2011 R3: Thoughts on my 30k mile maintenance?
09-06-2014, 07:19 PM
#26
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It's not really important. I can argue the case for any one of the ignition options over the others, and those arguments will virtually all be based in personal preference or personal financial situation.
The only ignition i have a problem with people going for is counterfeit ebay garbage.
I just enjoy a debate
The only ignition i have a problem with people going for is counterfeit ebay garbage.
I just enjoy a debate
09-06-2014, 08:09 PM
#27
Alrighty. Thanks for the reassurance.
So, a few points:
You're right -- I don't "know" per se. I can't, because I am not and will never be privy to the information.
So, if I'm going to make a buying decision, I have to ask two questions.
First: given that the rev. C coils were intended for use in all RX-8s ever made, is it reasonable to assume that Mazda tested them on some Renesis engines first? I think so.
Second: is it reasonable to believe that BHR knows the application better than Mazda does, and did equal or better work in testing? I don't think so.
In the end, it's the huge number of testimonials behind the BHR kit on the one hand, vs. the extra measure of warranty-related safety, lower price, and warm-and-fuzzy OEness of the rev. C coils. Tough call, but I feel like I have to lean toward the latter. As RIWWP said, it comes down to personal preference.
For what it's worth, I only just got my 8 a few months ago, so I haven't been through the horror of... anything, really, let alone the early ignition coils. I can understand if people who have had those experiences aren't exactly sanguine about OE coils. Maybe I'll change my mind in a few dozen thousand miles...
This is only true IF the inputs and conditions are the same. Do we know that in this case? Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- but as far as I've been able to tell, all we know for sure is that the inputs and conditions are... whatever they need to be for the D585 coils to work reasonably well.
"Fulfill" seems obvious. Otherwise, the stuff wouldn't work.
"Surpass" is what I have difficulty with, at least compared to the rev. C coils. Are there any specifics?
So, a few points:
So, if I'm going to make a buying decision, I have to ask two questions.
First: given that the rev. C coils were intended for use in all RX-8s ever made, is it reasonable to assume that Mazda tested them on some Renesis engines first? I think so.
Second: is it reasonable to believe that BHR knows the application better than Mazda does, and did equal or better work in testing? I don't think so.
In the end, it's the huge number of testimonials behind the BHR kit on the one hand, vs. the extra measure of warranty-related safety, lower price, and warm-and-fuzzy OEness of the rev. C coils. Tough call, but I feel like I have to lean toward the latter. As RIWWP said, it comes down to personal preference.
For what it's worth, I only just got my 8 a few months ago, so I haven't been through the horror of... anything, really, let alone the early ignition coils. I can understand if people who have had those experiences aren't exactly sanguine about OE coils. Maybe I'll change my mind in a few dozen thousand miles...
"Surpass" is what I have difficulty with, at least compared to the rev. C coils. Are there any specifics?
Last edited by IamFodi; 09-06-2014 at 08:35 PM.
09-06-2014, 10:52 PM
#28
40th anniversary Edition
Listen IamFodi, I don't know how many years experience and knowledge you have about oem parts being better designed and tested than aftermarket. Your opinions are welcome. As far as rotary engines and cars go, over the past forty plus years or so there have been great advances in a myriad of rotary performance parts made by Mazda and there have also been great advances made in rotary car and engine parts made by specialty builders such as Racing Beat, Pettit Racing and BHR etc.
I love Mazda too, but don't knock the aftermarket ,specialty shops and what they can produce. There have been times when the aftermarket engineers have produced a part that has surpassed the performance and reliability of the oem part. These aftermarket developed parts have often been a wakeup call for Mazda to better design their own weaker oem parts. The history is there whether you believe it or not. I have lived this history, and bought these parts and used them in over a million rotary miles driven, and spent countless thousands of dollars in the pursuit of the most reliable performance on my seven rotary cars for street and track.
Mazda would love your loyalty to their supposed "superiority" but reality is that there are parts of our rotary cars that could use better testing and reliability and overall performance from the factory. Just look no further than the threads of this club forum. Love the brand but don't be blind to other sources for performance upgrades, and upgrades that won't harm your warranty. Does it really matter to me what ignition parts you like better or feel safer owning ? Of course not . Use what you like. All we can do in this forum is lead you to the water. It is up to you whether you wish to drink it. Cheers !
