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What I'm trying to figure out at this point is that bit of wiring that comes with the Series 1 kits. I'm pretty sure people are saying it's necessary in a Series 2 as well. That the Series 2 kit doesn't come with that bit of wiring could be due to either it not being necessary, or the market being too small to have been able to justify developing it. That latter scenario continues with the Series 1 wiring working in the Series 2, they just never bothered to find out for sure. It really could go either way...
Is there anyone who has installed an audio system in an S2 that can clarify the need or lack of need for the bit of wiring in the S1 Metra kit?
I think what I'm going to do is round everything up and proceed as if I don't need the S1 Metra kit. If it turns out I do for some reason, it seems pretty readily available on Amazon. I intend to do this whole project around the time I shut the RX-8 down for the season (I have a few other projects also being done in that timeframe), so I still have a little time to figure this out...
Last edited by spectre6000; 09-08-2022 at 09:46 AM.
I just ordered the iDatalink Maestro RR, the S2 Metra kit, and the wiring harness. Definitely an interesting experience there... I started out looking for the RR2, figuring I don't mind paying a little extra in the event I want the extra features I don't currently understand (there are some trigger relays or something in addition to the bluetooth control that might be interesting), but they're basically not available.... Similar story with the wiring harness. A single open box (complete?) kit from some rando on eBay, and that's the entirety of the US market. I ended up ordering a kit out of Canada.
That's all of the supporting cast (I think), so now I actually need to pick a head unit... I did a little research a while ago, but never came to an absolute conclusion on which one I want to go with. I guess that's my next step...
I'm thinking the Pioneer AVH-W4500NEX. It will work, checks my boxes, looks OK with the interior when it's off, and the lights can be made to be at least close to the factory color scheme when it's on... Anyone know anything or have any experience or opinions before I pull the trigger?
Probably not very well.
most newer head units will have an external mic that you plug in and wire up.
A pillar or up near the mirror are some of the more common mounting places.
The 4500 Nex looks pretty nice.
What's it go for ?
I flipped through the service manual last night, and figured out where the factory mic is. Seems it accompanies a "Hands Free Phone Unit", or something similarly worded, that lives between the back seats. I've used the factory phone feature, and haven't had any complaints about the mic. Once I install the new head unit, that hands free phone unit will be redundant, and I might take it out. If I'm lucky (and you, @Jedi54 may know the answer to this), it'll have its own harness. If I'm even more lucky, I'll be able to track down a spare plug. If my lucky streak continues, that microphone will have the same 2 wires that most every other microphones have, and I'll be able to whip up an 1/8" jack pigtail for it. Worst case scenario, I'll remove what I can still, and place the aftermarket mic where the factory one is. I have zero interest in weird little aftermarket detritus littering my interior, so if I can't do that, I might just leave it out... We'll see.
Tough to say what it goes for to be honest... Seems Pioneer (and much of the car audio industry) is not doing so hot in terms of covid shortages/logistics problems. For instance, the wiring harness is practically non-existent in the US save a single rando on eBay with an open box. I had to order that out of Canada. The RR2 doesn't exist anywhere I could find. The head unit is sold out at most places as well. I found an eBay seller that had it listed lower than most places by a trivial amount, but with free shipping. I sent a best offer, and we landed at $830. Then it turns out the free shipping is FedEx ground, and that's not really an option where I live. I mean... technically it exists, but I am not exaggerating one bit when I say the local FedEx ground contractor has destroyed EVERY. SINGLE. PACKAGE. I've had the misfortune of being unable to redirect from them for this entire calendar year. I mean, boxed up steel trailer wheels, all four, destroyed. I took an entire trailer full of scrap to the recycle center comprised almost entirely of mangled shrapnel courtesy of FedEx because two companies couldn't figure out how to ship things any other way and it took a half dozen attempts each for them to finally get enough parts through (one eventually ended up sending twice as many parts hoping half would make it, and the other finally managed to talk to their shipping department and get them to package the box in a box in a box, and all the extra packaging made it through well enough). Absolutely nothing has makes it through. I contacted the seller to try to make arrangements to have it shipped any other way, but this was last night (Saturday), and I haven't heard back yet. I'm not going to click the final button until I know I stand a chance of getting what I paid for without having to deal with multiple rounds of FedEx returns.
