July 7th, at approximately 1:15am Jay and I, as well as a riced out Golf driver were pulled over and charged with street racing. Circumstances surrounding the event are as below.

Going eastbound on Highway 7. Stopped at Swansea, speed clearly marked as 70KPH. We accelerated from a stoplight up to the limit. I was side-by-side with Jay in the left lane while the Golf was ahead of Jay. At no point did I pass Jay, and at no point did either of us change lanes. I did not redline and we accelerated to the speed limit. The cop then turns on his lights and waves all of us over. We were then told that we were being charged for street racing, and our cars were being towed.

- The cop did not radar us, as he explicitly said that he did not have us clocked.
- He said we squealed our tires but both Jay and I had traction control on. We also took a picture of our dashboards showing no DSC off light.
- The cop said he had a witness say that we had been flying down Highway 7. Jay and I had been careful to follow the speed limit, especially in the 50KPH zone.
- The cop did not take down a witness statement or any information.
- The cop is basing this on the fact that he "feels" we were street racing. It is all a matter of interpretation.
- The cop is inexperienced. Faded talked to him and he said that this is the first ever stop he made for street racing

Personally, I think that as Jay and I didn't exceed the speed limit, there is no case here. Our licences and cars are both gone for 7 days however, and if anyone wants to give some advice it would be much appreciated.

^ That totally sucks! Really sorry to hear about your troubles with this. Wish I had some advice for you but I don't know anything about the street racing law.

No case, just like you said. I wouldn't worry too much about it, get a lawyer and it'll be dismissed with the quickness.
Sucks you cant drive for 7 days though.

I suppose you know that he can do this or ticket you just for accelerating too fast right???

I wouldn't take this. Stir up some sh!t. Call his CO to complain, write to the newspapers and definitely get a lawyer. Getting the charges dropped would not be enough to satisfy me, this guy needs some discipline and you need some compensation for the inconvenience.

exhibition of speed.

where do you live? I assume it's not the US since you mentioned the speed in km/h.

holy shit this is terrible... what we now is WCS' signature display pic.
This is shocking.. isn't there a minimum $2000 fine you both have to pay too?

Part of it probably has to do with the fact you were doing this at 1:15 AM......the cop may be presuming that since it was "late" it was "street race hour"

Zaino master... they are from Ontario, Canada. We have a street racing law:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_070455_e.htm

if *suspected* of doing any of these under the police officer's discretion (I repeat, under his/her discretion, which means can be without solid evidence),
- 7 day license suspension
- 7 day car impound
- minimum $2000 fine

there is no law against how fast you get to the speed limit is there? Either way, no speeding or evidence to show what speed you were going.

squealing tires... did you leave rubber or plumes of smoke? doubt it... so there is no evidence of this either... so you can't get an "exibition" ticket or whatever.

as far as a ticket for street racing.... this can be tricky as its based on comparing performance between cars and blah blah blah, either timed or not... i cant remember the exact definition or if any speed needs to be broken.

BUT as far as a witness... this is kind of stupid because the cop has you all pulled over and all a witness has to do is say "umm yea those are the cars". And they can go to the station later to provide a written statement for court.

Go to court... might be worth splitting a lawyer fee between you and your friend.

What is the exact charge/fine amount on the ticket?

Ask for a different court date because this date conflicts a planned vacation or something... if your date is on a thursday, say a monday would work ... if its on a monday, say a friday. (Sometimes you wont have a choice on what the new date is) But try to do this several weeks before the actual date. But a few weeks after the incident.

Write a written letter to the court office asking for a copy of the evidence the prosecutor is submitting. Have it filed properly with the office. They must provide you with the evidence in a manner that you have time to prepare for the case. (this will include a copy of the officers ticket and his notes, and should also include a copy of the witness statement). Just call the number on the ticket and ask the clerk how you get this information, they should provide you with everything you need to know.

It may be good to play the stereotype card on having a yellow sports car and driving next to some stereotypical "street racer".

the lawyer might (and should) drill the officer on his experience with street racers and how he deemed you to be racing. blah blah blah

you might also be able to get information on what calls that officer responded to that night (or that week/month).. as perhaps it was a "slow night" and he was just looking for something.

Zaino master... they are from Ontario, Canada. We have a street racing law:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_070455_e.htm

if *suspected* of doing any of these under the police officer's discretion (I repeat, under his/her discretion, which means can be without solid evidence),
- 7 day license suspension
- 7 day car impound
- minimum $2000 fine

^^^^ and if that is the case any judge will side with the police.

To reverse a charge based on the police officers DISCRETION and JUDGEMENT would be a slap in the face to the local law enforcement......he would never hear the end of it.

To reverse the charge is akin to saying the police are inept.

Better get used to it......it is highly unlikely you will have any sort of victory in this matter.

As far as taking it to the press........the public will just think it was some punk kid complaining that he got caught, the papers will say "who cares?" and it may end up working against you in that if it were to become public, then the courts might show no mercy in order to show a public support of the police.

If you have a clean driving record (ie: ZERO speeding tickets) you might have a shot at leniency if you swallow your pride, state it was just aggressive driving and not street racing, plead for the mercy of the court.

^^ I disagree. From what you've said, the officer has no evidence. Officer discretion is not always correct. He can give you a ticket for this at his discretion, but that doesn't mean you get convicted at his discretion. This should get thrown out.

The "evidence" is the officers judgement .

if this gets thrown out in court, who pays for the tow truck fees and lost time?

