nos879

Hey all,

I was driving on the way to an appointment, going about 80MPH and all of a sudden the vehicle started to lose power. I ended up on the shoulder and the car was eventually towed to the closest dealership (not the one that I have a relationship with). The car just "ticks" when you try to start it, it doesn't even get to crank and there are no CELs.

The car is a 2009 Mazda RX8 GT 6spd with 85K on the odometer and has a re-manufactured engine with less than 12K. All coils, wires, and plugs were replaced during that time. I have about 3K until the next oil change, and a oil check over the weekend had decent levels.

Right off the bat, they say since the Rx8 is a "special" vehicle they charge $280 for the diagnostic, instead of the "normal" $136. Not to mention the guy was extremely rude and the service area for Mazda is just a desk, the car had to be dropped off at Infiniti.

The following day they called saying that they found multiple issues:
Fuel Pump Failure - $700 Repair Cost ( I don't know if they pulled it out, or anything)
Ignition Coil #2 Trailing (which was replaced not too long ago) - $215
Battery "failed" their test.
They did not test the Alternator.

+ Miscellaneous

Front / Rear Pads Change
Front / Rear Rotor Change
Manual Tranmission Fluid Change

---Question---

With the information provided, what could be the issue for the sudden loss of power?

And which of any of the parts are necessary to get the car started again?

Thanks!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Fuel pump failure could easily be the problem and the symptoms fit. It is something you can change yourself for far cheaper. The fuel pump typically fails through overheating, and it will work again when it cools back down, typically around 20 minutes with the ignition off, so you can probably get it home without a tow truck.

nos879

Hmm well they said the $280 diagnostic fee would go towards a repair. Should I apply that to some of the changes or seek another course of action?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

An example of the price difference: http://www.partswebsite.com/mazmart/...31815&fl_id=45
I believe that is the price for the entire pump assembly (pump and the mounting frame and wiring). The 2004-2008 OEM pump itself is $75 from BHR, though I don't know if it is compatible with the 2009-2011 or not, or if the S2 pump itself (rather than assembly) is available through the same channels

Even if the overinflated diagnostics fee goes to the price of the pump replacement, they are still charging you $500 in labor for an easily accessed fuel pump (behind a panel underneath the left rear seat). If I was in your shoes, I'd cut my losses and take my car back. Even if you buy the whole assembly from Mazmart, you are still saving $250ish, plus whatever else they want to foist on you. If you find a place to get just the pump the savings will be even more.

nos879

Thanks! Do you think there is any issue with the coils like they suggested? Or potential battery failure? Or alternator issues? I tried to ask more questions, the guy became more and more frustrated and just said he would ask the tech tomorrow. It makes it more challenging b/c the "Mazda" service area doesn't see the vehicle, they have to talk to the Infiniti Dealer (same group) down the road.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The symptoms that you describe fit with fuel pump failure, and it isn't unheard of to see failures past 60k. The dealer agrees (which is perhaps a mark against it, since they are rarely right).

Replacing a battery is simple and easily done, but you can always get it re-tested at an autoparts store for free to confirm first. It would be worth doing before a fuel pump replacement.

If the battery checks out fine, or the problem persists after replacing the battery, then I'd address the fuel pump.

Leave the coils alone if they only have 12,000 miles on them. You can test the coils with a $5 tool available at most autoparts stores if you are concerned about them, but I wouldn't be.

I see no reason to suspect an alternator problem.

djgiron

Actually I had the same thing happen to my 85 Rx7 and it was a bad altenator (which then caused a bad battery). The alternator failed a few days before and the car was running only off the battery (i rarely drove at night and was spring so minimal accessories) and the car lost power and then just died while driving it (power failure). It would just tick when trying to start it (like having a dead battery). Had a friend tow it to the nearest autoparts store to test the alternator and battery and both were toast. Replaced them and it was fine. Obviously my car was older than yours so I am not sure if the 8 can run off just battery power with a bad alternator like they used to. Most autoparts stores will test the alternator and battery for free (they want to sell you both so why not).

nos879

Thanks! I'll look into this. They said the battery failed, but they didn't offer much besides that.It just sucks that the vehicle is already there and I can't just take it and also pay $280!