I love Mazda too, but don't knock the aftermarket ,specialty shops and what they can produce. There have been times when the aftermarket engineers have produced a part that has surpassed the performance and reliability of the oem part. These aftermarket developed parts have often been a wakeup call for Mazda to better design their own weaker oem parts. The history is there whether you believe it or not. I have lived this history, and bought these parts and used them in over a million rotary miles driven, and spent countless thousands of dollars in the pursuit of the most reliable performance on my seven rotary cars for street and track.
Mazda would love your loyalty to their supposed "superiority" but reality is that there are parts of our rotary cars that could use better testing and reliability and overall performance from the factory. Just look no further than the threads of this club forum. Love the brand but don't be blind to other sources for performance upgrades, and upgrades that won't harm your warranty. Does it really matter to me what ignition parts you like better or feel safer owning ? Of course not . Use what you like. All we can do in this forum is lead you to the water. It is up to you whether you wish to drink it. Cheers !
Last edited by gwilliams6; 09-06-2014 at 11:23 PM.
09-07-2014, 06:58 AM
#29
Are you trying to convince me that the big car maker sometimes get it wrong and the aftermarket sometimes get it right? If so, no worries -- I'm already there.
My admittedly limited experience is from BMWs, and there's no shortage of instances in which BMW couldn't be bothered to get something right and the aftermarket had to step in. My last car was an E36 M3. It needed its unibody reinforced because BMW hadn't seen fit to sufficiently reinforce some of the mounting areas for the rear trailing arms. This is a known issue with zero solution from BMW and simple and effective solutions from the aftermarket. There were VANOS failures that BMW never seemed to get locked down better than the aftermarket did. There were issues with the rear subframe that I was lucky enough toe escape somehow. Again, no solution from BMW, but good solutions from the aftermarket. E46 owners had it just as bad; the issues with the subframe got fixed at the expense of the unibody on the coupes (hello >$10k repair if you do it right), which BMW didn't address until literally the last year of the E46, and early S54s had rod bearing issues that BMW ignored for as long as it could. The list goes on.
A lot of those problems are especially notable because they have to do with chassis and suspension, which are probably the two things BMW is most noted for. And then there's the fact that this stuff kept happening on M cars, which are supposed to be track-worthy...
So, yeah. I'm new to this car and to Mazda generally; I'm not new to the idea that sometimes OE just sucks and the aftermarket needs to step in and do it right.
My admittedly limited experience is from BMWs, and there's no shortage of instances in which BMW couldn't be bothered to get something right and the aftermarket had to step in. My last car was an E36 M3. It needed its unibody reinforced because BMW hadn't seen fit to sufficiently reinforce some of the mounting areas for the rear trailing arms. This is a known issue with zero solution from BMW and simple and effective solutions from the aftermarket. There were VANOS failures that BMW never seemed to get locked down better than the aftermarket did. There were issues with the rear subframe that I was lucky enough toe escape somehow. Again, no solution from BMW, but good solutions from the aftermarket. E46 owners had it just as bad; the issues with the subframe got fixed at the expense of the unibody on the coupes (hello >$10k repair if you do it right), which BMW didn't address until literally the last year of the E46, and early S54s had rod bearing issues that BMW ignored for as long as it could. The list goes on.
A lot of those problems are especially notable because they have to do with chassis and suspension, which are probably the two things BMW is most noted for. And then there's the fact that this stuff kept happening on M cars, which are supposed to be track-worthy...
So, yeah. I'm new to this car and to Mazda generally; I'm not new to the idea that sometimes OE just sucks and the aftermarket needs to step in and do it right.
Last edited by IamFodi; 09-07-2014 at 07:03 AM.
09-07-2014, 11:53 AM
#32
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It ain't moot when dealing with engine electronics. We're not talking about fluids, air filter, a stereo, or a cat back. We talkin' bout engine electronics. If the engine blows, Mazda will try to deny that warranty claim. Wires, fine. Coils? No thanks. Not worth the argument at the dealer.
09-07-2014, 12:33 PM
#34
Originally Posted by lakersfan1
It ain't moot when dealing with engine electronics. We're not talking about fluids, air filter, a stereo, or a cat back. We talkin' bout engine electronics. If the engine blows, Mazda will try to deny that warranty claim. Wires, fine. Coils? No thanks. Not worth the argument at the dealer.
The surpassing stock that I mentioned is in some areas of performance, specifically coil longevity and spark quality potential. I say spark potential because, while the ECU on our cars can drive the coils just fine with the stock settings (most notably the stock dwell), they are actually being very underdriven based on tested values. That's right! They could be delivering a potentially much more powerful spark, but since no-one has taken any data using the stock settings we will never know. The thing is, the people that have done it don't care about the lack of data because it seems to work better than stock.
