LPG (liquified petroleum gas) installation
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LPG (liquified petroleum gas) installation
Hello everybody,
I'm searching the internet for a few days, and untill now unsuccessfully, trying to find an answer to my question: can the RX-8 be converted to use LPG instead of (conventional) fuel? Does anybody has experience with a LPG installation in the RX-8? What kit doe you use? The issue of the (relative) high fuel consumption is my only raison not having signed an order to buy one! You must see, at my average of 25000 km per year, I've calculated a 1500 - 2000 EURO difference in consumption with my current car. So, a LPG installation would mean a payback of approx. 1 year!
Many Thanks for your replies,
Péke,
Belgium
I'm searching the internet for a few days, and untill now unsuccessfully, trying to find an answer to my question: can the RX-8 be converted to use LPG instead of (conventional) fuel? Does anybody has experience with a LPG installation in the RX-8? What kit doe you use? The issue of the (relative) high fuel consumption is my only raison not having signed an order to buy one! You must see, at my average of 25000 km per year, I've calculated a 1500 - 2000 EURO difference in consumption with my current car. So, a LPG installation would mean a payback of approx. 1 year!
Many Thanks for your replies,
Péke,
Belgium
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From: Belgium
Hello IKnowNot'ing,
it wasn't me! But I did contact Mazda Belgium, and they told me that it would be technically possible but that the change that Mazda would give a "homologation" for LPG is rather small... I will attach their answer later (when my webmail is available again!) Can you tell me what 'Prins Autogas' says concerning my question? Are you interested as well?
Greetings,
Péke
it wasn't me! But I did contact Mazda Belgium, and they told me that it would be technically possible but that the change that Mazda would give a "homologation" for LPG is rather small... I will attach their answer later (when my webmail is available again!) Can you tell me what 'Prins Autogas' says concerning my question? Are you interested as well?
Greetings,
Péke
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From: Lahr, Germany
Why?
The tank would have to go in the trunk, right?
A large steel pressure tank, mounted behind the axle would disrupt your handling noticeably.....
You realise you will get even LESS kilometres from a litre of LPG vs. gasoline?
......and less maximum power?
Perhaps a diesel volkswagen was more what you wanted?
felix
A large steel pressure tank, mounted behind the axle would disrupt your handling noticeably.....
You realise you will get even LESS kilometres from a litre of LPG vs. gasoline?
......and less maximum power?
Perhaps a diesel volkswagen was more what you wanted?
felix
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Péke,
No I do not intend to go LPG on any of my cars for many reasons.
I don't know how rotaries would cope with such a drastic change of fuel.
If you go for it, courageous man, choose a multipoint vapour (like Prins Autogas VSI) or liquid injection (like Vialle LPI).
And let us know!
No I do not intend to go LPG on any of my cars for many reasons.
I don't know how rotaries would cope with such a drastic change of fuel.
If you go for it, courageous man, choose a multipoint vapour (like Prins Autogas VSI) or liquid injection (like Vialle LPI).
And let us know!
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Hello IKnowNot'ing,
thanks for your reply, it seems that you DO know a fair bit... I will search for some information (and guarantee!!!) on the systems you suggested!
Hello Felix,
a Volkswagen Diesel, never thought of it, but considering...
The higher fuel consumption is according to me irrelevant in comparison with the lower price per liter: 1/3 of gasoline and 1/2 of Diesel! And I'm not such an extreme driver that neither the handling, nor the lower maximum power are important to me.
As promised, I've included the answer of Mazda Belgium to my question (in Dutch):
"De Mazda RX-8 , die met een Renesis-motor is uitgerust, zou gemakkelijk op LPG kunnen rijden. Spijtig genoeg, zijn er nog geen plannen om deze optie te laten homologeren en is de kans vrij klein dat Mazda ooit een LPG-kit voor dit model zal laten ontwikkelen."
So there is still a tiny bit of hope...
Greetings,
Péke
thanks for your reply, it seems that you DO know a fair bit... I will search for some information (and guarantee!!!) on the systems you suggested!
Hello Felix,
a Volkswagen Diesel, never thought of it, but considering...
The higher fuel consumption is according to me irrelevant in comparison with the lower price per liter: 1/3 of gasoline and 1/2 of Diesel! And I'm not such an extreme driver that neither the handling, nor the lower maximum power are important to me.
As promised, I've included the answer of Mazda Belgium to my question (in Dutch):
"De Mazda RX-8 , die met een Renesis-motor is uitgerust, zou gemakkelijk op LPG kunnen rijden. Spijtig genoeg, zijn er nog geen plannen om deze optie te laten homologeren en is de kans vrij klein dat Mazda ooit een LPG-kit voor dit model zal laten ontwikkelen."