The "evidence" is the officers judgement .

No, the evidence is what the officer produces to the court to uphold his judgment.

if this gets thrown out in court, who pays for the tow truck fees and lost time?

Fees you can sue for, lost time you can't in Canada. (as far as I know anyways, could be wrong)

If it looks like you were racing then you might be screwed. Cuz the cop can argue that you could have driven over the limit if he didn't stop you. And a race doesn't mean you have to drive over the speed limit.

As soon as he said he had a witness, Ed called BS, in front of him. He also clearly knew that I was upset at him. During the whole explanation process of what to do, he kept saying "I know you don't agree." What also bugs me is that he was like, I'm not trying to screw you guys, SO WHY PULL US OVER THAN?!?

Literally, he must have tailed us for less than 500 meters, since with 10 secs of the stop light, I see the lights behind me, at which time I see Ed pull into my lane. In my lane, was also the sterotypical rice car ahread of me. If this truly was a "street race" why did not stomp the throttle and try to get ahead and keep going, WHY DID THEY JUST STAY at the the SPEED LIMIT?!?

I am totally for the street racing law. But not this BS gray area law the cops are enforcing. Honestly, yes street racing kills people. Yes those tha street race should be punished. But clearly define what the street racing law is. Don't leave it to "interpretation" what is that really, your opinion. when did they let ppl in this democratic country ticket you for their opinions!?! To me really, I think the cops have way to much excessive power with this law. TOO MUCH.

50 over the limit, Yes, book them for street racing, casuse thats just excessive. You shouldnt be doing 120 on a road with a posted limit of 70. But seeing two cars that are just cruising with each other, and just because they are performance cars you believe they are street racing, thats just BS.

You all have seen how many regular joes are getting charged under this new street racing law, for simple matters. This street racing law needs to be REDEFINED, and NOW!!!!

And another bugger, really big BUGGER is the tow issue, and automatic suspension. You havent even been CONVICTED yet, and your car gets towed away and license suspended. WAY TO MUCH EXCESSIVE power to the Coppers now. TOO MUCH!!!

As a side note, when towing our cars, they towed mine from the back, and they obviosoly could see Ed's car is the same dame car as mine. Yet they started to tow, it from the front, saying it was too low in the back, fine, its too low, than get him a flat bed. As soon as we told them it was a rear wheel drive car, they were, shocked. And we asked them who takes responsibility for his car for any damages during the tow, tow guys looked at the cops, cops looked at them, ahh the classic he says, she says, BS. And get this the ricers car was too low, and they couldnt get his car on regular tow, or a flatbed, so what did they do. A tow truck came by with a passenger and he DROVE THE GOLF to the LOT?!?

Like Ed mentioned, faded had learnt that this was the coppers first ever street rac pull. I guess he wanted to look like the highlight for the station. As soon as he pulled us in, he called dispatch, at which time another 5 cruisers came in. Don't these guys have better things to do with our taxes then, herd around us like the local watering hole, WAIT, I guess they dont, since essentially we're a water hole just spewing cash. What does this gray area street race law provide? Excessive charhges through a new joint partnership program with the coppers and the tow guys, BUSINESS OF THE YEAR AWARD ANYONE!?!

Sorry for the long vent, but there is a lot more, A LOT MORE TO BE POSTED!!!

No, the evidence is what the officer produces to the court to uphold his judgment.

If someone was to go to a police officer and shout "I am going to kill every ********** on I-35 I am going to blow up each and every driver up!" the officer would arrest him for making terrorist threats, or some similar charge.

In that case...........what evidence would he produce to the court?

What you are arguing is that if there is no evidence to prove it, like a witness, or video, or whatever, the case gets dropped?

The testimony of an officer sworn to uphold the law is all that is needed, especially when a law is on the books that specifically indicates the interpretation of an offense is at his discretion. Thinking otherwise is really just wishfull thinking.

IMHO, you should both talk to a lawyer specializing in this sort of thing. From what I've read about the 'new' Ontario laws, they are taking this VERY seriously. A guilty plea (ie, paying the fine) could have serious consequences when you go to renew your insurance, or look for a job that requires a driving record check (even volunteering for a kids team).

Go see a lawyer and find out what your options are. It should be free for the first consult. Note that you may only have a short time (like within the 7 days) to contest the 'street racing' charge.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't 'man up' if you did do something wrong. Wrong and guilty are often two different things.

Just my 2 cents.

This is BS... I'm never gonna be driving side by side any one of us anymore going anywhere (just in case it might look like we're racing)

If this is a new law........expect them to try to send a message to street racers everywhere.

Hopefully you won't be the one they excessively target in order to send a message, but letting you off with a handslap also sends the wrong message.

This could be daylight, a Sunday morning, and it would look like, the three cars were just driving, or keeping the traffic. If anyone is to be charged for street racing it should be the golf, since he was much further ahead of us. For the cop to justify that we were racing since he had to catch up to us by breaking the limit, well ya, thats OBVIOUS. Not mentioned was that he was coming up the perpendicular street intersecting the light that we started from. As this light the golf launched himself off, and me and ed just used mid throttle to go thru first to third gear, making sure not to pull ahead of the golf or past 70. We were both cruising back, since two roads after, he would head to the south, me to the north. We obviously know that the street we were on is a hot spot, plus street racing, what do I have to prove to a golf, or any car. I didnt buy this car for straight line, and if I wanted to use that throttle of ours, I would hit the track, where I could use wot, than the half throttle we used on that street that day.