AGAIN, the thing that no-one seems to get is that we currently have NO WAY of knowing if the sparks coming from these coils is better than those from a new set of ANY revision of the OEM coils. That is only inferred.
I've probably done more research on this than most people that have done this mod, and my reasonings are posted in my Car Log thread if you want to read them.
09-07-2014, 02:37 PM
#35
It ain't moot when dealing with engine electronics. We're not talking about fluids, air filter, a stereo, or a cat back. We talkin' bout engine electronics. If the engine blows, Mazda will try to deny that warranty claim. Wires, fine. Coils? No thanks. Not worth the argument at the dealer.
Walk into the dealership with that if they give you trouble .... they tried to give me a hard time for modifying suspension when i went in for a warranty fix on my differential. They called mazda NA, next thing you know i have a free rental and repairs were made to my diff free of charge.
09-08-2014, 07:21 AM
#36
40th anniversary Edition
IamFodi, just for the record,my Mazda dealer is the largest in the metro Philly area and one of the biggest volume Mazda dealerships on the east coast. My Mazda dealer actually installed my BHR coils and wires. They noted the quality of the kit and loved its performance as they test drove the car, as always , after the servicing. They said that absolutely there is NO warranty issue with upgrading the coils to the BHR kit and they are fully acknowledging the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, of which they keep a copy of in their two Philly area Mazda dealerships. This dealership has also previously installed my Racing Beat screens for the oil coolers and radiator and again said there is NO warranty issue with adding these quality aftermarket parts. And they also previously installed my Mazdaspeed CAI, which of course has NO Mazda warranty issues. And they said they would have treated the AEM CAI the same, knowing it is the same quality part as the Mazdaspeed CAI.
All this dealership asks me to do for my warranty is to do the oil changes with them , and get this , with this dealership for any new car buyer, lifetime scheduled oil changes are done FREE ! We do my RX8 oil changes every 3000 miles and since the Mazda official maintenance schedule says oil changes every 5000 miles, the dealership gives me every other oil change for free. I stay ahead of the Mazda maintenance schedule and follow the guidelines posted here in RIWWPs thread, so I replace parts and fluids and clean sensors etc. well ahead of the Mazda schedule and it has worked to keep my car at top performance, with only a fuel pump change at 54,000 miles.
I know none of this info will change your mind, but just wanted you to know my facts. This dealership gives all their new car purchases a full powertrain warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles , which covers in addition to Mazda's rotary engine 8yr/100,000 mile warranty. This dealership has easily sold and serviced the most RX8s in our Philly area and knows these cars well and knows their strengths and weaknesses.
All this dealership asks me to do for my warranty is to do the oil changes with them , and get this , with this dealership for any new car buyer, lifetime scheduled oil changes are done FREE ! We do my RX8 oil changes every 3000 miles and since the Mazda official maintenance schedule says oil changes every 5000 miles, the dealership gives me every other oil change for free. I stay ahead of the Mazda maintenance schedule and follow the guidelines posted here in RIWWPs thread, so I replace parts and fluids and clean sensors etc. well ahead of the Mazda schedule and it has worked to keep my car at top performance, with only a fuel pump change at 54,000 miles.
I know none of this info will change your mind, but just wanted you to know my facts. This dealership gives all their new car purchases a full powertrain warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles , which covers in addition to Mazda's rotary engine 8yr/100,000 mile warranty. This dealership has easily sold and serviced the most RX8s in our Philly area and knows these cars well and knows their strengths and weaknesses.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 09-08-2014 at 07:40 AM.
09-08-2014, 11:44 AM
#39
40th anniversary Edition
In addition, if ever you need any RX8 and rotary engine work done in the Philly metro area, and for some reason don't want to use the dealership I recommended, or do it yourself, you are in luck. JPR Imports is nearby in Blackwood ,NJ (another Philly suburb, off RT. 42 South) Jim there is a well-known expert rotary wrench with decades of experience and has built and worked on all rotary models including stock and race and drag rotaries. He is whom I had change my fuel pump at 54,000 miles when I switched to a DW200 pump bought from BHR. Jim had all the Mazda factory tools needed to do the job, did the pop-off cap modification, filter screen cleaning and gave me a more reasonable labor bill than my dealer could. The dealer was stuck with the Mazda workshop job hours quote. But otherwise I am lucky to have a good dealer that has good rotary mechanics.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 09-08-2014 at 11:51 AM.
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