seconds to switch between them.

Chris

Chris I'm starting to love you :-)

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I wanted to know if you have noticed any cleaning properties regarding running Ethanol. I know there have been some great things said for Methanol and even Water Injection. Just wanted to know if Ethanol works out the same way and I know you have been in and out of your engine, so...?

The Yellow secondaries need to have the cap tip removed, this turn them into 720cc injectors(it is good to have them flow matched...KGparts can do this for you for cheap), and they are used in the primary location.


Wow. This is the first time I have ever heard this. I want to upgrade my P2's to 720cc injectors. Now I can turn my OEM injectors into 720cc versions?

SWEET!

Chris I'm starting to love you :-)

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I wanted to know if you have noticed any cleaning properties regarding running Ethanol. I know there have been some great things said for Methanol and even Water Injection. Just wanted to know if Ethanol works out the same way and I know you have been in and out of your engine, so...?

Thanks for the love man...I am engaged though so I doubt I'll be able to correspond...still...it is very appreciated :)..haha

About Ethanol...yes its great...the one thing is that if your car has lots of residue from running fossil fuels in tank, fuel lines etc...switching to Ethanol will clean those out and they will end up in your fuel filters. it is recommended that unless you are running one of our entirely new fuel kits which change everything short of the tank...that you remove your fuel filter after about 5k and clean the filter element....it will be packed with crap...after that nothing will accumulate.

I also opened a motor that had been running on e85 for over a year...and it looked pristine...the rotor faces were way clean compared to all the carbon you normally encounter in these engines and even the spark plugs are kept clean...the turbo housing, and exhaust tips also stay clean for the most part.

I like it!

Chris

Wow. This is the first time I have ever heard this. I want to upgrade my P2's to 720cc injectors. Now I can turn my OEM injectors into 720cc versions?

SWEET!

It is true. And it works great. This is what KG parts does to your injectors to make them flow more. They do it for cheap too so it will be worth it to send them to them instead of doing it yourself because they will flow match them and you will get two that flow within about 5% of each other which is pretty good.

All that's needed is a Dremel type tool with a cutting disk. Then you run it around the tiny laser weld that holds the cap tips(has 4 tiny holes) onto the injector tip and then you just pull it off and smooth the edge off to ensure nothing sharp is there. Now it will flow roughly 720cc. Its pretty simple.

Chris

Int-X can increase flow of OMP?

Int-X can increase flow of OMP?

No it cannot. Increasing the flow of the OMP is not needed though. You have the same components moving at the same speeds, why would you need more oil? On top of that, the components are running colder if you have a turbo because your afr's will be lower than stock so your EGT's will be lower too.

If you want to increase the OMP injection you will need an ECU reflash.

Chris

Chris, I've read into this Esmeril Turbo kit for some time to get details. However I have a few concerns based on my experience from my racing days. We used methanol for fuel which is known to corrode aluminum fittings say if someone wanted to use the A/N fittings. Is why we shut the fuel off while the car is running and let itself empty all the fuel off in the fuel lines dies off in a matter of seconds. It's not suggested to leave methanol for a long period of time present in these fittings. Usually each year during winter time I would spend cleaning out the fittings and other components made of aluminum for the fuel delivery to get the corrosion cleaned up.

Also methanol is a brother/sister to ethanol and is known for absorbing water. This means normal paper filter fuel filters are not a smart option to use ( I have yet to look into what filter the Rx8 uses for fuel) since it will deteriorate the paper and bonding materials..

These are just a few concerns. I know additives can be added to the fuel to help fight off the corrosion with the fittings but I'm interested to hear what your thoughts on this are.

Chris, I've read into this Esmeril Turbo kit for some time to get details. However I have a few concerns based on my experience from my racing days. We used methanol for fuel which is known to corrode aluminum fittings say if someone wanted to use the A/N fittings. Is why we shut the fuel off while the car is running and let itself empty all the fuel off in the fuel lines dies off in a matter of seconds. It's not suggested to leave methanol for a long period of time present in these fittings. Usually each year during winter time I would spend cleaning out the fittings and other components made of aluminum for the fuel delivery to get the corrosion cleaned up.

Also methanol is a brother/sister to ethanol which both have water composed in it. This means normal paper filter fuel filters are not a smart option to use ( I have yet to look into what filter the Rx8 uses for fuel) since it will absorb the water.

These are just a few concerns. I know additives can be added to the fuel to help fight off the corrosion with the A/N fittings but I'm interested to hear what your thoughts on this are.


I know methanol is corrosive to aluminum, it is a very strong solvent. Ethanol however and their origins are completely different, and so are their molecules (part of the reason you can drink ethanol and not methanol). Not to mention that E-85 has additives added to it along with 15% gas to allow to run in engines(lubricants and corrosion resistors).

It is true about the paper filters, that is why we recommend they get replaced within 5k miles of switching to E-85. The Ethanol in E-85 will tend to dissolve the adhesive used in many paper filters. We took all this into account when switching.

E-85 will not eat away at the fuel fittings or hose. It is not nearly as corrosive as Methanol, there is absolutely no comparison...the fact that they both end in "thanol" does not mean they are similar chemicals, it just means they are a type of alcohol that is all.

Best regards,

Chris

I know methanol is corrosive to aluminum, it is a very strong solvent. Ethanol however and their origins are completely different, and so are their molecules (part of the reason you can drink ethanol and not methanol). Not to mention that E-85 has additives added to it along with 15% gas to allow to run in engines(lubricants and corrosion resistors).

It is true about the paper filters, that is why we recommend they get replaced within 5k miles of switching to E-85. The Ethanol in E-85 will tend to dissolve the adhesive used in many paper filters. We took all this into account when switching.