As soon as he pulled us in, he said we were being charged for street racing, and told to shut our cars down. Fair enough.

Here come the claims.

1. Tires squeeling, BS, since both of us kept Traction on, and DSC off. We both took pics of our dash, as soon as he mentioned this so called claim.

2. Our engines were revving. Okay what does this mean. Isnt the basis of a automotive. Or did he mean reving in place, which would mean he wasa at the stoplihght, which Im pretty sure Golfer ahead would have seen and not laucnhed himself thinking he was in the biggest cock fight of his life with us. Or did he mean it was loud. Well hmm, let see, both cars are performace sports car, both with intakes and catbacks, and of course, the ROTARY. Pretty sure he doesnt know what a rotary means, and what it produces.

Look, I support a street racing law, but make it black and white, not this stupid gray area. Remove the excessive powers given to the cops, its jus a field day for him when they need to hit that quota, cant give out tickets, well, himm, hey that 85 year old changed that lane, just too quick, you know what that means partner, STUNT DRIVING, HELL YEAH!!! And remove the ability to do an automatic suspension and towing, and if your going to impound the car, and suspend our licenses, then you pay the dame fine, and prove that we were guilt and take it from us.

Do a quick search, do you realize how well this street racing law is doing in courts. Most caess are being thrown out of the court, cause of the lack of evidence, like I said, when the hell did this democative country, let people try and charge you on your opionion, Footmna you took that on ramp without slowing, down, I dont care you have a performance car, and what it makes too much noise, Im charging you with Stunt Driving.

Those that did the 50 over, which I support, recived lower offence charges since they just pled guilty. This law is just a waste of time and ache on the drivers. Make it black and white, and it`ll give us peace, and you guys, the enforcement respect.

the law has been in effective since last year, the cops have been tossing out charges in excessive of 5000. Plus 66 percent if not more are getting thrown out. Yes, swore to uphold the law, but just cause you came up a perpendicular street, and heard exhaust noise, especially the rotary sound, and you had to gun your super charged cruiser to catch up with us, in what was less than 300 m, doesnt warrant street race charge. What did he see, or hear. He heard engine rev, he claims to have seen tire squeal.

I asked him, begged, please give me a ticket for speeding, no kidding here, cause I wanted to see what he had on me. Ya thats right, I asked him to please give me a ticket, or Ed, since were both cruising.

Side note, Footman, the new law, lets the 8ers cruise, thats not an issues, according to the new law, posted on the ministry, if one of us got pulled during the RPM curise, they wouldnt charge us under stunt, contest, or street, or if they did it wouldnt hold up to well, since the new law as an exception for cars that are enjoying a scenic cruise. Everyone, together, WTF!!!!

Like I said this new law uttermost retarded, make it black and white, not a freaking swirl of crap.

Exceptions

4. (1) Despite section 2, “race” and “contest” do not include,

(a) a rally, navigational rally or similar event that is conducted,

(i) under the supervision of the Canadian Association of Rally Sport,

(ii) under the supervision of a club or association approved in writing by the Ministry, or

(iii) with the written approval of the road authority or road authorities having jurisdiction over the highway or highways used;

(b) motor vehicle owners engaged in a tour, scenic drive, treasure hunt or other similar motoring event in which the participants drive responsibly and in a manner that indicates an overall intention to comply with the provisions of the Act; or

(c) an event held on a closed course with the written approval of the road authority having jurisdiction over the highway, including any event lawfully using any of the trademarks “CART”, “Formula One”, “Indy”, “IndyCar”, “IRL” or “NASCAR”. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 4 (1).

This is BS... I'm never gonna be driving side by side any one of us anymore going anywhere (just in case it might look like we're racing)

Well careful next time when your dodging those corollas, you might get charged for stunt driving.

All this law is doing, is funding the new estates for tow truck drivers, putting coppers on pedastools, keeping traffic specialists well funded, especially now with X-Copper gone, and funding the campaign of some of these dbag politicians. Its sad to say I voted for the Liberal party, there has been so much complaint, lots of press material, and no referendum of this new law. Awesome job Ottawa!!!

Like I told many so far, if nothing looks to be working soon, I will set up an all forum meet at the Big Hill for a freaking protest. I didnt come to this dame country to get my Charter of Rights taken away after lawfully abiding and learning much about this nation. I dont pay my taxes to be treated this way. They should have better things do with their time then do this.

If there isnt any change to this dame law, I might as well sell the 8, and get myself a Yaris or Fit. Or do I then become an accessory to street racing, since I`m slowly traffic down, keeping the cops away from the real racers

And most of you know that I am still in school, I dont even work full time, I just have the 8 cause I got it in from the states for a lot chpeaer second hand. AT the time of purchase, it was a car with 2 year plus another year of powertrain, or a car with no warranty locally. Obviously you know what I chose. I acutally use my car to work, work for a psych lab, I actually need it to get my gear from and too. Also to get to Sick Kids. So to lay a charge and impound my car, without convicting me, puts me in a bind. And basically this is what this law is doing as a side effect, people, whatever age that are being unjustly charged under this law that are still students, on student wages, what do you think that means for them. Its either pay up and get your car out, and not go to school. Or sell the car, and forfeit certain opportunities to become a contributing member of this society. Guess Canada doesnt really care a dipshit about the future contributing members of its society. And what also aggrates me, is as soon as I got out of the 8, the copper asks me first if I stole the car, even though just before that I told him its my dad, like WTF. Then he asks me if the other one. And then gives me a smirk, when I tell him the car is under my dads name, bet your dads not gonna like that. Why do you think its under my dads name. Do you think education is free in this country, do you think Im gonna get any aid for my education, if I register a car under my name. Do you think that the car is essential to propel my future to where I want it. No, why, because your opinion makes you think that I might have stole it, when I said it was my dad`s car, and that I`m out for a joy ride at night, what a great joy ride it was sticking to the speed limit. Once again your opionion triumps all, you know what this reminds of, or compare to, the leet talking smack punks on voip. Yes thats right, I think your at that level with those kids.

