Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I'm glad I added the "to someone who knows what they are doing " bit ....

This is the problem with most tuning shops .... they are f**ked when it comes to dealing with maf/flash tuning .
They only understand map tuning.

If the owner had taken the time to read up on what us S1 owners already know about how to get a turbo 8 to run right , he would have a sweet running turbo s2 by now at a fraction of the cost of what he has probably spent.

Roen

Ha......I'm not sure if this is your impression, but if you think the S2 ECU is anything like the S1 ECU, that's where you're mistaken. The amount of redundant maps present that don't actually do anything is the problem. Add in the 100 Flash Limit and you find yourself with a dead box very quickly. The guys in Texas, they probably thought they knew what they were doing as well, but they probably were changing a map in the box that didn't actually do anything. Why do you think paimon or whoever it was kept getting an ECU back that effectively didn't have any settings changed. Cobb never even bothered, which was probably a good decision on his end.

Is there anyone who knows what he's doing with the S2 box? AFAIK, the Aussies and Speed1 are the two furthest along. I don't know what the PR dude with the Sprint RE is doing though.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I know it will work because :

*Guys on this forum have already been experimenting with it .
*I have a S2 map here in front of me ..... some differences but basically the same .
*I have tuned multiple 8s and know how to do it .
*The 100 flash thing is fixed .... guess who the first person to discover it was a problem and get it resolved (and verified) was?


It's exactly the same story we S1 owners went through at the beginning .Did you know that we went through multiple ECU solutions before we found something that actually did the job ? A lot of (not all) S2 guys just don't understand that we have been through all this . We did the hard yards 10 years ago ..... the S2 guys you are talking about are just making the same mistakes we did back then.

Roen

The owner's been on these forums and read everything you have regarding the S1 and the S2 boxes. He does his research. You've probably spoken to him many times. He told me you were the one to discover it anyway a couple of months ago or whenever you broke the news.

FYI, Many S1 Turbos have successfully been completed @ Speed1, it's not exactly a hard thing to do.

Trust me, unless you have the practical experience reflashing these boxes, it's not as easy as you think it is. I'm talking about all the trial and error specific to the S2 boxes.

The 100 Flash limit wasn't resolved on his original box even with your solution. He had to get a new one and get it recoded.

The moral of the story sounds the same, but the difficulty has increased exponentially than from what you guys had went through with the S1 box.

Brettus, if you could get your hands dirty with the S2 box and actually try to tune it for a turbo, you would appreciate the level of difficulty that I am referring to. Heck, it would be nice to have some of the S1 guys come in and help out, we would get to a solution that much quicker.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have been through this trial and error stuff you are talking about .... you would be surprised what differences there are with different model S1 8s . Plus we are still arguing about how certain maps work 10 years on .
Re : turboing a 8 not being hard .......... tell that to all the guys who blew their engines in the early days . These days ..... it isn't .

But I guess you are right in that I have not tried to do this on an S2 yet so I can't be 100% sure until I do.
My guess is that the guys that have tried so far don't really have an intimate knowledge of the S1 maps so when it comes to the S2 they are just taking a stab in the dark.

Roen

The only thing I can say to those guys that blew the engines is: At least they got to that stage!

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

As far as getting a solution for S2 turbos goes . Till we get guys willing to recount their experiences we can't help them ......................

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

There is no reason the turbo oil or coolant lines would be any different on an S2 versus an S1. I have an R3 in the drive way that has been gone thru completely so we are well aware of the differences between the series. The only difference would be the drain line do to the S2 Oil pan setup and the manifold may have some fitment issues depending on how Elliot did this kit.

The Turblown low mount kit can be made to work (we did it) with substantial additional fabrication and tweaks done. But not as shipped or as advertised and that is my point.

Roen

Agreed, modifications were needed, whether I (or the owner) consider them substantial is another story.

But yes, the kit is not a simple buy and drop in. That doesn't mean Dave doesn't recommend it though.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Just started working with a guy with a 2010 s2 on an NA tune ............... I should be able to determine what the differences are through doing this .

Roen

Whoo-hoo!

Though tuning the NA will be infinitely easier, since the MAF will still be in the stock location. Once you move the MAF for the turbo.....**** hits the fan.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Same for the S1 .
Dealing with that is more about the design than the tune .

Roen

Not in the same way you're thinking. You'll see what I mean when you get to it.

yomomspimp06

This statement has my interest. What could be changed that much on the s2 to make it a big headache? I'm with "Brett Speed Tuning"(lol) on this one. Doesn't seem like anything too different here should be going on in Theory from S1 to S2...

Roen

Sensor Refresh Rate?

yomomspimp06

I fail to see how that would change anything? If it was increased I can only see good things from that change...Care to elaborate? or were you just taking a guess at some of the changes in the S2?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

The maf table is exactly the same between s1 and s2 . So .............. safe bet that the way
the maf operates is identical .
So my pick is ................ any issues they were having with the maf ,that were not resolved, were nothing to do with whether it was an s1 or an s2 .

Roen

You would think so, wouldn't you?

Like I said, it looked very doable we when first started off on this too. When you actually get down to it, is when you'll start seeing all the problems we saw.

All this speculation you are doing now, we did at first. So we know the value of such speculation.

When you get to trying to do a turbo S2, let me know, I'll be glad to share what I've learned over the project.

Right now, I can only, with a sense of smugness, look on and think "Once he hits his first stumbling block, even with the NA car, he'll understand."

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You don't make any sense. Like I said, the oil lines and water lines are a non issue with the turbo in that kit, there is no reason to change that turbo from an installation aspect.

And why don't you get into specifics? Why don't you tell us why the tuning won't work specifically? Oh wait, I know, because you don't know and you are just repeating what you heard or were told.

Roen

Because it's not up to me to share specifics about someone else's project without their permission.

I will say this though. We couldn't fit the turbo so we had to switch to another type of turbo that would fit.

If you truly think they're a non-issue and you've been to Dave's, I invite you to go there and talk to him specifically about that part of the project.

Then again, you're going by your experience on an S1 vs my experience on an S2. I wonder whose experience is more relevant to this discussion.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

What a crock of ****.

Roen

How bout laying off the insults there, pal.

If you don't want to take my word for it, why don't you email Dave directly? I'm sure he won't go into specifics but he'll probably answer this question.

"Based on your experience with the Turblown kit on an S2, what difficulties have you found regarding the figment and installation of the stock turbo that Elliot includes in the kit?"
If you hear from him directly, at least you can't accuse me of perverting the reply. All it takes is a simple copy and paste to Dave's email address.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You chimed in here making statements and now you want me to contact someone else to get details? If you don't know, or can't say, then you should STFU about it rather than make statements here that you can't support. I don't need to call Dave, you made the statements, I want to see you back them up. How about this, why don't you have Dave come here and back up your statements and give us details?

Roen

Because then you could accuse me of misrepresenting the facts. So why would I bother to back it up when I didn't personally do the build. Wouldn't it be better for you to hear it from the horse's mouth directly? How hard is it to send an email anyway? Takes 2 seconds last I checked. I was even nice enough to write it for you. All you have to do is copy and paste. I'll let you get the email address on your own though, that way you can't accuse me of given you a fake contact.

What's more important to you, proving me wrong or finding out the truth for yourself on S2's. If it's the former, then I can no longer take your statements with any credibility. If it's the latter, send email is only a click away.

And if u know Dave, u know he doesn't do forums anymore. Too much internet bs to deal with.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah forums are tough because people can call you out on your bullshit.