It's finally here. What are your guys thoughts?

http://www.obdscan.net/RX8_PGM.htm

The APEX RX8 Programmer does not include tuning and mapping tools, nor do we have a "tuned" flash file at this time.

Without software to modify the ECU maps, it sounds like it will be a while before it's useful to us. But the price is right :)

Sounds interesting - but like a hot falling knife, I wouldn't dream of touching it - I love my (working) car too much!

I know my own limits - Good luck to those who dare tread in there...

At this stage it seems pretty useless

I've emailed Dan and asked for details.

I'm sure there are a select few on this forum who would love to mess around with this....

Its not useless because it keeps people who are out of warranty from having to go to the dealer to get the most current flash.

The price is most definitely right and the possibilities are almost endless.

The tuning software is the most important part though. It could be tedious and painful, or easy to use. I've heard people talking about 900+ maps in the stock ECU, and different maps for different gears. It sounds like no trivial task to generate a usable flash unless you're modifying small parts of the map to add or remove fuel and keeping it otherwise stock.

I got this reply from Dan:

The programmer can flash the RX8 computer with the latest Mazda flash, but
it can also allow a person who is getting into tuning to flash a modified
load in the RX8 computer with out causing a checksum error, without our
checksum fix a modified load would not run.
What you would do is download the ECU image and start finding MAPs with
something like WinOLS or Techtom's tune. So far I have only modified our
RPM Limit, my wife has an automatic which limits at 7500, I changed it to
8000 and everything worked just fine. The REV Limit warning still sounds at
7500 but it winds to an indicated 8200 (really 8000). The full product is
for the DIY tuners out there, the simple Flasher is for people who just want
to load a flash file and not make mods themselves. My hope is the DIY
community will make and share tunes, the combined brainpower of the RX8
community should be able to do a lot.

So it sounds like we can modify the maps using existing tools. But something custom written for the car would speed things up quite a bit.

Stuff like this gets me excited. I just checked out WinOLS and it has a "Map finder" feature, so maybe it won't be too bad.

Hmmm that seems good so far but I would like to see alot more tests until I give money towards the product.

did anyone order this yet to test it??

It's going to be released tomorrow. So I doubt anyone has one yet.

Also, this will be the first publicly available reflasher for our car, the only one we can buy, and at a price tag less than half of what we already know some others will sell at.

So Dan has done a great job at compelling us to consider his product.

Most important thing is , where can we download the latest flash.

and I have RB flash, can I use this program to save it to disk ? seems like its possible.

Most important thing is , where can we download the latest flash.

and I have RB flash, can I use this program to save it to disk ? seems like its possible.

Did I here correctly? Someone is going to ship a tool that allow you to take a RacingBeat flash from one car and put it on another?

Did I here correctly? Someone is going to ship a tool that allow you to take a RacingBeat flash from one car and put it on another?

usually reflashers mate to a car. So if you connect it to a new car, it stores the map, and you can't use that reflasher to another car till you uninstall it. The uninstall process puts back the original map on the car. This forces you to buy one reflasher per car (Unless you can deal with only having one car with a modified map at a time).

Assuming you have more than one reflasher, you can download the rb flash and put it on another car, but given the low volume of sales the rx-8 market likely generates, I would rather see you pay the price for the flash if you plan on using it. Otherwise there's not going to be incentive to develop anything for the 8.

yes,

this a great tool if you know how to modify all 900 tables.. it is missing the software to tune the car..


beers :beer:

Just to let you guys know, we have emailed RB twice with an offer to protect their tune from being copied by our tool, at $0.00 cost to them, but no one ever responded to our emails. As stated on the RX8 Programmer web page, protecting others pro tunes is a concern to us, and if at all possible, we will work with other tuners to protect their work.

Dan

dan,

i would like to understand this.. as i read the page. you have no software tuning tools to offer?? just the ability to flash.

beers :beer:

Subscribing

Subscribing

+1 :) :)

Dan - what can be modified by your "RX8 Programmer"? Can all the Fuel and timing tables be modified? Can open/closed loop and fan temps be adjusted? What all have you unlocked for the DIY tuner to change?

