blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

Well if all goes to plan I'll be picking up a 22k mile 2010 RX-8 very soon. I've been looking at these cars for some time and finally decided to go for it. I will be putting it to good use; daycare runs, commuting, AX and HPDE events, possibly on track as soon as next week if everything lines up...

Before that, I figure I should take care of some basic maintenance. I've done the searching and reading but am looking for some feedback here to make sure I have it all correct.

I know the car has made at least 2 dealer visits in its life, but I am not sure of the exact history (I know, I'm an idiot you don't have to tell me...) so I'm thinking I'll be changing the oil immediatly, and inspecting the air, cabin filter & plugs... According to this, the latter 3 should all have been replaced by now due to age rather than mileage: http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...010_RX8_MS.pdf

Oil, but which kind? Wow, that's a minefield and then some. I'd rather get synth if I can so it survives track sessions...

According to the "new owners start here" thread, it really doesn't matter and I should just go with the Mazda recommended 5w20 mineral oil, but these guys seem to think differently:

RX-8 Recommendations | Pettit Racing
RX8: Oil - Lubrication: Royal Purple Synthetic Oil - 10W30 -

OF course, they are both trying to make a profit, so...?

I think I'm going to go with royal purple... then what weight? 10w30 would seem to be a good starting point and I'll get an oil analysis done after I track it.
https://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-...ht-oil-189063/

Hang on, there are 3 different types of royal purple too :-| I'm going to go with the basic API certified one since the engine is still under warrenty (so no synerlec for me)

I'll pick up an OEM s2 oil filter (PN: N3R1-14-302) locally, or are there some aftermarket ones that have the correct by-pass pressure now?

Plugs, leads, coils. How long do leads and coils last in an s2? From reading on here it seems like they would be due on an s1, but I saw the s2 has improved coil ventilation and a newer PN on the coils as well and so the oem ones seem to last over 30k miles.
Is there anyway to easily test coils and leads, or do I wait till I get failure symptoms and cross my fingers that does not result in a cat failure or other issue?

Plugs I am looking at are 2x NGK RE7C-L and 2x NGK RE9B-T.
Gap info for the S1 (I assume the S2 is the same):
Standard: 1.15-1.25mm (0.046-0.049in) Max: Leading side: 1.5mm (0.059 in), Trailing side: 1.4mm (0.055 in)

Before taking it on track I'll do: brake/clutch fluid, pads and alignment.

Did I miss anything?
What about power steering fluid?

jrx13

Just read through your post really quick, but there is no power steering fluid.

It's electric assisted steering.

xexok

Where do you live? That makes a difference when choosing your oil weight. I just change mine every 3k miles so I don't bother with synthetic as that would get pricey. Just go with the oem filter, I'm not sure if any aftermarket have the correct by-pass pressure.

If you want to be worry free about your coils you should invest in the BHR coil kit as they should not need to be changed out like the oem ones. A set of OEM coils can be had for $240 from mazmart so if you were to buy those twice then you basically paid for the BHR kit. I replaced my coils at about 30k miles with an OEM set. You can also go with cheaper brands from autozone/checkers, lots of people do.

You shouldn't really need to gap the plugs, I have heard of people breaking the iridium tip. They should be fine from the factory but you can double check them. Just be very careful with the tips.

If you just go into autozone/checkers and ask for plugs for a 2004 rx8 you can get the proper ones. When I went in and asked for 2009 rx8 plugs they did not have the NGK ones you listed in the system for that year, maybe it is fixed now but it was just easier to say it was a 2004.

ASH8

/\ Agree with the above, personally I use a 15W40 Dino for MY S2 8, change oil every 5000 KMS (3000 Miles), I feel the same about using synthetics.

ONLY use Genuine N3R1 Oil Filter as I still know of no aftermarket brand with correct by pass rating,
I somehow don't think we will see aftermarket either as there are only about 26,000 Series 2's made world wide, so the market is VERY small...however, if we see a new 16X, I believe it will use the N3R1 Oil Filter.

blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the tips. It won't see extremely cold temps most days over the winter, although there might be a few trips into the mountains.

I didn't realize the steering was electric.

I did a bit more research and it looks like I should change the MTF and rear diff fluid before taking it on track as well.

Given the cost of coils and all the other stuff I'll be doing, I'd rather wait until the original coils fail, or at least have a few more miles on them before replacing.