It really bugs me thats cops can have this much excessive power on their opnion. If you ask me, their pretty much our politicians. So next time you see a cruiser, make sure you leave a path, cause their goes our politicains

Also consult servives at this time are useles, till our court date, at which we got info on what the cops believes he saw. Then we would need to get a consult service. So now that I have funded my the tow trucks estates, and raised pedastool of my local politician, now I get to fund my consulting companygs new wing. WOO HOOO!!!!

So the judges asks me, what do you do for living son. Well I was in school, but im only going for a semster, since I had to fund a few things, care to guess what they are

K I know you're pissed, but just remember one thing, and use this in your defense if you need to: You CANNOT be convicted of something SOLELY on the JUDGMENT of an officer. This would make our country a dictatorship, and that would be a violation of your rights.

11. Any person charged with an offence has the right
d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;

This means that the officer's judgment is NOT THE BE-ALL, END-ALL. He can be (and often is) wrong.

Now stop being a post-whore!

I haven't read everything as Jay has left some lengthy posts but I wanted to chime in.
This is what happens when you give the Police to much power.
The police can arbitrarily decide what is or isn't breaking the law with a penalty that is has a huge impact reaching deep in to the victims life and pocket book. Yes I said victim, as that is what we all are in the Police State of Ontario.
Do I blame the Police sure but it's the f'd up Liberals that made it this way. I vote and it wasn't for those crazy fukkers.

I am so sad to say that I am part of that party, well, call me a traitor, but I am done supporting them. They didnt get my vote last time, and they wont this time. This propelled along with the former police chief. I thougt their hear to help the people, not oppress them. What the hell is the year. I feel like I`m back in the motherland, thats Germany for those that dont know, and a couple decades back. If you ask me, I might as well give that salute as the cruisers go by.

I also did not vote Liberals.

Sorry for the post whoring, like I said I am venting, guess I am making up for lack of posts I have had over the weeks. Hope yo make it out to MOTM this year Wulf, but yes I knw what my rights are, but where are those rights, where is my right to fair trial when they decide to tow and suspend my license, and make me pay for all that, a month in advance of the trial, seriously WTF. Thats what I wish they would change from this gray law of ours, well one factor. Other of course being the stupid opionion.

Cops should get back to stopping real crimes, and leave the speed spotting to the cameras. Thats a way better use of time and our taxes.

The cruisers should strip their protect and serve decal and stick on what the decpticon had from the Transformers movie.

I wish I could make it to MOTM, unfortunately I have about 5 weeks left 'till my wedding and I can't make a trip that far... no time :(

Good Luck and that was really funny by Jedi, where go you live not in the USA, and he posts in the Candian forum.

when this does go to court ( if it does ) it will depend a lot on the judge. Unfortunately, the law does state that the officer can charge you if they suspect anything or if in their discretion they feel you were doing something that violates the law. This is a really shity situation guys....so shitty that i was talking to my friend who is an RCMP officer about it. The problem is 2 fold, there are not written statements from witnesses backing you up and the officer used his /her discretion to make the judgement call.....wheather they were new or not, first stop or not, they have the the sworn in right to make these judgements. The next problem is going to come in when you are in court and they have 2 guys who ( I believe you guys by the way...just to clarify ) " look " like things were not legal and an officer who is going to have to completely state that he/she was wrong in their intial decision which WILL NOT happen. My buddy said that in most cases from previous years these cases have been thrown out due to lack of evidence, hearsay, officer not showing up, etc, etc. Unfortunately with the new law, he has said that he is mandated to show up to cases where this law has been violated and to " crack down " on this sort of thing.....he warned me to tell you that the best possible action it to get a lawyer and not to get your hopes up....he said expect the worst and hope for something less severe......I am sorry guys, I wish you the best and hope if works out in your favor.

looking forward to the actual date when we get his disclosure statement, it would help it figuring out what is happening with us.

talked to consultation places today, most suggest a united front vs the officer, and the other one suggested me and ed vs the golf guy vs the officer

the officer said this would be our last contact with him, from here now, it would be us vs the prosecutor, who is using the info on his statement I guess.

I am just banking on what recent events have showed regarding cases and this new law. Also that some changes come soon, since our court date wont be til late this year if not next Im gonna try my best and spearhead a change on this useless gray area law.

one of big clause with this law is the lack or respect of our charter rights, specfically due process, they shouldnt be allowed to tow ur car and impound and suspend at ur expense without a conviction.

imangine this law in a europena country, or italy, where a majority of thecars of the road are performance, will street racing become the norm handed out there, pathetic

if you ask me, they should have smart chips on every road, forcing ur engine to not be able to get past that speed limit, and everyone get in a smart car, thats when we can be finally safe

I feel sorry for you man. I understand your anger, and I do understand that this is purely a product of politician trying to get more votes by "solving" an issue that was "unresolvable" fundamentally.

