The one that came with the kit fit the factory MAF housing.


the original one that came with MY kit didnt fit the factory maf....ID is too small...
the maf that came with MY kit is smaller than factory

Interesting. Well, you didn't get a MAF tube with your kit, right? Wasn't your MAF tied out of the way like the instructions specified?
Phil didn't get a MAF tube.

Any ETA on the Pettit MAF tube and a cost? I tried calling the shop but have not heard back yet. If I don't hear anything by the end of next week I will be calling Racing Beat.

OD - how did you remove the Racing Beat anodizing?

Interesting. Well, you didn't get a MAF tube with your kit, right? Wasn't your MAF tied out of the way like the instructions specified?
Phil didn't get a MAF tube.

correct!!.....
there wasnt a maf on my tube when i got the car back...it was tucked away....but we did install it at a later date....in the original tube that came with the kit...

.but we did install it at a later date....in the original tube that came with the kit...

How did you manage that?

correct!!.....
there wasnt a maf on my tube when i got the car back...it was tucked away....but we did install it at a later date....in the original tube that came with the kit...

I'm not sure how Shina got her maf tube but with me it came with an upgrade kit a little later after the original install.

i didnt get an upgrade kit....just made the original one work using a dremel...

see pic below...

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1968/p7070001eb2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

actually this was posted with pics on this thread i believe back in July..

I got the powder coating off the rb tube with a dremel buffing brush --it was pretty easy. It seems that the RB tube is the same size that is needed. The filter and the internal horn can be fitted with a little work---unsure if it is really needed though. probably not. So just drill a hole for a vacuum access in the maf pipe and use it with the supplied K&N one---to me the RB one is a little big and heavy hanging out there without any support.
Glad i never cut my maf wires!
I guess now the sensor hole for intake temps used before in the upper intake could be used for something else?
Question about the methanol system--I Know Cam mounts the nozzle before the supercharger but in theory what if the methanol injection was injected after the s.c. in the upper or lower manifolds? Now this is a maf guided system--so does post induction injection cause a/f ratios to change?
oldscdragger

I got the powder coating off the rb tube with a dremel buffing brush --it was pretty easy. It seems that the RB tube is the same size that is needed. The filter and the internal horn can be fitted with a little work---unsure if it is really needed though. probably not. So just drill a hole for a vacuum access in the maf pipe and use it with the supplied K&N one---to me the RB one is a little big and heavy hanging out there without any support.
Glad i never cut my maf wires!
I guess now the sensor hole for intake temps used before in the upper intake could be used for something else?
Question about the methanol system--I Know Cam mounts the nozzle before the supercharger but in theory what if the methanol injection was injected after the s.c. in the upper or lower manifolds? Now this is a maf guided system--so does post induction injection cause a/f ratios to change?
oldscdragger

OSCD

I found this article on methanol injection and might be able to answer your question. :eyetwitch

Injector Nozzle Placement

There is a lot of debate about the best place to position the injectors, so this will cover the different options, along with either the pros or cons of each.

Before the Air Intake Temperature Sensor:

This is the most common place because it is usually the easiest. Make sure you never inject pre-intercooler, unless you are injecting pre-blower on a supercharged engine. The idea is that if you have an engine that adjusts timing on its own, then the computer will see the cooler air charge and advance timing, allowing for more power. By placing the injector as far from the intake manifold/air intake sensor as possible, it allows for the water/methanol mixture to be absorbed into the air charge to allow for the best possible even distribution to each cylinder. In theory, since the air charge will be mixed for a longer distance, and therefore time, allowing for the moisture to be absorbed by the air, creating the coolest possible air charge going into the cylinders. If you have multiple nozzles to install, try and space them out by a couple of inches, rather than have them mounted at the exact same location. This will provide better dispersal of the mist into the aircharge.

If your engine is computer controlled, it is probably programmed to reduce boost when it sees a lower air charge temperature. It will do this because it is programmed to output a given horsepower, and since the air charge is colder, it is therefore denser, resulting in less boost being required to provide that given horsepower. If you have a manual or electric boost controller, you may or may not be able to bypass the computer’s control. This area is a common area of discussion among tuners, so we wanted to pass on the information so you can monitor your own personal results.

After the Air Intake Sensor:

This is also a very common place to mount the injector. You can usually mount it either before or after the ‘butterfly’ and still be after the air intake temperature sensor. The main difference when mounting the injector before or after the butterfly is there is less vacuum before versus after the butterfly when idling or driving in vacuum. Translation, when in vacuum, there is more vacuum after the butterfly than before it. Here is why this is important: If your solenoid is placed very far from the injectors (more than a couple of feet), then the vacuum can actually suck just a little bit of the water/methanol. This small amount of moisture ingestion during vacuum is not a problem, but the next time you boost, but not enough to trigger the injection system, the water/meth sucked out will now be replaced with air. It will be a minimal amount, but what happens is the next time the water/meth injection system is triggered, there will be a small amount of air to expel before the water/meth reaches the injector. This is a minor issue, as the injectors are primed very quickly again, but it is something the user needs to know about.

Summary:

Every engine will react differently. What works great for one, might not wors as well for another. A true tuner will take what knowledge is available, and mount the injectors in the location they believe best. After thorough testing, you might want to move the injectors to see if your results improve. This can be challenging for the average user, as there will be a hole where the injector was previously mounted.

Even though you are MAF, your IAT is still in the plenum (unless Cam changed that back for some reason, which would be very bad).
The MAF doesn't care what temp the charge ends up - it knows exactly how much air is going into your motor (in theory - the idle bleed screws this up pretty badly, but I won't get into that here). The change in charge density won't affect the MAF reading regardless of where it happens.
You will want it to happen before the IAT because this will affect ignition timing.
For maximum actual charge cooling (to yield the densest charge), you want the injection to happen after the blower.

ok--great info guys thanks---i know now, in my situation why i am questioning this. As you know I am running the int x for the present --soon to swap over to the flash BUT, now , for me, the int x takes the iat reading from the sensor in the upper intake --as it should be, but by default. I never had to modify my maf iat connections as the int x was capable of bypassing the oem pcm and maf reading. The install instructions for the Pettit system tells you to pull the iat wires from the maf and connect them to the new uim iat sensor but I never did that because I didnt have too.. I believe a lot of people with this kit have done that. SO before the flash is installed I also have to convert to this way of reading the IAT . And I had not thought of that---duh:). Knowledge gained---thanks!
Jeff --with the flash there will no longer be an idle air hose. My backyard fix:) will no longer be required for a smooth and constant idle. That vacuum hose will go to the purge control sensor directly , the air jet and the omp will have one ways and go back to the air intake like oem.
I wonder with the capabilities of the methanol kit and since the iat sensor will be reading post injection and we have the maf system working---will the iat be low enough to tell the pcm to go to a "warm up" mode? If that did occur would that not take the st trims etc out of the picture? Yo would not want that --right?
Juan and I spoke of this a little but I was confused at the time---kinda my normal state lately.
Juan thanks for the direction --will be reading on this today. You are doing sweet work--appreciate it.
oldscdragger

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2727/pc280165uo8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Same fab we did on mine, Shinka. I cut off the airbox snorkel flush with the box using a Sawzall, dressed down the flanges with a dremel, and drilled the vacuum fitting hole for a self-tapping metal fitting. Charles, et. al. doing this, you probably already know this, so my apologies if I'm being redundant: Moon was very insistent that the vacuum fitting be downstream in the intake flow from the MAF sensor. This is the fix until Pettit gets the new housings made.

Hey Ray--i remember, i was originally puzzled because I was thinking for some reason that the pcm after the flash was picking up the air temps at the maf instead of on the uim sensor. :uhh:
True on the vacuum location --and as far away from the maf as possible. I also placed a appropriate sized rubber grommet on the vacuum fitting and used glue to get a tight fit.. Also make sure the vacuum fitting is not penetrating into the pipe itself much at all.
Seems like the oem pipe is slightly bigger than RB's--oem is at least a 90mm and RB is at 87mm or so?
I am understanding this kit more everyday.
Now hope to make the power as useable as possible ==---for a road track that is.
oldscdragger

if you're serious about an emissions-legal high flow exhaust:

Complete custom stainless steel ultra-lightweight emissions-legal exhaust system - T321 stainless log manifold with 3" V-clamp outlet having HPC "EXTREME" black 2000 degF ceramic coating, mating T304 stainless 3" cat-pipe with high-temp, ultra-high flow (50 CPI) metallic racing cat converter, 3" Burns Stainless utra-light re-packable T304 stainless resonator-muffler with stainless steel scrub packing, and 3" T304 stainless rear pipe splitting off into dual 2" pipes fitted with dual 2" Supertrapp shorty mufflers exiting through the OE bumper shrouds. Cat was recently inspected and shows zero internal defects. Has to be installed as a complete assembly - not compatible with the OE exhaust components. Bolts on and is approx. 45 lbs lighter than the full OE exhaust system. The cat converter itself cost $700 imported from Europe. $1500 shipped!


http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=134056

For my FI information, (with getting the Pettit SC on a stock RX8) of the usually recommended performance upgrades, which would you recommend before, and which after the SC installation. I guess I'm seeking kind of a logical order of upgrades if the Pettit SC is the main focus.

I have synthetic oils, do premix etc. I have the Short Shifter (installed). Picked up some SS brake lines and coilovers already because I found deals on ones I liked (both uninstalled).

-Intake - would be part of SC kit.

-Pulley - also part of SC kit.


Of the other upgrades I'd like to do, my guess of the timing would be...

Flywheel (?) and exhaust (at least the hi-flo cat piece) "before"...because they would have somewhat more of an effect on the tuning.

Tires (and maybe brakes (unsure about stock)) "before" or shortly after, just for safety reasons.