Iluvrevs

I have 32K miles on my OEM 2010 coils with no evidence of issues yet, owned since new and I track regularly. I change my air filter every 10K, not sure what is the norm here though. Sounds like you have a good plan and will probably find some tweaks in reading before you get it. Hope all goes well in the acquisition.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Just one suggestion : don't for coils to fail because you won't know when they do. It's not likd one day you feel it idling rough and realize a coil has died. It could run smooth with 2 dead coils and you wouldn't know until it's too late. So just make it part of your plan to get fresh ones.

xexok

Yea the reason people replace them is because they do not want to take a chance at damaging the cat which in turn can lead to engine damage if it gets bad enough. You could just go with cheap autozone coils is price is an issue or go with the OEM ones for $240 which is much less than a cat costs. Some people do not replace their coils and are still fine while others end up with problems.

kster

Your plan sounds fine, but I'd do the coils and spark plugs before hitting the track (as others have said).

FWIW, I do anywhere from 6-10 track events per year on my '09 RX-8. These are the changes I made to hopefully help the car's longevity:

- Royal Purple engine oil (5w30/5w40)
- Redline diff fluid (75w90)
- Redline tranny fluid (mt-90)
- BHR Ignition Kit
- BHR Radiator

Hope this helps.

blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

Did you happen to track before/after temps with the radiator on track? Seems like I'll have to go with the coils...

kster

I do monitor both coolant and oil temps but I'm not very studious about it (I didn't keep any data about the car's temps vs ambient temps and on which tracks). The stock radiator does a good job; but roughly speaking, the BHR radiator made a small difference.

Also keep in mind that the BHR radiator is designed for the S1 so it's not a direct fit in a S2 (the fan shroud needs some modification).

Bladecutter

I don't think we can properly express exactly how bad that idea of your is.

When the coils fail, the rotor runs rich.
The excess fuel washes the protective oil film off of the housing, increasing wear.
Increased engine wear leads to lowered compression, and trouble starting, restarting, and keeping a rotary engine running.
Excess fuel gets into the catalytic convertor, and leads to its demise.

Replacing the convertor and engine are expensive jobs.
Replacing the coils is a fraction of the cost.

If you're lucky, it fails within the warranty period.
If you're not lucky, the dealer hoses you on getting it covered under warranty.

Seems like a big risk to save very little money.

BC.

Jims5543

iTrader: (1)

It is remarkable to me that Mazda made such a huge step backward with the coil packs.

I have a 500+ HP RX7 in my garage with its stock coils, they have 88K miles on them and the last 30K miles have been under high demand.

Are the Series 2 RX8's experiencing the same coil pack failures the Series 1 cars have?

I have 17K miles on my 8 and I am wondering if I need to just get it over with and get some BHR coils now?

OP - I am impressed, you are doing some quality reading and taking the advice you are getting from external websites and here. Kudo's!!

I have been fighting with my Stealership over the oil weight, they wanted to put and 5W-20 in and I fought for the 5W-30, after reading Pettits observations I am going to push hard for the 10W-40.

They were really being difficult about the 10W-40 last time in and since I was heading to the mountains and some cold weather, I let them put in the 5W-30. Now that I am solidly in Florida until the spring, I am demanding the 10W-40 from now on.

I personally would not run synthetic because engine oil is being injected into the combustion chamber. From what I have read, synthetic does not burn well. Plus, considering the short intervals between oil changed (2K to 3K miles) it is not really worth spending the extra for synthetic.

I run Castrol GTX 20W-50 in my RX7 and change between 1500-2000 miles. I have no oil metering pump (OMP - the unit that pumps engine oil into the combustion chamber) so I could run synthetic, but it would be a waste of money.

Good luck, if you are in Florida, I hope we can cross paths at an Autocross some time. I am headin to Geneva to run with the SCCA on DEc. 9th

xexok

I changed my coils on my 09 at 30k just to be sure no problems would happen.

You are lucky the dealer you work with will change your oil to higher weights. I asked the local one here and they wanted $10 extra just to put in 5w30 and refused to go any higher. I change my own oil now and use 10w40, I only wanted them to change it once when I did not have time.

Jims5543

iTrader: (1)

I have a 60k 5 year warranty on the car, so I am trying to keep the dealer in the loop, so if something goes south, there is not arguing.

They may charge extra for the 10W-40, I have to go in next week for another change and I am planning on going around with them on this, even printing Pettits article.