If you need us Toronto rx8 for help or cruise to demonstrate, I am all up for it. I only speed in turns now so the poo poo cannot even see it.

The exception to that law is funny...so if we organize a cruise for "scenic" ride we are ok? How about a scenic ride at 150km/h?

Can we use the officer's inexperience to go against him? Can we take photos of scene showing no tire marks on the road? What can we do to help?

/pissed off!

Thief, Pros,

Sorry to hear about your problems with the pigs. I guess we all need to granny our cars when there is more then one sports car around.

I think someone needs to challenge this stupid law in the courts. I believe it's illegal along with the law that was passed to allow for photo-radar. How can you charge someone for speeding when you don't know who was behind the wheel? How can you give the cops the power to suspend a license without having to prove any wrong doing?

In the end, I blame M.A.D.D and the like for lobbying the government to make stupid-ass laws. We would have a more reasonable 115 kph 400 series limit if not for the stupid lobby groups like M.A.D.D.

This is officially becoming a side project of mine now. Sunday will tell how much needs to be payed to get the car out of the impound lot, like I said, I`m on a student budget, didnt get to work full time this summer, and dipping into the savings is a no no, so there could be a modded silver 8 on sale soon, cause I just cant deal with these oppressive modern army. If their goal is to punish and oppress they got that going very well for them right now. I will go to take pics tomorrow of the stop light, whats ironical is the fact that after everything was done and said, the same cop that pulled us and his other cruiser buddy both ripped it out of them, their tires squealing, wish I had a video option on the phone.

In the end, I blame M.A.D.D and the like for lobbying the government to make stupid-ass laws. We would have a more reasonable 115 kph 400 series limit if not for the stupid lobby groups like M.A.D.D.

Oh give me a break.

M.A.D.D. deals primarily with drinking and driving.

What is "stupid ass" about making the roads safer from needless alcohol related deaths?

Honestly, if you have a beef with the Canadien speed limit, at least make a sensible arguement, don't go the easy route and make a cheap shot at M.A.D.D. just because they have public visibility.

Agree on M.A.D.D. Drink and Drive is bad. Period.

But this street racing law is still stupid ass.

Take a read at this:
http://blog.legalaction.ca/does-ontario%E2%80%99s-new-street-racing-law-violate-the-charter-of-rights/

I pasted some stuff from some letters I wrote shortly after the new law took place. I wrote my MP, MPP, auto scribes (like Kenzie) and various papers, and actually got two published! I never voted Liberal..and never will.

You guys have to fight this bullshit.

With over 300 cars impounded to date since the recent introduction of the
new "anti-aggressive driving" law, that's over $600,000 in fines alone in Premier McGuinty's bottomless pockets with no end in site. One might think
that's great, all in the name of safer roads right? Think again.
Fact is, there is no proof that aggressive driving has been an escalating
problem in Ontario. In fact, the available statistics clearly indicate that
Ontario continues to have the safest roads in Canada and is among the
safest in North America. This trend is despite seeing the number of
licensed drivers on Ontario's roads increase by more than 22% in the past
10 years.
So this naturally begs the question, why implement these new laws that are
by far the most severe in Canada, in the safest province in Canada? Where's
the connection?
Allow me suggest that there isn't one. In the end, this is nothing but a
case of a government trying to create the illusion of being tough on some
sort of new and reckless street racing subculture. However, in the real
world, the facts paint a different picture. A recent study by the Virginia
Tech Transportation Institute concluded that in 80 per cent of crashes, the
driver was distracted in the three seconds prior to the accident. As a
motorcyclist, this is no surprise. I lost count of how many times some
motorist, usually in an oversized SUV, has crept into my lane by a driver
who's was either applying make-up, or eating, or reading, or talking on
their cell-phone, or any number of things. This is nothing new, experts
everywhere have always agreed that the vast majority of road "accidents"
are preventable.
But why attack the real root of our traffic problems when it so much more
exiting to sensationalize the issue? There's been no shortage of media
coverage on the alleged street racing incident from this past weekend that
tragically claimed two innocent lives, yet many more people have since died
on our roads due to other types of preventable accidents. Where is the
coverage of those? Fact is, on an average day on Ontario roads, over 2
people still die and over 200 are seriously injured. What is being done
about the more common causes of problems on our roads?
We can start by outlawing cell phone use in Ontario as many countries have.
We can have police come out of their radar traps and start patrolling the
streets and stopping everyday drivers who aren't focused on the task at
hand. There are so many things that we can do, but the problem is many of
these solutions wouldn't be popular. It's far easier to point the finger at
alleged speed crazed motorcyclists and car enthusiasts. And I bet that
we're seeing just the tip of the iceberg, safety zealots are already
talking about putting speed limiters on all vehicles, and calls for photo
radar are coming back as well.
In the meantime, we have to deal with new laws that nearly turns Ontario
into a police state, giving police the discretion that they always wished
they had to charge at will. "Officer discretion is obviously something
that's fundamental to our system of justice," says OPP Chief Supt. Bill
Grodzinski. I understand that, but I also understand that it is unrealistic
to think that all police officers conduct themselves without bias,
prejudice or poor judgment at all times. Therefore, why grant them such
unprecedented powers to seize licenses or vehicles? Last time I checked,
our justice system is also based on a court system that is assigned the
task of administrating justice in an objective and fair manner. Has this
been replaced?
Being a bit of a gear head, I've often heard stories from fellow
enthusiasts of exuberant police officers who harass them without proper
cause. My instinct was always to write off such claims as half-truths, even
though I've had my share of experiences of being pulled over for no good
reason other then "routine" checks. However, a recent incident with one of
Peel's finest has made me a believer, as I thought I was either going to be
assaulted or arrested for having the nerve to shake my head at an officer
for blocking traffic unnecessarily. The existing formal complaints process
for such matters left me exasperated; instead I was informed by this
officer's Staff Sergeant that he is actually a "model" constable. Well,
even though I'm a "model" citizen; never unemployed, always pay my taxes,
don't have a criminal record, never even had a demerit point.... next time
I won't even bother complaining.
This past Thanksgiving weekend, I've already witnessed this law in
practice. I noticed a new radar trap on one of the nearby lonely country
roads where the speed inexplicably reduces to 50km/h from 80km/h. I bet the
85th percentile speed is near 100km/h on that road, so I wonder how many of
the 300+ vehicles they impounded were caught in this manner instead of the
sensational stories we always hear in the media. Or worse, can you imagine
loosing your license, your vehicle and paying out thousands of dollars in
costs for squealing your tires around a corner, or leaning off a motorcycle
seat? I must have missed the cataclysmic tire squealing death and
dismemberment stories that necessitated this law's severity. All I know is
that I'm skipping the next group ride, lest it be misconstrued as racing at
an officer's discretion!

