ASH8

Next are the Door Locks with Cables all in one.
FE01 for your doors again without BA.($103.00 each)
FE02's are for a later set up with a BA.

ASH8

Last are these expensive Control Modules!!...

First the Key-less Entry Module FEZ9-67-5DZC ($341.42)

And the Door Lock and Timer Module..FF21-67-83Y ($521.79)
Now this is where the EPC says you have one WITH a Burglar Alarm??
Where other parts says your car does not have a BA
Perhaps you can confirm.??

So Denny, I probably have not helped much, BUT, these are the changes done to all the electronic stuff on your 09 to later S2 models..

There is also a change to the Speedo Meter Set, but, I left that one out for now.

Antenna's are listed in this thread..
https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical-trouble-shooting-160/antenna-system-ake-card-type-key-s2-225058/

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

Hmmmm Just got back from a crazy trip and only caught this now.

Denny, did you ever check that second fuse behind the gauge set (I really thought we were onto something there)? I really cant help but feel there is a short or pinched cable somewhere under the dash. I also am sorry if I ask any redundant questions that you and I have talked about in the past. I know this is your curse but really it is mine now. If you feel uneasy or overly frustrated just let me know and Ill have a truck sent down there next week. Also no Haltech.... It will tempt me to pick up a second Hymee kit I just found for sale stateside.

Paimon, are you saying a ODB scanner/diagnostic tool that works with a S1 will not necessarily work with a S2? Any good recommendations or ideas on what to look for when buying this tool for a S2? PM me any relevant info on the tool please.

Ash, I cannot believe so much has changed.... Crazy.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Ash as always you are the man mate--all info helps here! I have learned a lot since this project begun --thanks to you all.
it is interesting stuff you find out--
I dont think there is a siren present in this car--there was no connection for one in the rear quaterpanel--if i remember correctly.

Hoss---OH HECK NO--dont send a truck ! I gotta find out what the heck is going on with this thing.
Don't worry i am not going to cut anything etc I have a lot of curse's on me I do appreciate the offer though. That was nice of ya.
And that is correct --the S2 model uses a different type of can bus system than the S1. You just have to make sure the reader/scanner you have can work on this car.
That connector i found that was a loose when i just wiggled the cable ended up just going to the michrophone that automatically adjusts the stereo vol. I dont think that is going to affect anything?

ASH8

Hey Denny..

Well that is what the VIN is saying, you have no Burglar Alarm, but the Door Lock and Timer Unit says you have a BA?, anyway....

What a nightmare, and Yes Hoss, Mazda does this all the time with Series Updates, but, the S2 really has more changes than I can recall for any Mazda in the past 25 years, they did so much to rectify the S1 issues, just a shame the S2 never took off sales wise, Mazda invested a lot of money in it.

I think we are only talking 5000 units (S2) worldwide in 4 years by end 2012, making it one of the rarest Mazda Rotaries ever made...next to the Roadpacer.

Anyway Denny, so where are you exactly at mate, has ANYTHING been resolved?, are you sure the Mazda Dealer tried the correct PCM??

But yeah, this is such a strange one, one day working fine and then the next...NOTHING!..

Perhaps I would be looking at corrosion either at electrical plugs or inside these control boxes or antennae.

Denny, have you tried opening up the Key-less Receiver and Transmitter unit to look for corrosion or any burnt out connection or circuit?

Ash

Mazurfer

"Perhaps I would be looking at corrosion either at electrical plugs or inside these control boxes or antennae."
Unfortunately, this is where I think the problem may lie, even though Denny believes water didn't get that high. All it takes is one little area somewhere in the long chain somewhere to get "F'd" up and this could result. Think I will take a look at the wiring diagrams in further detail and really zero in on where they run and try to give him some ideas?????

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

now there is a thought--i havent opened that up, the outside was good and it was higher than any moisture plus it seemed to work ok, but you never know......
Maz I had the entire interior out of the car including the dash frame--harness was checked while out. no wire discoloration other than what was fixed with the airbag stuff. I peeled some of the wire insulator back ( very tiny amount) and check different areas.. I have checked some cross connection wire resistances, but not all. i have not touched the engine bay harness except to check the wiring in the fuse box for correct power and grounds etc. remeber when we did the pcm connections troubleshooting--that was done. All relays work per removed and battery check with the click heard.
I am agreeing now that something in the can bus line is doing this? Damn interesting.
Holiday today and have to pay family dues (fun anyway), tomorrow my Pettit car finally gets tuned by Steve Kan and the next w/e I have a HUGE track event at Road Atlanta. So time wise--i am pretty packed with tuning, track prep etc.
I probably will be bugging folks at road Atlanta about this problem--ha!

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

Dose anyone know if their is a separate can bus controller? How much could operate on the car if their is a grounded or hot can buss data line?