I have everything (I thought!) in hand, this weekend was intended to be install time. I got the car gutted, and have started to get things installed, and I've hit a snag. The factory radio has 3 plugs: one is the radio antenna (no concerns here), and then there are two others with proprietary plugs. The Pioneer head comes with an entirely different plug/pigtail, and it mostly terminates in RCA plugs. It seems like there's supposed to be one more kit that I'm missing. Or am I supposed to hack up the factory plug, in which case, I'd need a pinout diagram or something... I kind of thought that between all the adapters and harnesses, I had what I needed. Turns out I'm almost certainly missing something mission critical. Can anyone point me in the right direction here?
That's two sides of the same plug. I've been able to ascertain that most of the wires on that plug are audio specific, but I haven't been able to figure out the complete pinout. The other plug is the total mystery. I found reference last night to it somewhere related to the satellite radio function, but that was two wires of the 2+x. As soon as/if I can get clear this morning, I'll go out to the shop and grab the manual. There might be some information in there about the satellite radio modules, or even harness, and that might clear it up the rest of the way. Nothing I've been able to find re: radio replacement makes any reference to it.
Here's the female only version of the plug/pigtail that would be needed if you're not also fixing a hacked up harness. If you look at the second photo, make it large, and can read backwards, you can see the identity (but not location) of 17 of the 24 wires.
Last edited by spectre6000; 09-26-2022 at 10:09 AM.
I looked in the manual. The satellite radio (in the index under "Sirius") components are referenced, but the harness specifically isn't, nor is there any mention of anything fore of the C-pillar.... Dead end...
For anyone coming along behind me: Pinout is in the Service Highlights manual p 9-20-8, and the second plug is hands free telephone and also associated with the satellite radio. Wireless CarPlay negates the telephone stuff, and satellite radio is its own standalone thing with my aftermarket stereo at least.
Meanwhile, here's where I'm at on this....
While digging around trying to find a harness adapter, I discovered that the iDatalink Maestro will not retain the information display. The HVAC display would probably still work, but the clock would be unsettable, and the audio information would be blank. Or so I assume, as it appears there's just no provision for any of it... Maybe @Jedi54 can confirm this? I know you have an RR2 on an S1. Did you lose the information display?
Assuming that's correct, it's not acceptable to me. I don't want to lose any factory functionality here... So... Turns out the PAC adapter DOES work with the information display, allow setting the clock, and I think even a custom welcome message. No gauges though, and I definitely want that if I can get it. So... I bought one of those as well.
It arrived today, and I sat down with the various manuals, devices, and pigtails this evening and figured out where everything would need to be relative to one another. The Maestro RR has better steering wheel control functionality, but the PAC uses the steering wheel controls to set the clock and manage in the information display... So I'm locked into that for steering wheel controls. It doesn't seem the RR requires the steering wheel controls to display the gauges on the head unit. So... If I don't hook those up on the RR, and basically just give it access to the CAN network and plug it into the head, I think that will give me the gauges. Meanwhile, the PAC takes care of the information display and steering wheel controls. Head unit plugs and plays with the factory Bose kit, and gives me wireless CarPlay, and that should be me eating and having cake...
If anyone sees ANY issues at all with any of that, please speak up. This is my first car audio project this side of 50s vintage cars....
Tomorrow afternoon, I will be heading down to a scrap yard to try to find myself a USB/Aux input to replace the Aux input in the center console. I'm also going to try to find a decent pile of thermal insulation to put between the driveshaft hump and the console. Those cubbies get hot! I'll be hooking it all up this weekend. I'm not incredibly confident in my proposed solution up there, so I'll be hooking things up frankenstyle to test it out. Unfortunately, this is all being done in my barn with a metal roof, and there's nothing even approximating cell service where I live, so... Testing could be challenging.
