Attention Leasees!!!
03-09-2005, 08:19 AM
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Attention Leasees!!!
Sorry in advance if this post is against the rules, but I thought it would be OK :
Attention Leasees,
Many of your leases will be ending later this year and into next year, some of you will buy the car, some of you will sell, maybe at a profit (tough without financing), and many will simply give the car back to the dealer.
Wouldn't it be better to see the car go to another 8 fan who simply could not afford the car when it was new? You could let them have it for the residual or a couple hundred over for your trouble. Most of the 8's for sale are so expensive, you could buy a new one for a couple grand more, options notwithstanding of course, but most of us used buyers are value shoppers and would be quite happy with the base model. I think there would be many people who would be happy to provide a new home for 8's at the end of their lease, instead of just letting it go back to the dealer for them to make a healty profit. Beleive it or not, value shoppers like myself actually have more avenues to arrange for financing of a new car. Many used car buyers just go to the dealer because they have financing, and who has thousands in the bank to buy a car? Not most people. I could actually write a check for a car today, even though I do not have the amount in cash today (and no, it would not bounce). The thought of a car payment over $400 just scares me. I try to keep my debt low. Heck, my house only has a $800 payment, and it's not small, it's a nice 2100sf with tile and hardwoods throughout. Many of you are young and single, or comfortable with a higher debt threshold, but it is difficult to have nice things for yourself when you have a family to support. I was recently making a Mercedes payment ($700/monthly) just on health insurance through a past employer.
Anyway, it would be a nice addition to the club if we had an area or thread that allowed for leasees who were just going to turn in the car anyway to let another have a crack at owning one. The used market isn't going to help us, it is hard to find nice used cars at a reasonable price.
Comments? Am I way off-base here?
Attention Leasees,
Many of your leases will be ending later this year and into next year, some of you will buy the car, some of you will sell, maybe at a profit (tough without financing), and many will simply give the car back to the dealer.
Wouldn't it be better to see the car go to another 8 fan who simply could not afford the car when it was new? You could let them have it for the residual or a couple hundred over for your trouble. Most of the 8's for sale are so expensive, you could buy a new one for a couple grand more, options notwithstanding of course, but most of us used buyers are value shoppers and would be quite happy with the base model. I think there would be many people who would be happy to provide a new home for 8's at the end of their lease, instead of just letting it go back to the dealer for them to make a healty profit. Beleive it or not, value shoppers like myself actually have more avenues to arrange for financing of a new car. Many used car buyers just go to the dealer because they have financing, and who has thousands in the bank to buy a car? Not most people. I could actually write a check for a car today, even though I do not have the amount in cash today (and no, it would not bounce). The thought of a car payment over $400 just scares me. I try to keep my debt low. Heck, my house only has a $800 payment, and it's not small, it's a nice 2100sf with tile and hardwoods throughout. Many of you are young and single, or comfortable with a higher debt threshold, but it is difficult to have nice things for yourself when you have a family to support. I was recently making a Mercedes payment ($700/monthly) just on health insurance through a past employer.
Anyway, it would be a nice addition to the club if we had an area or thread that allowed for leasees who were just going to turn in the car anyway to let another have a crack at owning one. The used market isn't going to help us, it is hard to find nice used cars at a reasonable price.
Comments? Am I way off-base here?
Last edited by shahram72; 03-09-2005 at 08:24 AM.
03-15-2005, 05:42 PM
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I agree, shahram. I'd like to buy an 8 in the next year or so, and picking one up from a member whose lease is up would be great. I'd know it was well taken care of by someone here, and it would eliminate the hassle of going through a dealership.
03-15-2005, 07:15 PM
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I would be careful of buying a lease car though, especially if it was a younger owner. Leasers sometimes don't take as good of care of the car because they know they really don't own it. So, the run the hell out of because it will be going back to the bank and no skin off their nose. If you know a guy site person that doesn't brag about kills and burnouts you might have a good chance at you idea though.
03-16-2005, 08:20 AM
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Right, I would never buy from an owner in his twenties. Past teen drivers is something that should show up on Carfax! Just pondering the off chance that some adult RX-8 driver who is ready for something new (lease drivers like to have something new), who would rather see another enthusiast get his car rather than the wolves at the dealership. I am family man with obligations, so it's very hard to have a sports car for myself, and I work harder than most single guys here who own one. On a side note, I would love to find a way to buy cars at the end of lease at wholesale and sell them locally or on ebay. just one at a time, as a hobby. Not the 8, I want that for myself. I would happy selling on a month at only $1000 or so profit. I would enjoy detailing the cars and driving them a little bit. I would deal in cars that I cannot afford to keep, so I wouldn't be inclined to keep them. Cars like Porsche, Mercedes, or BMW's, cars in the 30-50K range used value. It would be nice to drive an 04 SL for a few days! Or a 911. I have the financing to do this, but choose not to make the payments to own one. I even thought it might be nice to do this with even higher line cars, but buyers for those are much harder to find and I wouldn't want to be caught with a Ferrari that needed even a minor repair. Anyone know of any method to get a hold of off-lease cars like this? Place an ad? Browse other forums? lol! But seriously, that is not what I'm doing here, I just want a sports car again, and as many of you know, there are not many alternatives to the 8.