Suspension (the coilovers, + sways, then maybe braces)...I'm not sure if it would be better to upgrade the suspension before or after getting the SC. Would the extra power make that much of a difference in the suspension setup? Everthing will be adjustable in my suspension setup anyway?


Any input on or corrections to the above would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys (and girl)!

For my FI information, (with getting the Pettit SC on a stock RX8) of the usually recommended performance upgrades, which would you recommend before, and which after the SC installation. I guess I'm seeking kind of a logical order of upgrades if the Pettit SC is the main focus.

I have synthetic oils, do premix etc. I have the Short Shifter (installed). Picked up some SS brake lines and coilovers already because I found deals on ones I liked (both uninstalled).

-Intake - would be part of SC kit.

-Pulley - also part of SC kit.


Of the other upgrades I'd like to do, my guess of the timing would be...

Flywheel (?) and exhaust (at least the hi-flo cat piece) "before"...because they would have somewhat more of an effect on the tuning.


Tires (and maybe brakes (unsure about stock)) "before" or shortly after, just for safety reasons.

Suspension (the coilovers, + sways, then maybe braces)...I'm not sure if it would be better to upgrade the suspension before or after getting the SC. Would the extra power make that much of a difference in the suspension setup? Everthing will be adjustable in my suspension setup anyway?


Any input on or corrections to the above would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys (and girl)!
Relocate your oil filter.

I read through the install and know about moving the oil fill tube over by the master cylinder mount. I didn't know about the oil filter. Why do you relocate it? Does it not fit anymore or is there a different reason? (The stock location of it is terrible, I should have probably done it already anyway)

Whose kit did you guys use, Greddy? Made your own? Other?

If Pettit installs the SC, do they relocate it?

Is that enough questions? Sorry!

Some of us are able to reach the oil filter to change it while others are not. The blower case tends to crowd things a bit. Reaching the filter is not impossible and I can do it through the driver's side wheelwell but a remote mount would make it all rather easy.

Cured, you are invited to ask as many questions as you like to get comfortable with the kit before buying it.

I just changed my oil filter last week. First time since I installed my SC and there was enough room to hand loose and remove it. Just make sure to let the engine sit for an hour or so to avoid burning your hand. Also, I punch a small hole on top of the oil filter before draining the used oil. That way you don't end up with oil all over the engine upon oil filter removal. :eyetwitch

OK so oil relocation is "recommended" for the convenience, not "necessary" for the install.

I haven't read of anything that is "necessary" for the SC install.?.

My question was more if I'm also installing lightweight flywheel, exhaust, tires, suspension etc. Which would you recommend doing before the Pettit SC.

I'm just trying to get a timeline and direction going for this project. I tend to be picky about parts and getting good deals, so it takes me awhile to research, find and get what I want.

You dont need a light flywheel if you go with pettit. An exhaust would be good. None of the other is needed before the pettit kit--it would just be a personnel choice.
if you decided to do a flywheel anyway go ahead and upgrade the clutch.
oscd

i think for me, IMO, looking at other performance mods before and/or after the pettit install would depend on how you drive your car...what kind of mileage..ie city and/or highway and if your gonna track it...

those would be top criteria on what i would replace...especially since the blower is an expensive proposition...

the 8 has a lot of good oem stuff already...suspension, etc...
but i noticed since i got the blower, i DO drive the car differently... :naughty:

so having the tein s techs, eibach sways and MS strut bar...installed prior to the SC worked out well...

ive been told by cam that the factory clutch is good along with oem calipers...i chose EBC 3GD rotors (slotted and dimpled).. they seem to work really well with oem calipers...i still have oem pads....

before the install, i was runnin with a borla catback...since the blower, i have a straight pipe...which i will prolly keep on...since i put less than 5k per year, i am exempt from emissions..

Pettit does not relocate the oil filter with their installs but if you want it done, im sure they can do it...
Im lazy...i just have my shop do it...(change my oil)
:D:

You dont need a light flywheel if you go with pettit. An exhaust would be good. None of the other is needed before the pettit kit--it would just be a personnel choice.
if you decided to do a flywheel anyway go ahead and upgrade the clutch.
oscd

What do you mean when you say "you don't NEED a lightweight flywheel if you go with Pettit"? I don't want to misinterpret that. Are you talking about not needing one for the actual install of the SC, because I get that. Or are you referring to the funtionality of a lightweight flywheel with the Pettit SC, because I'm not sure I understand that. For track day applications I think it would have obvious advantages. For daily driver or just spirited street driving maybe not so much.

A light-weight flywheel will offer the same performance envelope, regardless of the FI choice.
Whether or not you "need" or "want" one is not germane to the discussion of FI selection.
The OE clutch and pressure plate are good to about 280 - 300 ft/lbs of torque, depending on its condition.

The numbers listed in Exedy's product info for the OE replacement.
Since they are the OE supplier, there is little reason to believe that there is any difference between the OE clutch and the replacement OE clutch.
Having had both in hand, I can tell you that they are physically indistinguishable.

what do people think about tires / wheels?

As Cured is talking about changing his wheels, and will be getting a fair bit mroe power with the SC, should he think about fatter rear wheels?

And if so what should he use on the fronts to balance them out for best handling?

IMO...depends on what you want to do with the car after the blower...

im running 19x8.5 all around...
there are pros and cons on a staggered config...depending on the staggered setup...

to me, staggered is more of an appearance mod ie going with a more aggressive look...ive never driven an 8 with a staggered set up..but most say you can loose some handling with it..

I have experienced great balance with my RB swaybars and springs and the car 4-wheel drifts in steady-state turns darn predictably. I'd hate to change that by using wider rears.

^^ precisely!!

I only have 3000 miles on a stock clutch. So it should be adequate for awhile with this FI application. When it goes, maybe I'll just do both flywheel and clutch then. Unless I get an itch, because it may be awhile.

Staggered is not in my plans. I have 18's so maybe 245/40 instead of 225/45.

I guess tires (by preference) and exhaust (hi-flo cat) are all I'm gonna make sure I do prior to contacting Pettit. I was gonna wait on the cat-back to hear some with the Pettit before choosing one. There shouldn't be an issue if I just have the Hi-Flo cat and not the catback yet when I get the SC, right? Anything else that would effect the Flash and tune if done afterwards?

Pettit's site offered a Hi-Flo cat with the Holiday special last month. Did anyone get that option? I was thinking RP Supercat, but Pettit's may be a better option since it's tested with their setup. Depends on the quality of the Cat I guess. Who's did they use, is it their own?

Want I meant is that you probably will not see much of a difference in performance with a lighten flywheel after a Pettit install. If you want it for rev matching---cool, that means you are tracking? If you are tracking go ahead and upgrade the clutch, while you are doing the flywheel. The oem clutch and PP is very good, but while the tranny is out it doesnt cost much to put a slight upgrade in.
upgrade coils asap--but not "needed for install"--BUT do make sure the ones you have are good along with your plugs.
Make sure your fuel pump is good also.
If tracking---you dont want to go out on oem size tires. The rear tires will break loose very easily after a good FI install. Same size all the way around please---for the track. You also will need better pads, SS lines and brake fluid but you may have already mentioned that.
Gauges are a must.
Stock suspenion is actually not bad except for the shocks. replace those for track use. The stock ones allow some really wiggly movements of the rear end under hard braking.
get a good performance alignment--you will enjoy the car much more.
Remember none of this is actually needed for the install(except making sure the coils/plugs and fuel pump are working well and gauges), but an FI kit alone is a BIG change. With cars you change one thing and it leads to having to change other things for the best performance to suit the individuals requirements.
Good luck with it!
oscd

I only have 3000 miles on a stock clutch. So it should be adequate for awhile with this FI application. When it goes, maybe I'll just do both flywheel and clutch then. Unless I get an itch, because it may be awhile.

Staggered is not in my plans. I have 18's so maybe 245/40 instead of 225/45.

I guess tires (by preference) and exhaust (hi-flo cat) are all I'm gonna make sure I do prior to contacting Pettit. I was gonna wait on the cat-back to hear some with the Pettit before choosing one. There shouldn't be an issue if I just have the Hi-Flo cat and not the catback yet when I get the SC, right? Anything else that would effect the Flash and tune if done afterwards?

Pettit's site offered a Hi-Flo cat with the Holiday special last month. Did anyone get that option? I was thinking RP Supercat, but Pettit's may be a better option since it's tested with their setup. Depends on the quality of the Cat I guess. Who's did they use, is it their own?


im not sure what they use for the high flow
:)

Just saw your latest post--I believe most people are just running a midpipe and not a high flow cat--but for emissions you may have too?
oscd

As ive been seriously considering doing the pettit SC. I went and saw the shop in riviera beach, met cam, got a ride in the stage 3.... i remember he mentionned that the stage 3 had every option... except a catback exhaust because they kept getting ruined... I was paying more attention at the time to the banzai and the stage 3... so im wondering if its always an issue or just in that case? I love the sound of my MS catback, and i dont have a stock exhaust so... anyone run into this?

also... once I buy the SC and install... what else am i going to need to buy to get a good reliable daily/autocrosser?
Thanks for the advice.

Don't know about your area but currently there is a visual check to see a cat. - no cat no license. Now you say it could be easy to get around that with friends? Wrong, they are randomly stopping vehicles to check for the cat. The high flow cat is perfect for Southern Nevada. Cali has the same thing but you don't hear much about it.

Tracking not really in my plans. Just never seemed to get involved with it. If I did, I'd probably be an addict. Good for me, bad for rest of the family.

Even though no emmissions here, I was thinking Hi-Flo as opposed to midpipe for sound. But maybe the midpipe isn't that loud with the Pettit?

For auto-x, a turbo may be better.

AutoX spends most of its time in low RPMs and constant throttle changes.
I think an S/C might actually be a better choice for a dedicated AutoX car.
Of course, a properly size (small) turbo at low boost will work also, but it might be a bit twitchy and somewhat disappointing on the street.
If the car is going to be used in a variety of driving situations, then the choices become more critical.