Mostly done. I... I don't know if it's bench testing exactly, but I plugged it all up in the car yesterday to see what was/wasn't working. Supposedly, according to the internet and the install manuals that came with some of the devices, the 2009-2011 RX-8 (usually just denoted as "RX-8" without any acknowledgement that there were any changes in anything at any point during the production run) do not have vehicle speed or reverse gear signal data. Turns out they do. Parking brake data still doesn't appear to be on the CAN system though. The head unit I got (and I'm sure others) has a screen that shows the output from the VSS, and I was able to drive around and watch the numbers do their thing. Similarly, putting it in reverse brought up the reverse camera I don't have (black screen with a warning that the image may be reversed), so I ultimately pulled that wire from the harness. I know the reverse gear signal just brings up the camera I'm not using (I can put the wire back in the plug later if I feel like it), but I don't know that the VSS is used for anything. It could be used for volume modulation to counter NVH (would be if I were on the dev team for that product) a la the Bose Audiopilot feature, but I don't know one way or the other yet.
I haven't been taking photos really to this point, because I think it's pretty stupid to do a writeup of something if you've never done it before (looking at you, nearly every YouTuber!), but it's looking like I'll have managed to get everything installed without any externally apparent deviations from stock (other than the screen and bezel). The GPS antenna and microphone are completely hidden under trim and in stock locations. I'm still working on it, but I believe I'll have managed to replace the AUX plug in the center console with a factory looking USB/AUX plug from a different car, and that might warrant some documentation. I also snagged some thick jute for a little extra insulation under the center console while I was at the yard hunting down my USB/AUX port, and that might warrant a photo or two as well.
I'll throw up a new thread when/if I do document things to keep content organized.
I'll throw up a new thread when/if I do document things to keep content organized.
Did this new thread happen? My search came up empty. I'm curious about final project results.
I'm trying a slightly different approach: I've just learned that standalone receivers exist for Wireless CarPlay/Android Auto. Several choices are offered on Amazon, I picked this one because size of its screen is nearly identical to stock navigation screen, which is where I intend to mount it. It should arrive shortly.
Portable Car Radio Stereo Audio Receiver with Wireless Carplay&Android Auto, 7” FHD IPS Touchscreen, 1080P Backup Cam, Siri, Google Voice, FM, Bluetooth, GPS Navigation, Aux, TF Card TTXSCAM T86
This approach would retain stock Mazda audio head unit. Advantages:
+ No need to fuss with Metra dual-DIN conversion kit, reducing wiring headaches.
+ Steering wheel volume up/down/mute controls will still work.
+ Factory look (if it fits nicely in navigation hood.)
Disadvantages:
- I have a Series I (2004) which lacks factory AUX IN port, but this is solvable.
- Remaining steering wheel controls (next/previous) will do nothing.
- No gauges for extra drivetrain information.
- High dashboard temperature may cause issues.
- Disables factory navigation system, whose maps are now twenty years out of date, so I don't care.
- Probably will find more as I go...
(Has anyone already done this? If there's an existing thread my search failed to find it.)
I didn't make the thread. Didn't seem to be any interest. A thoroughly solved problem, just a new one to me. I did finally get everything installed where and how I want it and functional though. Made a really slick, factory looking harness, and managed to make achieve all of my goals. My wife is now sold on wireless CarPlay, and I'm waiting for her to give me the green light to do something similar (though likely much easier) in her Jeep. I'll probably get to my E61 first though.
I've seen multiple people talking about doing exactly what you're looking to do. The options for wireless CarPlay devices and integrations seems to be expanding daily, and the standalone options would really streamline things. The fact that the factory nav doesn't actually integrate with the car is a major bonus (on the BMW, it's tied into the car functionality in a million different ways). I don't know that I've seen anyone actually do it successfully, but that's more a matter of me not really paying attention to something that I don't have any intention of doing.
I don't know that I've seen anyone actually do it successfully, but that's more a matter of me not really paying attention to something that I don't have any intention of doing.
That's fair enough! Glad to hear you've got your own setup working in a way you're happy with. Thanks for the update, it's great encouragement for me to proceed.
You make a good point about the lack of system integration being a benefit for my proposed project. The RX-8 is a product of a transition period: Older cars won't have a convenient place to put a screen. Newer cars would have a screen, but it'd be doing too many things to be ripped out and replaced.
I didn't make the thread. Didn't seem to be any interest.
I'm interested
Post any pics of the final project if you can. I really wanted to put a Raspberry Pi screen in the nav pop-up hood, but from what I can tell there's no good way to integrate the S1 nav hood into an S2.
Ask, and ye shall receive. Here's a photo dump of everything I have. Thing about the final install is that there's really not much to see. I made sure everything looks as absolutely factory as possible, with the obvious exception of the screen where the old school radio used to be. I'll try to explain the photos as best memory will allow.