wesome man, im gonna start making a thread for a cruise out to the big hill for a formal protest. gonna start making invites and fact sheets to be handed out at motm this year, hopefully i can get mazdas, and possibly all other car forums for a massive protest on their front lawn. This new law needs to be fixed, I hate these cops that are abusing it left, right and centre.

just wanted to drop a line quickly and say how shitty that must be..

and how shitty the law is right now..

the police in matters like these nowadays really do become the judge, jury, and executioner all in one go...

just sad.

Definately did not vote for the Liberals last time around and certainly will not be this time lol

Original STAR article
Hey look at me! I'm a street racer! (http://www.wheels.ca/Columnists/article/248098)

Street racing story 'irresponsible' (http://www.wheels.ca/article/250631)

Blog: I'm a Street Racer (http://thestar.blogs.com/kenzie/2008/05/im-a-street-rac.html)

Readers weigh in on street racing law (http://wheels.ca/reviews/article/254338)

Distracting Miss Daisy - Why stop signs and speed limits endanger Americans (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/traffic)

McGuinty and gang are on a witch-hunt for any street racers. Very knee-jerk reaction. I believe there was a news clip that showed impounded cars of racers will be crushed for scrap metal.
I remembered Mississauga was the worst. Lots of young graduate cops with a power trips. Am glad I don't live there no more.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/456244
This dumbass deserves it but apparently, slamming on your brakes is also street racing :lol2:

"If a person jams their brakes on intentionally with someone behind them, with the intention of having someone behind them breaking or slowing down, it does fall under the racing legislation," said Sgt. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer.

I don't know about you but I press my brakes intentionally with someone behind me all the time with the intention that they slow down cuz there's traffic up ahead. I want them to slow down too or else they're gonna rear end me...

Honestly Ontario is becoming a police state.....that new law with drivers driving high what happens if someone is tired and they get pulled over and cops take him in for blood testing and find traces of marijuana but the dude lit up a joint maybe few days ago before driving are they still going to charge dude with DUI? Why bother having judges just make the cops judges then as well

Oh give me a break.

M.A.D.D. deals primarily with drinking and driving.

What is "stupid ass" about making the roads safer from needless alcohol related deaths?

Honestly, if you have a beef with the Canadien speed limit, at least make a sensible arguement, don't go the easy route and make a cheap shot at M.A.D.D. just because they have public visibility.

M.A.D.D has been not been limiting them selves to drunk-driving related thing. Do some research and you'll see. They have turned into a general bleeding-heart organization for road safety.

They are just another lobby group and IMHO almost all lobby groups are too blinded by they own causes to think about what is best for the general population.

I am not disputing that drunk-drivers need to be punished, but the laws (in Ontario at least) have been very effective and now M.A.D.D seems to be branching out. I guess they don't know what else to do with them selves (and the reams of donations).

I don't know if M.A.D.D has any involvement in the Ontario street racing laws (I would be very surprised if they didn't), but I did read in the paper years ago that they we dead set against a proposal to increase the speed limits.

^ Lately I am seeing lots of "Mothers Against <insert theme>" organizations poopping up. Just recently I saw one called the Mothers Against Power Poles having a rally. No it's not against the local stripper club either. :eyetwitch

I've been saying it all along, the OPP don't give a flying f-ck about road safety. Those of us who lived in Toronto during the '90s under Benito Fantino's regime have seen his handiwork. This man is a politician masquerading as a police chief. His only goal is to consolidate power within his organization in order to further his own political gain.

To the OP, get a good lawyer and beat this off. You want to get the charges reduced to an exhibition of speed type of charge but no more, which is still BS but at least it's easier to swallow. You'd be surprised by how sympathetic some judges are these days, provided that you put forth a credible defense (with a real lawyer or paralegal, not by yourself). The prosecution might also fold once they see which officer wrote the ticket. There is nothing a prosecutor hate more than an over-zealous rookie cop who get caught lying under cross-examination.

And to the guy from Texas who has been shooting off your mouth, you're a jackass.

And to the guy from Texas who has been shooting off your mouth, you're a jackass.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Please point out one instance where I am shooting off my mouth.

