Originally Posted by blksf8

I have pics as well (although all are non-moving...sorry) including 1 of Brian's car so I'll post sometime today if I can get off this lazy spell.

I was in the novice class. My mods were K&N intake and RB front and rear sway bars. I honestly can say that the only other car that gave me trouble was 1 red FD. I was following him for 2 laps on his bumper through corners, but he had more power on the straights. He finally waved me by to pass at Andretti Hairpin so I did. He was with me up until turn 5 and they he couldn't keep up because as Brian said earlier, the 7s don't handle as well in the turns and cannot corner as fast as the 8s.

Brian's setup was similiar to the Pikachu car (PurNrg) w/ the JIC coilovers, RB front and rear sway bars, and the SSR comps w/ 245s. I took a ride in Brian's car on the first run of the day and it felt great...and not a harsh ride even w/ the spring rates high. He was on the tail of a black FD and the driver made a mistake, got loose, and ended up spinning a few times off and eventually stopped 5-10 feet from the wall. It was crazy.

Brian also drove in one of our novice group runs and passed my pretty easily. No fun at all!

My overall observations of my relatively stock 8 was that it handled well, but the stock potenzas are not adequate for the track once they heat up and/or if the track gets greasy. I passed cars at will early in the day, but it was very hard to keep traction in the turns in the afternoon. My next mod will definitely be wheels and track tires.

In closing, I wanted to say that the track day was great and Bern, Dan, the rest of the Rotary News guys, Mazda, Corksport etc. did a great job. I know it was hard organzing this event, but it was awesome. thanks for all your hard work!

...oh yes, and I'll post some pics later today. I know others like PurNrg may have some in car videos they may be able to share as well.

William

Originally Posted by Brian Goodwin

I was pretty happy with the tires. For those that don't know what we are talking about, I was giving the new Khumo MX a spin. The race rims I wanted for this car are not yet being made so I went with a better "street" setup and will get the real track setup later. This "street" setup is SSR Competitions in silver in 18x8.5 and 42mm offset with Khumo MXs in 245/40/18....if somebody explains to me how I get the pics up here I will post some good ones...or just email me. Fits perfect despite the fact that I used JIC coilovers to lower the car 1.25 inches (standard kit with 448 front and 228 rear spring rates. The rest of the setup includes our Racing Beat sway bar combo, and endlinks and a careful corner balancing and alignment (with my weight in the driver's seat!). Tested it at an autocross the previous weekend and though I won the class by more than 6 seconds the car was plowing pretty bad so we went back to the alignment and settled on:

Front:
Camber 1.8 negative
Toe 1/8 total toe out
Caster...as much as you can get

Rear
Camber 2.2 negative
Toe 1/8 total toe IN

Checking the tire temps at Laguna Seca across the hide indicated that it could have used even slightly more negative camber. I typically run 2.0 negative front and 2.5 negative rear on my track miatas and it seems the Rx8 wants about the same...at least with these tires.

The MXs did great throughout the day. Best comparison in feel that I can make is to the Toyo RA1 (to which there is some superficial resemblance in tread design too). Think of the Khumo MX as a RA1 in a harder compound, with all the good and bad that implies. Therefore, not as much grip as the RA1 or any of the true R compound tires, but through a range of temperatures and pressures the tire is very consistent and predictable. While it does not have the sidewall stiffness of the some other choices, the Khumo was more consistent than most over a broad range of temperatures (again like the RA1 on both issues).

Pushed hard enough it does eventually suffer the melted tread block edge issue that the race compound V700 Khumo does but only at the point that the driver is seriously over driving the tire (ie...slower lap time anyway). Breakaway is progressive, ride quality to and from the event was very good, noise is average to low. For the price this is a really nice tire...will be interested to see how it fares over the next few months and how fast it wears, bakes out, etc.

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomH

i admit it! i got passed by everyone! hurray on fwd family sedan!!! lol

Originally Posted by blksf8

so you are saying that either I was a better driver or your buddy Mike in the FD was a horrible driver??? I don't know. He was faster on straights pulling on me by a few carlengths, but my 8 was killing him in turns.

yes, there were instructors in Miatas that passed the whole group like we were standing still.

Originally Posted by Brian Goodwin

Somewhere around here is the link to the video from Japan of the FD against RX8 track contest. It was quite controversial at the time as many could not believe that a similarly prepped RX8 could equal a similarly prepped FD on the track.