So let me get this sraight. As the product is shipped, you can download a tune, weither it is a stock tune or a RB tune, and then modify it and upload that tune back onto the ecu. I think the best place for this would be for people who track the car. You could have your street set up and then when you put 100 octane fuel in at the track, reflash it to pick up the extra power. I think if you are just going to drive on the street, save your money and get the RB flash because you would have to get the RB flash file from soemone else, meaning they need the programmer, and the upload it to your ecu, meaning you need the programmer.

This might also open up the manufactors of FI kits to reflashing the ecu like pettit instead of buying an external computor. They creat the tune, send out the file on a disk and you can flash your own ECU. if the tune needs to be tweaked or you want a race tune and a street tune you could save the files and download what you need, when you need it.

This could be a good product but for someone like me that has no idea how to tune a car, it could be dangerous.

With all due respect, Higway, we are way past that point already.

I was going to say that too but I just left it alone cause I knew someone else would

Sorry, maybe everyone was thinking it and I know some of my points were mentioned but i do not think it was all said.

Also, it was already asked but not answered. Where/how would someone get the latest mazda flash?

Also, it was already asked but not answered. Where/how would someone get the latest mazda flash?

Oh, this one is easy :)

1) Put on some overalls.

2) Hang out at your local dealership

3) Wait for someone to buy a RX-8

4) Pretend you work there, and offer to assist them by calibrating their PCM.

5) Download!

Sorry, maybe everyone was thinking it and I know some of my points were mentioned but i do not think it was all said.

Also, it was already asked but not answered. Where/how would someone get the latest mazda flash?It was posted a year or 2 ago where it can be found. I don't remember where. A search may be in order.

Oh, this one is easy :)

1) Put on some overalls.

2) Hang out at your local dealership

3) Wait for someone to buy a RX-8

4) Pretend you work there, and offer to assist them by calibrating their PCM.

5) Download!

See if you can brick there PCM also

Sorry, maybe everyone was thinking it and I know some of my points were mentioned but i do not think it was all said.

Also, it was already asked but not answered. Where/how would someone get the latest mazda flash?

the dealership..

it was part of the last recall, and is part of emissions compliance..


beers :beer:

subscribed.. waiting for others to test the waters ;) the price point is certainly very attractive

It was posted a year or 2 ago where it can be found. I don't remember where. A search may be in order.A while ago, we working on a solution to crack the ecu ourselves. This site has the OEM flashes.
http://www.mazdatechinfo.com/home/ecmDetail.asp
This is the thread where we were working on the ecu details.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=81801&page=3

This seems to have done what most of the tuners have stumbled over and that is downloading, saving, and uploading. It seems like folks that have tuning software have just been waiting for this piece to fall in to place, ala kane, MM etc.

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43 68 65 65 72 73 2c 0d 0a 48 79 6d 65 65 2e

^ what he said

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43 68 65 65 72 73 2c 0d 0a 48 79 6d 65 65 2e

that is what i said in this post..

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2307914&postcount=18

those #s are important.. duh..

buy what do i know.. i got no answer

beers :beer:

that is what i said in this post..

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2307914&postcount=18

those #s are important.. duh..

buy what do i know.. i got no answer

beers :beer:

Yeah - I know you said that. I actually said something in my message...

10 Hymee points for the first to know what it says. :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

Yeah - I know you said that. I actually said something in my message...

10 Hymee points for the first to know what it says. :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

ah,

got a good guess, but those are not the # i saw.. but that was 2 years ago..

beers :beer:

Just to let you guys know, we have emailed RB twice with an offer to protect their tune from being copied by our tool, at $0.00 cost to them, but no one ever responded to our emails. As stated on the RX8 Programmer web page, protecting others pro tunes is a concern to us, and if at all possible, we will work with other tuners to protect their work.

Dan

The cat is already out of the bag in that Jim M has shipped a bunch of his work product. Cam has shipped a bunch too. Both happened before this device.

The tool seems to allow anyone to grab anyone’s work and put it on another car. That is a real shame as it removes incentive to do more work on the RX-8.

With respect to protection, why does the world need to "register" with H R&D to keep their work from being lifted? Who builds tools that allow people to lift other's work product?

It won't be able to grab anyones. <evil grin>

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43 68 65 65 72 73 2c 0d 0a 48 79 6d 65 65 2e
That is a very basic looking interface. You would need to be able to decode HEX. If you can read this, then you are about 1/100th of the way there. Cheers,
Hymee.