Probably not where I might make comments to that extent.
FI choice is dependent on goals on careful evaluation.

I'm not busting your balls. I'm just saying that anything I say, no matter how measured or well reasoned, will be taken completely out of context in this thread.

What's wrong with making clear my opinion on the best application for a given product? I am not trying to be disrespectful, just helpful. I have certainly paid my dues and steered people toward this kit when they otherwise straddled the fence.

Even without paying your dues, the fact that you've always been respectful to everyone gives you a lot more credibility when it comes to your opinions.

As far as autocrossing, most of the courses (at least down here) are designed so that you can pretty much stay in second gear, with a few downshifts and quick upshifts after hard braking and powering out of a turn. You're in the power band the whole time, and the flat torque curve makes the car a lot less jerky. Autocross is all about smoothness; smooth is fast.

^^ God, I love the fact that I can't see his posts anymore!
So much more pleasant around here.

How about we both tell ourselves to "eff" off before someone else does.....

Nah, that's no fun. So, eff-off!

Auto-X pretty much lives in second, so you would be running from 2k all the way to redline on some courses.
SC tends to give its big "bang" from 1500 to 3k before everything else catches up (except, well, I guess most of the turbo systems these days that make as much or more torque than the Pettit pretty much everywhere).
I don't know, I guess the best thing to do would be to look at the throttle vs. RPM requirements and how much power is required and then look at the dyno comparison (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628) for starters.

the thing about a turbo is the misconception that you get a crazy jump in power and the car is uncontrollable. If you're able to maintain 3-4k rpm and above, your boost will be consistent (with a boost controller), and thus your power delivery as well.

From what ive seen/read/heard... i can go either turbo or sc and have a good autox/daily... I've been on the fence for a long time now, Im bringing it down to cost and reliability...

So what will i need to buy in addition to the pettit kit to make it reliable? I asked the same question to scott about the type 3, but I dont think I can spend that much knowing I couldve nearly bought another whole car. Pettit seems to have decent benefits for not too ridiculous of a cost. So i need to know what the final cost is going to be. At the rate im going through tires and things my budget is not able to take many more unexpected blows.

Everything you need comes with the kit.

As far as recommendations for mods... if you're going to compete in autocross with this car, you might want to upgrade the suspension, and maybe save up for some lighter wheels.

So what will i need to buy in addition to the pettit kit to make it reliable?

"Reliability" upgrades are the same for any form of FI. So if you didn't like the list that Scott (MazSport) gave you, then you aren't going to like the list for any system.

i want someone to make a twin charged renesis... I would if I had the means! twin screw sc for 1800-4500rpm then decouple with a magnetic clutch to reduce parsasitic loss and let a good sized turbo give me the power up top! hehehe

vw has this setup on a 1.4L 4cyl prototype, don't know if its available for sale yet

So what are the most important upgrades?
Also... noone has answered whether they can run the pettit with an aftermarket catback exhaust or not?

No upgrades are needed to run this kit as shipped/installed by Pettit. There are, however, a couple of products BHR will be releasing that will improve the kit.

You can run any exhaust you please.

I'm not busting your balls. I'm just saying that anything I say, no matter how measured or well reasoned, will be taken completely out of context in this thread.

That's because it's all your fault.

You post and we look at your Avitar and then misunderstand what you wrote!

Mu ha ha............

So what are the most important upgrades?
Also... noone has answered whether they can run the pettit with an aftermarket catback exhaust or not?

Suspension area upgrades(sways included) are probably worth taking a look at, but not required.
Nothing is required and you can run any exhaust you like.

No upgrades are needed to run this kit as shipped/installed by Pettit.

No, not to just get it to run there aren't. (Well, sorta.)
To be reliable, there are many upgrades needed.
That is true of all FI systems.

77k miles, 8k of those with the Pettit Kit. No blown motor.....yet.

I must not be trying hard enough. I'm gonna have to do something about that this year.

77k miles, 8k of those with the Pettit Kit. No blown motor.....yet.

I must not be trying hard enough. I'm gonna have to do something about that this year.

Yeah. I hadn't even hit full boost in my first 8k miles.
I'm closing in on 40k miles of boost.

So what are the most important upgrades?
Also... noone has answered whether they can run the pettit with an aftermarket catback exhaust or not?

I run my Pettit with a Borla Catback; 2K miles, no problems so far. Smooth as silk, howls like a banshee at 8 grand. I don't drive mine like I stole it or thrash the crap out of it, but it make a nice ride up the local mountain passes then purrs through city traffic with n'er a glitch.

No, not to just get it to run there aren't. (Well, sorta.)
To be reliable, there are many upgrades needed.
That is true of all FI systems.

We're all ears, Jeff.

Yeah!!.....what else will I need to make it reliable?

Yeah. I hadn't even hit full boost in my first 8k miles.
I'm closing in on 40k miles of boost, and I'm only on my third engine..

fixed.

Yeah!!.....what else will I need to make it reliable?

Pretty much all the same stuff for every FI installation - bigger injectors, bigger rad, new fuel pump/filter assembly, engine bay ducting, etc.

Is this a "need" or a "bling"? And does it depend on how you drive? My Pettit system is smooth as an electic motor right now. I don't drive it like I stole it - just drive it. Use the boost when I need it.

I've modded EFI motors for years now and never had to up the injectors as long as my ECU had a good map. Heat from the extra power, that's another story, but depends on how how hard you drive. Is "reliability" relative to how hard the car is thrashed?

I've modded EFI motors for years now and never had to up the injectors as long as my ECU had a good map. Heat from the extra power, that's another story, but depends on how how hard you drive. Is "reliability" relative to how hard the car is thrashed?

Then you haven't been asking much from the motor.
The factory injectors on the 6-port are good for just about 300 - 330 crank HP. If that is all you want (about 260 - 270 at the wheels), then you are a member of a fairly lonely club.

Then you haven't been asking much from the motor.
The factory injectors on the 6-port are good for just about 300 - 330 crank HP. If that is all you want (about 260 - 270 at the wheels), then you are a member of a fairly lonely club.


:yelrotflm

You must mean the "common sense" club. I have to desire to make an idiot of myself by grenading an overboosted engine trying to race a V8 'stang and then trying to pass it off as an accomplishment in print. :whipping:

While I'm sure everyone here appreciates your experience by attrition (I certainly do: "40,000 boosted miles in 3 motors), since the conversation centers around "reliability" with the Pettit kit, I fail to see where fitting larger injectors to a motor in a reasonable state of tune is going to improve "reliability". However, it's dead certain you'll have some smartass remark to explain it. I'm looking forward to it personally. It would be stunningly refreshing to hear you dispense useful information to everyone here without whipping out your dick.

You must have glossed right over my previous statements about "live-at-home momma's boys living vicariously through their avatars."

You must mean the "common sense" club. I have to desire to make an idiot of myself by grenading an overboosted engine trying to race a V8 'stang and then trying to pass it off as an accomplishment in print.

I laugh when I read stuff like this on the forum. He's been honest about his rx-8 experience, both the good and the bad. You fault him for telling you why something isn't ideal, and then you fault him for telling you the truth on why he blew an engine. He could have said anything and no one would be the wiser.


"reliability" with the Pettit kit, I fail to see where fitting larger injectors to a motor in a reasonable state of tune is going to improve "reliability". However, it's dead certain you'll have some smartass remark to explain it. I'm looking forward to it personally. It would be stunningly refreshing to hear you dispense useful information to everyone here without whipping out your dick.

I'm now running similar numbers to his, and just about every other turbo kit available for the rx-8 does well over 300. Yet all we hear about is how there were so many greddy turbos blowing engines from way back in the day. Do you recall that back then most greddy kits barely made 240 whp? It isn't the horse power number or PSI that determine how long your engine will last when talking about 40k worth of FI usage at our power levels. It depends on a number of factors, with tuning at the top of that list.

I won't make claims to why you're doing this, but if you own this kit and you're fine with having less acceleration than a greddy kit with 9 psi, more power to you. However don't lash out because you are trying to avoid buyer's remorse by ignoring the facts and making personal insults at others.

peace :cuddle:

While what MM said is not ideal, it's also not true. All the flashed Pettit FI'ed MT 8s(most of them, now) are at or over 300rwhp on stock fuel injectors at ~8psi.

BTW, your car looked pretty nice, but hurry up and get that hood painted.

I laugh when I read stuff like this on the forum. He's been honest about his rx-8 experience, both the good and the bad. You fault him for telling you why something isn't ideal, and then you fault him for telling you the truth on why he blew an engine. He could have said anything and no one would be the wiser.




I'm now running similar numbers to his, and just about every other turbo kit available for the rx-8 does well over 300. Yet all we hear about is how there were so many greddy turbos blowing engines from way back in the day. Do you recall that back then most greddy kits barely made 240 whp? It isn't the horse power number or PSI that determine how long your engine will last when talking about 40k worth of FI usage at our power levels. It depends on a number of factors, with tuning at the top of that list.

I won't make claims to why you're doing this, but if you own this kit and you're fine with having less acceleration than a greddy kit with 9 psi, more power to you. However don't lash out because you are trying to avoid buyer's remorse by ignoring the facts and making personal insults at others.

I love reading this stuff!!I suggest you trip over to the RX7 club forum and check out the 752RWHP Street Car(3rd Gen,Time Slips and Dyno).I suppose you guys will eventually get out of the sandbox!!

BTW, your car looked pretty nice, but hurry up and get that hood painted.

I wish I could, but having just bought so much crap recently (ignition system, clutch, flywheel, turbo, exhaust, etc) I am trying to behave like a sensible adult instead of a kid who has a pocket of quarters in an arcade.

