RX8FEVA

i just wanna know, is mazda is gonna bring out a two seater coupe version of the RX-8?

another question is what is the potential of the new renesis two rotor wankel engine? i mean, is 250 hp all you mazda guys can get? if not, then would you make a more sporty version of the
RX-8? the Z makes 287 and it seems that the RX-8 has A LOT more potential than the Z.

Hercules

To answer your first question, it would be a yes... but it depends on the sucess of the RX-8, and if that version comes out it will be the new RX-7.

Next, to address your concerns. If you are concerned with straight line performance, start looking at other cars than the RX-8. Every true Mazda enthusiast is looking at the RX-8 not for the straight line performance (though I'm sure that will be impressive) but for the handling.

250 all we can get? First off, the 287 that the Nissan makes is in an engine that is SIXTY THREE PERCENT LARGER than the Renesis that Mazda makes. I'm sure if you want to screw with porting of the rotors, you can easily get 300+ out of the car, though I wouldn't because then it wouldn't pass emissions due to unburned hydrocarbons passing thru the rotors.

The RX-8 is aiming to be a mainstream car. Like I said, this car is *NOT* about straight line performance, though it will be competitive with the Z, and I'd estimate the 0-60 and 1/4 times to be similar, within .2 or .3 seconds. This car has 4 seats, and a useable trunk that the Z does not. It is a real world sports car, much like BMWs are, but without that price. The rotary engine produces max power at around 7500-8000 RPMs, whereas the Z's engine produces it at 3000-4000 RPMs.

So if you want your straight line performance go right ahead and buy the Z. And then I'll meet you on the track and woop ya with your 287 horses, and the ability to carry four people and suitcases as well.

Quick_lude

Don't look at hp as a number.. Look at the hp to weight ratio. Would you consider a motorcycle good for 1/4 mile runs? After all it only has 140hp..

RX-8 Assuming 2970lbs/250hp = 11.88lbs/1 hp

350Z 3226lbs/287hp = 11.24 lbs/1 hp

Honda S2000 2810lbs/240hp = 11.70 lbs/1 hp

The S2000 has been known to break into 13's in the 1/4 mile.. I will take a light vehicle any day over a heavy one.

RX - 8

this should be in the Discussion lounge....

bulletproof21

This is the discussion lounge.

zoom44

i think he meant the lounge lounge :D

Rich

Good points Hercules, but one question. Where did you get 63%? 63% more than 1.3 is 2.1. I thought the 350z had a 3.5 liter and the RENESIS was 1.3 liters. That would make the engine in the Nissan 170% larger. 100% larger than 1.3 is 2.6, 200% larger would be 3.9 liters. I could be wrong on the sizes for either engine...

***EDIT*** Ah, I figured it out. 1.3 is 37% of 3.5, and 100%-37% is 63%. The real value you're looking for is that the 3.5 liter engine is 170% larger than a 1.3 liter.

MyT13B

Traditionally the 13B Rotary has been considered a 2.6 liter engine in racing applications for classification. The 12A is considered a 2.4 liter engine. In SCCA events, this makes a whole class level difference in that 13B cars were above the major division of 2.5 liters in the classification scheme in GT classes.

3.5/2.6 *100% = 135%

3.5 - 2.6 = .9

.9/2.6 * 100% = 35%

This was based on the displacement per revolution of the crankshaft. I still think this is a fair assessment. But where he got 63% is a bit beyond me.

Where the RX8 would be classified is unknown due to its level of performance (both handling and power). We already know that if the Star Mazda formula car is upgraded, that a new class of car will be born. and the old style may end up in the ranks a vintage cars. The RX8 will certainly be in a class of its own with respect to previous rotary powered cars. which class has yet to be proven.

RX - 8

it was in the suggestions forum....so i moved it to the disscusion area...next i'll just say MOVED..u happy :D

bulletproof21

my reply came out more sarcastic than I had intended.:D

Toadman

mmm.... k, RX-8 back at ya babe.. back to the suggestions forums. :D LOL!

BlueAdept

If the Rotary was concidered a 1.3 in racing applications it would wipe the floor with everything! Mind you, it'd get put into it's own class... so that wouldn't help...

Even so, it's 100Bhp/Litre just about, even if you take the new Renesis to be 2.6 Litres!

wakeech

ya, that's a pretty f'ing ripping hp/L ratio for a 4 stroke...
the thing about the wankel rotary though is that it acts like a 2 stroke for its power delivery characteristics (one power stroke per crank rotation per rotor), so if you wanna think of it in 2 stroke terms, it's a lot like a 436cc v-twin... (i got that number from the AVERAGE displacement of each rotor chamber... (654/3) then multiplied by two for each rotor -> two pistons)
ya, imagine a 440cc v-twin making 250 HP!! AHAHAHAHAA!! ALL MOTOR!! :D
of course, it's got the advantages of a FAAAAR more efficient inspiration/expiration system than any 2 stroke motor's got, let's not forget...

4 stroke motors make only one power stroke per TWO crank rotations!! so, basically the rotary has twice as many bangs for the displacement, and thus to make competition a little more fair, they lump it in with the approaching-3.0L crowd...

MyT13B

wakeech


if you are to compare the 13B rotary to a 2- stroke twin it would be a 1.3 Liter and still equate to a 2.6 liter 4- stroke.

I have seen 2 stroke 3 cylinder artic cat engines produce in the range of 200 hp. I think these are near a 1200 cc displacement.

So for ballpark figures, these are all very roughly inline with traditional rules of thumb.

Mazda man

Isn't there a gentlemans agreement in Japan not manufacture cars with more than 280 odd hp? So they have to limit hp *wink wink*

BlueAdept

If I recall, it's 276 HP, don't know why... perhaps that's 280PS.

But it applies to cars sold in Japan,... hence cars sold in other countries are fair game. That said, they don't change the HP for export often, so we get a lot of 276HP cars.

Europe has somthing of a "gentlemans agreement" on most cars not to have a top speed greater than 155Mph (most are electronicly limited)

CraziFuzzy

Nearly all cars sold in the US have some sort of Speed Governor, the speed of which is mostly based on the handling at different speeds in the car, hence most trucks are set in the 90's, most small cars around 110, and sports cars upwards of 140-150... (my escort is set at 107... precisely... everytime.. )