So there is still a tiny bit of hope...
Greetings,
Péke
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From: Belgique
You can contact Roger Konings at Prins Autogas (see website for tel.).
Roger seemed to have tested a RX8 for compatibility with their VSI system. He said it might not work due to the fact the injectors pulse more than once per engine rev, or something similar. Nothing certain though.
Note that my fuel economy improved slightly on the last tank. I just cruised normally, only using high revs for overtakings. I will post my FE figures when I reach 3000 km or so.
Good luck.
Roger seemed to have tested a RX8 for compatibility with their VSI system. He said it might not work due to the fact the injectors pulse more than once per engine rev, or something similar. Nothing certain though.
Note that my fuel economy improved slightly on the last tank. I just cruised normally, only using high revs for overtakings. I will post my FE figures when I reach 3000 km or so.
Good luck.
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There's a German company that installs the ICOM JTG liquid LPG-injection in the Mazda RX-8 HP (231 HP/ 170KW ):
http://www.autogastechnik.net/images...azda_mx-8.html
In the red circle : the switch that alows you to switch between fuell (gas) and LPG operation and also status-LED's showing on what carburant currently is used .
There are also LED's that indicate the LPG-level in the LPG tank .
http://www.autogastechnik.net/images...azda_mx-8.html
In the red circle : the switch that alows you to switch between fuell (gas) and LPG operation and also status-LED's showing on what carburant currently is used .
There are also LED's that indicate the LPG-level in the LPG tank .
Last edited by TurboBoost; Jan 4, 2009 at 12:58 PM. Reason: more explanation added
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Auf der Leipziger Automobilausstellung (AMI) vom 14. bis zum 22.April 2007 präsentierten wir den weltweit ersten MAZDA RX-8 mit Flüssiggasantrieb.
http://www.icomitalia.it/lang1/imp_jtg.html
http://www.icomitalia.it/lang1/index.html
Die Revolution des Gasmarktes
Das JTG System von icom ist die absolute Neuheit auf dem Markt der Gasanlagen.
Das System der Flüssiggaseinspritzung mit flüssigem Gas hat eine kühlende Wirkung in der Brennkammer und ist durch erhöhte Sauerstoffbindung leistungssteigernd.
Dabei verzichtet das JTG-System völlig auf eine Steuereinheit oder eine programmierbare ECU. Die absolute Kontrolle der Gasanlage liegt bei dem original Motorsteuergerät.
Lediglich ein zeitgesteuertes Relais schaltet die Gasanlage nach 55 Sekunden ein und schaltet das Signal der original Benzin-Einspritzdüsen auf die Gas-Einspritzdüsen.
Warum 55 Sekunden? Mit dieser Zeitspanne wird gesichert, dass das gesamte JTG - System mit flüssigem Flüssiggas gefüllt ist, bzw, dass sich keine Gasbläschen mehr im System befinden. Ist das System nun durch das Starten des Benzinmotors in Bewegung gekommen, spült die Gaspumpe im Tank des Reserverades das gesamte System durch, reinigt dabei das System von übriggeblieben, gasförmigen Gasresten.
Es schaltet dann, unabhängig von der Wettersituation auf Gas um.
Dann fließt das Gas vom Tank zu den Gaseinspritzdüsen und wird dort in die Brennkammern gepumpt. Die Gasmengen, die nicht benötigt wurden, fließen über einen Rücklauf in den Tank zurück.
Das JTG System von icom ist die absolute Neuheit auf dem Markt der Gasanlagen.
Das System der Flüssiggaseinspritzung mit flüssigem Gas hat eine kühlende Wirkung in der Brennkammer und ist durch erhöhte Sauerstoffbindung leistungssteigernd.
Dabei verzichtet das JTG-System völlig auf eine Steuereinheit oder eine programmierbare ECU. Die absolute Kontrolle der Gasanlage liegt bei dem original Motorsteuergerät.
Lediglich ein zeitgesteuertes Relais schaltet die Gasanlage nach 55 Sekunden ein und schaltet das Signal der original Benzin-Einspritzdüsen auf die Gas-Einspritzdüsen.
Warum 55 Sekunden? Mit dieser Zeitspanne wird gesichert, dass das gesamte JTG - System mit flüssigem Flüssiggas gefüllt ist, bzw, dass sich keine Gasbläschen mehr im System befinden. Ist das System nun durch das Starten des Benzinmotors in Bewegung gekommen, spült die Gaspumpe im Tank des Reserverades das gesamte System durch, reinigt dabei das System von übriggeblieben, gasförmigen Gasresten.
Es schaltet dann, unabhängig von der Wettersituation auf Gas um.
