spectre6000

This is the first car I've owned that was new enough for something like a fancy stereo to make any sense at all. Of the many cars I've been through, only maybe two had a working radio worth turning on (lots of stuff from the 50s/60s). I can build an engine in my sleep, but I've never done anything with a stereo aside from remove the remnants of aftermarket stuff that came to me in cars I bought for the drivetrain. I had a 2020 truck with CarPlay, a dongle to make it wireless, and a wireless charger, and that setup was very nice. I'd like to replicate at least the wireless CarPlay part of that. Meanwhile, I don't want to lose the functionality of the information display, steering wheel controls, etc. and I'd like to preserve the sound quality of the Bose system (I have no idea if this goes away with the stock system, or is a totally separate thing). I have zero desire for video or... I don't even know what weird bells and whistles there are. I think it would be nice to have some extra drivetrain information when I want it (I know I saw something about a head unit with gauges somewhere), but aside from that, radio and CarPlay are literally all I'm after.

I read up on the Metra kit, and it gets pretty mixed reviews. I saw a reference to a Japanese market equivalent that sounded like it might be higher quality, but found little in the way of details. I noticed the S2 version of the Metra kit ditches an electronic/harness element, and the price is much less than the S1 version, but I'm not sure that missing piece isn't something that's needed in some way.

I won't go so far as to say price is no object, but I'm also not worried about getting in and out in under $20 or some other silly cheapness. I want OEM quality if it can be had. If it can't I might just stick with stock.

So, I guess the questions are:
- Does anyone know of any quality head units with wireless Carplay, possibly some drivetrain information, and really not much else?
- Does replacing the stock CD changer mean I lose the Bose bits?
- Are there any high quality alternatives to the Metra kit?
- Etc. Walk me through this. I know just about nothing.

TIA

Laminar

Definitely interested in this. Everything I've read on Wireless Carplay is that it can get very buggy and inconsistent. I put a dual-din wired CarPlay unit in my truck and it's probably the best upgrade I ever did to it. The only downside is having to plug my phone in to get it to work, which I'm hoping to mitigate with wireless CarPlay.

Fickert

iTrader: (6)

So I'll chime in before all the older members screech "We ArE nOt HeRe To SpOoNfEeD yOu", but I will keep my response short enough to send you on your way to researching what you need to know.

1. So modern car radio replacements look very fancy and nice with a full center dash replacement with a nice carplay or android auto head unit. The rx8 does not get that luxury due to its age. The Metra kits are your best bet. I suggest the glossy metra kit. I will be removing my steering wheel controls unit soon as well if you're looking for one.
2. Any headunit you find that has access to an app store or can run an app off of your phone will show you drivetrain data that you choose; Disclaimer you will need to find a bluetooth OBD II adapter and use an app like Torque to see and monitor stats. This is what you likely saw on other headunits.
3. Bose information I am short on as my car did not come with the BOSE system. Hopefully you can search around the forum as I know it has been done before.
4. This is not a complicated mod, or as complicated as you can make it out to be. Its no different than any other head unit swap. But you will need the Metra Kit for an S1, as all of the climate controls are managed through it with the extension harnesses.

spectre6000

I know I'm not the only person with this sort of question. There's not a ton on the forum, and it's mostly pretty dated. Hopefully the trolls Fickert refers to stay away.

1) Are you referring to the bit of wiring harness that comes with the S1 kit?
2) That's good to know. That it's ubiquitous but not standard is probably why the references I've found have been a bit vague and confusing.
3) How similar is the S2 to S1 in this regard? Clearly they're different enough for there to be an S1 kit mentioned in 4, but I'm not completely sure what all is going on there. Jedi54 references an alternative device to retain functionality in a thread in the S1 section that made a cameo here in the S2 section recently, but it's not clear to me how applicable that information is.
4) You say "any other head unit swap" like it's something I've done. My '62 VW bus came with a metal plate over where the radio would have been from the factory, and nothing behind the grille where the single speaker would have gone. I installed a semi-modern radio in it. Later, I removed some loose wires and speaker enclosures from an '84 M1009 CUCV that a PO didn't deem worth recovering before selling the truck. That's my car audio resumé. I don't expect it to be complicated, but I've got to start somewhere. That I'm sure it's common, but this section of the forum isn't very deep suggests it can't be too hard, but there's a lot that's gone assumed and unsaid.

spectre6000

I'm on toddler duty this morning, and she decided to read ALL of her Dr. Seuss books one after another to herself, so I got a little time to bug someone at a car audio shop.

- Any head unit new enough to support wireless CarPlay will support the factory Bose setup. The key spec is having the requisite number (6) of plugs to support it.
- Retaining the balance of the factory features requires either a PAC RP4-MZ11 setup, or one of the Maestro RR/RR2 setups. The latter of which may not have wiring harnesses available for the RX-8, but their website specifically states compatibility.
- Getting drivetrain information via gauges on the head unit would require one of the Maestro setups to work. Since they weren't sure that it would be supported, no further information is currently available from me on that subject.
- All new head units require tapping into the parking brake wire due to some safety feature. Failing to do so results in a very expensive shiny black brick in your dash.