I would venture to guess even with a bad can bus data path many "simple" things such as the radio and door locks would still operate independently.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Only diagnostic information sits on the canbus, so technically everything would still work except for instrument clusters i would assume.

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

I always thought the Can Bus was used for much more then simple code reading or diagnostic information. I thought the can bus was also used as communication layer between various systems in the car and that it was also how the factory techs reprogram the different sub systems through the obd port.

I wonder where the Can Bus communication originates from.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

the canbus is the communication layer between systems in the system, but you might be confusing the programming and reprogramming of systems with J2534

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

Nope No confusion. I just did not know! So would the pin out standard for the obd in the series two be Like this:

2: J2543 bus +
4: Chassis ground
5: Signal ground
6: Can bus high
7: K line (not sure ISO standard)
10: J2543 bus -
14: Can bus low
15: L line (not sure ISO standard)
16: +12 vdc

Once again I wish I knew where the signal originates from. I would guess the PCM but that would just be a guess. If there is some sort of in-between controller for the interface I would look there first. It dose sound like one or all systems are simply not talking to one another.

Hmmm wonder how well this product would work: http://www.drewtech.com/products/dashdaqpc.html

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Looking at the OBD2 port on the car, assume that pin 1 is the bottom right hand pin, and pin 9 is the top right pin:

2. J2543+
3. MSCAN+
4. GND
5. GND
6. HSCAN+
7. Auto Headlight/ SAS / DSC Modules
8. Auto Leveler For Headlight
10. J2543-
11. MSCAN-
14. HSCAN-
16. 12vdc

Not sure if the J2543 DashDAQ stuff will work. I was under the impression that the data bus was encrypted which is why not many solutions are available for flashing.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Meh. You just have a munged-up "terminator" or whatever those filters are that are placed at semi-regular intervals along the dash harness in the CAN wiring are called.

Lemme guess: the steel tubing under the dash is almost completely covered in rust?

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

Very interesting. Thank you for the incite. I thought it was the odd ball J2543 standard that was the limiting factor. I would guess one should still be able to at least pull can bus codes with a hand held scanner though.

So we can then assume pins 2,3,6,7,8,10,11,14 should not have continuity with any other pins?

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

It sounds to me like a disconnect, bent pin or fouled connection. What do these filters look like? I am assuming the plug in type?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No - they are like grounding blocks along the harness where multiple lines from the CAN devices meet. They look like over-sized sugar cubes.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

one of these? :

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

thanks for coming in.
No rust on the dash frame at all. no rust on the seat frames
I did remove the frame and checked the bolts that attach it to the body--its all good.
I am not sure what blocks are being mentioned---now the multiple grounding blocks that are attached to the harness are all good?
I have a separate interior harness--- any idea where these blocks are so I can look for them to have an idea of where they are located?
Remember ALL functions of the car are working--all keyless stuff--including ignition switch, all lights, stereo, horn, dash, lcd screen, cigar lighter, air bags, seat belt pre tensioners etc.
The only thing i cant check is the cruise control. The obdII port itself has been replaced to insure all pin connections are good.
I have good power to the obd port pin 16, the high speed/low speed pins have approx 2.5 volts with switch on, the 2 grounds are good. when i turn the ig switch to start I hear one relay working in the engine bay fuse box--but thats it, no fuel pump activation, no crank. The starter works fine with a remote switch.
The security system also is flashing no contact with pcm 1-6 pattern.

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

Have you checked for bent pins on the security box or PCM plugs? One of the high lows could also be shorted to one another. Maybe when you get a chance check for continuity between all the pins on the obd and let us know the results.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

no bent pins--already did that. Remember all the wireless stuff works too. If a pin was at fault somewhere in that system then I guess you would see some symptom somewhere? It controls a lot of stuff.
There is one small thing I have noticed. The doors curtosy lights---they will not ever go out when a door is open. Arent they supposed to be on a timer?

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Yea i think they shut off after a few mins. I know mine does. This is an interesting issue OD ... i wish we lived closer so i could help.

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

I have no idea about the door thing. I can tell you that Many systems will run fine without the Can Bus operational and may communicate with other systems on a different network then the Can bus.

I wish I knew where the can bus signal originated from. I would guess the PCM but I could be wrong.

If I had the car I would check the the pins on the OBD and make sure none had continuity with the others, pull everything I could apart again and check over all connections, cable tie down spots and where applicable apply dielectric grease.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Each module in the vehicle sends out CAN signals, PCM, TCM, TPM, etc. The main "hub" so to speak is the gauge cluster where you will find twisted pairs and terminators and such if I remember correctly. Might be a good idea to really do some investigative work there.

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

I Agree, This car has had blown a fuse on the back of the gauge cluster before. I believe there are two back there and one of the two popped in the past. I know they are a bit(h to get to but I think it is worth a try and cannot be much worse then being under there checking each wire pin by pin.

I wish I had the nice factory FSM for the wiring in front of me so I could better fallow along.