Also, the lead tech there is a Rotorhead, he has a couple of rotary cars, so he is in the know, he is just not going by the book, when we both know the oil weight is too low.

I am lucky there, the service tech tends to yield to the calls of the lead rotary tech.

I will report back next week when I take her in.

ASH8

HUH...

OE FC Coils are $1600
OE FD Coils are $500
OE FE Coils are $240,
there is your reason WHY Mazda (Ford) did what they did for RX-8 (partly)..

The S2 'B' Coils, and I would think the new S2 'C' RX-8 coils (NA in USA so far) appear to go the distance.??

Jims5543

iTrader: (1)

Cut costs? Isn't a failing coil a leading reason for engine failure on these cars? Not well thought out.

Correct me if I am wrong, but out of all the different cars I have owned over the years, this is the first that has such a short life expectancy out of a coil pack. I know newer Porsche 911's are famous for the lower coils failing due to water getting to them and causing them to crack.

When I switched to a REW in my FC there was some debate whether or not to use the FD coil packs, we tried to wire them up to the Motec and were getting frustrated. We decided to just use the FC coils and I am happy we did, they have held up perfectly.

I have been toying with ordering the BHR Coils and throwing them on a shelf in my garage, this way my OEM coils will never fail.

ASH8

Coils are not the 'leading' reason why Renesis engines fail...never have been.

Yes a failing coil will result in a failing ignition, but not engine.

Engines are renewed because compression are not within spec...

This can only happen because Apex Seal or Side Seals are again worn or stuck because of lack of lubricating oil and where it is distributed, and or carbon build up.

The old 'coolant entry' occurs no more or less than any other rotary made since 1985, Renesis use the exact same Housing Seals as an FC.

I will repeat again..the majority of Coil failure has been the original and 'A' iterations.
The B's used on the 40th anniversary S1 (2008) and then S2's have not been numerous, but neither were their cars sales...the C's were born late last year Sept, 2011.

xexok

Ash I was under the impression that failing coils lead to failing cats from all the excess fuel which can lead to a failing engine because of back pressure which causes lots of excess heat if the owner does not fix it promptly. I'm sure with the back pressure it could also do damage to the engine in some other ways than just the heat it produces. Maybe I am not saying what happens exactly but from looking at this forum frequently that is what I have come to understand.

Jims5543

iTrader: (1)

Saved me from typing.

Thanks!

That was my impression too.

ASH8

From Japan and Australian MMC contacts the 'majority' of 2004-2008 or Renny I Engine failures have been because of under specification Compressions.

Irregular Apex Seal and Side Seal purchase from a lack of Lubrication..OIL.
Many with stuck down Apex Seal/Spring from Carbon, that is why Dealers are requested to do the 300mil internal soaking of internals with Engine Oil or ATF or Seafoam.

In the early years a few (failed engines) were crated up and sent from USA, Europe, Australia back to Japan.
(Remember when MMC requested a few owners to donate their original working engines in 2006 for a brand new one??).
RENESIS I engine data was taken from cracked open engines in Japan (thousands) and Australia (many), examined by MMC Engineers (Japan) with all the resources they have.

End results were all the updates Mazda did to Series II or Renny II in 2009~, all done to address the data recovered from these failed (spec) engines...and transmission and some suspension problems...

The updated 'B' Ignition Coils were carried over from 2008 40th Anniversary Model, some 2000 units worldwide.

YES, a failing Ignition system is bad for Engine (lubrication) and CAT (fuel dump/burn), but is was not and is not the main cause...many Series 1 owners who had Ignition issues had Coils renewed, sometimes Spark Plugs and Wires and went on their way for many many more miles of motoring.

************************************************** **************

IF you are a Series II owner, YES, I would naturally recommend owners to keep an eye out on your ignition system, I would hope an owner would be able to notice/feel the very slow degradation in performance/starting and act early.

However, replacing Coils is not what I would call a ''S2 maintenance'' issue, which is what this thread is about.

At 45,000 KMS MY 2009 'B' Ignition Coils still appear to be as good as new as my car starts and fires as good as it did when brand new..in fact still fires up faster that my 2011 Miata.

If you wish to start a new thread discussing all the Series II engine failures because of bad Coils and because of CAT* failures then please start a new thread and those owners can comment.

In the meantime a 2010 S2 with ONLY 22,000 miles does not need new Coils.

* CAT's in Series II were also upgraded.