And that isn't hex, that is ASCII.

Well done. It is the Hex values of the ASCII encoded text.

10 Hymee points for you :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

With respect to protection, why does the world need to "register" with H R&D to keep their work from being lifted? Who builds tools that allow people to lift other's work product?

Umm.. welcome to the internet

It would be rather entertaining to see RX8 maps end up on bittorrent though... :rofl:

Who builds tools that allow people to lift other's work product?
The tape recorder, VCR, Camcorder Camera, Tivo, copy machines, CD Burning tools, marcovison cracking tools, peer to peer networks, download sites (rapidshare.com) Or to put it another way " Tools don't hack, hackers hack".

With respect to protection, why does the world need to "register" with H R&D to keep their work from being lifted? Who builds tools that allow people to lift other's work product?

I'm going to have to assume you don't understand how the reflashers work.

He's not building a "stealing tool", this is just how the firmware works. His tool simply pulls the current programming from the PCM and allows the user to modify and push it back. There is already a security measure in place by Mazda that all reflahers are bypassing.

What Dan proposed is to work with others who have flashes out and come up with a way to block the ability to pull flashes that are from those sources. He didn't have to do this, but he's taking the extra step.

"Tools don't hack, hackers hack".

This reminds me of the big guy's tshirt from Happy Gilmore.. :rofl: Anyway..

I would like to extend that by saying "hackers hack, and it's a good thing"... Regardless of what the media would like you to believe, hackers aren't a breed of malicious basement-dwelling trolls.. There really isn't much that can be done to "hide" the maps that the flash companies release. However, they are cheap enough that most people would probably get them from RB anyway rather than risk killing your car with some map you found online, no?

Well done. It is the Hex values of the ASCII encoded text.

10 Hymee points for you :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

1 Hymee point=$10 toward the purchase price of the Hymee flash tool?

And maybe a test drive?

What Dan proposed is to work with others who have flashes out and come up with a way to block the ability to pull flashes that are from those sources. He didn't have to do this, but he's taking the extra step.

My point was that the product can be used to copy one tuner's files and place them on another car. Some of these tuners spend a lot of time and effort generating their solution to the problem of making a car run well.

I do not know this for sure, but I would think that Cobb, Hymee or EFIDude would not permit a user to pull a file from a PCM and put it on another car. If you do this, you are facilitating the theft of someone else's work.

The above mentioned tuning sources do not require you to contact them to protect their property. They protect that property because it is the right thing to do, not because you called them and asked all nice like. Only H R&D says call me if you do not want to be ripped off.

Only H R&D says call me if you do not want to be ripped off.

Okay. Instead of getting into circular logic with you on this topic, let me try to ask you a question: How would you like for Dan to prevent "theft" of flashes made by others? How would Dan know that a given file contains modifications by racing beat or cobb? Unless the resulting maps from these products include some sort of signature that lets them be identified, there is no way to tell a map racing beat created from one I generated.

Okay. Instead of getting into circular logic with you on this topic, let me try to ask you a question: How would you like for Dan to prevent "theft" of flashes made by others? How would Dan know that a given file contains modifications by racing beat or cobb? Unless the resulting maps from these products include some sort of signature that lets them be identified, there is no way to tell a map racing beat created from one I generated.

Fair enough.

Most of the tuners I have seen do fetch data from the PCM. You can then use the tuning tool company's software to edit that data and push it back on the PCM. Any data is encrypted as the tuning tool company does not want to distribute the map data that they spent a lot of time generating. In addition, the tools are usually locked to a VIN or VINs as well. All of these elements are barriers to moving one tuner's property from one car to another without paying him for his product. These barriers are the responsible way to make money without enabling theft.

Harrison came by the seed/key stuff and added it to his scan tool. He does not encrypt files pulled from PCMs and thus he does not take the precautions of a Cobb, Hymee or EFIDude to protect a tuner's property.

Is it the tuner's fault that H R&D does not have an editing package or any map knowledge? Why should the tuner be open to being ripped off out of no fault of his own? Why should the tuner, like Jim M, be forced to give H R&D a call to keep from being ripped off?