Then you haven't been asking much from the motor.
The factory injectors on the 6-port are good for just about 300 - 330 crank HP. If that is all you want (about 260 - 270 at the wheels), then you are a member of a fairly lonely club.

Then how, good sir, are the flashed Pettit kits making 300+WHP with stock injectors??

Even still, it's probably still good advice to upgrade the injector and ignition systems, although I wouldn't call it a necessity to break 300whp.

If anyone's interested in seeing the Pettit kit in action, there will be two equipped RX-8's autocrossing at BCC in Palm Bay next month.

You must have glossed right over my previous statements about "live-at-home momma's boys living vicariously through their avatars."

Yeah, I must have. Sorry. I don't really put much effort into reading stuff you type.
At least I haven't yet put you on ignore like poor Bastage.

Then how, good sir, are the flashed Pettit kits making 300+WHP with stock injectors??

I dunno. Haven't seen an actual dyno of Pettit user yet.

1 290cc injector. 2 380cc injectors. 2100cc of fuel for the whole motor.
85% maximum duty cycle. BSFC of .55.
Crankshaft power potential = 309 HP.
A BSFC of .55 is pretty optimistic for a rotary. But, whoever might understand the math in this probably already knows that.

MM, Bastage was playing nice.:)

Really? Damn, I missed it. Well, thank him for me.
I guess that's the bad part about the ignore list.

85% maximum duty cycle. .

why only 85% MM ?

Injectors heat up pretty quickly above 85% and their actual open duration becomes unstable.
There are people that will tune for 100% duty cycle. It is a really bad idea.
I consider 90% too high.
Fuel rail pressures become unstable from one injector to the next as well.

The OE calibration for the RX-8's injectors never take them over 80%.
The primaries peak at 80% right around 5500 RPM and actually go down from there to 55%.
The secondaries climb to 80% by redline.
The P2s don't even turn on until 6250 and never see more than 35%.

My own tuning efforts have always been complicated by this restriction. I have had successive tuning iterations place my secondaries near 100% and I've had to continually look to push the load onto the other injectors to avoid this because the A/Fs are unpredictable if the secondaries go above 85%.

Injectors heat up pretty quickly above 85% and their actual open duration becomes unstable.
There are people that will tune for 100% duty cycle. It is a really bad idea.
I consider 90% too high.
Fuel rail pressures become unstable from one injector to the next as well.

Perhaps Petit get away with more because the hp curve is so linear ? IE they only hit 300hp for a brief moment at the top of the curve .

Two, if you wanna play that game I have street cars to show you that make 700 h.p. look like Tonka toys. The run 7s and 8s in the 1/4 mile on 93 octane fuel and do so while being street legal. What's your point here?

With 2 rotors?please show me.

My only point was to take a shot at a member of the MM Sychophants Club(of which you are also a card carrying member!)

Leave the supercharger guys alone why don't ye---they are happy with their choice perhaps.

Charles, if I upgraded my injectors, would I need to have a different tune or would the duty cycles just stay more consistant?

Zen, MM's commentary about being in a "lonely club" were simply made to illustrate the point that people ALWAYS want more once they start modding their cars and that the h.p. pursuit never ends.

When it comes to evaluating someone via "blown" engines, be careful which side of that argument you choose.......

Yeah, Charles, I agree to a point; however, you and I both know that more power=more heat=more stress=more breakage. For myself, 300 on the ground (or even 20HP on either side of it) is a lot to handle on public roads with the DSC off in the tight stuff I like to unspool in. I also know the Renesis has it's limits based on apex seal and eccentric shaft bearing life. However: I've found that not breaking my toys so as to be able to enjoy them more to be greatly more rewarding than running them to the ragged engine and then loosing them to a costly rebuild.

My comments to Jeff stand; however, I do recognize his willingness to finance the research to see just how far this package can be pushed, not to mention the depth of his experience. Yes, he's quite a tuner, or parts changer, not sure which, but I'll be the first to admit he's been places I sure as hell don't want to go. I'm just not going to swallow the sarcasm along with it.

I may blow an engine, yes, but it won't be because I wanted to twist it past its tolerance, and not because I wanted to be a street racer against a small block V-8. The Fast and the Furry-Assed was just a movie. Just because I have 300-ish hp doesn't mean I feel like I need to use it; I just don't have to rip it so hard to get the 200 or so I use most of the time. I don't consider myself 'lonely' by any stretch. I like to think of it as smart.

By the way Jeff, in all seriousness, thanks for the thought process on the injectors. I'll run it by some of "my people".

I know it is a band aid but until the learning process has regurgitated actual results a little more definite:
i plan on --
1- water meth injection --for detonation purposes only---not to be able to tune on the edge a further
2- rev cut at 8K
3- pulling the room fuse every day--trims add up.
oldscdragger

What's the deal with the room fuse anyway? Isn't one of its functions to build long-term fuel trims for better drivability??

Room fuse clears the long term fuel trims---ipulling it insures that the trims dont interfer with the tune you have.
oscd

Yeah, Charles, I agree to a point; however, you and I both know that more power=more heat=more stress=more breakage. For myself, 300 on the ground (or even 20HP on either side of it) is a lot to handle on public roads with the DSC off in the tight stuff I like to unspool in. I also know the Renesis has it's limits based on apex seal and eccentric shaft bearing life. However: I've found that not breaking my toys so as to be able to enjoy them more to be greatly more rewarding than running them to the ragged engine and then loosing them to a costly rebuild.

Although, I really dislike getting involved in useless internet forum arguments about what is better and who is the best, I have to agree with the above quoted statement.

To me it really does not matter if my rotary engine is FI (Turbo or SC), NA or nitrous. It is all about enjoying what I like and at the same time enjoying it for a long time. I enjoy driving my 13B Bridge Port R100 as much as I like driving my RX8 SC. Two different animals but the same heart, a Rotary engine. The reason for choosing to SC my RX8 instead of Turbo had to do with several factors. Installation simplicity (I like to do my own work), less expensive than a turbo, 300 whp ultimate goal and being able to talk strait to the manufacturer and not to a “don’t know much about rotaries but I talk like I do” sales representative.

The bottom line. I love rotary powered vehicles since I was kid (born and raise in Puerto Rico home of the most powerful/fastest rotaries and 4 cylinder imports in the world). Love the sound, the uniqueness, the power you can squeeze out of a 12A/13B/20B/26B and the nauseating gases of a catless exhaust rotary amongst other things. I love to share my very limited knowledge with other rotary enthusiast and shame on those who benefit otherwise. I hope that Mazda does not stop making/importing rotaries like they did with the RX7 so many generations to come can experience it like I did. :eyetwitch

BTW

Word of mouth, both positive and negative, is a powerful component in building a successful business. If you stand 100% behind your product, then don’t worry about your competitors and particularly don’t take advantage of your customers. The internet is a powerful way to disseminate both the positive and mostly the negative.

BTW

Word of mouth, both positive and negative, is a powerful component in building a successful business. If you stand 100% behind your product, then don’t worry about your competitors and particularly don’t take advantage of your customers. The internet is a powerful way to disseminate both the positive and mostly the negative.


Juan, why did you feel this needed to be said?[/QUOTE]

They know who they are and I hope they get their act strait. Not for me (I have nothing to gain or loose) only speak from experience. My father used to own a huge private automobile repair business (10 mechanics, 7 lifts, mostly by appointment only due to customer volume) but when money became more important than customer service, business went down hill and bankruptcy became inevitable.

A lot of this banter is probably a result of two things: 1) the impersonality of intenet communications that removes immediacy of contact and nonverbal cues from messages and 2) perspective. Jeff, Charles, and others have lived and breathed this motor for quite a while, from what I gather. The Renesis is new to me, but tuning and motors are not. Shinka admittedly will do anything for carbon fiber :Eyecrazy: Morkus, uh, well, is Morkus:confused: . This forum is dominated by a few very expert people, a few of which come across in reasonable evaluation as pricks. Don't be surprised by pushback from noobs who don't appreciate being bitchslapped just because they're noobs. Screw that. If some people get off on the powertrip of banging around newcomers, well, here's your KY; doesn't do much to maintain the purpose of the thread, IMHO. None of this would be around if some very expert people at Pettit hadn't put their money and reputation into a fantastic product. Mazsport should take a lesson:spank: Here's to you Cam and Moon:beer05:

On the other hand, I don't mind wading into an internet hornet's nest to get the info I need. This place is a wealth of info, and Jeff is a goldmine, once you get past the goatee and the tiny dog.

And before you get all worked up, I have tiny dogs, too.

But no goatee :lol:

That's one area that I have been in much disagreement with MM on; personal preference. My belief is that the Big Joke our creator played on us(besides the one about men and women having difficulties with getting along:)) was in having several different solutions to a perceived problem or, perhaps, the idea that a problem may or may not exist at all in the first place. I have discovered that the best I can do is pass along what I have learned, and why/how, and allow others to make their own minds up in the process.

The idea here is to understand what the engineering intentions were in the first place with any given product/item and deciding for ourselves how far we want to push the headroom. That's one area where you and MM agree; he doesn't like to push limits as much as I am willing, despite how it may look with wrecked engines and all, so he tends to suggest parts upgrades while I take it more on a case-by-case basis. Plus, if there is a way to incrementalize the upgrade process to avoid a massive outlay of cash, I'll devise a scheme like that for others.

Yeah, I agree, what problem? I choose a supercharger because I wanted a supercharger. No dis on turbos, I just have loved blowers since I saw Mad Max. I also loved the RX8 in Titanium Gray since it first came out. Now I have a supercharged RX8.

It's like a threesome, or at least something along the lines of Jeff's avatars.

But no goatee :lol:

Mine's gone, too. Got bored with it.

BTW - Its a "soul patch", apparently. Not a goatee. Someone made that distinction for me around here in one thread or another.
For me, it just started out as one less place to shave.
At my age, those places are starting to become scarce.