I gutted the interior for two reasons: to gain access to the phone module to remove it, and to get the GPS antenna on the rear parcel tray where it could be flat and have plenty of sky to look at through the plastic trim. I ultimately left the phone module in place, because it was smaller/lighter than I expected, and because I didn't want to mess with any CAN errors that might come out of it.
Not sure why I took this photo, but the brown/yellow pair of wires is for the OBD2 plug for the gauges. This is looking up at the steering column under the dash, and you can see where I ran the wires back through to the head unit.
I wanted to make use of the USB port that the head unit offers at least for charging since CarPlay will always be wireless, but I also didn't want to lose the Aux port. I got this piece of trim out of a later model Mazda (CX-3?), and made it fit into the RX-8 trim with a little effort.
The harness I made in the back of the head unit, et. al.
This was a failed attempt at splicing the USB port into a more easily managed form. Connectivity was fine, but data wouldn't read because the data line was generating harmonic interferences. Theoretically, if I could get the length super exact to within the wavelength of the USB spec, I could make it work, but I wasn't able to measure/cut/solder accurately enough.
More of the same failure.
I was ultimately successful with the method mentioned either here and/or elsewhere on this forum that links to a Tacoma forum. I cut the ground shield mostly off a USB patch cord, and shoved it into the Mazda proprietary plug end on the back of the plug/trim piece. I secured it with a lot of tape.
I had some issues with the Metra trim piece rattling, moving around, and not sitting very flush. Likely warped. I called them, and they sent me another. Once I understood the problem though, I simply plastic epoxied it where it's supposed to go. I would not have done so if it would have created any issues removing/servicing the head unit, so I'm sure it didn't cause any issues.
I don't know about you guys, but my cupholders and center console get bitchin' hot. While I was at the junkyard getting the aux/usb port and trim, I snagged some insulating jute from an Escalade (thick), and... a Mustang? (less thick) to try to cool things down a bit.
Escalade jute top, possible Mustang jute bottom.
Another shot of the ports in the RX-8 trim...
In progress shot of the failed splice attempt.
The harness I made to go between the head unit, the Metra interface, the whatever-the-gauges-app-device is called interface, and the car.
Once it's all hooked up, that plug in my hand goes to the car, the antenna has to be plugged in, and I think that's it... everything else is contained within the headunit/harness combo and goes in and out easily.
Another shot of the harness. The one above may have been too long on one leg, and shortened to what's seen here... It wasn't tight enough to go in and out easily, and kind of looked janky (not that anyone will likely ever see it).
I used harness tape to attach the Metra and whatever-the-gauges-app-interface-device-is-called to the bottom of the head unit. There was a nice pocket of space there, it wouldn't be hot (or any hotter than anything else), and I could make the plugs and ports all convenient for wiring/harness purposes.
Another view of the above.
One more view of the above. Whichever device that is has a premade harness, and I guess I didn't feel like shortening it. You can see the routing and how I packaged it for install between the three photos.
One more all plugged up. I think these are in the order they came out of my phone, so the above must have been pre-shortening of the one leg of the harness or something...
The stock aux port trim piece had little tabs where it's rough. The usb/aux piece is shaped 90° off compared to the stock piece such that to get it to install easily, it's sideways and can't open while installed in the console. Trimming off those tabs and maybe some more trimming were required to get it to fit and open in the correct orientation. There some wiggle room side to side, but it's a tight fit, and trim and location make seeing any gaps difficult to impossible assuming you even know they're there.
This is pretty much the finished photo... Not much to look at really... You can see down and to the left of the trim where I scratched the hell out of the interior during one fitting attempt or another.
Testing microphone placement, and apparently data screen messages. I removed the stock microphone from that location, and affixed the head unit microphone there. I talked to my wife on the phone while messing with the angles and such with the trim loosely installed. When I was happy, I put a drop of CA glue into the ball joint of the microphone mount so it couldn't move any more. The sound quality is pretty much the same as the factory unit; good, not great.
Here's what I landed on for the "P1" gauge setup. The interface has access to whatever PIDs are on the CANBUS, and a few additional computed data types. You can choose what to display. This is my grocery getting set.
This is the "on it" set.
Looks like that's alls I got. Works great. A few niggles here and there...