E-85 will not eat away at the fuel fittings or hose. It is not nearly as corrosive as Methanol, there is absolutely no comparison...the fact that they both end in "thanol" does not mean they are similar chemicals, it just means they are a type of alcohol that is all.

Best regards,

Chris

Thanks for the clarification.

While I knew they weren't the same and didn't connote similarity because of the "thanol" they do have similar composition from what I've read and both have soluble and insoluble contaminants. Methonal indeed is the most corrosive of the two, ethanol itself can overtime corrode without proper maintenance I believe. I don't think it's adequate to say it cannot whatsoever corrode the fittings, but rather to say it does so minimally contrast to methanol. The fact is still does corrode is why they look to eliminating any magnesium, aluminum and natural rubber in fuel delivery for flexible fuel vehicles (FFV) for long term use.

Rather they suggest switching to stainless steel or more properly treated material per say if one wants to use aluminum then at least nickel plate (NiP) or anodize the fitting which must be done internally as well obviously. For rubber, neoprene, viton, etc should be used. I believe using some additives with the E85 fuel will help eliminate this concern if using it for a long period of time, but that's just my 2 cents.

You say to replace the filter within 5k of switching to E85. That's only initially, what about maintenance wise? If you're still using the same style filter I would think it will involve more replacements contrast to regular gas which is still quite low, but just bringing up a point to question.

Thanks for the clarification.

While I knew they weren't the same and didn't connote similarity because of the "thanol" they do have similar composition from what I've read and both have soluble and insoluble contaminants. Methonal indeed is the most corrosive of the two, ethanol itself can overtime corrode without proper maintenance I believe. I don't think it's adequate to say it cannot whatsoever corrode the fittings, but rather to say it does so minimally contrast to methanol. The fact is still does corrode is why they look to eliminating any magnesium, aluminum and natural rubber in fuel delivery for flexible fuel vehicles (FFV) for long term use.

Rather they suggest switching to stainless steel or more properly treated material per say if one wants to use aluminum then at least nickel plate (NiP) or anodize the fitting which must be done internally as well obviously. For rubber, neoprene, viton, etc should be used. I believe using some additives with the E85 fuel will help eliminate this concern if using it for a long period of time, but that's just my 2 cents.

You say to replace the filter within 5k of switching to E85. That's only initially, what about maintenance wise? If you're still using the same style filter I would think it will involve more replacements contrast to regular gas which is still quite low, but just bringing up a point to question.


I agree. The Ethanol used in cars however, already has many anti-corrosive additives so as not to hurt the internals of the engine which are still magnesium/aluminum based in many instances. And yes ethanol is still corrosive but what many people know is that pure gasoline is also corrosive (although much less) and without the additives that are in it the injection system would seize up as well. Maybe pure ethanol but I don't see lubricated ethanol that is mixed with gas eating away at the AN fittings in a fuel system, maybe over a period of 20 years it might eat away .0001" of material but nothing to worry about. In 20 years the fuel system will be failing for other reasons anyways like old rubber on hoses or fatigued components etc.

About the filter, once you run E-85 for 5k miles it will ahve cleaned your entire system. the residues it removes are from using fossil based fuel, ethanol has none of this so once it is cleaned out, there will be almost no residue so changing the filter regularly will not be needed, just regular maintenance like on a normal car (ie. change fuel filter at 100k or so). And when I say replace I mean to a metallic filter not a paper one. You leave the paper one for the first 3-5k to catch everything the E-85 cleans out of your system and then you replace it with a suitable metallic element and forget about it there after.

Chris

You leave the paper one for the first 3-5k to catch everything the E-85 cleans out of your system and then you replace it with a suitable metallic element and forget about it there after.
Chris

Ah, there we go. That was the answer I was looking for, just checking :)

No it cannot. Increasing the flow of the OMP is not needed though. You have the same components moving at the same speeds, why would you need more oil? On top of that, the components are running colder if you have a turbo because your afr's will be lower than stock so your EGT's will be lower too.

If you want to increase the OMP injection you will need an ECU reflash.

Chris

Interesting, I was under the impression that the tune on the INT-X would overwrite any flashing done. In that context it might be worth having both an Accessport for certain protocols, and the INT-X for your engine. Interesting.

Interesting, I was under the impression that the tune on the INT-X would overwrite any flashing done. In that context it might be worth having both an Accessport for certain protocols, and the INT-X for your engine. Interesting.

Exactly, together they would be great. The reason the Accesport would still work is because although the Microtech controls engine parameters, the OEM ECU still opens and closes the APV valves, controls the throttle body and also the OMP.

Chris

IIRC, MazdaManiac recently posted somewhere that the Cobb and factory MAF can deal with blow-through set-ups. How the factory MAF would accomodate the higher density incoming charge, I have no idea, but that is Jeff's domain.

IIRC, MazdaManiac recently posted somewhere that the Cobb and factory MAF can deal with blow-through set-ups. How the factory MAF would accomodate the higher density incoming charge, I have no idea, but that is Jeff's domain.

If this is true I am willing to experiment with the Cobb then...

It might prove more user friendly.

Chris

It still needs to be housed in a 3.5" ID Pipe, airflow needs to be laminar, and the maf gets peged at 500 grams/sec, which I am sure you are well over, Chris.

It still needs to be housed in a 3.5" ID Pipe, airflow needs to be laminar, and the maf gets peged at 500 grams/sec, which I am sure you are well over, Chris.

why not put it in a 4" pipe and tune to suit that ?
Not 100% but perhaps still better than MAP tuning .....

It could probably work....obviously your grams/sec will be read lower than usual, so that number would effectively be fluff.

I know we use the same Denso MAF element that STi's use, which are commonly run in a blow-thru setup.