Quite a reputation RX8Club has going for itself ...
02-23-2012, 06:13 AM
#26
There's just one way to spin it really and it's the usual one from a legal point of view.
It doesn't matter what seller did with the money, what it matters is the lack of communication and delay.
Crying after years, like some unsatisfied users are doing, is useless. Again, the seller's is at fault when you consider the lack of product delivery in a timely fashion. The unsatisfied customers are completely at fault crying and bringing on crusades after all this time.
Had they filed a refund request after 6-8 weeks, even 12 all of this wouldn't have happened.
They're wrong complaining now even if they have the right to be upset, that's the truth.
Since one customer allegedly hired a lawyer now and the other one was caught in the middle despite his politeness anything you may or may not do is just annoying and useless.
It doesn't matter what seller did with the money, what it matters is the lack of communication and delay.
Crying after years, like some unsatisfied users are doing, is useless. Again, the seller's is at fault when you consider the lack of product delivery in a timely fashion. The unsatisfied customers are completely at fault crying and bringing on crusades after all this time.
Had they filed a refund request after 6-8 weeks, even 12 all of this wouldn't have happened.
They're wrong complaining now even if they have the right to be upset, that's the truth.
Since one customer allegedly hired a lawyer now and the other one was caught in the middle despite his politeness anything you may or may not do is just annoying and useless.
02-23-2012, 08:26 AM
#27
the entire thread is a series of opinions regarding the situation, your own may be just as annoying and useless in someone else's opinion. An opinion is only that. It is not truth. Needless to say I agree to disagree.
There is also more than the legal recourse as you suggest. The larger question is should the seller be allowed to continue as a forum vendor. It's a question that has been raised and executed upon in the past. Given your own assessment the answer seems obvious ...
There is also more than the legal recourse as you suggest. The larger question is should the seller be allowed to continue as a forum vendor. It's a question that has been raised and executed upon in the past. Given your own assessment the answer seems obvious ...
02-23-2012, 08:34 AM
#28
So you used a wrong thread title to open this thread just to gather some attention?
"Should XXX still be a vendor?" would be the right title.
You're acting childish and bringing this issue to threads where it doesn't belong.
There's a bad guy thread set up for that already, any other concerns should and could be addressed to the forum's staff and IB itself.
"Should XXX still be a vendor?" would be the right title.
You're acting childish and bringing this issue to threads where it doesn't belong.
There's a bad guy thread set up for that already, any other concerns should and could be addressed to the forum's staff and IB itself.
02-23-2012, 09:43 AM
#30
Just to point out a few obvious (or maybe not so obvious) things-
The original delays were all explained away. While I am certain you bse50 would have asked for a refund, others who may have wanted to trust the vendor and bought into the line of BS the vendor put out apparently gave the vendor the benefit of the doubt. This is really quite common, especially when your dealing with custom work. Sometimes things take time.
Thefact that the orders were scattered across the country and esp the international orders are the ones who suffered most, because it is much harder to deal with the issue legally when your not local. There is a fellow in Texas who did a similar deal on an intercooler setup, overestimated his base costs and the ability of his suppliers to deliver in a timely manner, spent a lot of peoples money before the components were even in his hands let alone constructed and ready for delivery. He is now almost two years later still delivering on his original promises. The difference is he is delivering- kits, refunds, etc. he is delivering and working things out. This is where this vendor has failed. There has been little to no communication and now the international customers are left hanging in the wind.
Now, lets say that they had asked for a refund (which you presume a lot here by assuming they did not) in the first few months? Do you honestly believe that they would have been refunded a cent? In fact, has anyone been refunded anything? Or discounted a dime for the lack of communication or time delay? The fact is that the customers here had little choice but go along for the ride and hope for the best.
Having been on both sides of the fence in waiting for delivery on a vendors empty promises as well as being lied about and sued by a customer lying through thier teeth, I could sympathize with either party. IMHO the European guys will never see a single part or a single cent from this debacle and hopefully have prepared themselves for this, and I am pretty damned certian Jeff could care less. As far as Jeffs status a vendor, it is beyond me what should happen and is for others to decide.
The original delays were all explained away. While I am certain you bse50 would have asked for a refund, others who may have wanted to trust the vendor and bought into the line of BS the vendor put out apparently gave the vendor the benefit of the doubt. This is really quite common, especially when your dealing with custom work. Sometimes things take time.
Thefact that the orders were scattered across the country and esp the international orders are the ones who suffered most, because it is much harder to deal with the issue legally when your not local. There is a fellow in Texas who did a similar deal on an intercooler setup, overestimated his base costs and the ability of his suppliers to deliver in a timely manner, spent a lot of peoples money before the components were even in his hands let alone constructed and ready for delivery. He is now almost two years later still delivering on his original promises. The difference is he is delivering- kits, refunds, etc. he is delivering and working things out. This is where this vendor has failed. There has been little to no communication and now the international customers are left hanging in the wind.