Some people think it is ok to move files from one car to another. Some do not. All I was trying to point out is the H R&D is doing something that no other tuning company that I know of (and I do not know them all) will permit to happen. I thought it was good to know.

We can talk more if you would like to PM as I am not sure anyone would be interested in the gory details.

In re-reading your comment, all H R&D needs to do is post on his web site-

Tuners, please place a NO READ in this non checksumed region and I will not download your files.

That will not stop everyone but it would be a responsible first step.

Harison didn't make this device to rip anyone off. They made it for tuning purposes. If the user so chooses to use someone elses work on their car then thats up to them. This isn't the first reflasher to hit the market for cars so don't get your panties all in a ruffle about map sharing. It's happened with other cars and it was bound to happen with a popular sport car such as our beloved 8.

In re-reading your comment, all H R&D needs to do is post on his web site-

Tuners, please place a NO READ in this non checksumed region and I will not download your files.

That will not stop everyone but it would be a responsible first step.

I can agree with that statement, however since RB already has flashed cars out there, they can't retroactively do it. Thus why he contacted them to see about a way to block transfer of their flash.

Is it the tuner's fault that H R&D does not have an editing package or any map knowledge? Why should the tuner be open to being ripped off out of no fault of his own? Why should the tuner, like Jim M, be forced to give H R&D a call to keep from being ripped off?


Everything you use on a daily basis got ripped off at one point or another from someone elses idea....from the keyboard you're using right now and the monitor you're staring at to the very language you speak. Does that mean that all the tools that went into making these items should be banned and prohibbited from being used by others? No. Why? Because if that happened our technological advancements would come to a screaching hault and our rotary engine that we have today would not exist.

I believe, in talking to my Subaru friends, they can share maps with the Cobb AP. The bonding tech built into the unit is only there so only one car can use the hardware and it can't be shared between cars. They are selling hardware/software, not the actual maps. I think Cobb gives you a couple of maps just to get you in the ball park. As a starting point. Each car is unique and each owner has his own requirements. I think most people will go to a professional tuner. Most of us know just enough to be dangerous.

I can agree with that statement, however since RB already has flashed cars out there, they can't retroactively do it. Thus why he contacted them to see about a way to block transfer of their flash.

H R&D contacted them about protecting future product, not past product.

If you are interested in getting calls, you say call me and I will protect you.

If you are interested in protecting, you honor NO READ statements.

Please PM as I think we are thrashing a dead horse.

Step 1: Reasearch security through obscurity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity)
Step 2: Repent

Let's not forget all the various hardware versions and their respective different flashes, when people are concerned about straight up copying.

You'd have to know that your setup will be compatible with the flash you're taking from somewhere else, before you'd be foolish enough to do a plain old copy->overwrite.

More likely you'd take the map data or other changed values and merge them into your current flash (or something like that - assuming they were compatible, which is again another risk). If you have that much skill, you could probably bypass a simple 'no copy' bit.

How far down the rabbit hole is it worth going? Eventually you'll make it just difficult enough so someone else will come up with their own more flexible solution.

I for one would rather see good open tools. Modern automotive flashing is based on a standardized protocol, no? I don't see how you can create a new end-to-end security model without changing the way the car works. (Edit: & if that's really the heart of your complaint, then you should blame Mazda for electing to use this fundamentally insecure ECU setup)

Finally isn't there already some encryption support already in the design? (VIN based or something...) Or is that merely enforced on the tool side, and everything is truly open on the ECU if you have an 'unrestricted' tool? (Client-side-only security is a flawed idea)

Didn't Nissan make some attempt to secure the GT-R? That didn't last too long and the car is barely in anyone's hands...


2 cents

It seems as if each latest flash from Mazda has some sort of BS politics surrounding it. Stuff like having to make the proper claim in order to get the latest, needing to know someone who works at a dealership, knowing someone with the right hardware, etc. For this one, I have no idea.


you just get a subscription and get it from here

http://www.mazdatechinfo.com/home/DandPCcatalogTop.asp

Before anyone makes the argument for COBB's maps are copyrighted, I would like pointed out there is an ASCII copyright statement in the factory PCM that COBB themselves are ignoring anyway.

(That is unless COBB wants to argue their maps are 100% from scratch.)