I think that, in general, if people around here stopped focusing on second-guessing people's intentions, tone and "attitude" and just payed attention to the data, there would be a lot less e-thugery.
I realize, of course, that e-thugery is all that some people have, so that might be asking a lot of a few.

PS...my dad has a soul patch... and hes 78yr...of course its gray...and he calls it a "womb broom"

:D:

Flavor Saver.

Flavor Saver.

The avatar, :naughty: :naughty: .

24/7

hey..thats my dad...not me!!:lol:

Whenever I read things like this I get nervous 'cuz back in my "good 'ole daze" I used to not be able to remember things I said and, inevitably, ended up pissing somebody off. I no longer have those problems but I still revert back to that nervous reaction every now and then. Thanks for the explanation. I now know it wasn't directed at me because I haven't collected a dime in profit from anyone yet!:lol2:

The irony in what you say about profits versus customer service is that by taking care of people, the money takes care of itself. That's why faith in the future is so important.

Yeah, hurry up why don't ya? What am I paying you for anyways?!?

I think that, in general, if people around here stopped focusing on second-guessing people's intentions, tone and "attitude" and just payed attention to the data, there would be a lot less e-thugery.
I realize, of course, that e-thugery is all that some people have, so that might be asking a lot of a few.

:kiss:

Yeah, Jeff, that would be a good place to start. Glad to see you're on board!:lol2:

PS...my dad has a soul patch... and hes 78yr...of course its gray...and he calls it a "womb broom"

:D:


:eyetwitch:

Yeah, Jeff, that would be a good place to start. Glad to see you're on board!

I've always been on board. My posts are by far the most abused, misunderstood, despised, misinterpreted and maligned of any substantiative observations made.

More effort is put in effect to malign me personally over what I post than to refute the actual data.

Fact is, people don't like being called out for being ignorant, parochial, dogmatic or just plain stupid - so it is apparently easier to simply attack my character than deal with reality. Especially when the subject is the title of this thread.

You, of all the people living in glass houses around here, should know to withhold stones.

I've always been on board. My posts are by far the most abused, misunderstood, despised, misinterpreted and maligned of any substantiative observations made.

More effort is put in effect to malign me personally over what I post than to refute the actual data.

Fact is, people don't like being called out for being ignorant, parochial, dogmatic or just plain stupid - so it is apparently easier to simply attack my character than deal with reality. Especially when the subject is the title of this thread.

You, of all the people living in glass houses around here, should know to withhold stones.


How many times do I have to tell you!

You post, we read, then see your avitar and then don't understand what you said.

It's plain and simple!

Ha ha... Do you think maybe I'm right?

Someone has a rock! Yall remember Ernest T from the Andy griffin show(you youngun's may not)---now he could do some damage with a rock!!
oscd

Opie was pretty good with a slingshot if I remember correctly.

I always loved the bit about a ratio.


Griffith: I was reading here just the other day where there's somewhere like 400 needy boys in this county alone, or one and a half boys per square mile.

Opie: There is?

Griffith: There sure is.

Opie: I never seen one, Pa.

Griffith: Never seen one what?

Opie: A half a boy.

Griffith: Well, it's not really a half a boy. It's a ratio.

Opie: Horatio who?

Griffith: Not Horatio, a ratio. It's mathematics. Arithmetic. Look, now, Opie, just forget that part of it. Forget the part about the half a boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty hard to forget a thing like that, Pa.

Griffith: Well, try.

Opie wan knopie was my favorite.

I ran into him once on my motorcycle.

Nice guy...

I ran into him once on my motorcycle.

Did you help him back to his feet and apologize?

Did you help him back to his feet and apologize?

LOL!! No wonder I get distracted from the task in hand...

Cheers,
Hymee.

I've always been on board. My posts are by far the most abused, misunderstood, despised, misinterpreted and maligned of any substantiative observations made.

More effort is put in effect to malign me personally over what I post than to refute the actual data.

Fact is, people don't like being called out for being ignorant, parochial, dogmatic or just plain stupid - so it is apparently easier to simply attack my character than deal with reality. Especially when the subject is the title of this thread.

You, of all the people living in glass houses around here, should know to withhold stones.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's like Atilla the Hun questioning your character for fighting back against the Mongol hordes.

Now that I got the use of that "ignor" thing I can come back to these threads with out having my blood boil.

If I understand previous postings correctly you are telling me that I need to get new injectors in order to make my objective hp? Ok, not really a big problem (if such a thing is available) but what will be the side effects? What else do I need to consider? Keep in mind that mine is a 4port.

Room fuse clears the long term fuel trims---ipulling it insures that the trims dont interfer with the tune you have.
oscd

At the risk of sounding MM'ish (:lol: ), if thats the case I think Pettit needs to be spending more time developing the flash. The fuel trims should be helping you acheive your desired fuel trim and not working against you.... :eyetwitch

It's called "Martyr Syndrome".

"He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.

So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart.
We'll miss him.

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all. "

Gotta love Tool.

Racing Beat has a suggestion close to that on their website.

they mention small LTFT's fuel trims building.

If they have the correct fuel tables and lambda targets loaded, building small LTFT's should be celebrated and not continually cleared as they should be helping you meet your lambda targets - they are a results of countless things changing like fuel injector cleanliness, maf cleanliness, fuel quality, intake and exhaust conditions, hell battery voltage can even effect the fuel injection.

it seems odd to me that there is a need to get rid of the fuel trims

Our pcm/maf/wideband is too dang smart and is a ganging up on us. This tuning is progressing---it aint easy.
Someone shared and idea with me. Just hook a switch up to the room fuse connector and whenever you go to start the car -push the button 1st-wait just a second then start. Sweet!
I am about ready to say --chunkit! Put a cable TB on , a haltech and a straight pipe! JK.
oscd

i said this in the other thread but ill repeat it. i believe what you have here is an incorrect understanding of what is written on the RB site. That whole paragraph is talking about the process of creating their tune. the mention of clearing the trims for track use is about the stock untuned car. ill post the response from JM when i get it.

Our pcm/maf/wideband is too dang smart and is a ganging up on us.


i'm confused by this statement as the maf and wbo2 sensors are just sensors... no intelligence to them. Is it being said there is a problem with accuracy or repeatability?

no just a mis wording of a post- he's still talking about the trim

the pcm/maf and o2 sensor talking to each other is what causes the trims to occur.
is that not correct?
oscd

Now that I got the use of that "ignor" thing I can come back to these threads with out having my blood boil.

Glad to see it working for you!

If I understand previous postings correctly you are telling me that I need to get new injectors in order to make my objective hp? Ok, not really a big problem (if such a thing is available) but what will be the side effects? What else do I need to consider? Keep in mind that mine is a 4port.

Well, that depends on your HP objective. Your 4-port has two injectors per rotor - a 290cc and a 480cc. That is 1540cc of fuel or ~37 lb/hr which translates to roughly 250 - 270 HP at the crank (depending on how hard you are willing to push them and what you believe the BSFC is on the Renesis).
So, if you are looking to put down more than 220 or so at the wheels, you will need to upgrade.
The actual upgrade is relatively easy and cheap and fairly easy to tune on the Int-X or the EMU. I don't know what the Pettit flash can accommodate.

At the risk of sounding MM'ish (:lol: ), if thats the case I think Pettit needs to be spending more time developing the flash.

OH MY GOD!! You evil perverted goat rapist! You should die right now for saying such filthy things!


it seems odd to me that there is a need to get rid of the fuel trims

+1

What seems to be happening is that the re-flash concept and the LTFTs are two different things in the factory PCM. The theory is that the LTFTs want to try and fight the re-flash. That's my guess, anyway.

And therein lies the rub.
My intuition tells me that the RB flash does NOT address the lambda tables. It merely changes the injector targets or, even worse, the airflow targets.
It LTFT is fighting the flash, than, as I stated elsewhere, its merely an AFM modifier like the S-AFC.

That's kinda like saying your eyes and ears communicate with each other. The PCM "sees" varying voltage values from all the sensors independently(like our brains). The rest is explined quite well on RB's website. I think they recently update it a bit because JM defined what "hysteresis" means and he didn't do that before.

Good retort.

I'll have to go look at RB's WEB site. I haven't been there in a while.

OH MY GOD!! You evil perverted goat rapist! You should die right now for saying such filthy things!

:icon_no2: ...that's just twisted and funny.:lol2:

Glad to see it working for you!



OH MY GOD!! You evil perverted goat rapist! You should die right now for saying such filthy things!




i prefer alpaca's over goats... much more upscale and they make a nice woorbaling sound


I wonder if the placement of the MAF sensor is causing some problems. MAFs need a constant velocity profile (so it either needs to be laminar or completely turbulent... turbulent is actually perferred). The placement a few inches behind the filter would be in a transitional flow which is rather unpredictable.

Do they use any flow straightener screens like the OEM intake has?

No flow straightener and the MAF tube is very short and has diameter changing steps at both ends.

hmm...

The position would make me worry with no flow straightener, ideally you would want to be a good 3-5 pipe diameters upstream and downstream of anything funky without a flow modifier.

The diameter changing steps may or may not be acceptable depending on the application as sometimes it can force a nice looking turbulent flow pattern (but is very tricky to accomplish). For the record, a nice turbulent pattern has a velocity profile that looks like "]" while a laminar flow pattern looks like ")". Flow nozzles in flow measuring instruments for instance are commonly used to do this very thing - some are ramped in shape and some are square... however, to rely on that for profile adjustment i'd wager it needs to be 2-3x the length.


i'd say the setup could be suspect... at least some screens should be there to help average the flow velocities (probably before and after actually) if a maf problem is suspected.