Dann fließt das Gas vom Tank zu den Gaseinspritzdüsen und wird dort in die Brennkammern gepumpt. Die Gasmengen, die nicht benötigt wurden, fließen über einen Rücklauf in den Tank zurück.
http://www.icomitalia.it/lang1/imp_jtg.html
http://www.icomitalia.it/lang1/index.html
Last edited by TurboBoost; Jan 4, 2009 at 12:05 PM.
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The advantages from a LPG-injection in liquid form versus vapour form are :
-the lquid lpg vaporises like normal fuel and extracts heat from the surrounding , sort of intercooling effect simmilar to the effect of NOS.
-Cools the inside of the engine
-less complicated system (no vaporiser )
-and a major advantage is that the ICOM JTG utilises the factory ECU from the car instead of an aditional LPG-ECU , so all the functions and systems off the original ECU are stayin intact (for example diagnostics by the car dealer )
-on the ICOM JTG-system the in LPG-tank LPG-pump is protected against dry-running ( witch is a weak point on Vialle LPI, witch causes broken LPG-pumps )
-on some cars they make extra power with liquid LPG-injection like ICOM JTG or Vialle LPI , for example : the Belgian LPG-installer Deroover has a Dodge RAm SRT-10 (=Viper-engined) pickup that produces more HP and torque on lpg than on gas .
http://www.lpgderoover.be/wie.php?lang=en
-the lquid lpg vaporises like normal fuel and extracts heat from the surrounding , sort of intercooling effect simmilar to the effect of NOS.
-Cools the inside of the engine
-less complicated system (no vaporiser )
-and a major advantage is that the ICOM JTG utilises the factory ECU from the car instead of an aditional LPG-ECU , so all the functions and systems off the original ECU are stayin intact (for example diagnostics by the car dealer )
-on the ICOM JTG-system the in LPG-tank LPG-pump is protected against dry-running ( witch is a weak point on Vialle LPI, witch causes broken LPG-pumps )
-on some cars they make extra power with liquid LPG-injection like ICOM JTG or Vialle LPI , for example : the Belgian LPG-installer Deroover has a Dodge RAm SRT-10 (=Viper-engined) pickup that produces more HP and torque on lpg than on gas .
http://www.lpgderoover.be/wie.php?lang=en
Last edited by TurboBoost; Jan 4, 2009 at 12:08 PM.
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Saw one at the Nurburgring in October.....nice install...lt seemed to go like normal
English was a little difficult for the owner so I didn't get too many details...looking under the hood you really couldn't see much but the controller..the trunk on the other hand was full of tank
English was a little difficult for the owner so I didn't get too many details...looking under the hood you really couldn't see much but the controller..the trunk on the other hand was full of tank
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From: Belgium
Saw one at the Nurburgring in October.....nice install...lt seemed to go like normal
English was a little difficult for the owner so I didn't get too many details...looking under the hood you really couldn't see much but the controller..the trunk on the other hand was full of tank
English was a little difficult for the owner so I didn't get too many details...looking under the hood you really couldn't see much but the controller..the trunk on the other hand was full of tank
A cilindrical tank or a toroidal tank or smaller diametre dual-cilindrical tanks ?
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regular gas costs in Belgium at the moment maximum (governement sets the maimum prices , gasstations may offer lower prices ) :
1,123€ / L for super 98(octane) leadfree
1,105€ /L for super 95
0,934€ / L for Diesel
0,390€ / L for LPG (GPL in French) , LPG has a lower energetic rate , for the same performance as regular gas you need 10 to 20% more LPG but who cares , is ridiculously cheap .
The cheapest LPG in Belgium costs 0,258€/L !
1,123€ / L for super 98(octane) leadfree
1,105€ /L for super 95
0,934€ / L for Diesel
0,390€ / L for LPG (GPL in French) , LPG has a lower energetic rate , for the same performance as regular gas you need 10 to 20% more LPG but who cares , is ridiculously cheap .
The cheapest LPG in Belgium costs 0,258€/L !
Last edited by TurboBoost; Jan 5, 2009 at 12:08 PM.
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these people also do it in tthe UK www.hardysrecovery.co.uk
edit: ^^oh hey thats who did yours isnt it?
edit: ^^oh hey thats who did yours isnt it?
It's only cheap because it is a by-product and the market is small - if more people used it the price would equal gasoline.
The refinery I work at sells all their propane and butane to a bottler next door, for less than the cost of crude (they take a loss on it).
The refinery I work at sells all their propane and butane to a bottler next door, for less than the cost of crude (they take a loss on it).
I cant say I see them being used terribly often, but LPG pumps are quite common in Belgium Netherlands and Luxembourg. I havent paid attention in France Germany or UK