Now, lets say that they had asked for a refund (which you presume a lot here by assuming they did not) in the first few months? Do you honestly believe that they would have been refunded a cent? In fact, has anyone been refunded anything? Or discounted a dime for the lack of communication or time delay? The fact is that the customers here had little choice but go along for the ride and hope for the best.
Having been on both sides of the fence in waiting for delivery on a vendors empty promises as well as being lied about and sued by a customer lying through thier teeth, I could sympathize with either party. IMHO the European guys will never see a single part or a single cent from this debacle and hopefully have prepared themselves for this, and I am pretty damned certian Jeff could care less. As far as Jeffs status a vendor, it is beyond me what should happen and is for others to decide.
02-23-2012, 10:01 AM
#31
Internet fraud is a federal crime. If he has truly been defrauded, cannot get his money back, and can prove that he didn't receive the product, then why has he not simply sued by now? I wouldn't have waited 40 months for a product that wasn't coming.
A small claims case costs on average $80, and part of the filling can be to include all court related expenses. Just look up the local court for the vendor, get their operating address, and file.
Now, I'm not saying I approve of people being screwed by a vendor, and I would never do business with someone that doesn't provide what they promise. I'm kind of scratching my head at this point too... why are they still a vendor if they're committing a felony and defrauding people of purchased products.
Short and simple, if someone pays you for a product, you have to produce the product or refund the money without question. Refusal to do either in a timely manner is fraud.
Internet fraud: may be found guilty of a felony and face a fine of up to $250,000 and/or up to 20 years in jail. Often, those charged with computer and/or Internet fraud are also charged with wire fraud, mail fraud, conspiracy, identity theft, or other white collar crimes.
A small claims case costs on average $80, and part of the filling can be to include all court related expenses. Just look up the local court for the vendor, get their operating address, and file.
Now, I'm not saying I approve of people being screwed by a vendor, and I would never do business with someone that doesn't provide what they promise. I'm kind of scratching my head at this point too... why are they still a vendor if they're committing a felony and defrauding people of purchased products.
Short and simple, if someone pays you for a product, you have to produce the product or refund the money without question. Refusal to do either in a timely manner is fraud.
Internet fraud: may be found guilty of a felony and face a fine of up to $250,000 and/or up to 20 years in jail. Often, those charged with computer and/or Internet fraud are also charged with wire fraud, mail fraud, conspiracy, identity theft, or other white collar crimes.
02-23-2012, 11:41 AM
#32
Internet fraud is a federal crime. If he has truly been defrauded, cannot get his money back, and can prove that he didn't receive the product, then why has he not simply sued by now? I wouldn't have waited 40 months for a product that wasn't coming.
A small claims case costs on average $80, and part of the filling can be to include all court related expenses. Just look up the local court for the vendor, get their operating address, and file.
Now, I'm not saying I approve of people being screwed by a vendor, and I would never do business with someone that doesn't provide what they promise. I'm kind of scratching my head at this point too... why are they still a vendor if they're committing a felony and defrauding people of purchased products.
Short and simple, if someone pays you for a product, you have to produce the product or refund the money without question. Refusal to do either in a timely manner is fraud.
A small claims case costs on average $80, and part of the filling can be to include all court related expenses. Just look up the local court for the vendor, get their operating address, and file.
Now, I'm not saying I approve of people being screwed by a vendor, and I would never do business with someone that doesn't provide what they promise. I'm kind of scratching my head at this point too... why are they still a vendor if they're committing a felony and defrauding people of purchased products.
Short and simple, if someone pays you for a product, you have to produce the product or refund the money without question. Refusal to do either in a timely manner is fraud.
Anyway what i'd like to make clear is that I don't give a damn about this situation, it's just the personal crusade that's spreading to many threads for no apparent reason that is getting annoying.
I'm old enough to know what to do if a vendor doesn't deliver.
02-23-2012, 03:10 PM
#35
There have been plenty of crusades on the forum, including notably harsh participation by said vendor, and I don't recall any objection then.
The show is on the other foot now, and it fits too ...
if I ever were to be in the same position I would expect to be treated exactly the same way.
.
The show is on the other foot now, and it fits too ...
if I ever were to be in the same position I would expect to be treated exactly the same way.
.
02-23-2012, 04:00 PM
#36
There have been plenty of crusades on the forum, including notably harsh participation by said vendor, and I don't recall any objection then.
The show is on the other foot now, and it fits too ...
if I ever were to be in the same position I would expect to be treated exactly the same way.
.
The show is on the other foot now, and it fits too ...
if I ever were to be in the same position I would expect to be treated exactly the same way.
.
That's an interesting way to spell shoe...
02-23-2012, 04:08 PM
#38
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
there have been plenty of crusades on the forum, including notably harsh participation by said vendor, and i don't recall any objection then.
The show is on the other foot now, and it fits too ...
If i ever were to be in the same position i would expect to be treated exactly the same way.
.
The show is on the other foot now, and it fits too ...
If i ever were to be in the same position i would expect to be treated exactly the same way.
.
qft.
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