I have been thinking about the need for a screen also.:)
The maf pipe does not have diameter changing steps at the ends as far as i know. Actually i am using the RB Revi maf pipe which is fine per Pettit.
Now before I had a car that ran well with no maf pipe screens. I have not thought about screens until it was mentioned now. Food for thought.
The system is intra dependent, skilled at multidisciplinary tasking but possibly schizophrenic. No anhedonia as i really thinks it enjoys all of this.:)
Maybe I need a trim:Eyecrazy:
oscd

ok...here comes the dumb broad remark... :lol:

i do have a screen....hopefully its the one that everyone is referring to..

it fits over the MAF tube between the end of the MAF tube and the filter...
is that the one?

hey - out of the blue question here, but has anyone here dynoed their own car to see how much power it makes?

im prolly gonna dyno mine after i come back from vacation...
thing is, it will be on a mustang dyno...

which runs a little lower than a dyno jet

I recently ran my engine with no screens, and one screen in either spot, and then two screens. I found the engine to have the least amount of trouble when the screen was closest to the MAF sensor.

i think mine is pretty close to the MAF

How long do people think the MAF tube should be?

here is a pic of what mine looks like at the present...
we fabricated this one from the factory box...

you can actually see where the screen is and the tube doesnt really have diameter changes per se...

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8805/pc280166vb5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

thing is, it will be on a mustang dyno...

which runs a little lower than a dyno jet

Ahh, that old chestnut.
It only dynos less than a corrected DynoJet. (Which is something FI people do to inflate their numbers.)
True, uncorrected numbers from a DynoJet look just like the ones from a DynaPack and a Mustang give or take 2% or so.
I did my runs on a DynaPack - which is also reported to deliver numbers that are significantly lower than a DynoJet. I don't think anyone believes my numbers are low.

How long do people think the MAF tube should be?

Twice its diameter its diameter is optimal. 1.5 times its diameter is really the minimum for an accurate reading.

Charlie, I have re-read RB's info on that and I don't think I am misunderstanding what they are saying at all. I am looking at option 1 wherein JM talks about disconnecting the O2 sensor, pulling the room fuse, and reconnecting the fuse. In that example, he never mentions re-connecting the O2 sensor but does mention that the trim tables will never build and you'll get a CEL. In option 2, he mentions warming up the engine and resetting the PCM by pulling the fuse, then heading to the track. My understanding there is that in open-loop mode, such as in a racing context, the trims won't have time to build(theoretically, anyway), and afterward one can drive their car home and the tables will build at that time.

I wonder what his response will be and I look forward to reading it.

That's the way I understand it. I read it several times when it was first posted.

Funny you should mention that. I am presently turning over in my little brain a way to incorparate the RB filter/horn/1 screen and the maf pipe onto my set up. Lets see if wide band readings change. (shouldnt) but hey no harm in looking.
ray sending you a PM.
OSCD

Twice its diameter its diameter is optimal. 1.5 times its diameter is really the minimum for an accurate reading.

Jeff - when you're talking length, is it overall length of the housing or the distance from the mouth of the housing to the MAF sensor, or does this make a difference?

Twice its diameter its diameter is optimal. 1.5 times its diameter is really the minimum for an accurate reading.


Good rule of thumb but also dependant on what is upstream of the maf.

If there are maf problems I'd suggest trying to lengthen the scace between the filter and maf, using a straightening screen, and or incorporating an airhorn or one of the filters on the market that includes air straighteners (i think apexi has something like that off the top of my head)

Maybe, but there is no way I'm putting an air horn on my setup. I plan on using a screen at the mouth of the MAF tube if necessary but I was hoping that by choosing the proper length and size for the MAF tube that I would not need it.

Jeff - when you're talking length, is it overall length of the housing or the distance from the mouth of the housing to the MAF sensor, or does this make a difference?

Length from the inlet to the outlet with the MAF centered and perpendicular to the flor.
As r0tor notes, what happens before and after can affect what the MAF sees.
Necking it down before the MAF with a smooth transition will have a less adverse effect than dropping the diameter afterwards.

As long as the air horn plays "La Cucaracha", what's the problem?

Seriously, T, you may not have anything to worry about as the harsh edge on the intake is well away from the MAF sensor.

I was thinking more along the lines of the General Lee. :lol2:

I think the revi pipe/filter/horn can be made to fit. and run one screen .I think I am headed that way.
WHo all have widebands(MM I know you have). I am installing one VERY soon--recommendations? Innovate? Summit wideband, AEM? What values are Pettit people seeing?
Anyone heard of Rick Engman?
oscd

Length from the inlet to the outlet with the MAF centered and perpendicular to the flor.
As r0tor notes, what happens before and after can affect what the MAF sees.
Necking it down before the MAF with a smooth transition will have a less adverse effect than dropping the diameter afterwards.

From my fluid dynamics days a good rule of thumb for fully developed laminar flow in a pipe is a Length to Diameter ratio of ~8:1. Based on that to get smooth flow across the MAF sensor (I assume this would be the most accurate) in a 3" pipe you would want 24" ahead of the MAF. That's probably why the screen is there, to artificially smooth out the flow ahead of the MAF since 24" is a bit impractical.

thats good info shaun keep it coming--with the flash we need to pay attention to the maf
oscd

I think the revi pipe/filter/horn can be made to fit. and run one screen .I think I am headed that way.
WHo all have widebands(MM I know you have). I am installing one VERY soon--recommendations? Innovate? Summit wideband, AEM? What values are Pettit people seeing?
Anyone heard of Rick Engman?
oscd

im using an autometer cobalt digital wideband..nuthin fancy...but its easy to read.

shaun - r u saying that using an AEM CAI (or something similar) would help with increasing the distance to the MAF?

I've got an Innovate LC-1. I will be mounting mine in the catback to hopefully keep it from burning up.

aem uego here. mounted in the midpipe. No issues with 14k miles turbo, original sensor is OK.

I wonder if all major brand widebands are sorta created equal? AEM, Innovate, Auto Meter, Summit ,NGK etc.
Summit (about 45Miles from my home) has a digital readout wideband (bosch sensor) for $249--software etc-- all are included. looks like the Innovate one.
What a/f's are yall seeing?
oscd

All of the above WBO2S use the Bosch LSU4.2, 5-wire sensor.
So, it just comes down to features and accuracy of the driver "box".
FordMuscle compared the Innovate LM-1 (which is what I use), AEM, Dynojet, FAST, FJO, NGK, PLX & Zeitronix units against each other. The LM-1 came out on top.

The Autometer is pretty much just for show - its calibration routine sucks and they've been shown to be as much as a full point off in either direction from day to day in different ambient conditions.


What a/f's are yall seeing?


I've got more than a couple of posts with details on what your target A/Fs should be.

I wonder if all major brand widebands are sorta created equal? AEM, Innovate, Auto Meter, Summit ,NGK etc.
Summit (about 45Miles from my home) has a digital readout wideband (bosch sensor) for $249--software etc-- all are included. looks like the Innovate one.
What a/f's are yall seeing?
oscd

249 isnt bad for a wideband...mine ran me about 369

ive got my sensor on the mid pipe up front..

are all autometers create equal?
:D:

are all autometers create equal?
:D:

Yeah, unfortunately, they are to some extent.
I used to love their stuff - I had the Phantom series in my last car - but they are junk.
Especially the "high-end" WBO2S and EGT gauges.

*** Crawls under table.....***

I'll have to run some testing on my Autometer stuff and see if it really is that bad.

Why are you guys installing the wideband after the cat? (where you have one)

The cat changes things, that is why the factory WBO2 is before it. Anyway - you got a perfectly good WB02 sensor already!!

Cheers,
Hymee.

Why are you guys installing the wideband after the cat? (where you have one)

The cat changes things, that is why the factory WBO2 is before it. Anyway - you got a perfectly good WB02 sensor already!!


Who put it after the CAT? I missed that.

The OE wide-band is a bit non-linear at the rich end. It tends to read progressively less rich than reality below 11.5:1 or so.
Plus, you can't datalog it without dealing with the CAN bus stuff.
A nice voltage output is an excellent thing to throw at your engine management.
If and when your flash programmer becomes viable, then it will be a whole different can of worms.
Until then, the OE sensor is just a curiosity.

No one has done this past the cat! Where did that come from?
I think i will go with the Summit version--it appears to be the same thing Innovate has--same o2 sensor, same gauge front, even comes with the innovate software!
oscd

WHoa back up--just read MM post on the comparison study. Looks like Innovate is the way to go--so ordered one at $289.
oscd

*** Crawls under table.....***

I'll have to run some testing on my Autometer stuff and see if it really is that bad.

how would we do that?? :D:

I got your back Shinks!!!!

I'll get an Innovative one and cross compare; and let you know.

i just cant imagine that there would be that big of a difference...:Freak_ani

I would LIKE to think not - but Jeff can be annoyingly; maddeningly; emptying-my-wallet-y accurate! HAHA

I will log them both as inputs off the same Bosch sensor and run it through my software to see if

1 - They are close
2 - They are off; but a consistent amount
3 - The behavior is so random as to not be predictable

If it is either 1 or 2; they you can decide whether to live with it or not - if it is three; then I will for sure be taking mine out.

From my fluid dynamics days a good rule of thumb for fully developed laminar flow in a pipe is a Length to Diameter ratio of ~8:1. Based on that to get smooth flow across the MAF sensor (I assume this would be the most accurate) in a 3" pipe you would want 24" ahead of the MAF. That's probably why the screen is there, to artificially smooth out the flow ahead of the MAF since 24" is a bit impractical.

Turbulant flow has a more uniform velocity profile then laminar flow and it a more efficient way of transporting stuff through a pipe. Fully develped turbulant flow is fine for measureing - easier to measure accurately actually. Its transitional flow full of votexs and uneven distributions that will kill a measurement. So usually you can get away with 3-5 diameters upstream/downstream or less when using straightening devices.