The topic starter asked for some advice, I obliged with some information as to what he will most likely face when he faces the judge, and a judicial system that is usually stacked against the common man.

Oh, but I'm sorry, if it will appease you: "Oh dUde thAt sUx! StUpiD cOmmIe pigZ I hoPe u make dat &%$#@ piG cOp loose hiz job yo!"

Take everyone's advice and get yourself a lawyer. I am not trying to plug my own services but I can give you the names of a few reputable lawyers if you are so inclined. I am helping two 7club members with street racing charges so I am not in a position to volunteer my services beyond that at this time. Good luck and try not to worry about it.

^ wow, fiat X1/9 with a rotary... that's interesting.... :Eyecrazy:
sorry for off topic post, couldn't help myself

Ontario's very own "Texas Ranger". Boo-yeah! :lol2:

http://www.roadsafe.ca/images/cam.jpg

I feel so safe on the road.

best option is approach a lawyer ....decide if u can win over the case or not and sue him for false accusation ...and keep us updated ...
im pretty sure u guyz stand a good chance in winning this case....

In my opinion the real thing to do will be go after compensation after the charges are dropped. From the stats I have seen your chances for getting the charges dropped are quite good, but there has been no recourse to the police or government. I would file a claim after for loss of income, all costs involved in hiring the lawyer, getting your car back etc. Then there is the "mental anguish and embarassment suffered" by having them take your car infont of all the people driving by and having to tell co workers etc! Maybe if it started to cost the government for writing laying false charges things might change?!

Maybe if it started to cost the government for writing laying false charges things might change?!

Errr.... no. Ontario just think of ways to pass the cost to everyone in the province via the many flavours of taxes. :eyetwitch

Damn Delhi... I've noticed many of your replies (overall in the forum, not just this thread) tend to carry a dark cynical tone to things :) :) :) great source of entertainment!

any updates?

Just gathering info, talking to known cops. I'm writing a few letters, gonna contact that writer from the Wheels section, the article you posted Kafka. Cars are getting picked up on Monday, just wondering if they flooded our engines, dinged the body.

Also looking at the steps that need to betaken forr a protest, like if we need permits. Gonna set up a rally in August at Queens Park. Hell hath no fury like a Brown Man scourned!!!

hey it just occurred to me.
You betta not get a brothers rims crushed YO!
;)

count me in if you wanna protest. we cannot just keep our silence.

UPDATE:

So we got the call today to come and pick up the disclosure packages. So I decided to swing by Newmarket on my way to the cottage.

Can't read shit on the copies of the summons notes section. However there is a typed section, so here it is.

" The cop observed three vechiles stopped at Hwy 7 and Kennedy Rd he then saw the same three vehicles take off from the traffic light @ a high rate of speed travelling eastbound. The cop was on a general patrol driving westbound on hwy 7.

He saw the light turn green and the vehicles accerlerate quickly. He notes that the VW took off so quickly that his tires squealed.

The vehicles appeared to be racing as they took off together. The engines of the vehicles were racing loudly. The vehicles sped up to approximately 70 km/h after only travelling 150 m. When the vehicles passed the cop they all slowed down quickly.

Police made a u turn and followed the vehicles. Traffic atop was performed, be charges lid."

So that's the end of that statement.

So we have proof that we did gwtto the speed limit and did not pass it. Basically it's n issue of how much throttle can be applied, and of course the rotary being a screamer.

The vehicles appeared to be racing as they took off together.

This is the part where I hate most...this is the part where the new law gave power to the police on deciding if they're "racing" or not.

Thats why, never ever drive in 3 lanes...always go in single lane...and tell the office you are doing a scenic cruise / table dance trip / from a funeral etc...

UPDATE:
The vehicles sped up to approximately 70 km/h after only travelling 150 m. When the vehicles passed the cop they all slowed down quickly.



I tried this today in my rental Dodge Charger out here in Edmonton. Getting to 70KM/H in only 150M is not hard at all. Using GPS to calculate the distance, I could routinely get the charger up to 70KM/H in that distance with moderate to heavy throttle application. We are talking a 4000lbs car here with only 250HP. I did not at any time feel as if I were racing. Hell, minivans were accelarating just as fast beside me, and I don't think they would consider that a race.

Before I go on, I'd like to make it clear that I do believe that anyone traveling 50km/h or hell even 40 km/h over the speed limit should be booked + license suspended. There's no reason at all to be traveling at those speeds. I have a home in the Bayview Hills area (Leslie and 16th Avenue) and can't stand all the rice rockets I encounter when I'm back in Toronto on Highway 7 and around the rice rocket meeting plaza at Bayview and 16th. In this situation however, the so called "street racing law" is utter bullshit.


EDITED: Going to use a more sensible equation to make this more accurate:

Here are some figures based on a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan SE

Here are some figures for a 2000 Dogde Caravan SE

40mph in 5.6 seconds

50 mph in 8.4 seconds

so the average rate of acceleration based on laws of motion:

v = u + at
where u=0 since we are starting from stop
a=v/t

at 40mph * 1.6 = 64km/h * 1h/3600 seconds * 1000m/1km = 17.7m/s / 5.6 seconds = 3.17 m/s^2 <----- rate of acceleration to 40mph
at 50mph * 1.6 = 80km/h * 1h/3600 seconds * 1000m/1km = 22.22m/s / 8.4 seconds = 2.64 m/s^2 <----- rate of acceleration to 50mph

Just to be conservative lets assume that the vehicle is accelerating at a the lower rate of acceleration from 0km/h all the way up to 80km/h. So we'll use a rate of acceleration of 2.64m/s^s.

now using the equation

v^2 = u^2 + 2as
where
v is final velocity
u is initial velocity
a is acceleration
s is distance

we can solve for distance

v=80km/h or 22.2m/s
u=0
a=2.64m/s^s

s = v^2/2a
s = 22.2^2/2*2.64
s = 93m

So that means at the van can reach around 80km/h in 93meters


You guys should have no problem winning this case.

phyics ftw...