Laminar

Some Kenwood (and maybe other head units) have a Gauges app built in. Connect to OBD though some kind of data link device.

Laminar

The PAC is the one I have on my wish list, it seemed to have the broadest compatibility for maintaining steering wheel controls and the function of the factory radio display.

edit: Although now that I review the manual, it says that it can't provide a VSS or Reverse signal on the RX-8, which is obnoxious. Backup cam trigger from the box would be nice.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

There is no vehicle speed sensor on manual 8s, so no adapter will be able to do that. It's all had from the 4 wheel speed sensors and CANBUS. You might be able to fashion something for reverse off the reverse light wire, it's just not near the radio so extra cable hunting and sheath cutting needed.

spectre6000

@Laminar The thing that is required for the gauges is the Maestro (not the PAC) adapter. RR or RR2. I was told by the salesperson that they (that franchise) did not have anything listed as an adapter for it, so suggested it wasn't an option. @Jedi54 got it to work in his S1 (not sure about the gauges though), so there must at least be a workaround. Hopefully he chimes in and fills us in on the specifics of that particular facet of his setup. Obviously it works, were you able to use their (it reads like a universal) adapter? Does your head unit work with the gauge display through the RR2? I seem to recall you showing gauges in your thread (I could be mixing up threads in my head), but no discussion of how that came to be exactly.

@Loki @Laminar The reverse signal is for backup cameras. I don't feel like visibility in the RX-8 is such that one is required, nor do I want to go cutting and hacking or adding warts to my car. I haven't dug into that facet of car audio, and it's possible there exists a backup camera that doesn't suck in such a manner, so if there's a good option, I'd probably still be interested in hearing about it. That said, wire taps exist and are not difficult to install. Ditto the parking brake safety lockout wire that's mandated now.

As for VSS, confession, the EE in me read that as a voltage source... I said I'm new to car audio, didn't I? From what I can gather, that would probably be required for if the head unit had its own built in navigation system. Given the state of existence of built in navigation in cars in light of the low cost, ubiquity, ease of use, and technical and data superiority of phone navigation combined with whole point of this being to get wireless CarPlay, I think I'm pretty OK with that signal not being available, and would go out of my way to not pay the premium for a head unit that was so much as looking for such a signal. Or I could be making a bad assumption, and it could be for something else... The intent of this thread is not for me to educate, but be educated, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

spectre6000

Here is my bookmark folder so far on the subject:

A search on Crutchfield for head units that (I think) meet my criteria. I have zero knowledge of the landscape, and this seems as good a place to start as any. Plus, they have the ability to drill down the search by specific features:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-hww7FE...iDatalink_Port

The iDatalink Maestro RR and RR2 interfaces between the head unit and the vehicle hardware (steering wheel controls, etc.). The difference seems to be that one has bluetooth. I'm not sure that's necessary, as it seems to be used for set up and possibly requires downloading an app (that will cease to be available in a few years, and then you're screwed when you inevitably get a new phone and eventually need to tweak something). I haven't dug much deeper than that yet.
RR:
https://www.idatalinkmaestro.com/en/products/maestro-rr
RR2:
https://www.idatalinkmaestro.com/en/...ts/maestro-rr2

This is the wiring harness that iDatalink says is required to make it work, but the salesperson was unaware of that for some reason. May just not be in their computer system or something...:
https://www.idatalinkmaestro.com/en/...272/HRN-RR-SA1

In the event the iDataLink setup is a no-go, here's the alternative for maintaining steering wheel controls, etc. but without access to the gauges:
https://catalog.pac-audio.com/catalo...ement/rp4-mz11

'Sall I got so far. Time for these sorts of projects is an ultra premium these days, and I just got my car Monday night, so I'm still hammering out some of the more pressing issues like ignition systems and such. I'd love to hear any thoughts or opinions on the 8(?) head units in the Crutchfield link. The entirety of my knowledge on the subject so far has been laid out so far in this thread.

Laminar

I haven't started on the car audio yet, gotta get an engine in there and running first. I won't be using any gauge features since I have an aftermarket ECU with its own visualization software. I just want CarPlay and a working factory display. And a backup cam.

spectre6000

I'm pretty much in the same place. Just learning.

Is there a way to make CarPlay work on the factory display?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Never fear, Jedi is here.
Headunits: fortunately these days there are now lots of headunits being produced that offer wireless carplay / andriod auto. When I did my upgrade a year or so ago inventory was ridiculously low because the semi conductor shortage was at it's peak so I did a wired android auto.
Pioneer has great units.