Anyone heard of Rick Engman?
oscd

i have a friend named Rick Engman. met him a few years ago when another friend, Paul, introduced us. have had meals and beers since. even been to his shop where he "dabbles" in rotaries a bit. he has a fair understanding of rotaries :)

shaun - r u saying that using an AEM CAI (or something similar) would help with increasing the distance to the MAF?

A longer distance would help with more accurate MAF readings and potentially allow you to take out the screen. I don't know if, in the end, it means more power or not.

I would LIKE to think not - but Jeff can be annoyingly; maddeningly; emptying-my-wallet-y accurate! HAHA

I do what I can.

I will log them both as inputs off the same Bosch sensor

That won't work. Part of the accuracy issue is the heater control. That is where a WB does its magic. You have to have the sensor under complete control of one or the other controller.
Best test is to install both in one pipe, calibrate them at the same time and then run tests for a week or so.
Or, you can just read the article I posted above.

I had the Autometer EGT gauge - it was useless, especially in a rotary since it only read to 1600°F. I also had the Autometer narrow band (equally useless) and the Autometer wideband (worse than useless because it was misleading in a really dangerous way).

My wife says she hates you Jeff........heh

Can I get the link? - research time...

My wife says she hates you Jeff........heh

That makes me sad. Tell her "Jeg er ked af det" for me. (Pronounce it "Yie err kay ah day" or she will laugh at both of us.)

Can I get the link? - research time...

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/06/WidebandShootout/index.php

Jeff, how long ago did you have those gauges you are speaking of?

Several years back (before Autometer started manufacturing in China), except the wideband, which I used for about two days on the '8 before I sold it in '06.

That makes me sad. Tell her "Jeg er ked af det" for me. (Pronounce it "Yie err kay ah day" or she will laugh at both of us.)

Thanks - I think I'll just copy and paste it into IM - and see what happens; hope you didn't set me up!

Thanks for the link too.

hope you didn't set me up!



It just means "Sorry for that!". Kinda a Viking version of "My bad.".

I am told that they have addressed their quality issues since then.:dunno:

Yeah - they addressed them by moving manufacturing off-shore.

It just means "Sorry for that!". Kinda a Viking version of "My bad.".

She said, and I quote - "nooo I am the cool wife. stop telling ppl I am mad"


HAHAHA :lol:

But have you heard from Mederer yet?:)

yes:)

Trims can be (and are) both positive and negative. Their purpose is to account for environmental factors (humidity, etc.) that are not otherwise accounted for plus variations in the individual cars and their parts. Yes, the LTFT will be built - but it is the same with or without our flash, since the oxygen sensor never sees our street flash changes (open loop) and it is simply correcting for things that should be corrected.

Jim Mederer

thats the reply i was expecting...

trims still build like they should. They probably never touched the target lamda tables because they have an NA flash and there is no reason to change the closed-loop target values since they are all stoich -shrug-

That makes it sound like we shouldn't have to pull the room fuse.

What was the question that was asked of JM?

Does the PCM always build trims that are slightly richer than target? Even with your flash?

According to RB website they mention that the target is richer than stoich at high RPM so I suspect that's where pulling the room fuse comes in to play. I thought their NA street flash gains were based on changing that target to make it leaner and closer to stoich.

Edit: I just caught in Zoom's quote from Jim that he said he only adjusts the open loop values so he's only leaning out open loop. Hence the fuel trims don't come in to play with the RB flash correct?

with the street tune yes. the race tune does mess with some closed loop areas- but the trims still do their job

According to RB website they mention that the target is richer than stoich at high RPM so I suspect that's where pulling the room fuse comes in to play. I thought their NA street flash gains were based on changing that target to make it leaner and closer to stoich.

"target" is being thrown around to much i think...

Their flashes change the open-loop fuel tables to acheive leaner then stock afr's. They want afr's around 13-13.5 for their NA application in open loop (aka when you are pushing the engine).

In closed-loop conditions (cruising), the PCM looks at the MAF and rpms, calculates an engine load, looks at a table for that load/rpm for how much gas to squirt, then uses the WBO2 sensor as feedback and compares the actual afr it acheived to a table of "targeted" values. If its off it creates a short term fuel trim which eventually carries over into a long term fuel trim to modify the fuel table... and the long term fuel trim carries into open and closed loop conditions since its thinking if i'm off on the fuel in closed loop i'll probably be off in open loop.

multiply that a table grouping for differnt gears and different engine temps and you have the modern day convoluted engine management system.

Racing Beat probably did not have to change the closed-loop target table because of their NA application where everything is pretty much stoich. This is not the case with fored induction applications where you can not be in boost and at stoich at the same time and you will reach boost at throttle positions the OEM tune is trying to be in closed loop mode. So for this reason the closed loop "target" tables have to be modified.

If the target tables are properly modified, the fuel trims build to keep it into the tune you want. So fuel trims should be helping you and not being reset.

If the target tables are properly modified, the fuel trims build to keep it into the tune you want. So fuel trims should be helping you and not being reset.

Agreed. I think you hit it on the head with "if the target tables are properly modified." My understanding is the OEM targets are detuned to help save cat. life instead of best power.

Are there any Pettit owners with a dyno plot?
I want to start swapping out the plots in the "Dyno Comparison" thread with owner graphs instead of shop graphs.
It will be more representative of the typical outcomes that way.
Thanks.

Are there any Pettit owners with a dyno plot?
I want to start swapping out the plots in the "Dyno Comparison" thread with owner graphs instead of shop graphs.
It will be more representative of the typical outcomes that way.
Thanks.

Anyone? Pretty-please!?!

Who put it after the CAT? I missed that.

The OE wide-band is a bit non-linear at the rich end. It tends to read progressively less rich than reality below 11.5:1 or so.
Plus, you can't datalog it without dealing with the CAN bus stuff.
A nice voltage output is an excellent thing to throw at your engine management.
If and when your flash programmer becomes viable, then it will be a whole different can of worms.
Until then, the OE sensor is just a curiosity.


As did I miss this resonse from you. There was at least one mention of it a few pages back in this post (http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2260570&postcount=1197).

Does "less rich" mean lean? Is that like in air traffic control speak they use the term "negative" as a short word meaning "no"? LOL! (OK - I understand it is that way so not to be confused with "go". But it is still a funny anecdote.)

Excuse me for forgetting how easy it is for me to read WB02 since I have already done the hard work on the CAN bus stuff! To some extent it is already viable because sCANalyser logs it anyway - I just don't provide a really cool graphing tool -yet. Excel seems to work OK for now, but that is something I want to improve after I get the pro tuner done.

The other thing is the "than reality" bit. It all depends on which reality is considered to be really the real reality :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

Anyone? Pretty-please!?!

Why on earth would anyone want to know how much power they're making?

So we can bragg to all the piston heads and Honda Civic ricers.

The other thing is the "than reality" bit. It all depends on which reality is considered to be really the real reality :)



Well, as compared to external, independent WBO2S.
Having actually compared the OE sensor on several cars via Scanalyzer to a variety of third-party systems (including a Horriba), the OE starts to show progressively less lean than the numbers from the external systems as the values go below RBT.

Random Breath Test?? Bugger - I don't know that one.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Rotary Beeping Thing.

Its a mazda internal measurement tool.

rich best torque - I feel so clever now :lol:

Really BIG Tata's!!!! :Eyecrazy:

Save The Tata's
Od

Just spoke to Cam @ Pettit and he knows his stuff and I love how he has the No bullshit type style in sales. I spoke to him about my car and he wouldn't even take my deposit because he didn't know how long it would take until he would have the PCM Flash for the Auto's. He is currently working on one as we speak but that would be the 6 Speed auto and I got the lonely 4 Port/Speed auto. So I can't wait until he gets the PCM flash done for my car, I know moon ran it with Int X but that is just not worth the $1600 for it seeing how Hymee is going to bring out his product! Well anyways Cam Keep my posted so I HOPEFULLY I can get this in my 8 for the summer ;D

Hey guys, I just got my front subframe in today so the reasembly has officialy started. I was asked for my ECU, a 4 speed auto so it can be worked on. The plans to get my car together enough to be safly drivable for testing for the time being. Give it a few more months. Pettit hasnt forgoten about the 4 speeds. I havent gone into work there latly cause its so hard lookin at other 8s and not driving mine, kinda makes me sick to my stomac but I still pop my head in there from time to time. I also have another project in the works non rotory related though.

Hey guys, I just got my front subframe in today so the reasembly has officialy started. I was asked for my ECU, a 4 speed auto so it can be worked on. The plans to get my car together enough to be safly drivable for testing for the time being. Give it a few more months. Pettit hasnt forgoten about the 4 speeds. I havent gone into work there latly cause its so hard lookin at other 8s and not driving mine, kinda makes me sick to my stomac but I still pop my head in there from time to time. I also have another project in the works non rotory related though.


Hey Moon! Glad to hear your 8 is on the mend! Just got my new MAF tube from Cam, everything running great!

Seriously dude - watch out for those washers :lol:

Save The Tata's
Od

:lol: LOL!! :lol:

Why? Are they becoming extinct? I didn't realize you were a social/political activist, OD!:lol2:

Charles,

He means this... http://www.savethetatas.com

I'm back for some more info.

Exhaust this time.

I don't want to run a midpipe. To me, the compromise of the excess smell, (as my car is mostly a daily driver) isn't worth the small power gain on a rare fun day at the track. Would there be any drawbacks/concerns (other than less power) with just running a high flo cat with the Pettit SC? (melting, clogging, etc.?)

Also, with catbacks...I like the MS, but haven't ruled out RB or Borla yet. My question is if you add a hi flo cat to an aftermarket catback, it gets louder...If you add a midpipe, it tends to be even louder. For those who had an aftermarket catback, how much louder did it get when you added the Pettit SC? I know it's subjective, but just an idea is all I'm looking for. I saw one video on youtube with the Pettit SC and an RB, but it was recorded in a parking garage so...hard to tell or compare to others.