03-16-2005, 08:33 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by shahram72
Sorry in advance if this post is against the rules, but I thought it would be OK :
Attention Leasees,
Many of your leases will be ending later this year and into next year, some of you will buy the car, some of you will sell, maybe at a profit (tough without financing), and many will simply give the car back to the dealer.
Wouldn't it be better to see the car go to another 8 fan who simply could not afford the car when it was new? You could let them have it for the residual or a couple hundred over for your trouble. Most of the 8's for sale are so expensive, you could buy a new one for a couple grand more, options notwithstanding of course, but most of us used buyers are value shoppers and would be quite happy with the base model. I think there would be many people who would be happy to provide a new home for 8's at the end of their lease, instead of just letting it go back to the dealer for them to make a healty profit. Beleive it or not, value shoppers like myself actually have more avenues to arrange for financing of a new car. Many used car buyers just go to the dealer because they have financing, and who has thousands in the bank to buy a car? Not most people. I could actually write a check for a car today, even though I do not have the amount in cash today (and no, it would not bounce). The thought of a car payment over $400 just scares me. I try to keep my debt low. Heck, my house only has a $800 payment, and it's not small, it's a nice 2100sf with tile and hardwoods throughout. Many of you are young and single, or comfortable with a higher debt threshold, but it is difficult to have nice things for yourself when you have a family to support. I was recently making a Mercedes payment ($700/monthly) just on health insurance through a past employer.
Anyway, it would be a nice addition to the club if we had an area or thread that allowed for leasees who were just going to turn in the car anyway to let another have a crack at owning one. The used market isn't going to help us, it is hard to find nice used cars at a reasonable price.
Comments? Am I way off-base here?
Attention Leasees,
Many of your leases will be ending later this year and into next year, some of you will buy the car, some of you will sell, maybe at a profit (tough without financing), and many will simply give the car back to the dealer.
Wouldn't it be better to see the car go to another 8 fan who simply could not afford the car when it was new? You could let them have it for the residual or a couple hundred over for your trouble. Most of the 8's for sale are so expensive, you could buy a new one for a couple grand more, options notwithstanding of course, but most of us used buyers are value shoppers and would be quite happy with the base model. I think there would be many people who would be happy to provide a new home for 8's at the end of their lease, instead of just letting it go back to the dealer for them to make a healty profit. Beleive it or not, value shoppers like myself actually have more avenues to arrange for financing of a new car. Many used car buyers just go to the dealer because they have financing, and who has thousands in the bank to buy a car? Not most people. I could actually write a check for a car today, even though I do not have the amount in cash today (and no, it would not bounce). The thought of a car payment over $400 just scares me. I try to keep my debt low. Heck, my house only has a $800 payment, and it's not small, it's a nice 2100sf with tile and hardwoods throughout. Many of you are young and single, or comfortable with a higher debt threshold, but it is difficult to have nice things for yourself when you have a family to support. I was recently making a Mercedes payment ($700/monthly) just on health insurance through a past employer.
Anyway, it would be a nice addition to the club if we had an area or thread that allowed for leasees who were just going to turn in the car anyway to let another have a crack at owning one. The used market isn't going to help us, it is hard to find nice used cars at a reasonable price.
Comments? Am I way off-base here?
03-16-2005, 11:33 PM
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In a lot of states (like mine) a lease car can only have the title transfered to the lesee or a car deal. So you could not "buy" my lease car nor could I sell it to you in a single step. I would have to buy the car, pay 7% sales tax, then sell it to you and you pay sales tax again. This double tax means no good lease pick up deals. However, if you go through a car dealer or licensed broker then there is no double tax.
Besides, one of the nice things about a lease is if the car is worth less than residual, you just turn it in and get something else - or negotiate a lower price (since the bank does not really want it back to go through the auction) and keep it. If the car is worth more than buy out, then buy it and keep it - or find a broker and make some money back. My last two leases I was able to sell the car and make some money too. So no reason to "give" the car away if the residual proves to be too low - get back some of the money that was put into the car.
I think what you will find down the road is that lease residuals are going to be too high VS the fair market value of the cars. Right now, new 04s are going for $21.5k (sports pack) to $26k (GT w/nav) and I bet the residuals on a 3 year lease done when the 8 came out via MAC over 50%. So a GT car would have a residual of $20k or more. So in 2 more years it will still be $20k but you can pick up a used 8 for less at that time. Now 3rd party lease banks are doing 49% residual on a 36/36 lease of the 2005 8 (a whopping 57% for the same lease on an S2000 and 51% for a 350z and an incredible 61% for the G35 coupe). The lower the residual the less of the MSRP the bank expects the car to hold - and the more you pay now for the lease.