Unfortunately as mentioned, when it comes to finding a way to mount a double din in our vehicle, it's not really a choice as it is a lack of options. In other words: Metra is really the only name in the game. I recommend the gloss black, it looks better than the matte finish as that one sometimes doesn't match the interior at all. The gloss is closer to Mazda's finish.
As for S1 vs S2 Metra, can't say I am too familiar with that but you definitely need the wiring harness to retain AC and display. I have the metra install guides I can upload if you want that show which of the wires from the universal harness are required for the RX-8. (spoiler alert, not many of them)

Gauges: I didn't want to have to run a bluetooth OBD device so one of the reasons I went with the Maestro RR2 was being able to tap the can wires at the obd in order to send that signal to the headunit which natively obd information gauges. I liked the RR2 because I could reprogram the Steering wheel buttons without having to pull the module out since it is all bluetooth. Yes is there a concern that in a couple of year the support might be dropped, sure but I figure by then I will have configured the buttons the way I want I've saved that config file.

Saw a mention of reverse camera: yeah you'll need to tap the reverse light and send that back to the head unit but as long as the unit supports it, shouldn't be too difficult to do.

spectre6000

@Jedi54 , I was under the impression that the RR2, etc. eliminated the need for the Metra harness. Is that not the case?

Also, echoing the question from the other thread re: Maestro harness working with the RR2.

Finally, yes, please on the install guide upload.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

No they work in conjunction.
The RR2 is going to plug into different spots than the Metra
https://images.idatalink.com/corpora...N_20201104.pdf (pg 77)

Let me know if I'm not answering the question fully. My apologies, I'm fighting a miserable headache so trying to keep posts short but am always happy to try and help

spectre6000

@Jedi54 , Did you need this:
https://www.idatalinkmaestro.com/en/...272/HRN-RR-SA1 ?

Or maybe a better way of saying it would be, did it work? The salesperson told me explicitly that they do not offer a harness for the RX-8. iDatalink says that's the harness for the RX-8, but they have it couched a near universal solution. As someone who has successfully installed and used an RR2, who is correct and what are the details that make them so?

Reading through the Metra install guide, on page 5 it references parking brake, reverse, and "speed sense" connections. Does this make up for the otherwise missing connections? Are we sure this translates to S2? Short of going through the entire install and related expense, is there an easy way to know?

spectre6000

@Jedi54 bump. About to start ordering parts, and want to make sure I have everything and I'm not missing anything. You seem to be about the only person that's done this.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

spectre: Nope, didn't use the rsa1.
I used the Maestro RR2. (normal RR would also work)
If you're looking for steering wheel controls, the RR is probably the better choice

spectre6000

Does that mean the RR2 doesn't support steering wheel controls?

MincVinyl

If you want to keep it stock you could get something like the GTA car kit. It just allows your phone to bluetooth to the stock headunit, retaining steering controls. It also has a mic for calls and steering controls work for picking up and hanging up. Install instructions are fairly straight forward with a vid on their site. For Nav you would need to get a phone holder though.
-downside is with some android phones and apps like spotify the audio can mess up and not play. (This is more of an android issue than this kit as the same issue happens on my 2022 miata bluetooth or android auto. I have also seen this with multiple different phones and cars.)

A little overboard, but I'm planning on keeping a "stock" looking dash and making my own popup head unit using a Rasberry Pi kit. Similar to the vid below. Since the rx8 popup nav has a 7in screen, the RasPI 7in touchscreen fits pretty nice. My setup would use one of the gta car kits to connect back to the car's head unit.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

RR and RR2 will both do steering wheel control. I opted for the 2 to have the bluetooth programming capability

spectre6000

So if the goal is:

A) New head unit (w/ wireless CarPlay)
B) Retain factory steering wheel controls and information display
C) Get some extra engine data

I need the following:

A) Wireless CarPlay capable head unit
B) Metra trim kit for Series 2
C) RR or RR2 depending on how I feel about bluetooth
D) The wiring harness for the above from iDatalink
E) One banana

Correct?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

spectre: yup.
The Metra kit uses a harness to connect things but that's pretty easy and is covered in their installation manual. If I remember correctly they also have a SW control module but the Maestro IMO was worth the extra few dollars since my headunit was compatible and could display the gauges on screen.

you'll want at least 2 bananas and lots of beer on standby for afterwards.

spectre6000

2 bananas you say? Hmm... I figured all the bananas in this project were stacked up front figuring out how the car audio ecosystem is arranged. I'll put a second in my other holster.

(Edit: Maybe we should sync bananas... Why two?)

The Series 2 Metra kit doesn't have any harnesses... Just the trim and bracketry. That is a point of confusion I thought I had worked out. Someone said here or elsewhere that I actually have to get both the Series 1 AND Series 2 kits because I need that bit of harness. Yours is a Series 1, correct?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

I keep forgetting yours is a series 2.
correct, mine is Series 1. This is the metra kit I purchased https://www.crutchfield.com/p_120957...oss-Black.html