- If I have the gauges up, and get a text message, it'll switch to CarPlay for the text message, but instead of switching back to the gauges, it goes to the home screen, and I have to manually put it back.
- It can be a bit slow to respond to inputs in certain apps and states (mostly CarPlay).
- Sometimes (not very often, but often enough that it's clearly a thing), it won't hook up to my phone; usually if I'm getting gas or something and have it switched to ACC mode, then turn the engine on (the power drops out while starting), and then it won't be able to find my phone. Clearly something in the power cycling gets interrupted, and I think if I turn the car all the way off, wait a beat, then start it won't do it. Other times it has issues I think have to do with me not living where there's any sort of cell service at all, and it wants to use cellular data when wifi is all that exists, this is rare though.
- It's easy to attenuate the volume (turn it down very quiet) with the steering wheel button, but you have to go to the home screen to mute the volume entirely (this is annoying if you're listening to the radio, because you have to back out to the home screen before you can turn it off).
- There's some orange peel to the Metra trim piece where the factory trim is very smooth.
On the whole, those issues are pretty minor, and don't keep me from enjoying it. It's good enough that my wife wants me to do something similar with her car (2016 Jeep Rubicon), and I'm going to do something similar with the BMW I just picked up. There was clearly a learning curve (hence this thread), but once I figured out the terminology and basic relationships, it was easy cheese. Hardest part was getting the USB/Aux port to work as a USB port, but mostly because I tried to overcomplicate it in the name of simplification.
I did consider that actually. Placement requires a flat surface for the phone to sit on, preferably with some means of keeping the phone in place. That flat surface needs to have a bit of space behind it to be able to get the qi pad. About the only option is the center console halfway to the back seats. That placement presents two practical issues for me personally. 1, I would forget my phone in there every time I went anywhere. 2, I have a 3yo, and that's where the kleenex and wet wipes live, so it'd be a hassle getting things out of the way so the phone could get the correct proximity to the charger. Combined with the fact that the RX-8 is not my DD, it really didn't make a ton of sense to bother. Any time I take it out, it's not going to be a long drive, and my phone has a full charge every morning. I'm old or something, so I use my phone mostly as a phone. I rarely have issues with the battery lasting all day. If I do a LOT of driving using CarPlay on a given day, it might get low, but that's probably happened all of twice ever so far, and for that minimal frequency, I'm happy to just plug the phone into the USB port with a patch cable.
Just a PSA, as I installed my Metra Kit today along with the ATOTO F7 WE head unit. I was able to keep steering button functionality by simply connecting the green/white wire to the Steering Wheel Key (+) wire on my new head unit harness. Just had to map the buttons on the steering wheel to what I wanted in the new head unit's settings. I think modern head units can interpret the steering wheel button presses just fine. All I need to finish the install is an antenna extension as mine couldn't reach into the new head unit.
Do you have a series 1 or 2? Series 1 plays nice with the Metra adapter; series 2 does not. There are all of 5k series 2 cars sold in the US across all years compared to 30-40X that series 1s. Not much incentive from a market development perspective.
Otherwise, does the ATOTO (never heard of it) advertise some sort of steering wheel control compatibility?
Just a PSA, as I installed my Metra Kit today along with the ATOTO F7 WE head unit. I was able to keep steering button functionality by simply connecting the green/white wire to the Steering Wheel Key (+) wire on my new head unit harness. Just had to map the buttons on the steering wheel to what I wanted in the new head unit's settings. I think modern head units can interpret the steering wheel button presses just fine. All I need to finish the install is an antenna extension as mine couldn't reach into the new head unit.
@Funky Do you have a S2 with Bose audio? I’ve heard it doesn’t work for that model. I have an R3 and I’m also interested in getting the metra kit + Atoto F7.
@Funky Do you have a S2 with Bose audio? I’ve heard it doesn’t work for that model. I have an R3 and I’m also interested in getting the metra kit + Atoto F7.
I have a Series 1 with BOSE audio, and it works great. I've never appreciated how good the BOSE system is as I was using an FM transmitter before. Just make sure you wire the blue amplifier wire from the Metra Kit to the amplifier wire on the head unit harness.
I can't speak about compatibility with Series 2/R3, unfortunately.
09-08-2022, 08:44 AM