-Mr. Wigggles

US law states that companies have to allow access to flash updates. it also allows them to charge a fee for the portal. remember they have to actually host the site and make the transfers possible. that does cost them some money. besides its their work product. they deserve to get something for it.

i do think its proper. what i dont think is proper is them not saying what the flash does- and the Oregon Attorney generals office agrees. i think with each flash there should be a pamphlet or handout that in laymans terms describes the changes.

if a mechanic takes a wrench to your car he has to tell you why- a flash is just a techy wrench and they should explain what they are doing.

http://www.drewtech.com/support/j2534/intro.html

remember you dont have to use the MDS or what ever its called now. you can by any 3rd party tool- thats the standard. like those made by drew tech in the link etc.

Before anyone makes the argument for COBB's maps are copyrighted, I would like pointed out there is an ASCII copyright statement in the factory PCM that COBB themselves are ignoring anyway.

(That is unless COBB wants to argue their maps are 100% from scratch.)

-Mr. Wigggles

Firmware can be copywrited. I've been told by those familiar with the legal side of tuning companies that the tables are not. If this is true, then Cobb is doing nothing wrong.

They are smart guys and have been around for a very long time. I suspect they are doing everything the right way.

My point was that the product can be used to copy one tuner's files and place them on another car. Some of these tuners spend a lot of time and effort generating their solution to the problem of making a car run well.

If you knew anything about a professionally done flash tune (like Cobbs for instance), thats not possible...

Fair enough.

Most of the tuners I have seen do fetch data from the PCM. You can then use the tuning tool company's software to edit that data and push it back on the PCM. Any data is encrypted as the tuning tool company does not want to distribute the map data that they spent a lot of time generating. In addition, the tools are usually locked to a VIN or VINs as well. All of these elements are barriers to moving one tuner's property from one car to another without paying him for his product. These barriers are the responsible way to make money without enabling theft.

Harrison came by the seed/key stuff and added it to his scan tool. He does not encrypt files pulled from PCMs and thus he does not take the precautions of a Cobb, Hymee or EFIDude to protect a tuner's property.

Is it the tuner's fault that H R&D does not have an editing package or any map knowledge? Why should the tuner be open to being ripped off out of no fault of his own? Why should the tuner, like Jim M, be forced to give H R&D a call to keep from being ripped off?

Some people think it is ok to move files from one car to another. Some do not. All I was trying to point out is the H R&D is doing something that no other tuning company that I know of (and I do not know them all) will permit to happen. I thought it was good to know.

We can talk more if you would like to PM as I am not sure anyone would be interested in the gory details.

Are you trying to say that we should ban all weapons, ropes, etc. Cuz they can kill people with it ?

Obviously you have zero clue about the thing Dan is trying to create.

Are you trying to say that we should ban all weapons, ropes, etc. Cuz they can kill people with it ?

Obviously you have zero clue about the thing Dan is trying to create.

Yep!
I guess I am the one with zero clue, especially when it comes to the thing Dan is trying to create. Where are Alice and that darned rabbit?

As for tools to copy other people's work, opinions tend to differ between those doing the lifting and those creating the value. I am concerned for those creating the value which seems to put me in the minority. I can live with that.

I can not believe people are so vehemently defending this stuff. I hope those with such strong opinions actually do something useful one day only to loose it without being paid for it. The only problem with that "round world" theory is that the person must first do something useful before it can be taken.

As for Cobb being protected, good for them. I am glad to hear it.

:nopity:

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43 68 65 65 72 73 2c 0d 0a 48 79 6d 65 65 2e

Sneaky guy...

Firmware can be copywrited. I've been told by those familiar with the legal side of tuning companies that the tables are not. If this is true, then Cobb is doing nothing wrong.

They are smart guys and have been around for a very long time. I suspect they are doing everything the right way.
I wasn't attacking Cobb but preempting their potential legal argument once people start "stealing" their maps.

If you download somebody else's Cobb tune to your car, that should be treated no differently than what Cobb did when they downloaded Mazda's tune originally for their own development and now resale.

I am probably getting way ahead of things, but I see future complaints from Cobb coming due to products like the Harrison device. Cobb might complain: "People are stealing our maps!" Well that's kind of what Cobb did to Mazda to get the map in the first place.