Police claimed facts:
d = 150 m
v2 (final velocity) = 70 km/h = 19.44 m/s
v1 (initial velocity) = 0 km/h (from a stand stilll)

From kinematic equations:
V2^2 = V1^2 + 2(a)(d), where a is acceleration in m/s^2
plugging in numbers, you get a = 1.26 m/s^2

Thus, police claimed average acceleration rate was: 1.26 m/s^2

This 1.26 represents your average acceleration. It's average because you're not going to be constantly accelerating at that rate from a standstill due to power delivery differences at different rpms, and time lag from shifting 1 - 2 at the very minimum (if you were racing).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reputated professional test drivers from Car & Driver magazine:
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/2870/38592/version/4/file/0706_fourkind_powertrain_ss.pdf

2007 Mazda RX-8 which has a powertrain unchanged from 2004.
1/4 Mile test which represents maximum power take offs from a stand still.
d = 400m
t = 15 s
v2 = 93 mph = 41.33 m/s

Using same equation, and plugging into formula.
Average acceleration is 2.14 m/s^2

So this proves for certain Jay and Eddie were nowhere near using their maximum power of their vehicle

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using 2.14 m/s^2 acceleration as the benchmark for maximum power average acceleration as done by professional driver, plugging that into the same kinematic equation to prove "what would have been the speed"

a = 2.14 m/s^2
d = 150 m
v1 = 0 (stand still)
v2 = what we are solving for

v2 = sqrt [2(a)(d)] = 25.33 m/s = 91.21 km/h

Conclusion: Had Jay and Eddie been plowing down that shit, ripping it up at maximum power, in 150m, he would have been already doing 91.21 km/h. They were at least 23% slower than that. Therefore, they were not street racing!



Someone's gotta check my math and logic! Does math/science hold up in court?

WTF!!! u guys are intense!!

Yeah Footman it does work.

Just one note. Using the quarter mile figure to extrapolate the average maximum acceleration of the rx-8 isn't the best way to go about things. The rate of acceleration starts to decrease at higher speeds. If prospectjtaz had actually reached the rx-8 quatermile trapping speed then this would work. But since he never reached it his overall average acceleration would have been much higher between 0 to 70km/h at wide open throttle in comparison to average acceleration at wide open throttle in a quarter mile. Get what i'm saying?

An acceleration rate of 1.25m/s^2 isn't spectacular at all. I'm sure almost any car on the road can achieve that. Prospectjtaz you need to actually speed up a bit. You're really slowing traffic down when you take 150meters to get to 70km/h :)

When the time comes and if you guys need an engineer to sign off on this physics stuff let me know and I will.

Hippak, you a P.Eng already? I need 2 more years!

Awesome, I was going through the kinematics myself, that 150 M displacement doesn't make sense.

physics for the matafakin win!

P.S: Obviously I am not a physics / eng major lol

Oh wait I got a Math degree from Waterloo LOL WTF

I can prove that the cop is wrong and it will be a NP complete question for him to prove that I am wrong ...

Good point Hippak, you are right about that. Maybe it's best in the case to just stop after we've proven the two different average acceleration rates and then say that those are so far off from each other already that it can't even be close to being considered street racing.

I was trying to use that value to work backwards to further substantiate what would have been an approximate speed if they were gunning it at the point they reach 150m.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It could also be said that the C&D time was most likely performed with a clutch drop at some high rpm which would result in some wheelspin (tire chirping/slippage). The cop's statement clearly said that there was no wheel-spin/chirp from either of Jay/Eddie's cars.

Hippak, we can use the C&D chart database review of the 2004 Mazda RX-8 performance data.
That chart has info kinda like the route you took to prove the caravan. it's got data for 0 - 40, 0 - 50mph, etc...

Using an average acceleration value from one of those limits would be a lot closer to what Jay/Eddie has around the 70km/h range. Furthermore, those values were made by documented professional data, and were done with maximum power. It should be good evidence.

How does a judge take into understanding scientific data if it's brought up in court? He/she isn't actually gonna sit there and let you explain the math right?

Actually Footman, you can cross examine the cop and then asked if he is confirmed what he said, then present this evidence and get it signed by any P.Eng as evidence of the physics and the flaw in his logic.

This will really piss that dumb hot-shot probably highschool drop out cop right there.

And yes, I am being hateful...I respect police when they are doing their duties with honar and brains...not when they are on power trip.

In the States, you could probably sue him for false arrest and abuse of power.

You guys see Fantino's new ride?

http://mtesluk.googlepages.com/Solo0101.jpg

WOW, so that's where all the ticket money went.

Seriously? There is no logical explaination for the OPP to have a Maserati

If that was his personal car, I'd key it. It's probably exclusively his to drive on and off shift but still owned by the OPP so they would foot the bill. Meaning 'we' would foot the bill.

im pissed off just reading about this.