I guess I also need to consider weight (RB I think is heavier). Borla and RB are 3" piping...not sure about MS. Any opinions for FI application?

just an FYI.....im running with a midpipe and borla...i HAD that smell you refer to when i was using the x for management...but since the flash i dont have that smell..
im not sure that just having a catback and adding the blower makes it louder per se....for me, i just got a different sound coming from the engine bay...

of course, when i took out the cat, then the exhaust is much louder....
you also have to take into account how you drive the car...in WOT in a low gear its extremely loud...

hope this helps..

:lol: LOL!! :lol:



Charles,

He means this... http://www.savethetatas.com

my son got me a "save the tatas" tee shirt....

its pink with white lettering...rather cute and a worthy cause indeed!!

Hey pat! Thanks for the response.

How would the flash eliminate the midpipe smell? If that's true, I would be interested in the dual resonated midpipe (Mazsports maybe). Anyone else scentless?

Aren't you at the Auto Show today? You workin' the laptop from there?

Hey pat! Thanks for the response.

How would the flash eliminate the midpipe smell? If that's true, I would be interested in the dual resonated midpipe (Mazsports maybe). Anyone else scentless?

Aren't you at the Auto Show today? You workin' the laptop from there?

The int x has to run a very rich idle apparently while the flash would be pretty much stock AFRs

Are you saying richer than stock?

Hey pat! Thanks for the response.

How would the flash eliminate the midpipe smell? If that's true, I would be interested in the dual resonated midpipe (Mazsports maybe). Anyone else scentless?

Aren't you at the Auto Show today? You workin' the laptop from there?

na!!...not at the show today...im packin for a cruise..leaving at 4am tomorrow...
you could dust my car off for me!!!

:kiss:

Are you saying richer than stock?

when i had the x it was definitely idling richer than oem

With leaner AFR's at idle, how are your starts now? (Rougher idle? stalling?) I guess if the flash sets AFR's at about the stock settings, your starts are probably still fine.

I thought midpipe smell was a universal thing. "You have a midpipe...It's gonna give you some odor." I understand what you are saying about achieving less HC's through tuning richer or leaner, but then why is it such an understood/accepted generalization about midpipes? Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled if the Pettit flash greatly decreases it because I could just get a midpipe (no emmissions here). I assume the smell is still present though, just to a lesser degree.

starts are much better with the flash..idle is perfect...
i was even able to go to a remote start set up after the flash....
using the x made start ups a little more tricky....especially with the change in temp (geographics)....at idle my AFRs were around 10 with the x...with the flash they around 13..big difference....:)

some times the idle AFs are 14...ive seen 14s...

i really need someone to ride shotgun when im doing WOT in 2nd, 3rd,etc so i can get an accurate read...

on the highway doing around 75 in 6th they run 14-15

this is going to get interesting.
oscd

You need to get a logger to record your A/F...won't have to try and watch you little screen :)

well since we are (a lot of us) now a MAF driven system I though it would be VERY important to have good air to the intake.
Yall have already seen my RB maf pipe /horn/filter mod and NOW I am pleased to say ---I have fitted the RB CA supplier (the cai part that goes ahead of the revi) part to the front so now i can gather all that good cold dense air to expose my whimpering little maf too. I had to do a good bit of redo on the a/w intercooler hoses but now she fits like a charm. Tight but its all good. Now working on a little heat shield for the engine bay side.
oscd

I know this is going to be hard but...........

post some pictures please

Oh God No---not again.:)
oscd

that is a good mod OD well done - Pics please :)

Yall are killing me.
od

Wait until you see how I have the Mazsport's new coils mounted---it will be really sweet---really sweet.
oscd

Anyone going to that Deal's Gap rotary rally?

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=130025

I'm planning a trip up to TN/NC/VA that weekend, so the wife and I may stop by and check it out.

You need to get a logger to record your A/F...won't have to try and watch you little screen :)

suggestions on a logger?

Use Chuck's Hymee.

+1 :)

Google crecorder--very interesting ob2 data collector(x 24 hrs) for $80.00

Stage 2 with stock ECU reflashed (February 19, 2008 install by Pettit)
This chart shows a funny dip in the curve, I have spoke with another local owner who does not have this dip.
My blower drive belt was also loose in this run, I suspect it was causing the dip @~6k
Or, it may have been the Citgo gas I was forced to stop for on the way there.
(Claimed to be 93 octane)
I will post another chart later, when I can afford (and make time for) another dyno charge.
This chart is NOT an official chart from Pettit.
I found this Dyno near where I live. ($80.00 for two pulls) :pat:
And no I did not let them spin my lil baby to 9K while stationary; though I do "shift at the 9K beep" many times when driving.

APV opens up 2 additional ports at 6000 rpm. You usually see a dip at those point.

Are you MT or AT?

APV opens up 2 additional ports at 6000 rpm. You usually see a dip at those point.

Are you MT or AT?
2007 Sport 6 speed MT

Java,

Thanks for sharing. Excuse me for asking, and my ignorance, but where is the other fiffy horsepower? I thought this unit was touted as 300? Perhaps the last 1000 RPM I guess.

Cheers,
C# ;)

This post has nothing to do with the hp#. I just wanted to point out the obvious belt slippage. Not only is it consistently losing boost above 6k, the boost prior to that is inconsistent as well.

This post has nothing to do with the hp#. I just wanted to point out the obvious belt slippage. Not only is it consistently losing boost above 6k, the boost prior to that is inconsistent as well.

there is ~1 psi boost increase at 6,200 rpm, and that's the point where the hp/tq drop and afr's increase.

run #2 seems solid. No weird jumps at 4k rpm

Java,

Thanks for sharing. Excuse me for asking, and my ignorance, but where is the other fiffy horsepower? I thought this unit was touted as 300? Perhaps the last 1000 RPM I guess.

Cheers,
C# ;)

is that a brown stain I see up your arm Hymee ? :lol:

Java,

Thanks for sharing. Excuse me for asking, and my ignorance, but where is the other fiffy horsepower? I thought this unit was touted as 300? Perhaps the last 1000 RPM I guess.

Cheers,
C# ;)

I have stage 2, not the Stage 2 CS, my CAT is still the stock one.
The 307 HP was with a high-flow CAT.
Still 253 on a bad day, is not that bad.
Mazsport is shipping me a dual resonated cat-less mid-pipe soon. :uhh:
Betsey; Mazsport...... Please soon.....
After I replace the exhaust I will trot on down and pay for a new dyno run.
:banghead:
Any thoughts on a meet with a dyno? (I can has group rate?)

Any thoughts on a meet with a dyno? (I can has group rate?)

brotherz racing in tampa charges $30 a pull. Or you can go by the hour for around $100/hr. You can also try titan motorsports up in orlando, I think they had a dyno machine there, but don't know for sure.

If you need more places, go to maps.google.com, search for businesses, type in racing, and start calling the matches nearby.

If you need more places, go to maps.google.com, search for businesses, type in racing, and start calling the matches nearby.

The DynoJet website has a list, that is where I found the last one:
DynoJet Dynos (http://www.dynojet.com/dyno_centers/list_automotive.aspx)

I did NOT pull any fuses when I dyno'd the car.
I have since learned there is a fuse under the hood that MUST be pulled on the RX8 to get a correct reading.:banghead:

I never pulled any fuses. Just disable traction control.

Yeah, pulling fuses isn't necessary.

What might be happening is you are reaching the end of the calcLoad range and the PCM is trying to do its torque-limit routine.
No way around that but a reflash, though.

I've never had the TSC/DSC/ABS interfere with a dyno run and I've pulled the fuses to see if anything improved, which it did not.

I now have the Racing beat cat-back, with the Mazsport dual resonated cat-less mid-pipe.
My car is too lean till I can get the thing tuned/flashed, but I am making 296 RWHP for now.
As far as the lean out, my solution is going to be LOT'S of Methanol for now. LOL :uhh:
I will need to try some new injectors soon to get MO GAS going in. :lol2:

dynojet?

what a/f's are you getting? Are you data collecting?
olddragger

Which dynomometer did you use?

www.realstreetperformance.com Model 224xLC

what a/f's are you getting? Are you data collecting?
olddragger

Will post a scan later.

HI !

Waiting for your scan...pettit products looks so impressive.

^I'm confused

HI !

Waiting for your scan...pettit products looks so impressive.

Sorry for the delay.
I will make data captures at the dyno meet on August 3rd in Kissimmee.
The dyno graph and the data capture should be nice.

I hope to have Snow Performance's Nitro-Booster by then as well.:)

I was wondering if some of you get this parts from pettit racing : Billet By pass Valve.

I am waiting for my stage II and I was wondering about this one. :uhh:

thanks,

yup Ive got one on my setup...

Yes, it's pretty nice.

an dis it easy so much usefull or should I wait few months after my stage 2 installation to get it ?

Not exactly sure how you would use it on a NA car???
When you order the SC just call and tell Cam to add one on for you, if your able to afford the SC whats another $150 and it'll come installed...

I already order my stage II + rad hose kit + coils ignition & coils.
But I forgot to ask this part.

So I was wondering if I can wait and change it later or juste have to order it before the stage II installation ?

I already order my stage II + rad hose kit + coils ignition & coils.
But I forgot to ask this part.

So I was wondering if I can wait and change it later or juste have to order it before the stage II installation ?
It can be added at a later date. Kinda a bitch (for me) to change but doable.

how will your high boost system compare to the new hymee twin screw system that fluid is selling???

If the blower size is the same, which is what I have heard, then you should go with the kit that appears to be more user friendly, reliable, and your wallet agrees with. Boost is boost, air is air, etc. etc..