Once again, this is all hypothetical.

-Mr. Wigggles

I wasn't attacking Cobb but preempting their potential legal argument once people start "stealing" their maps.

If you download somebody else's Cobb tune to your car, that should be treated no differently than what Cobb did when they downloaded Mazda's tune originally for their own development and now resale.

I am probably getting way ahead of things, but I see future complaints from Cobb coming due to products like the Harrison device. Cobb might complain: "People are stealing our maps!" Well that's kind of what Cobb did to Mazda to get the map in the first place.

Once again, this is all hypothetical.

-Mr. Wigggles

I can see your point and it makes good sense. I was just lamenting a potential deterrent to smart tuners putting their best efforts into generating good maps.

I started from Mazda's base so I am guilty as well.

I am probably getting way ahead of things, but I see future complaints from Cobb coming due to products like the Harrison device. Cobb might complain: "People are stealing our maps!" Well that's kind of what Cobb did to Mazda to get the map in the first place.

Once again, this is all hypothetical.

-Mr. Wigggles

Its a moot point as after you marry the Accessport to you car's ECU, even the dealer can't reflash or read the flash... only access the OBD-II data - like most flash tuning devices or else the manufacturers would be going out of business pretty quickly with people stealing tunes and sharing flashing tools.

Its a moot point as after you marry the Accessport to you car's ECU, even the dealer can't reflash or read the flash... only access the OBD-II data - like most flash tuning devices or else the manufacturers would be going out of business pretty quickly with people stealing tunes and sharing flashing tools.

I like that the flash you pay good money for can not be overwritten by the dealer. However, how do you handle it when the dealer calls you and says their OEM support tools can not reflash your car? Is the dealer going to think the PCM is bad and want to charge you for a replacement?

Why would you take your car to the dealer without reflashing it back to the OEM flash that you store on the AP? I would never let the dealer touch my reflash.

Why would you take your car to the dealer without reflashing it back to the OEM flash that you store on the AP? I would never let the dealer touch my reflash.

Thanks
That makes perfect sense.

The true issue to me is about being able to see and edit the flash you uploaded from your own car or flash from another source.

If you can't do this than you have just a re-flasher. It is also dangerous to your car to download somebody else's flash to your ECU. There is also the issue of different PCM and flashes for different countries. So downloading a JDM flash to your U.S. car can be a problem too. In addition, to unverified or flashes of unknown specifications.

You have to know if the flash will work on your car.

Part of the key is being able to see parameters of the flash while on a computer. You can see what the flash does and better yet would be being able to modify the flash.

^^^ that's sorta what i was saying regarding copying.
(there is significant risk without detailed knowledge of the flash)
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2309649&postcount=62

to me, the utility of flashing the ecu and software to edit/tune a flash are really two separate things.

ECU flash tuning solution providers bundle the two actions together with their products. Perhaps they are relying on some implicit security by tying together both mechanisms, but unless they are modifying the system to no longer be J2534 compliant (which COBB does?), there has always been the risk that another conforming flasher/reader could manipulate (copy, overwrite) their output. (this was one of lola's concerns, i think)

I suppose a provider of a flash editor could simply disable the READ logic to protect from copying, and leave the WRITE part to make the ECU flash a one-way device. That way you could always flash it back to stock and start over. (I don't know how feasible it is to do - there could be some significant drawbacks)

Now that i think about it for a second, personally i am more drawn to a standard compliant flasher/reader, and standalone editor combination - i guess part of me doesn't like my ecu being locked down completely.

This leads me to a hypothetical question:
What if my COBB AP breaks or is stolen, is my ECU stuck in the same state forever? (someone says the dealer cannot reflash it...)

If you have no way to read the ECU, then how can you keep a copy of your stock flash???

You can't make the flash "non passthrough compliant". It will just not be compliant with the factory tool.

(Food for thought. I've got it all covered in my mind, and product for that matter :))

Cheers,
Hymee.

This leads me to a hypothetical question:
What if my COBB AP breaks or is stolen, is my ECU stuck in the same state forever? (someone says the dealer cannot reflash it...)

Good point. Unless they have a backdoor for getting in...