Well, after Saturday I believe it. I was on street tires and I passed the FDs in the novice, intermediate, and advanced classes all day long...several of them on race tires and several times when they too had instructors at the wheel. Twice during the day two of those FDs passed me back while I was busy talking the lines with a student in the passenger seat. On one of the occassions I was pulling off track to switch students and did not give chase but on the other I put the pedal back down and three turns later I had him and passed him back. From what I saw on Saturday it seemed a surprisingly even contest with the FDs...they clearly had the advantage down the straights (no debate on that point) but in the corners I had them over and over again...even when they too had instructors at the wheel.

I love the FDs, gorgeous cars to look at...even if a bit delicate and they break too easy (they were dropping like flies Saturday), but their short wheel base and turbo power delivery mean stability issues in high speed turns (particularly on exit) that gives up quite a bit of their advantage to the longer wheel base and lower polar moment RX8. As a result, I consistently found that I could push faster with confidence in the corners then most of them would dare and the result was that I consistently passed them between turns 4 and 7 all day long...even if that meant they had a good shot of getting me back on the front straight if I did not build enough of a lead before getting around turn 11 to prevent the inevitable loss on the drag race portion of the track.

I "grew up" racing Miatas so this contest of corners versus straight sections is one I am familiar with. The RX8 chasis is wonderful for this, a little more power would be very welcome but even without it this is a really competent track machine...it was fun running down and passing the Ferrari 355 and other higher HP cars with under 200hp at the wheels...yippie! :D

Originally Posted by bern

That RX-8 video was actually first viewed by folks at SevenStock-5, and no one believed it then... but it's true. The 8 had the advantage in the twisties and the FD would run away when the road straightened out..... the cat and mouse game!

At this weekends event, I can say that none of my fast FD track friends attended. Back when (2000, 2001) we did a few (WWW- Winter Wankel Wonderland) Rotary events at Laguna, we had some of the real serious guys out and here is an example of what they did...

My aquaintance Mr. Lou Young in his modified FD with stock wheels and street tires.

FASTEST LAP
1:43.16
AVERAGE SPEED:
78.10 mph

If you want to see great in car video of this run, you can order his awesome video at: http://www.louyoung.com/


Ok and on my own review of the RX-8 on track at Laguna, go to:

http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/152

I wrote this piece back in Jan '03!

Cheers,

-Bern

Originally Posted by Brian Goodwin

The relevant question then becomes, do I think an RX8 could get down to a 1:43 at Laguna? Yes I do. As noted earlier, I was running 1:49s on street tires with a passenger. Race tires alone at Laguna is easily a few seconds a lap. Add some additional mods including higher spring rates, race tires on wider rims (I plan to go 18x9.5 or 17x10s for my race setup), and I think that time is indeed in reach.

Certainly it eventually just comes back to the old question: How fast you want to go, how much you want to spend? The lesson learned Saturday was that similarly prepped FDs and RX8s are surprisingly competitive. The incident noted above by blksf8 where I caught one FD and it spun trying to get away was repeated over and over and over (usually without the spin) all day long as I caught the FDs in turns of all the run groups, they would speed away down the straights to the next turn in an attempt to avoid the pass, but I would be on them again by mid-turn for turn after turn until they would usually give up...sometimes after they got loose trying to stay away from "the pesky 8 in their mirror with the flashers on." :D

Originally Posted by Brian Goodwin

The lesson learned Saturday was that similarly prepped FDs and RX8s are surprisingly competitive.

Originally Posted by thew

Not directing that at any one.. just making the statement . I was especially not talking to that Black 8 that got black flagged for sound heheheh

Ohh btw did any one run with there DSC off ?

Originally Posted by thew

Not directing that at any one.. just making the statement . I was especially not talking to that Black 8 that got black flagged for sound heheheh

Ohh btw did any one run with there DSC off ?

Originally Posted by blksf8

good point on the black flag for sound. anyone who doesn't think the K&N is loud, think again. My car only has a K&N intake (stock exhaust) and supposedly hit 100.2db. the max tolerance at the track was 90db. I was flagged 2x late in the day for sound so had to short shift or lift for 5 seconds each time I went by the sound booth on my last runs. Am looking now for anyone who can make a top heatshield for the intake. PM me if you know anyone who can do it for me.

Brian and Pur NRG were both probably DSC off 100% of the time. I had it off my last 3 runs. My last run w/o DSC I came in too hot into the corkscrew and went off plowing (no spin) into the dirt.