Yea djgiron, the problem you're describing is what happens now, it just "ticks." I wish I would have towed it to a nearby shop or something, so they actually let me know what's wrong, but insurance would only tow the vehicle to the closest dealership . Did you replace the alternator yourself or did you take it to a dealership?

Again thanks both for your responses.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You should be able to just pay the diagnostics fee and take it back. They have no legal authority to keep the car if the already-rendered services are paid for, and they can't conduct any service and then charge you for it without your pre-authorization.

Yeah, sucks that you have to pay that fee, but you will have to pay that either way now, so it's unavoidable. The question is how much more you are willing/able to pay. It may be worth a complaint to MNAO for the elevated diagnostics fee, but you probably won't get it reduced ahead of time.

djgiron

I replaced it myself, however I had access to a shop and any tool I could ever need as one of my friends owns a shop. It isn't too hard to replace an alternator in an older car, not sure about a newer car though.

nos879

Yea that's what it sounds like what I need to do. They just called me and said that the issue that the car won't start at all is because of the bad fuel pump. And I asked if he was able to check the fuel pump and he said that they can't do that if the car doesn't work.

And I asked if they tested with different battery and he said he couldn't give me an answer b/c the Mazda "service" area is 1/2 mile from where the car is actually being serviced.

I'm just trying to get the diagnostic fee down to a normal amount. I am thinking of contacting MNAO, just to document the whole issue and the poor treatment. Any suggestions?

Thanks! I looked at a few vids and does look possible with some friends with more mechanical experience than I do.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Um, this is a rather ignorant comment. You can pull it out of the car and test it on a bench easily. You can test it on battery power easily.

You are removing any remaining confidence i had in the dealership.

CG-LockRacer

What dealer? I have had issues with one in particular.

nos879

That's the next part I was going to tell the employee, but he said he would call me back in a few minutes, that was over 1hr ago.

I just figure if you're going to charge a $280 diagnostic fee, I should at least get some diagnostics. I asked for the service tech and service manager number and he was unwilling to provide it and asked "why do you need that?"

Suburban Mazda of Troy if I had it my way I would at the one at Brighton, but it was too costly to tow there.

rotaryman13

I agree with djgiron, if the car isn't even turning over, you have a power issue. I would go there with some booster cables and if it starts, ask for your money back. It could have a dead pump, but it would still turn over. Might be just an alternator. If the battery light stays on after you remove the booster cables, you can be pretty certain that it is the alternator. It will also die again shortly after removing the cables.

xexok

If you have never replaced the battery then it is definitely time to do that. I live in a much hotter climate but I am on my third battery (stock>2>3) so far since I bought the car in 2010. When my battery died the first time it was working perfectly throughout the day then I stopped at a store and it would only click. It never showed any signs of struggling before that.

A jump did fix it to get me home, so I also agree you should at least try that and then go from there on your own. It can't hurt to replace the fuel pump as riwwp said.

Bladecutter

I have to ask:

Before your car died, were there any red lights that were lit up on your dash?

It sounds like you have a dead battery, and that could be caused by a bad alternator, but usually if this is the case, then you would have seen a red light on your dash for several hours before your car would just turn off.

Also, if you don't know how to change an alternator, or a battery, you should probably find someone to do it for you. Both are really easy tasks on the RX-8, but if you don't know what you're doing, you're better off letting someone else do it.

BC.

nos879

UPDATE:

So after all my difficulties, it seemed to be a simple issue. I don't know if it was a freak situation where something was being misread by the gas gauge or what. But, when we brought the vehicle back to the office (tow), we charged the battery and added some gas. After a few difficult cranks, it started right up.

I can't explain why the gas registered at half a tank and then "failed," there could be another lingering issue, not yet sure. But this simple temporary solution / fix could have been solved by the dealership by simply adding gas. I was just in shock to see that they were willing to charge me $700 for the fuel pump, $215 for the battery, and like $210 for one ignition coil--but didn't bother putting gas in the vehicle.

Either way, I appreciate everyone's help and hope the situation doesn't occur again.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

You could still have a fuel pump issue.

nos879

Yea that's what I'm worried about. They just had mentioned that to get it up and running I would need several things, that ultimately weren't necessary. And they wouldn't provide proof that they had looked/tested/inspected the fuel pump.