54 68 61 74 20 69 73 20 61 20 76 65 72 79 20 62 61 73 69 63 20 6c 6f 6f 6b 69 6e 67 20 69 6e 74 65 72 66 61 63 65 2e 20 20 59 6f 75 20 77 6f 75 6c 64 20 6e 65 65 64 20 74 6f 20 62 65 20 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 64 65 63 6f 64 65 20 48 45 58 2e 20 20 49 66 20 79 6f 75 20 63 61 6e 20 72 65 61 64 20 74 68 69 73 2c 20 74 68 65 6e 20 79 6f 75 20 61 72 65 20 61 62 6f 75 74 20 31 2f 31 30 30 74 68 20 6f 66 20 74 68 65 20 77 61 79 20 74 68 65 72 65 2e

43 68 65 65 72 73 2c 0d 0a 48 79 6d 65 65 2e

Well shit it took me approx 5 sec with a translator, so are you saying in about 500 seconds I could do this myself?

This leads me to a hypothetical question:
What if my COBB AP breaks or is stolen, is my ECU stuck in the same state forever? (someone says the dealer cannot reflash it...)

they have great customer service

If you have no way to read the ECU, then how can you keep a copy of your stock flash???

You can't make the flash "non passthrough compliant". It will just not be compliant with the factory tool.

(Food for thought. I've got it all covered in my mind, and product for that matter :))

Cheers,
Hymee.

well you would copy it to your computer before you upload a flash that locks out reading. ;) or you could download the appropriate stock flash from the dealer tech net. Or perhaps when flashing is more prevalent in the future, the rx8club could have such a resource available.

The physical flash memory itself would always be accessible (write-able/read-able), but it could create the need to open up the unit and wire to the memory directly; unless you're saying that the pass-through read/write interface is already directly connected to the memory and not handled (or abstracted) by the software running on the ECU (which could be modified to create the scenario i described).
If that's the case I don't know how COBB is locking others flashers out - are they only locking the dealer out (because the standard dealer tool has some behavior they're exploiting - version checks or something) ?

My idea might not even be possible because read access could be required for the action of writing (checksums or safety checks or responses, etc)

Good point. Unless they have a backdoor for getting in...

if there is some method to bypass their marriage lockout, then that would seem to be the case.

they have great customer service

I don't doubt that~
though i am curious about what 'other' changes occur when you marry the AP besides the tune.

--

thanks for the replies!

Well shit it took me approx 5 sec with a translator, so are you saying in about 500 seconds I could do this myself?

You picked the right encoding, which wasn't hard that hard was it? Should I post another one?

Cheers,
Hymee.

You picked the right encoding, which wasn't hard that hard was it? Should I post another one?

Cheers,
Hymee.

Do it do it! I missed the first one :rant: :lol2:

This leads me to a hypothetical question:
What if my COBB AP breaks or is stolen, is my ECU stuck in the same state forever? (someone says the dealer cannot reflash it...)[/QUOTE]

It will be locked until you acquire a second re-flasher from the same company. Once the ECU is locked out, the factory tool can neither read or write the ECU Flash memory via the OBD-II connector. The diagnostic and OBD functions of the ECU still work.

i think i need to read up on exactly what the encrypted flash does.

can encrypted files be read back out? (in an encrypted state - or do you have supply decrypt key to read it, or can they not be read at all?)

that might give me the answers i'm looking for.

i think i need to read up on exactly what the encrypted flash does.

can encrypted files be read back out? (in an encrypted state - or do you have supply decrypt key to read it, or can they not be read at all?)

that might give me the answers i'm looking for.

I think data goes on and off the PCM unencrypted (Mazda's firmware which by copy write really should not be changed). I am guessing the encryption happens on the tool or PC side.

The real road block is changing the PCM security so that only the tool that did the deed knows how to get back in.

The real road block is changing the PCM security so that only the tool that did the deed knows how to get back in.

;)

Cheers Hymee.

I think data goes on and off the PCM unencrypted (Mazda's firmware which by copy write really should not be changed). I am guessing the encryption happens on the tool or PC side.

The real road block is changing the PCM security so that only the tool that did the deed knows how to get back in.

that's sort've what i was getting at with one of my earlier posts in this thread.

I think at this point, I'll wait for a bit and see.