Dennis
Besides, one of the nice things about a lease is if the car is worth less than residual, you just turn it in and get something else - or negotiate a lower price (since the bank does not really want it back to go through the auction) and keep it. If the car is worth more than buy out, then buy it and keep it - or find a broker and make some money back. My last two leases I was able to sell the car and make some money too. So no reason to "give" the car away if the residual proves to be too low - get back some of the money that was put into the car.
I think what you will find down the road is that lease residuals are going to be too high VS the fair market value of the cars. Right now, new 04s are going for $21.5k (sports pack) to $26k (GT w/nav) and I bet the residuals on a 3 year lease done when the 8 came out via MAC over 50%. So a GT car would have a residual of $20k or more. So in 2 more years it will still be $20k but you can pick up a used 8 for less at that time. Now 3rd party lease banks are doing 49% residual on a 36/36 lease of the 2005 8 (a whopping 57% for the same lease on an S2000 and 51% for a 350z and an incredible 61% for the G35 coupe). The lower the residual the less of the MSRP the bank expects the car to hold - and the more you pay now for the lease.
Dennis
03-17-2005, 05:10 PM
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Well as a owner in his twenties I know for a fact that I treat my car better then 95% of people. I don't abuse the car. Not to buy from someone just because they are in their twenties? Well thats your bad luck then if my car is ever for sell because my car is very well maintained . I know no one is bashing and neither am I but that is a big statement to be made. Who knows maybe I am just and exception to most 20 year olds. :D
03-17-2005, 05:24 PM
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I take exception to someone saying that lease drivers don't take care of the car like an owner would. Since the lessee is reposible for the condition of the car at turn in then they had better take care of it. I have had several leases, and I treat them all like I was planning on keeping the car. In some cases I did, in others I sold it to someone else. When you show the propsective buyer frequent oil changes and nice service records it does help with the sale.
Now, I would NOT buy a former rental car. Man everyone drives those like they stole em' :D There have been a couple of cases of folks renting a sporty car and taking it to the local autox for everyone to wail on all day then returning it - not many miles but a lot less tread.
Dennis
Now, I would NOT buy a former rental car. Man everyone drives those like they stole em' :D There have been a couple of cases of folks renting a sporty car and taking it to the local autox for everyone to wail on all day then returning it - not many miles but a lot less tread.
Dennis
03-18-2005, 09:15 AM
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Well, I partially retract what I said. I depends on the person. An early twenty cocky college student who wears his baseball cap backwards and got this car from mom & dad, I'd be wary. But an older, obviously more mature twenty something, big difference. There is a big difference between a 21 year old who does not make his/her own way and a 27 year old graduate who pays taxes. I made a rash generalization. I speak from experience cause I've been both sides of this. When I was younger, I took exceptional care with my Dodge Stealth, same as I would now, but today I would not have shifted the car so hard as I did then. Although the car is none worse for the wear. It is still running at 200K miles today, owned by a friend of mine. If I had an eight, I would definitely punch it from time to time, but would not try to shift it very fast, out of concern for the tranny. And I would never do a burnout today.
AND, those on this board do not reflect the general public. We are all enthusiasts here, and take better care of a vehicle than most people would even know how to if they wanted to.
AND, those on this board do not reflect the general public. We are all enthusiasts here, and take better care of a vehicle than most people would even know how to if they wanted to.
Last edited by shahram72; 03-18-2005 at 09:19 AM.
03-18-2005, 05:31 PM
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shahram, it sounds like you might need to become a licensed auto dealer to pull off what you plan. Check with the state professional licensing bureau. Might not be too difficult.
03-18-2005, 05:50 PM
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Around here is is not easy - you have to work for or own a dealership. To be a "Dealership" you have to have or contract with a garage for repairs, have a minimum number of parking spots, and a minimum amount of signage. So no saying "my house is a dealership" or anything.
I do know some folks that have friends that own dealerships that got them dealer licenses (so they can buy cars at the auctions) but they don't really work at the dealership.
Dennis
I do know some folks that have friends that own dealerships that got them dealer licenses (so they can buy cars at the auctions) but they don't really work at the dealership.
Dennis
03-19-2005, 09:17 PM
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Yeah I know a little about the Dealership thing. I would skate right under the legal amount of transactions I could legally do in a year without a license. Right now I am swamped with other business ventures. Not making a dime yet but trying to keep from going back to work for someone else. I may never even be able to get an 8. But I am a member here because it is my favorite car, I am fairly knowledgeable about it, and if I did have the opportunity to own one on my terms, I would jump at the chance!
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